Britain's Strictest Headmistress - ITV, Sunday 22nd May 10:15pm

[quoonbeatz]

Shame to see someone falling apart in public but KB is a total horror so, y'know. She should be kept as far away from education as possible.

[dsr]

Wow!

Alternatively, if "every school had a KB" we'd create the biggest rat race since Maggie sold £20 notes for a fiver apiece and created 10 million Warren Buffet wannabes overnight.

She appears to have a very good record of taking pupils from very poor backgrounds and giving them the tools to get good jobs. But that clearly can't be what you mean by a rat race, because a rat race is a general bad thing. She has said, actually, that being a secretary doesn't mean you've failed in life, so she isn't all about Warren Buffet.

[Lancasterclaret]

Imagine having good schools everywhere, rather the resources poured into private schools and ones run by media personalities

That would be great wouldn't it?

[dsr]

Imagine having good schools everywhere, rather the resources poured into private schools and ones run by media personalities

That would be great wouldn't it?

I don't think her school became good simply because of the TV programme that said what a good school it was. Surely she became a media personality simply because of the state of her school.

There's more to money that makes a good school.

[Rowls]

I'd listen to what Jd says btw, its quite important to listen to experts

Ms. Birbalsingh is an expert too. I'm confident jdrobbo is a very good teacher but whatever his disagreements with KB's methods are, it's a disagreement and nothing else.

That's fine. Disagreement is ok. But state the nature of the disagreement instead of branding the opposite side as "disgraceful" or whatever word was used.

[Rowls]

Up until now you've always been very evasive when I've asked for actual evidence of her long running track record of success (or even what metric you were using to judge success) but I guess this is something you can actually provide a link to?

This is something I'm happy to look into, once I'm back from holiday next week.

[Rowls]

Imagine having good schools everywhere, rather the resources poured into private schools and ones run by media personalities

That would be great wouldn't it?

But there ARE schools everywhere, and they receive funding based on the same formulas.

They're not all good though. Comprehensives are notoriously average.

Katherine Birbalsingh's school, on the other hand, is exceptional.

[evensteadiereddie]

Funding is not based on the same formulae...

[nil_desperandum]

Funding is not based on the same formulae...

Beat me to it. Absolutely not.

[fatboy47]

Delderfield's excellent trilogy "To Serve Them All My Days" offers an enduring and intuitive analysis of the contrast between a driven, achieving and ultimately despotic headmaster and the central character DPJ with his holistic/bigger-picture approach.

I'd recommend it to everyone who'd like an entertaining and objective view of school leadership.

[evensteadiereddie]

I think the constant misrepresentation of Katherine Birbalsingh is evident in this thread.

It's puzzling because the results suggest her school is doing an outstanding job?

People will now be able to see for themselves and make their own minds up. It'll be interesting to see how the school is achieving these results.

Indeed it will and, of course, just as interesting to see whether this success can be sustained, how much teacher turnover there will be, given the massive recruitment problems that are beginning to surface and how, if and when standards decline, how Ofsted will react.

[aggi]

Indeed it will and, of course, just as interesting to see whether this success can be sustained, how much teacher turnover there will be, given the massive recruitment problems that are beginning to surface and how, if and when standards decline, how Ofsted will react.

I very briefly flicked through her twitter yesterday (highly amused by the protests that the National Conservatism jamboree wasn't political and she shouldn't be judged by the company she keeps) and one comment that was a throwaway from her but leaped out at me was "boasting" that the school had SLT meetings at 7am. I'd be surprised if that kind of thing was sustainable without significant staff turnover. I know a few teachers who have been at schools like that when they are expecting Ofsted or new heads have come in and although it works for a few years things either scale back to a more realistic timetable or people leave.

[aggi]

This is something I'm happy to look into, once I'm back from holiday next week.

I look forward to it.

[Quicknick]

I very briefly flicked through her twitter yesterday (highly amused by the protests that the National Conservatism jamboree wasn't political and she shouldn't be judged by the company she keeps) and one comment that was a throwaway from her but leaped out at me was "boasting" that the school had SLT meetings at 7am. I'd be surprised if that kind of thing was sustainable without significant staff turnover. I know a few teachers who have been at schools like that when they are expecting Ofsted or new heads have come in and although it works for a few years things either scale back to a more realistic timetable or people leave.

SLT meetings at 7 a.m! I wouldn't like to work there. The best-run school I taught in was in a Brent girls' school in the '80s. Headed by a real old-school type, a fierce Yorkshire woman who put the sh1ts up everyone, including the head of the adjacent boys' school. The worst head was another fierce type in more modern times in an academy. Appalling man-management skills.

[Lancasterclaret]

it is funny btw that the todays reason that Rowls can't back anything up he says is that he's on holiday

Tremendous

[Colburn_Claret]

But there ARE schools everywhere, and they receive funding based on the same formulas.

They're not all good though. Comprehensives are notoriously average.

Katherine Birbalsingh's school, on the other hand, is exceptional.

It's the British 'thing', politicians, sports stars, TV personalities. We build them up, and are then determined to pull them down. It seems successful teachers now get the same treatment.
I confess I haven't watched the programme, or read the majority of this thread, there's no need really as the same polar opposites will be arguing the same one sided rhetoric.
I would only say that teachers should be judged by results. You don't make an omelette without breaking eggs. You don't educate children without upsetting someone in this modern over sensitive society. If her results are outstanding, then as far as I'm concerned, she's an outstanding teacher.

