Next seasons shirt sponsor.

[jdrobbo]

Has there been abuse on this thread or are you accusing me of abusing you ?

I am happy the club has agreed a good sponsorship deal yes, but I have only questioned why something should be banned due to someone not agreeing with it, if that constitutes abuse then it is probably better to say nothing.

Absolutely. Re-read my post. It’s about belittling comments without thought or care, during the thread.

[BurnleyFC]

I’d rather have W88 or Dafabet on the shirts than have Totally Wicked stuck all over a stand (ex-Bob Lord) or indeed a shirt - ******* Rovers.

[martin_p]

Unfortunately on any moral issue, people whose position is amoral or immoral will always feel the need to castigate others. I think it makes them feel better.

I’m not sure not having an issue with a gambling sponsor could be considered either amoral or immoral.

[daveisaclaret]

I’m not sure not having an issue with a gambling sponsor could be considered either amoral or immoral.

To me, the people dismissing concerns about the sponsor have to be one or the other unless they think there is moral good in having this sponsor which so far I don't think anyone has claimed.

[martin_p]

To me, the people dismissing concerns about the sponsor have to be one or the other unless they think there is moral good in having this sponsor which so far I don't think anyone has claimed.

Well no, it doesn’t have to be a force for good not to be immoral, just not morally wrong (according to whatever morals you hold). And amoral implies you don’t care whether it’s immoral or not, which again doesn’t hold if you hold the opinion it’s not morally wrong.

[daveisaclaret]

Well no, it doesn’t have to be a force for good not to be immoral, just not morally wrong (according to whatever morals you hold). And amoral implies you don’t care whether it’s immoral or not, which again doesn’t hold if you hold the opinion it’s not morally wrong.

Amoral can mean thinking something is not a moral issue.

[martin_p]

Amoral can mean thinking something is not a moral issue.

Yes it can, although it’s more common usage is lack of concern for morals, but you can think it is a moral issue but not immoral, I certainly do.

[elwaclaret]

I understand the club going with the best offer, even if it’s ethically against their beliefs as they are doing their best to maximise revenue for the business.

Maybe his nibs we come in last minute, I used to have a patch in the 70’s “Burnley King of Clubs” maybe “ King Claret” would get my vote for sponsor… and that would raise the clubs profile considerably.

[daveisaclaret]

Yes it can, although it’s more common usage is lack of concern for morals, but you can think it is a moral issue but not immoral, I certainly do.

I've no idea what you're getting at.

[ŽižkovClaret]

The trouble is, that some can't help but come across rather preachy and holier than thou, and this inevitably puts some people's backs up. Once someone might feel they are being dismissed as immoral, and therefore somehow less righteous, they will tend to turn a little facetious.

[martin_p]

I've no idea what you're getting at.

I believe shirt sponsorship is a moral issue, there’s a line that has to be drawn and it’s not just a case of highest bidder. So not amoral.
However I don’t believe gambling, and by extension a gambling shirt sponsor, is immoral.

[ŽižkovClaret]

I believe shirt sponsorship is a moral issue, there’s a line that has to be drawn and it’s not just a case of highest bidder. So not amoral.
However I don’t believe gambling, and by extension a gambling shirt sponsor, is immoral.

Its a number on spreadsheet. As long as the sponsor is legal in the country the deal is for, its all good.

[martin_p]

As long as the sponsor is legal in the country the deal is for, it’s all good.

Which makes it a moral issue.

[daveisaclaret]

I believe shirt sponsorship is a moral issue, there’s a line that has to be drawn and it’s not just a case of highest bidder. So not amoral.
However I don’t believe gambling, and by extension a gambling shirt sponsor, is immoral.

Good for you?

[ŽižkovClaret]

Which makes it a moral issue.

I don't equate legality with morality.

[dandeclaret]

Nail on head.

Is there a difference in abuse levels being called amoral or immoral rather than a snowflake etc?

I think there's a better way to express difference in views, but I wouldn't take those sorts of words to heart.

[dandeclaret]

To me, the people dismissing concerns about the sponsor have to be one or the other unless they think there is moral good in having this sponsor which so far I don't think anyone has claimed.

Can you not be moral neutral? Is there no nuance in the world any more? Either you're totally pro, or totally against everything? Pick your side, and completely dismiss alternative views to ones own?

If you're not with me, you're against me eh?

