Next seasons shirt sponsor.

[123EasyasBFC]

I’m not sure your example contradicts anything, lots of things are different for kids at a football club including many things that are specifically for them. In fact you could equally well use your example as proof of the club’s commitment to ‘one club for all’ as they are making the necessary adjustments to make sure children can buy shirts.

Great point

[Rileybobs]

You seem to be a spokesperson for him and providing links he has shared that don’t have anything to do with what I asked

Spokesperson? I just reposted a link, you appear to be losing your way here.

The link I posted contained numerous bits of PR about the supposed charitable endeavours of the company. I thought that’s what you asked for?

[123EasyasBFC]

This poster has been trolling for weeks now, I have been a particular target - best to ignore, particularly as I have given answers to all the proper questions posed - and that includes the charity one which applies to BK8 as well.

The charity side is just buying more local good will, for their very questionable operations. It is just another form of image washing

You can say it’s trolling, so you are saying that W88 today saying they want to help with the community and charity is just wrong image washing? That’s your opinion not fact

You seem to have an issue with letting others have an opinion

[123EasyasBFC]

Spokesperson? I just reposted a link, you appear to be losing your way here.

The link I posted contained numerous bits of PR about the supposed charitable endeavours of the company. I thought that’s what you asked for?

That like was for BK8 not W88

[Rileybobs]

I didn’t say we don’t contradict the ethos, I just said that having a gambling sponsor doesn’t just damage the ethos

No you didn’t, you said
‘don’t understand how having a gambling sponsor means we aren’t following the ‘one club for all’ ethos’

I just gave you an example of how this sponsor on the front of a kit is in contradiction to the club’s ethos. You keep moving the goalposts every time I answer one of your posts.

[123EasyasBFC]

No you didn’t, you said
‘don’t understand how having a gambling sponsor means we aren’t following the ‘one club for all’ ethos’

I just gave you an example of how this sponsor on the front of a kit is in contradiction to the club’s ethos. You keep moving the goalposts every time I answer one of your posts.

Martin gave a great answer as to how we are keeping to the ethos

[123EasyasBFC]

This poster has been trolling for weeks now, I have been a particular target - best to ignore, particularly as I have given answers to all the proper questions posed - and that includes the charity one which applies to BK8 as well.

The charity side is just buying more local good will, for their very questionable operations. It is just another form of image washing

You also didn’t seem to be able to answer what your view is on having alcohol around the ground still

[Rileybobs]

This poster has been trolling for weeks now, I have been a particular target - best to ignore, particularly as I have given answers to all the proper questions posed - and that includes the charity one which applies to BK8 as well.

The charity side is just buying more local good will, for their very questionable operations. It is just another form of image washing

Ah, I wasn’t aware. Haven’t caught up on the MMT or ALK thread for some time.

Yes quite obviously. And I think people can see this if they’re being true to themselves, but are choosing not to.

[martin_p]

It’s not about aligning your moral compass with that of a far East Asian government. The club is being used as a front for people to tap into an illegal betting market - surely you can see that this could only serve to damage our image?

These companies have been around for a while and no club has had their image damaged as a result.

[Rileybobs]

These companies have been around for a while and no club has had their image damaged as a result.

How can you claim that?

[martin_p]

How can you claim that?

Well give me an example of a club that has had it’s image damaged by dealing with such a betting company and what negative effects it has caused.

[Rileybobs]

I’m not sure your example contradicts anything, lots of things are different for kids at a football club including many things that are specifically for them. In fact you could equally well use your example as proof of the club’s commitment to ‘one club for all’ as they are making the necessary adjustments to make sure children can buy shirts.

Well yes, it’s quite a clever ethos I suppose because it can be spun any which way as you’ve proven. It could equally say that we are committed to promote illegal gambling for our friends in east Asia.

I enjoy your posts, and on a lot of topics we seem to share similar values. But whilst I completely respect your opposing view on this I don’t for one minute believe that you can’t see how this sponsorship deal is in even the tiniest way in conflict with our ‘one club for all’ ethos.

[123EasyasBFC]

Well give me an example of a club that has had it’s image damaged by dealing with such a betting company and what negative effects it has caused.

He will provide you with a link from Chester Perry Shortly

[Rileybobs]

Well give me an example of a club that has had it’s image damaged by dealing with such a betting company and what negative effects it has caused.

Well Chester’s Josimar article damages the image of Aston Villa by their association with a shady firm. Any press, podcast, radio show where these companies are discussed in a negative light could damage the image of any club associated with them.

I don’t know what negative effects it has caused as I don’t work in the club, but this could lead to commercial deals with other more reputable organisations being compromised due to the club’s perceived values. Again, I’m sure you can see how this could effect the club’s image in the same way that having a charity on the front of the shirt could.

