Should they stay or should they go?

[Lancasterclaret]

I think its worth mentioning so everyone calms down a bit that the bottom three teams in the prem are full of really good players

Its a huge step up and we have to bear that in mind

[criminalclaret]

As Wout is contracted to Burnley for another 2? seasons he will have to return to Burnley whether anyone likes it or not unless a deal is done with Man U which is reported as unlikely

I meant whether he see's him as part of the team going forward or if we have a Gibson situation on our hands where he just sits on the bench / wait for a loan for the next 2 years until we get rid.

[Foshiznik]

It’s really not - we’ve just walked the league and clearly have some very good players.

We’re not looking to compete for the title are we, think we need to be real for a moment.

Like I said, I think people are looking at last summer and presuming we will have a huge overhaul again which I don’t believe will happen.

Talk of Klopp not being ruthless enough - he’s just shown that if you stick with a proven manager they will eventually get it right, he’s slowly rejuvenating that squad and comparatively for their budget does well.

He’s only a point off top 4 - not bad for a ‘bad season’

Behind a very poor Man Utd and an overachieving Newcastle having played a game more though.

[CoolClaret]

Behind a very poor Man Utd and an overachieving Newcastle having played a game more though.

Not to detail the thread too much but just after the Xmas or so United fans were looking for a top 2/3 finish they were absolutely flying!

My overriding point is that we shouldn’t get too carried away and remain grounded, we have some good players, a great manager & back room staff but it will be difficult.

A few key additions in areas will serve us well, not throwing another 10+ players in

[It Is What It Is]

Wout Weghorst???
Quite a lengthy post and input here but there doesn't appear that anybody has mentioned him at all!!
He is a Burnley player under contract after all.
What would you do with him.??

[quoonbeatz]

I'm not expecting a lot of incoming nor outgoings. The PL is a big step up but this is a young squad who have just proven they're too good for the championship. This season will count for a lot; everyone is bedded in, knows how we play and what is expected of them. That is more valuable than who we sign. There's a fearlessness in what we do so for me it's just adding a bit of beef in CM and, if possible, PL experience to the group. Maybe another forward if we're greedy.

[Foshiznik]

I'd like a younger version of Cork, a left back, left winger and striker. That's assuming the loanees return on permanent or further loans btw.

[trawlen]

I'm not expecting a lot of incoming nor outgoings. The PL is a big step up but this is a young squad who have just proven they're too good for the championship. This season will count for a lot; everyone is bedded in, knows how we play and what is expected of them. That is more valuable than who we sign. There's a fearlessness in what we do so for me it's just adding a bit of beef in CM and, if possible, PL experience to the group. Maybe another forward if we're greedy.

We need to replace the loan outgoings at a minimum, and Churlinov is leaving so there has to be a decent amount regardless of it we wanted to or not.

- Tella
- Beyer
- Maatsen
- THB
- Barnes

All regular starters / important players some of who we won't be able to buy

[Silkyskills1]

I'm not expecting a lot of incoming nor outgoings..

I am. We've achieved promotion much earlier than was anticipated. The squad was assembled for a two/ three year stay in the Championship. What we have achieved has been remarkable but it would be folly and naive not to make significant alterations for a much more difficult season ahead. I would consider at least six new additions to the squad and they must be players ready and able to slot straight into any starting line up.

[CrosspoolClarets]

It’s really not - we’ve just walked the league and clearly have some very good players.

We’re not looking to compete for the title are we, think we need to be real for a moment.

Like I said, I think people are looking at last summer and presuming we will have a huge overhaul again which I don’t believe will happen.

Talk of Klopp not being ruthless enough - he’s just shown that if you stick with a proven manager they will eventually get it right, he’s slowly rejuvenating that squad and comparatively for their budget does well.

He’s only a point off top 4 - not bad for a ‘bad season’

Not disagreeing with that and not saying ours aren’t good enough (incl the loans) but when I say I expect strengthening in most areas that is because of injury, form or suddenly finding their level. There is obviously a risk that even our POTY Cullen will struggle in the PL given he hasn’t broken through yet at 27. It is tougher than most RoI games. The same applies to others. There are positions where if we get a long term injury we are suddenly substandard at that level with what replaces them (Muric, Cullen, Roberts).

So I think we will keep the ones I outlined in my post you replied to but I’m expecting about 7 additions with most being better than what we have now.