[daveisaclaret]

Can you not be moral neutral? Is there no nuance in the world any more? Either you're totally pro, or totally against everything? Pick your side, and completely dismiss alternative views to ones own?

If you're not with me, you're against me eh?

I don't know why you've made up loads of questions to imply I believe things I haven't said

[ŽižkovClaret]

Unfortunately on any moral issue, people whose position is amoral or immoral will always feel the need to castigate others. I think it makes them feel better.

One might throw similar shade at those who feel entitled to brand others amoral, or immoral, personally. Especially where, as is often the case, people equate atheism with a lack of moral fibre.

[daveisaclaret]

One might throw similar shade at those who feel entitled to brand others amoral, or immoral, personally. Especially where, as is often the case, people equate atheism with a lack of moral fibre.

Atheism???

[ŽižkovClaret]

Atheism???

In the sense that some would believe that one cannot live a moral life without religious belief

[daveisaclaret]

In the sense that some would believe that one cannot live a moral life without religious belief

I hope you've done your stretches before reaching this far

[forzagranata]

An expert on Asian betting firms has his say on the Burnley deal on this week’s From The Beehole End podcast btw

[Chester Perry]

An expert on Asian betting firms has his say on the Burnley deal on this week’s From The Beehole End podcast btw

It was a good listen, just a shame you didn't go into detail about BK8 being the training Kit sponsor - Philippe might have choked on that combination.

I would not be surprised it there were connections between the ultimate owners of both - The TGP set-up in the Isle of Man is particularly putrid

[Firthy]

I think I've just lost the moral will to live

[jdrobbo]

An expert on Asian betting firms has his say on the Burnley deal on this week’s From The Beehole End podcast btw

Agree. Very insightful. Feels a bit grim!!

[alf_resco]

This is so tiresome.
If it upsets you so much- don't buy a shirt (I've never bought one, ever.)
If that's not enough, don't go on the Turf.
Your choice, as it should always be.

[jdrobbo]

This is so tiresome.
If it upsets you so much- don't buy a shirt (I've never bought one, ever.)
If that's not enough, don't go on the Turf.
Your choice, as it should always be.

Sounds very much like you’re trying to shut people down here? If someone wants to politely campaign against something because of the absolute turmoil it has caused a friend or worse, seen a family member take their life because of being exploited over and over again, whilst ‘taking a break’ is your recommendation that they just shut up and don’t buy a shirt, as you personally are finding it tiresome? If so, may I suggest a that’s an extremely simplistic view of a very emotive (to some) situation. Best wishes.

[Nori1958]

Sounds very much like you’re trying to shut people down here? If someone wants to politely campaign against something because of the absolute turmoil it has caused a friend or worse, seen a family member take their life because of being exploited over and over again, whilst ‘taking a break’ is your recommendation that they just shut up and don’t buy a shirt, as you personally are finding it tiresome? If so, may I suggest a that’s an extremely simplistic view of a very emotive (to some) situation. Best wishes.

To be fair, it is the normal way, if you don't like something, or disagree with something the best way to show your disapproval is to not buy the product, not pay a subscription, not attend an event etc etc.

[timshorts]

Just to add a further problem with our shirt sponsor, we will also end up with the number 88 on the front of our shirts, which might become banned from tv in some countries anyway due to its connections with anti-semitism.

Italy looks like it will ban the number on shirts already. Of course, it is a lucky number in the far east, and without talk of the ban, I would have had no chance of working out that it was anti semitic, let alone why, which seems a bit of a stretch to say the least. If it gets banned, no doubt the anti-semitic types will now start wearing 88 clothing when they wouldn't have before.

[Firthy]

Just to add a further problem with our shirt sponsor, we will also end up with the number 88 on the front of our shirts, which might become banned from tv in some countries anyway due to its connections with anti-semitism.

Italy looks like it will ban the number on shirts already. Of course, it is a lucky number in the far east, and without talk of the ban, I would have had no chance of working out that it was anti semitic, let alone why, which seems a bit of a stretch to say the least. If it gets banned, no doubt the anti-semitic types will now start wearing 88 clothing when they wouldn't have before.

Unfortunatley it's the way of the world these days. People and the media will find some negativity in everything or something to complain about. I wasn't even aware of the meaning of 88 in german code until I googled it.