[Rileybobs]

He will provide you with a link from Chester Perry Shortly

Chester just warned me that you’re a troll and you’re going some way to prove this, so I won’t bother engaging with you any further.

[martin_p]

Well yes, it’s quite a clever ethos I suppose because it can be spun any which way as you’ve proven. It could equally say that we are committed to promote illegal gambling for our friends in east Asia.

I enjoy your posts, and on a lot of topics we seem to share similar values. But whilst I completely respect your opposing view on this I don’t for one minute believe that you can’t see how this sponsorship deal is in even the tiniest way in conflict with our ‘one club for all’ ethos.

I’m struggling to see it to be honest. The ‘one club for all’ ethos is essentially about inclusivity, welcoming everyone. I’m not sure how this deal hampers that.

[123EasyasBFC]

Chester just warned me that you’re a troll and you’re going some way to prove this, so I won’t bother engaging with you any further.

Not a troll at all, I had my opinion about the sponsor which was that I didn’t have a problem with it if it’s the best offer and Chester then started with the finances instead of letting someone have their own opinion. Chester just doesn’t like anyone questioning him, he gets called out on multiple threads for bringing it all back to the leveraged purchase and the ownership model, you proved me right why literally saying above Chester’s article

[martin_p]

Well Chester’s Josimar article damages the image of Aston Villa by their association with a shady firm. Any press, podcast, radio show where these companies are discussed in a negative light could damage the image of any club associated with them.

Ok, but these are niche websites of the sort Chester frequents (and all power to him for bringing them to attention). Amongst the wider football supporting public there isn’t a great deal of visibility or interest in these issues (aside from the fact that they’re a betting firm), let’s face it the only reason you or I know about it is because of Chester’s posts. It doesn’t seem to have impacted any club’s image, you don’t hear people saying ‘isn’t it a shame Villa’s return to European football has been ruined by having a dodgy sponsor’.

[kentonclaret]

Admittedly, it cannot be easy for the less successful clubs to secure lucrative front of shirt sponsorship deals. Of the 8 PL clubs that had such sponsorship deals from betting companies last season most of them were in the bottom half of the table and 2 were relegated.
The clubs were Bournemouth, Brentford, Everton, Fulham, Leeds, Southampton and West Ham.

[Rileybobs]

Ok, but these are niche websites of the sort Chester frequents (and all power to him for bringing them to attention). Amongst the wider football supporting public there isn’t a great deal of visibility or interest in these issues (aside from the fact that they’re a betting firm), let’s face it the only reason you or I know about it is because of Chester’s posts. It doesn’t seem to have impacted any club’s image, you don’t hear people saying ‘isn’t it a shame Villa’s return to European football has been ruined by having a dodgy sponsor’.

Not true. I listen to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast and Phillipe Auclair has been very vocal about this and the podcast has been very vocal about gambling in football in general. Josimar is quite a well known football magazine.

[martin_p]

Well Chester’s Josimar article damages the image of Aston Villa by their association with a shady firm. Any press, podcast, radio show where these companies are discussed in a negative light could damage the image of any club associated with them.

I don’t know what negative effects it has caused as I don’t work in the club, but this could lead to commercial deals with other more reputable organisations being compromised due to the club’s perceived values. Again, I’m sure you can see how this could effect the club’s image in the same way that having a charity on the front of the shirt could.

Well I’d never heard of Josimar (although admittedly that means nothing) but having had a quick look it’s more of an investigative site looking at the seedier side of football rather than somewhere I’d go for the latest transfer news, I still argue that in the wider football fan community that is still fairly niche.

I don’t doubt gambling sponsorship is a widely discussed issue in the football media but the issue we’re talking about here is a little more specific and, I’d argue, less well known.

But anyway, in summary I’d still argue association with betting companies like W88 hasn’t done any club any actual harm and there’s no evidence to show otherwise.

[Dark Cloud]

I don't really have much of an opinion either way on this tbh, but whilst not in any way being a gambler I have been subjected to the same degree of advertising as everyone else over many years and it's had absolutely zero impact on me. I do tend to agree with something higher up the thread which did say people ultimately have to accept responsibility for their own choices in life and can't always palm the blame off on others. Having stated that I honestly believed last season's shirt including the sponsor was a breath of fresh air and an extremely welcome break from the utterly ubiquitous gambling companies which nobody has heard of anyway. It's a real shame we couldn't use them again and obviously they haven't got deep enough pockets, but I thought we stood out really positively as someone bucking the trend.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Not true. I listen to the Guardian Football Weekly podcast and Phillipe Auclair has been very vocal about this and the podcast has been very vocal about gambling in football in general. Josimar is quite a well known football magazine.