[quoonbeatz]

I was including the loans because I'd put money on at least 2, more likely at least 3, of them being here next season. Depends what you mean by a lot, I guess. Won't be anything like last season that's for sure.

[quoonbeatz]

I am. We've achieved promotion much earlier than was anticipated. The squad was assembled for a two/ three year stay in the Championship. What we have achieved has been remarkable but it would be folly and naive not to make significant alterations for a much more difficult season ahead. I would consider at least six new additions to the squad and they must be players ready and able to slot straight into any starting line up.

Six new additions isn't a lot

[Newcastleclaret93]

Not disagreeing with that and not saying ours aren’t good enough (incl the loans) but when I say I expect strengthening in most areas that is because of injury, form or suddenly finding their level. There is obviously a risk that even our POTY Cullen will struggle in the PL given he hasn’t broken through yet at 27. It is tougher than most RoI games. The same applies to others. There are positions where if we get a long term injury we are suddenly substandard at that level with what replaces them (Muric, Cullen, Roberts).

So I think we will keep the ones I outlined in my post you replied to but I’m expecting about 7 additions with most being better than what we have now.

I’m expecting 7-8 players in and approx 60m getting spent.

I can’t really see how this squad survives without it.

[CoolClaret]

Not disagreeing with that and not saying ours aren’t good enough (incl the loans) but when I say I expect strengthening in most areas that is because of injury, form or suddenly finding their level. There is obviously a risk that even our POTY Cullen will struggle in the PL given he hasn’t broken through yet at 27. It is tougher than most RoI games. The same applies to others. There are positions where if we get a long term injury we are suddenly substandard at that level with what replaces them (Muric, Cullen, Roberts).

So I think we will keep the ones I outlined in my post you replied to but I’m expecting about 7 additions with most being better than what we have now.

Some players bloom a bit later than others! Cullen will be absolutely fine - no problem there whatsoever.

Hard to find 7 'better' players - as long as we have depth with no obvious downgrades anywhere we will be just fine.

7 additions in terms of resigning/replacing some/all of the four we had on loan & three more would be fair yeah

For players like BPF - no point in selling imo, he's a good backup, it's just wasting the kitty when we have other priorities

[123EasyasBFC]

Your not living in reality if you think Southampton will let him go for 15m

All about opinion isn’t it, there’s no way they get £25m for him

[CoolClaret]

I am. We've achieved promotion much earlier than was anticipated. The squad was assembled for a two/ three year stay in the Championship. What we have achieved has been remarkable but it would be folly and naive not to make significant alterations for a much more difficult season ahead. I would consider at least six new additions to the squad and they must be players ready and able to slot straight into any starting line up.

You could also argue that the squad is better than first initially anticipated?

It's a farcry from the season we went up under Coyle/Dyche 1st time and both of those times we nearly stayed up. Key additions and we will be laughing

[LowtonClaret]

I dont see any mention of Wout. Don't rule out the possibility of him returning! Not that I'm advocating it.

[criminalclaret]

I dont see any mention of Wout. Don't rule out the possibility of him returning! Not that I'm advocating it.

He's been mentioned by myself and others, just not in the OP.

It'd be interested to see how he fits in with Vinny's plans if he is still here by end of June.

[Vegas Claret]

All about opinion isn’t it, there’s no way they get £25m for him

when you think Brentford paid a reported 16 for Keane Lewis Potter I agree there is no way Saints get 25

[Vegas Claret]

That suggests it’s his decision, which it isn’t. I love Jack Cork but a 25 man squad needs 25 players who can start and finish games, there’s very little room for bit part players, which he has been this season.

don't forget we can have 9 on the bench next season. Experience goes a long way

[Newcastleclaret93]

when you think Brentford paid a reported 16 for Keane Lewis Potter I agree there is no way Saints get 25

It’s all about circumstance. Hull needed the money and had no prospects of anything.

Southampton don’t need the money and will be pushing for automatic promotion next season. That automatically pushes the price up.

[Jacko]

That suggests it’s his decision, which it isn’t. I love Jack Cork but a 25 man squad needs 25 players who can start and finish games, there’s very little room for bit part players, which he has been this season.

Cork is our captain & has played 39 times this season! That's more (I think) than any season since he signed. Whatever your view on him - and for what it's worth I think he's still exceptional - that is not a 'bit part'.

[Vegas Claret]

It’s all about circumstance. Hull needed the money and had no prospects of anything.

Southampton don’t need the money and will be pushing for automatic promotion next season. That automatically pushes the price up.

