Head of Academy Role

[Denno97]

Seen on TGG that the club are advertising a new Head of Academy. Is this to replace Paul Jenkins or has he moved to a different role in the club

[123EasyasBFC]

Paul Jenkins was academy director, isn’t the vacancy for an academy manager, potentially Simone working under Jenkins

[roperclaret]

Paul Jenkins was academy director, isn’t the vacancy for an academy manager, potentially Simone working under Jenkins

That’s quite a drop in stature for Simone

[Clive 1960]

Never been the same since Dean Ramsdale left to go to Man City and better things.

[taio]

Never been the same since Dean Ramsdale left to go to Man City and better things.

Think he left to go to Preston. And then he went to Sheff Wed before his time at City.

[ClaretTony]

Think he left to go to Preston. And then he went to Sheff Wed before his time at City.

That's spot on - Dean did leave for Preston before going to Sheff Wed and finally Man City. I think he was at Sheff Wed last time I spoke to him I think, he was telling me how good an academy coach Chris Waddle was.

[ClaretTony]

I think you might find that Paul Jenkins is being moved away from the academy which is why they are advertising the academy manager vacancy.

[123EasyasBFC]

I think you might find that Paul Jenkins is being moved away from the academy which is why they are advertising the academy manager vacancy.

Jenkins maybe going into DOF role with the senior team?

[Clive 1960]

That's spot on - Dean did leave for Preston before going to Sheff Wed and finally Man City. I think he was at Sheff Wed last time I spoke to him I think, he was telling me how good an academy coach Chris Waddle was.

Yes you are right he did go to pne after with nick and the last I heard if right he worked with Man academy and was posted in Dubai and had a job. Very happy for Dean as he took my Son on at the school of excellence and was our neighbour.

[ClaretTony]

Jenkins maybe going into DOF role with the senior team?

I think that might just be a good guess

[ClaretTony]

Yes you are right he did go to pne after with nick and the last I heard if right he worked with Man academy and was posted in Dubai and had a job. Very happy for Dean as he took my Son on at the school of excellence and was our neighbour.

Good lad is Dean

[clarethomer]

I think that might just be a good guess

Is that a good move in your opinion?

[123EasyasBFC]

Is that a good move in your opinion?

Jenkins had a good spell at Boro and was working alongside ALK when they took over Burnley so he must work similar to have the owners want to work

[ClaretTony]

Is that a good move in your opinion?

No idea but the academy has hardly gone forwards since he took over.

[Blondeclaret]

Academy definitely gone backwards, wasn’t Dean Ramsdale head of the community programme? Not Academy Manager,

[ClaretTony]

Academy definitely gone backwards, wasn’t Dean Ramsdale head of the community programme? Not Academy Manager,

He was and left the community to head the academy at Preston.

[123EasyasBFC]

Academy definitely gone backwards, wasn’t Dean Ramsdale head of the community programme? Not Academy Manager,

Has the academy gone backwards or just not moved forwards, people saying we lost the cat 1 but it was only a conditional cat 1 during covid

[helmclaret]

You can’t do everything all at once. VK and Alan will be all over this. All this ‘it’s gone backwards’ is pathetic.

[Nori1958]

Very few managers prioritise the academy, why would they as it's very doubtful they would ever benefit from the results, it needs to be people at the club other than the manager who push it.

[ClaretTony]

Has the academy gone backwards or just not moved forwards, people saying we lost the cat 1 but it was only a conditional cat 1 during covid

It has gone backwards. We were running a Cat 1 level academy in 2020, a full audit would have been passed.

[ClaretTony]

You can’t do everything all at once. VK and Alan will be all over this. All this ‘it’s gone backwards’ is pathetic.

Anything but pathetic

[taio]

You can’t do everything all at once. VK and Alan will be all over this. All this ‘it’s gone backwards’ is pathetic.

Not pathetic, just factual.

[beddie]

Talking of Dean I remember when we played PNE at theirs, Dean was already working for them at that time, he text me to say he’d been asked by the then Manager (think it was the sun bed man but not sure) to be part of his assistants team on the bench that day, he was sh- tting himself. As for Nick, great lad, very, very unlucky not to become a pro.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Suppose being category 1 isn’t really a priority for the club at the moment. Kompany being manager will surely be a big draw for any decent youngsters.

[taio]

Suppose being category 1 isn’t really a priority for the club at the moment. Kompany being manager will surely be a big draw for any decent youngsters.

It's about more than just attracting players.

[helmclaret]

New owners, the pandemic, new manager.

Give them a bloody chance.

[helmclaret]

Anything but pathetic

It’s the constant negativity towards it and sniping that is pathetic.

[Nori1958]

It has gone backwards. We were running a Cat 1 level academy in 2020, a full audit would have been passed.

So what changed from being confident of passing, to failing?

[ClaretTony]

It’s the constant negativity towards it and sniping that is pathetic.