[Chester Perry]

Interesting from the head of NHS England as the NHD are to almost double the number of gambling clinics

NHS England head urges football clubs to consider gambling ad impact
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66076015

[Chester Perry]

Chelsea fans protest leads to abandonment of proposed gambling shirt sponsor - this followed the failure of another shirt deal with Paramount that was blocked by the Premier League because of related party issues - it is likely to see them lose £millions in revenue - it shows that fans can set the tone (though Chelsea fans are far from the best of examples)

Chelsea abandon shirt sponsorship deal with online casino after criticism from fans
Experts had been shocked to discover club were considering deal with betting firm that would damage reputation
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... no-fans%2F

[martin_p]

‘Damage reputation’

[claptrappers_union]

Chelsea fans protest leads to abandonment of proposed gambling shirt sponsor - this followed the failure of another shirt deal with Paramount that was blocked by the Premier League because of related party issues - it is likely to see them lose £millions in revenue - it shows that fans can set the tone (though Chelsea fans are far from the best of examples)

Chelsea abandon shirt sponsorship deal with online casino after criticism from fans
Experts had been shocked to discover club were considering deal with betting firm that would damage reputation
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... no-fans%2F

The same fans that chanted Roman Abramovich's name during a pre-match minute's show of solidarity and support with the people of Ukraine.

[Chester Perry]

The same fans that chanted Roman Abramovich's name during a pre-match minute's show of solidarity and support with the people of Ukraine.

like I said they are not the best of examples, or even the worst. All fanbases have sizeable elements that will glorify the abhorrent if the people associated are also bringing 'success' to their club

[kentonclaret]

The national news yesterday reported that the NHS is to open 7 new Gambling Addiction Clinics bringing the total number across the country to 15. Soaring demand, especially among the younger generation, among the reasons given for the expansion.
We are all paying of course through additional taxation.

[martin_p]

The national news yesterday reported that the NHS is to open 7 new Gambling Addiction Clinics bringing the total number across the country to 15. Soaring demand, especially among the younger generation, among the reasons given for the expansion.
We are all paying of course through additional taxation.

Yeah, but I can make that back on the horses!

[Burnley1989]

The same fans that chanted Roman Abramovich's name during a pre-match minute's show of solidarity and support with the people of Ukraine.

Id forgotten about that, its actually unbelievable is that when you think back. I was near their fans in the Bob Lord and my blood was boiling, vile supporters, just like the scousers singing 'liz is in a box' when the queen died and during her minutes silence, just scummy people.

[ŽižkovClaret]

*Rinse and repeat*

[Scampi]

This might be one for ChesterPerry, but does anyone have a sense of how much the deal is likely to be for? My initial reaction for all the, relatively unheard of in the UK, gambling sponsors we've had, and the Visit Detroit thing, is "Can they really be paying all that much? Is it really worth it?"

[agreenwood]

I’d rather we didn’t have a betting firm as a sponsor, but if I ran a business that required massive outlays to be be successful, I’d probably reluctantly opt for the highest sources of income available to me so long as they were legal.

[wilks_bfc]

I’d rather we didn’t have a betting firm as a sponsor, but if I ran a business that required massive outlays to be be successful, I’d probably reluctantly opt for the highest sources of income available to me so long as they were legal.

Feel the same way

And with these kind of sponsors only being allowed for 2 more seasons then clubs will be using whilst they can

[BurnleyFC]

A record Championship financial deal for us, apparently. Which is obviously good news.

[Quickenthetempo]

One of the supporters of on FAB reckon it will bring in millions (2 year deal though) and betting sponsors still allowed in the championship.

[1989_claret]

Owned by TGP Europe Ltd who are based in the Isle of Man.

[ClaretTony]

A record Championship financial deal for us, apparently. Which is obviously good news.

That’s meaningless really. The Classic Football Shirts deal was minimal and not for all kits. The previous Championship season was nine years earlier than this one.

[daveisaclaret]

Rotten and immoral, as we have come to expect.

Good news for those who support a bank balance, not really so much for those still clinging on to the idea of supporting a community football club.

[agreenwood]

Rotten and immoral, as we have come to expect.

Good news for those who support a bank balance, not really so much for those still clinging on to the idea of supporting a community football club.

Are bank balances not important to community football clubs?

[123EasyasBFC]

Rotten and immoral, as we have come to expect.

Good news for those who support a bank balance, not really so much for those still clinging on to the idea of supporting a community football club.

The sponsor doesn’t really bother me but I understand people’s reasons for not liking gambling sponsorships but out of curiosity would you have the same feeling if we had a alcoholic logo or a tobacco logo on the front of our shirt?