Just a reminder, Southampton's manager (and thus the club) proclaimed in December or January that they wouldn't recall him in January because he was unproven in the PL and they already had players like him that weren't doing the business. They can want all they want but they won't get anything like 25 for him, he may be forced to stay there

[Newcastleclaret93]

Just a reminder, Southampton's manager (and thus the club) proclaimed in December or January that they wouldn't recall him in January because he was unproven in the PL and they already had players like him that weren't doing the business. They can want all they want but they won't get anything like 25 for him, he may be forced to stay there

I suspect that will be the case. It’s a win win for Southampton they either get the excessive fee they want or he stays and gives them a proven goal scorer at championship level.

[Vegas Claret]

I suspect that will be the case. It’s a win win for Southampton they either get the excessive fee they want or he stays and gives them a proven goal scorer at championship level.

or a one season wonder in an unbelievably good side for the level.

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s all about circumstance. Hull needed the money and had no prospects of anything.

Southampton don’t need the money and will be pushing for automatic promotion next season. That automatically pushes the price up.

Southampton could well need the money when you think of the signings they made in Jan, won’t be on cheap wages, did they not spend about 40-50mil in Jan

[Silkyskills1]

Six new additions isn't a lot

That's okay then. I'd overlooked that there are nine subs available next season so taking that into account maybe six is a bit conservative. We're gonna need a bigger dugout.

[123EasyasBFC]

I suspect that will be the case. It’s a win win for Southampton they either get the excessive fee they want or he stays and gives them a proven goal scorer at championship level.

It’s not just a cause of Southampton getting a fee they won’t, tella probs isn’t sort of player to down tools but all about player power now, he could force the move

[warksclaret]

Its nice VK has given a number of players game time and a chance to show what they are capable of. As a result the decision of who goes is made easier. For me I feel the following

PLAYERS WHO CAN LEAVE/GO OUT ON LOAN
Peacock Farrell-sell
Egan Riley-further loan
Bastian-put on loan or sell
Cork-sell if we get interest.Played less and less to suggest he is not key to next year
Rodriguez-as per Cork, sell if poss otherwise loan

CURRENT LOANS
Maatsen-try to buy, if Chelsea have their much needed clear out, but set a ceiling, as he does have flaws that will get exploited in his defensive game, or use as a flank player where Burnley will inevitably go to a back three in some games
Dervisoglu-return to Brentford
THB-try to buy, he is good enough, but another loan for him would use one of the two UK loan slots
Tella-try to buy, up to £15m
Beyer-pay the Bour. Munch. asking price, as he is worth it based on what we paid for Gibson or Collins
Obefami-agreement already there, and he will be a good impact player for the PL

EXISTING PLAYERS TO KEEP
Muric
Roberts
Taylor-great cover in defence and we know he can handle the PL, possibly better than Maatsen
Al Dakhill
Ekdal
Vitinho-good squad player owing to his versatility
Brownhill
JBG-a good squad player, not necessarily starting every game
Zarourry-needs competition
Benson
Foster-depending on how successful we are in the striker market, and in how he does in pre-season, be prepared to loan to a strong Championship side until Jan window
Twine-will be a good squad player, and free kick specialist

POSITIONS TO BUY
A new goal keeper to act as competition for Muric
Buying THB and Beyer gives us 4 good centre-halves with Charlie as further cover, but if we do not get both Beyer and THB bring in a physical centre half
A RB to cover for Roberts
LB -if we get Maatsen then Charlie and him good for this position, if not bring in a LB
CM-we need to get two in to support Cullen.The most important position to strengthen, that way we can use Brownhill and sometimes Twine as more forward midfielders
A new left winger to challenge Zarourry
Two new central strikers , with good goal scoring records

That makes 8/9 new players, but we should exploit the two British loan facility, and see if we can loan from abroad as well which will be over and above the normal loan quota

[CoolClaret]

If Southampton had any sense they'd get business done early and have a settled squad ready to have another crack at it

The last thing you want to do is hold onto players all summer being stubborn and then losing out on deadline day with rushed replacements.

It's become one of my pet peeves clubs holding on to players really - especially when it's stopping the players' ambition - see Donkey Diaz for a prime example

Tella is clearly settled here and valued - it's just a good fit all around.

I can't stress the importance of having your targets in early - it really does make all the difference!