No one is sniping, just pointing out that it’s gone in the wrong direction over the past two years which will hopefully be addressed with the new appointment.

[Clive 1960]

No one is sniping, just pointing out that it’s gone in the wrong direction over the past two years which will hopefully be addressed with the new appointment.

I hope so Tony because we really need to get up and coming talent coming through the academy.

[aggi]

It has gone backwards. We were running a Cat 1 level academy in 2020, a full audit would have been passed.

How do you know that so definitely?

Only 2 out of the 5 who got the temporary COVID status kept it with no issues. Added to that a different testing regime (not the company that Pepper worked for) and I'm surprised that anyone can know for certain.

Jenkins obviously came from a very good Category 1 academy at Boro but it wasn't really clear whether the intention was always that he'd end up running the academy at Burnley or it was just a temporary appointment.

[Nori1958]

How do you know that so definitely?

Only 2 out of the 5 who got the temporary COVID status kept it with no issues. Added to that a different testing regime (not the company that Pepper worked for) and I'm surprised that anyone can know for certain.

Jenkins obviously came from a very good Category 1 academy at Boro but it wasn't really clear whether the intention was always that he'd end up running the academy at Burnley or it was just a temporary appointment.

I asked a similar question earlier, but no reply as yet

[thehistorylecturer60]

Cat 1 status was always provisional - in much the same way as a driving licence is usually the starting point for a progression to a full licence - it was a starting point for a journey to Cat 1 that hasn’t for whatever reason been completed. We were never awarded full Cat 1 status - the incentive was there but the club declined to take it up.

[Cooclaret]

It’s the constant negativity towards it and sniping that is pathetic.

Same group of board members who were critical of Pace, and of the takeover, that now want to hit out at the club again over the Academy with backhand comments and snipes. Not just about Cat 1 but information about youth players contracts, injuries and so on.

This board is better for everyone when people recognise when to take a break from it, rather than letting it get on top of them and affecting their lives/wellbeing.

[Nori1958]

Same group of board members who were critical of Pace, and of the takeover, that now want to hit out at the club again over the Academy with backhand comments and snipes. Not just about Cat 1 but information about youth players contracts, injuries and so on.

This board is better for everyone when people recognise when to take a break from it, rather than letting it get on top of them and affecting their lives/wellbeing.

Anybody who lets a football message board get to them in that way is in need of help

[thehistorylecturer60]

https://trainingground.guru/articles/pr ... by-2024-25

Honestly don’t see a problem …

[Inchy]

I think VK is proving that an academy at a club like ours, surrounded by academy giants, is pretty pointless.

Better off buying young cheap players and selling them on later down the line.

The club haven’t produced a youth player at the standard we need since Jay Rod.

This season we could probably quadruple (if not much more) the money we spent on the signings if we sold them all this summer.

The academy doesn’t make much sense

[Swizzlestick]

Wasn’t it Brentford who just got rid of their academy? I think they’re in the process of reinstating one due to PL rules but yeah, there’s different schools of thought.

[aggi]

I think VK is proving that an academy at a club like ours, surrounded by academy giants, is pretty pointless.

Better off buying young cheap players and selling them on later down the line.

The club haven’t produced a youth player at the standard we need since Jay Rod.

This season we could probably quadruple (if not much more) the money we spent on the signings if we sold them all this summer.

The academy doesn’t make much sense

Getting first team players through is a bit of a bonus in many ways. Even the most successful academies don't tend to produce that many. If you can get a few reasonable players coming through that you can start to get some loan fees and the odd transfer fee then it should hopefully roughly cover itself whilst providing some competitive football for up and coming players (whether from the academy or ones we've signed), occasional fill-in players when needed and the possibility of an established player coming through.

[ClaretTony]

I think VK is proving that an academy at a club like ours, surrounded by academy giants, is pretty pointless.

Better off buying young cheap players and selling them on later down the line.

The club haven’t produced a youth player at the standard we need since Jay Rod.

This season we could probably quadruple (if not much more) the money we spent on the signings if we sold them all this summer.

The academy doesn’t make much sense

The academy makes a lot of sense in so many ways and it is refreshing to know that the ownership of the club are very much in favour of it. I don't know how much it costs to run but we've sold players in recent years which will considerably help with the running costs. There was a time when the youth department could boast to be the biggest profit making department in the club. Bringing Dwight McNeil, who you forgot, through and selling him gave the club a lot of first team games plus a lot of transfer money, similar to the sales of players such as Kyle Lafferty and Jay Rodriguez. You don't need to bring many through to make it valuable to us.

[Nori1958]

The academy makes a lot of sense in so many ways and it is refreshing to know that the ownership of the club are very much in favour of it. I don't know how much it costs to run but we've sold players in recent years which will considerably help with the running costs. There was a time when the youth department could boast to be the biggest profit making department in the club. Bringing Dwight McNeil, who you forgot, through and selling him gave the club a lot of first team games plus a lot of transfer money, similar to the sales of players such as Kyle Lafferty and Jay Rodriguez. You don't need to bring many through to make it valuable to us.