Auclair can pontificate all he likes. He doesn't have to raise revenue to enable a football club to compete.

[Rileybobs]

Well I’d never heard of Josimar (although admittedly that means nothing) but having had a quick look it’s more of an investigative site looking at the seedier side of football rather than somewhere I’d go for the latest transfer news, I still argue that in the wider football fan community that is still fairly niche.

I don’t doubt gambling sponsorship is a widely discussed issue in the football media but the issue we’re talking about here is a little more specific and, I’d argue, less well known.

But anyway, in summary I’d still argue association with betting companies like W88 hasn’t done any club any actual harm and there’s no evidence to show otherwise.

Fair enough. Suppose we’ve each got our own view on this so little point going round in circles.

As an aside this isn’t something I’m particularly passionate about but I made a single post summarising my thoughts which I think are fairly balanced, and every subsequent post has been in response to somebody who has directly responded to me.

[Rileybobs]

Auclair can pontificate all he likes. He doesn't have to raise revenue to enable a football club to compete.

Nor do any of us. To use that logic (and again not a comparison but an example!!!) Auclair doesn’t have to circumvent FFP rules in order to win the Champions League, but he is free to have a view and pontificate about it.

[martin_p]

Fair enough. Suppose we’ve each got our own view on this so little point going round in circles.

As an aside this isn’t something I’m particularly passionate about but I made a single post summarising my thoughts which I think are fairly balanced, and every subsequent post has been in response to somebody who has directly responded to me.

I’m not massively passionate about it either to be honest but i enjoyed the conversation

[Chester Perry]

Auclair can pontificate all he likes. He doesn't have to raise revenue to enable a football club to compete.

the key is, Auclair has done a lot of investigation into the issues he talks about - he is not just voicing something for the sake of it, he has taken considerable time to delve into the situation and examine/analyse it - far more than anyone posting on here has

I agree with his personal statement too

"If I didn't love football so much, I'd f****** hate it".
https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair

[123EasyasBFC]

Fair enough. Suppose we’ve each got our own view on this so little point going round in circles.

As an aside this isn’t something I’m particularly passionate about but I made a single post summarising my thoughts which I think are fairly balanced, and every subsequent post has been in response to somebody who has directly responded to me.

We are all Burnley fans at the end of the day and come 11th august will all be there regardless of the sponsors

[123EasyasBFC]

the key is, Auclair has done a lot of investigation into the issues he talks about - he is not just voicing something for the sake of it, he has taken considerable time to delve into the situation and examine/analyse it - far more than anyone posting on here has

I agree with his personal statement too

"If I didn't love football so much, I'd f****** hate it".
https://twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair

There’s a hell of a lot of things in football that if I already didn’t love it, I would hate it

Diving
Broadcasts
Wages

To name a few

[Lancasterclaret]

Philip Auclair is ace

His FIFA rants are superb - absolutely blows just how corrupt it is (and its getting worse)

[ClaretTony]

That isn’t a link about W88 commenting on wanting to help in the community and to local charities, you are getting yourself confused

Is there such a link? All I’ve seen on community is the usual stuff from the club.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Philip Auclair is ace

His FIFA rants are superb - absolutely blows just how corrupt it is (and its getting worse)

I'd love him to be in charge of FIFA, but unless he is its a bit "man rants in pub" however erudite he is.

[123EasyasBFC]

Is there such a link? All I’ve seen on community is the usual stuff from the club.

Yeah link on the website which is what I said - https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... rt-sponsor didn’t say it was on W88’s website

[ClaretTony]

Yeah link on the website which is what I said - https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... rt-sponsor didn’t say it was on W88’s website

You said that they (the sponsor) had spoken about community projects. That is not true at all, it’s a comment from the club.

[Foshiznik]

You said that they (the sponsor) had spoken about community projects. That is not true at all, it’s a comment from the club.

Splitting hairs a bit. It mentions the sponsors community activities.

“ W88 will receive visibility across Turf Moor on matchdays and via the Club’s digital channels and will work hand-in-hand with the Clarets on community projects and initiatives, engaging with supporters and assisting in the Club’s charitable activities.”

[ClaretTony]

Splitting hairs a bit. It mentions the sponsors community activities.

“ W88 will receive visibility across Turf Moor on matchdays and via the Club’s digital channels and will work hand-in-hand with the Clarets on community projects and initiatives, engaging with supporters and assisting in the Club’s charitable activities.”

Not splitting any hairs at all, the poster said that W88 had said they would be involved in community projects and they haven't.