[123EasyasBFC]

THB instagram post reads like he is leaving

[Newcastleclaret93]

Southampton could well need the money when you think of the signings they made in Jan, won’t be on cheap wages, did they not spend about 40-50mil in Jan

They have a lot of sellable assets that will go way before tella does that could recover them close to 100m.

Lavia, the Cb and Prowse could bring in close to that figure alone.

[123EasyasBFC]

They have a lot of sellable assets that will go way before tella does that could recover them close to 100m.

Lavia, the Cb and Prowse could bring in close to that figure alone.

Yeah they do but they would need to re invest that money still.

Who knows it’s all hearsay I just personally don’t see saints getting 25m for Tella and if the player wants to leave better to compromise instead of keeping a potential unhappy player

[Duffer_]

THB instagram post reads like he is leaving

Screenshot_20230510-145913_Chrome.jpg (337.92 KiB) Viewed 1939 times

[warksclaret]

THB instagram post reads like he is leaving

Would be a shame, but best to know early on. Suspect he will go out on loan to a PL club,maybe one just promoted, but maybe get less game time than us

[quoonbeatz]

That's okay then. I'd overlooked that there are nine subs available next season so taking that into account maybe six is a bit conservative. We're gonna need a bigger dugout.

Yeah good point, so had I!

Having good bench options has obviously been good for us this season, although it's not been particularly helpful when we've used all our subs in a game, there's usually too much rhythm lost makes it more like a friendly. That's another debate though.

[trawlen]

Chris Wood was an established Premier League striker and he went for close to £30m and we thought we robbed them..

£25m for Tella is excessive, and maybe player values have changed but I would put him at maximum £15m because he's not proven in the Premier League.

I'll be sad to see him and THB go but I think they are both out of our reach unless they engineer a move themselves and want to leave.

[Duffer_]

IF it is to be the end of THB's time with us then I am surprised, particularly for it to be called so soon with relegation places and possible loan destinations yet to be decided. We seem to be the perfect place for THB to continue his footballing education. Unless, it is VK's decision, and/or Man City are selling and have given us an indication of price.

I rate Beyer, Ekdal and Al-Dakhil very highly but I feel a bit nervous about losing any of the players that have contributed so much to this season. It is easy to forget how young THB is in CB terms and hard to accurately measure the impact of his (undoubted) leadership qualities from afar. Still, that's VK's job and he's doing it pretty well.

If he is going then I will watch his career with interest and wish him every success in it.

[123EasyasBFC]

Potentially pep might see THB as featuring in first team squad and help with their home grown players

[Duffer_]

Potentially pep might see THB as featuring in first team squad and help with their home grown players

I think that is the least likely of the scenarios discussed. He is a way off that level just now and regular PL game time will help him with the development.

[123EasyasBFC]

I think that is the least likely of the scenarios discussed. He is a way off that level just now and regular PL game time will help him with the development.

You have to have have to have 5 players trained at your club between ages of 18-21 in your champs league squad each season and City might think they need him in, they could cash in on someone like Laporte

[Iloveyoubrady]

Muric Stay
BPF stay/replace
Franchi Loan-out/U21
Norris Leave

Roberts Stay
Vitinho Stay
Maatsen Sign
Taylor replace
Lowton replace
CJER Loan-out

THB resign/loan
Beyer Sign
Ekdal Stay
Al-Dakhil Stay
McNally Loan-out

Cullen Stay
Cork Stay
Brownhill Stay
JBG Stay
Bastien stay

Twine Stay/loan (depending on budget)
Zaroury Stay
Benson Stay
Tella Sign
Costelloe Loan-out
Churlinov loan out

Obafemi Stay
Foster Stay
Barnes Leave
JRod Stay
Dervişoğlu Leave

So in terms of what we will need, probably a right back, a left back, a centre midfielder, a winger and 1 or 2 strikers.

A centre midfielder and striker being the two most important areas to improve - that’s where I expect the marquee signings to be.

[boatshed bill]

IF it is to be the end of THB's time with us then I am surprised, particularly for it to be called so soon with relegation places and possible loan destinations yet to be decided. We seem to be the perfect place for THB to continue his footballing education. Unless, it is VK's decision, and/or Man City are selling and have given us an indication of price.

I rate Beyer, Ekdal and Al-Dakhil very highly but I feel a bit nervous about losing any of the players that have contributed so much to this season. It is easy to forget how young THB is in CB terms and hard to accurately measure the impact of his (undoubted) leadership qualities from afar. Still, that's VK's job and he's doing it pretty well.