How old was McNeil when we brought him in?

[ClaretTony]

How old was McNeil when we brought him in?

Think he was 14 - played a couple of years in the junior teams and then became a scholar at 16 in 2016. His first year as a scholar coincided with Michael Duff becoming youth team coach. A year later, Duffo moved up to the U23s and took Dwight with him such was his progress. He flourished at U23 level and by the end of his second year had made a first team debut.

[Spike]

We need an Academy that produces results . It will not happen without an upgrade on what we have at present

[Nori1958]

Think he was 14 - played a couple of years in the junior teams and then became a scholar at 16 in 2016. His first year as a scholar coincided with Michael Duff becoming youth team coach. A year later, Duffo moved up to the U23s and took Dwight with him such was his progress. He flourished at U23 level and by the end of his second year had made a first team debut.

Thanks...I still think that's maybe the way forward, getting players at that age rather than 9..which I believe you have to do with cat 1....we've still managed to bring through the players you've mentioned without cat 1....and could continue to do so with the excellent facilities we now have, even at cat 2...but that's just my opinion without any background knowledge whatsoever

[ClaretTony]

Thanks...I still think that's maybe the way forward, getting players at that age rather than 9..which I believe you have to do with cat 1....we've still managed to bring through the players you've mentioned without cat 1....and could continue to do so with the excellent facilities we now have, even at cat 2...but that's just my opinion without any background knowledge whatsoever

Lots of advantages as you move up the categories, and to think we were close to losing it altogether just a few years ago when we failed the Cat 3 audit.

I think you should always be looking for players of all ages. We recruit for the under-21s and the under-18s too.

[FeedTheArf]

What are the benefits of being a Cat 1 as opposed to Cat 2 in simple terms?

Obviously it would help with recruitment to a degree in that some kids/parents will want to play at Cat 1 academies but given the footballing giants we're surrounded by, even if we were Cat 1, those kids are still going to end up at Liverpool/Man U/City regardless of category.

You'd imagine the games programme would be against better level players, but I'm sure we could supplement our cat 2 programme with some cat 1 teams.

It feels like we should be aiming for Cat 1, but is the difference between 1 and 2 really worth losing sleep over?

I say this from a point of knowing next to nothing about youth football or the academy setup. Yes, it'd be great to see some players come through the academy, but players like Dwight and Jay came through when our academy was nowhere near the level it is now. Logically you'd think this was more likely in a Cat 1 academy, but I still think our niche is going to be feeding off the scraps and rough diamonds from the big boys ala Dwight, rather than growing our own from 7-8yr olds.

[aggi]

What are the benefits of being a Cat 1 as opposed to Cat 2 in simple terms?

Obviously it would help with recruitment to a degree in that some kids/parents will want to play at Cat 1 academies but given the footballing giants we're surrounded by, even if we were Cat 1, those kids are still going to end up at Liverpool/Man U/City regardless of category.

You'd imagine the games programme would be against better level players, but I'm sure we could supplement our cat 2 programme with some cat 1 teams.

It feels like we should be aiming for Cat 1, but is the difference between 1 and 2 really worth losing sleep over?

I say this from a point of knowing next to nothing about youth football or the academy setup. Yes, it'd be great to see some players come through the academy, but players like Dwight and Jay came through when our academy was nowhere near the level it is now. Logically you'd think this was more likely in a Cat 1 academy, but I still think our niche is going to be feeding off the scraps and rough diamonds from the big boys ala Dwight, rather than growing our own from 7-8yr olds.

Big difference is that higher level academies can poach players from lower level academies for low fees. Also some differences in how far you are allowed to cast your net.

[Clive 1960]

The academy makes a lot of sense in so many ways and it is refreshing to know that the ownership of the club are very much in favour of it. I don't know how much it costs to run but we've sold players in recent years which will considerably help with the running costs. There was a time when the youth department could boast to be the biggest profit making department in the club. Bringing Dwight McNeil, who you forgot, through and selling him gave the club a lot of first team games plus a lot of transfer money, similar to the sales of players such as Kyle Lafferty and Jay Rodriguez. You don't need to bring many through to make it valuable to us.

There were others who came through the school of excellence and one went on to play for our local rivals and still plays for decent money.

[FeedTheArf]

Big difference is that higher level academies can poach players from lower level academies for low fees. Also some differences in how far you are allowed to cast your net.

I take your point about casting the net wider but these 'superpower' clubs, as Dyche used to call them, have more than enough ways of avoiding fees if they want to, not least the multi-club operations most of the top clubs operate.

99% of the time, if they want the player, they get the player!

[Clive 1960]

You wouldn't believe what goes on behind closed doors with player's getting tapped up when there contract is coming to a end at school of excellence in old days and possibly still happening now in the academy .