[Pickles]

The murky, shutters down, warehouse-on-an-industrial-estate UK "headquarters", an official Twitter account with 59 followers, and the addiction issues aside... shirts with betting sponsors on the front just look crap. No character or culture, indistinguishable, forgettable. The shirts we wore for our first European fixtures in decades, can many even remember them? They should be sought-after classics, instantly identifiable. But they aren't. You can pick them up on eBay etc for about £30.

[123EasyasBFC]

You said that they (the sponsor) had spoken about community projects. That is not true at all, it’s a comment from the club.

Which will of come from the sponsor, or are you saying the club are assuming W88 will help with the community and charities?

[123EasyasBFC]

Not splitting any hairs at all, the poster said that W88 had said they would be involved in community projects and they haven't.

Where had the club got that information from? You can’t be suggesting they are making it up?

[ClaretTony]

Which will of come from the sponsor, or are you saying the club are assuming W88 will help with the community and charities?

It is a statement from the club, not the sponsor. Surely you can see that. If you look back, the same has been said about other such betting sponsors who proved to offer nothing of the kind. I'll reserve judgement but the sponsors have not said that, even with the opportunity of a quote, they have not said that.

[123EasyasBFC]

It is a statement from the club, not the sponsor. Surely you can see that. If you look back, the same has been said about other such betting sponsors who proved to offer nothing of the kind. I'll reserve judgement but the sponsors have not said that, even with the opportunity of a quote, they have not said that.

As the poster said you are splitting hairs in my opinion, comments about community and charity work being spun as a negative, that’s just prime Burnley fans that

[Foshiznik]

Either the sponsor has said it to the club and the club has put it in the statement (and it could be a lie from the sponsor) or the club are lying. I’d say the former is more likely but I respect your opinion that the latter is true.

[ClaretTony]

As the poster said you are splitting hairs in my opinion, comments about community and charity work being spun as a negative, that’s just prime Burnley fans that

I give up. I've explained it to you but you have no intention understanding it. I'm not splitting any hairs, I'm stating fact and trying to explain to you that what you posted of them commenting on community projects is downright wrong. It doesn't mean they won't, but they have not said anything of the kind.

[Foshiznik]

As much as I don’t want a gambling sponsor, I am glad it’s at least not one with Chinese writing and has sponsored other clubs in the past.

[ClaretTony]

and has sponsored other clubs in the past.

Villa, Wolves, Palace and Fulham before us I believe

[123EasyasBFC]

I give up. I've explained it to you but you have no intention understanding it. I'm not splitting any hairs, I'm stating fact and trying to explain to you that what you posted of them commenting on community projects is downright wrong. It doesn't mean they won't, but they have not said anything of the kind.

You are splitting hairs when the comment is on the club website, yes it comes from the club not the sponsor but it’s in relation to the new sponsorship so the statement has surely been drawn together from club and W88, why the need to be so rude ‘you have no intention of understanding it’ you have just created a big deal out of nothing Tony

[ClaretTony]

You are splitting hairs when the comment is on the club website, yes it comes from the club not the sponsor but it’s in relation to the new sponsorship so the statement has surely been drawn together from club and W88, why the need to be so rude ‘you have no intention of understanding it’ you have just created a big deal out of nothing Tony

So you have admitted that the comment is from the club which is exactly what I've been trying to explain to you. I'm not splitting hairs, it's not part of any statement but is from a quote by someone at Burnley FC. We've seen it before, as I've said, time will tell, but you are just wrong with your assumption that W88 have said any such thing.

[Casper2]

As the poster said you are splitting hairs in my opinion, comments about community and charity work being spun as a negative, that’s just prime Burnley fans that

This comment shows you are a troll

[123EasyasBFC]

So you have admitted that the comment is from the club which is exactly what I've been trying to explain to you. I'm not splitting hairs, it's not part of any statement but is from a quote by someone at Burnley FC. We've seen it before, as I've said, time will tell, but you are just wrong with your assumption that W88 have said any such thing.

If I’d of worded it saying the club website is saying W88 will help with community and charities you wouldn’t of made a comment, so are you saying the club have made their statement off their own back or will you dodge that question again? You don’t know for a fact that W88 didn’t ask the club to write that

The way you have gone about the argument is splitting hairs, someone else not involved in the discussion thought so to

[Casper2]

That is literally the reply of someone who tried to use a link that had nothing to do with the discussion and has no argument back, poor attempt, you couldn’t answer the part about alcohol. I have no feelings either way about the board/ownership, my opinion on which this thread is about, is that i don’t have any problem in any ownership taking the biggest shirt deal they can, nobody is telling you that you have to agree with me.

But if you want to argue and want to go out looking for an argument then using something relevant to the posts would be better

There’s only you arguing about this