If he is going then I will watch his career with interest and wish him every success in it.

McNally can't be that far behind, he's done very well at Coventry.

[CoolClaret]

where Burnley will inevitably go to a back three in some games

What makes you say stuff like this?

No evidence we will do that what so ever

[AshevilleNCClaret]

McNally can't be that far behind, he's done very well at Coventry.

We probably went into the loan deal with THB knowing either City were not going to let him go and/or we couldn't afford him, which is why we went after Al-Dakhil and Edkal.

I don't think he is that far off from their squad. Ake/Laporte/Stones are all 28, which is not old, but certainly starting the tail end of their careers.
He's certainly talented enough and just needs more experience.

He'll probably get one more year on loan before he's in their squad.

[spt_claret]

Only going to focus on the loan players/names touted for departure:

THB- Controversial perhaps but for me it's a thanks, good effort, but goodbye.
If the Kalvin Philips loan rumours are true I'd far rather have him than THB and you can only have one loan from the same club but even then I'm not sure about Bellis.
He likes to try the Hollywood pass but Ekdal and Beyer are factually more accurate effective progressive passers (or were last I checked the stats)
Our defence was almost unbreachable with Ekdal/Beyer and started to have early season wobbles again when Bellis came back- there was talk we'd just needed time to settle as a team and when he returned he'd improve us but personally I didn't see it.
Everyone harps on Ekdals lack of pace but he's not really any slower than Bellis, or at the least has been able to make up for it with his defensive nous. And Mee is proving still at Brentford than pace isn't everything in a defender. I really think Ekdal is the glue that can knit us together in our half, even if he only played 9 games.

Dakhil is quick and is slightly younger.
Beyer isn't much older.
Ekdal is still young in CB terms at 24.
McNally isn't done much older and has done superb at Coventry, enough to earn a chance to prove himself.
THB flatters to deceive a little for me, City/English youngster effect, I genuinely don't think he's a part of our best defensive unit even in a back 3. If we go back 3 I'd take Ekdal/Dakhil/Beyer.
Nothing against THB and he's been a decent servant this season but I'd put every permanent ahead of him except possibly McNally.

Maatsen I have doubts about his defensive ability in the PL, which WILL be a factor for us next season as we will not have the same sustained possession, time on the ball, or ability to break down a lot of teams. Big quality leap up. However if we play a back 3, I could see him working as a wingback with the extra cover.

Tella I see ending up as a striker in the long run, he's struggled in the Prem previously but has been so lethal for us that I'd happily take the chance and keep him.

Dervisoglu looked tidy in his cameos to me but if he didn't impress VK I won't pretend that I think we should loan him back again.

I'm probably the only Burnley fan who still sees a potential player in Bastien, can't shake the feeling that in a midfield 3 in a box to box role, or in a sort of Fred type role, he could click. But despite that I wouldn't be heartbroken to move him on if it frees up funds. Likewise Churlinov who hasn't had much time.

Similarly I'm in the minority who would keep Weghorst. He'd play the Jay/Barnes role in this system but better and assuming the team would take him back so would I. He's a good player no matter how his last 16 months at club level have been. But I don't see it happening and if the money for him lets us get in a quality striker or midfielder then I'll trust VK to work another transfer blinder.

BPF I think is a solid keeper but possibly not what we need in the Prem.
Cork great servant but too slow for the Championship now. Sadly time to move on.
Jay...don't see him firing in the Prem. Would personally move him on to free up wages but I suspect he'll stay as a backup.
Taylor is proven in the Prem albeit as a more defensive left back. I'd keep him and play him left back for games we expect to be up against it more if we're going 2 centrebacks. One of the few PL multi-season players we have left who is still a decent age.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Playing devils advocate, perhaps VK feels the one loan from Man City is best used on someone else.

I notice Cole Palmer has struggled to break through and Mcattee has been linked this summer.

Maybe he’s looking to strengthen a different position first.

[123EasyasBFC]

One thing we can do on this thread is..

BEYER

[quoonbeatz]

I was including the loans because I'd put money on at least 2, more likely at least 3, of them being here next season.

One down.

[Vegas Claret]

Playing devils advocate, perhaps VK feels the one loan from Man City is best used on someone else.

I notice Cole Palmer has struggled to break through and Mcattee has been linked this summer.

Maybe he’s looking to strengthen a different position first.

my mum's neighbour's dog told me we are getting KDB