[evensteadiereddie]

Possibly but, given the problems of recruitment, teacher burnout and so on, there is no chance of this type of "success" being replicated realistically on a widespread, nationwide scale.
People like Ringo, for instance, would have to vote for much greater resources being put into staff recruitment and retention, infrastructure and so on but they wouldn't.its much easier to point to a gimmick like this and assume if it can be done there, it can be done everywhere.

[Lancasterclaret]

Just a quick reminder that this superstar of the teaching profession, the poster girl of every Nat-C member out there, believed that kids were identifying as cats, and continued to believe that even after about 20000 people sent her "evidence" (normally a picture of their cat)

[Uwe Noble]

Just retired after nearly 40 years teaching in secondary schools.
Left prematurely because of poor behaviour, first and foremost, but also lack of support from senior staff and parents, lack of autonomy and workload. I would have given my eye teeth to work for Katherine Birbalsingh.

To see the majority of kids in a particular class having their education severely affected because schools are scared to address the behaviour of a disruptive minority (and their unsupportive parents) is frustrating beyond words.

Rowle may not have children but it does n't stop his comments being spot on.

[claretandy]

Just retired after nearly 40 years teaching in secondary schools.
Left prematurely because of poor behaviour, first and foremost, but also lack of support from senior staff and parents, lack of autonomy and workload. I would have given my eye teeth to work for Katherine Birbalsingh.

To see the majority of kids in a particular class having their education severely affected because schools are scared to address the behaviour of a disruptive minority (and their unsupportive parents) is frustrating beyond words.

Rowle may not have children but it does n't stop his comments being spot on.

Echos what my kids have told me.

[Lancasterclaret]

Echos what my kids have told me.

DNHOTY awards contender

[quoonbeatz]

Love the idea that she's being misrepresented. She's doing a fine job of representing herself in the worst possible light without any assistance from anyone on here.

[evensteadiereddie]

There is some truth in this.
I retired 6 years ago having done 40 years teaching English and serving a good number of those as Head of Years 8 and 9.
A pretty challenging school but firm yet fair decent heads and a mix of well established and dynamic young staff improved the school immeasurably.
This fetish of running the school like some kind of boor camp is not necessary and, indeed, most schools recognise this and attempt to give their kids a chance, something we'd all agree upon, I'm sure.
The problem is and this where I had some pretty major disagreements with my last Head is the line of tolerance.
There were indeed a number of kids who could not or would not adapt to our school's ethos.
Fair enough and I'm all for being inclusive but how much rope do you give these characters.?
I always used to argue that we give the kid and the parents two terms to let us get them sorted or they look elsewhere.

As above, I'd heard the stories of kids going home and relating to their parents how yet another lesson had been made difficult by one of these characters.
It was the cumulative damage that irritated me.
I have to say I got no satisfaction from the occasions I was proved right when said miscreants were expelled eventually probably two years too late.
The other parts of classroom teaching and being a Head of Year? One. of the best jobs in the world.

[Lancasterclaret]

every school is clearly different, but my kids school puts a lot of resources into pastoral care, so attract a fair few more "difficult" kids than if the norm, and still manage to be one of the best schools in the area

I'd argue till the kids come home that if you properly fund education, then you can minimise the damage that can be done by disruptive pupils

But I also take on board Uwes point about not having the support required (as that can happen in any environment, and it makes the job so much harder)

I believe that the vast majority of kids, parents, teachers, headteachers want to enjoy and work as hard as possible at school and there are many ways of achieving that, but I'm not sold on the idea that the way KB is doing it is the correct way

[claretandy]

DNHOTY awards contender

Keep burying your head in the sand.

[dsr]

every school is clearly different, but my kids school puts a lot of resources into pastoral care, so attract a fair few more "difficult" kids than if the norm, and still manage to be one of the best schools in the area

I'd argue till the kids come home that if you properly fund education, then you can minimise the damage that can be done by disruptive pupils

But I also take on board Uwes point about not having the support required (as that can happen in any environment, and it makes the job so much harder)

I believe that the vast majority of kids, parents, teachers, headteachers want to enjoy and work as hard as possible at school and there are many ways of achieving that, but I'm not sold on the idea that the way KB is doing it is the correct way

I'm not at all sold on the idea that there is "the correct way" to bring up children. For one thing, I reckon there are several correct ways; for another, not all children should be brought up the same way because children aren't all the same.

Surely the way forward is to have lots of schools doing much more their own thing, with lots of parental choice about where they send the children, and the schools that can't attract children will shut down. Closing down the bad schools is much more the way forward than closing down the good ones.

Funding isn't the big issue here. When my mother started teaching (infant school) she had 50 in her class and no classroom assistants, sitting two to a desk, and writing on slates because they hadn't enough paper. If standards of learning and behaviour are not vastly better now than they were in 1952, then it's not just because of money. There are other very significant factors.

[Lancasterclaret]

Keep burying your head in the sand.

I've got kids

I talk to them about stuff that is real

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm not at all sold on the idea that there is "the correct way" to bring up children. For one thing, I reckon there are several correct ways; for another, not all children should be brought up the same way because children aren't all the same.

Surely the way forward is to have lots of schools doing much more their own thing, with lots of parental choice about where they send the children, and the schools that can't attract children will shut down. Closing down the bad schools is much more the way forward than closing down the good ones.

Funding isn't the big issue here. When my mother started teaching (infant school) she had 50 in her class and no classroom assistants, sitting two to a desk, and writing on slates because they hadn't enough paper. If standards of learning and behaviour are not vastly better now than they were in 1952, then it's not just because of money. There are other very significant factors.

I think it might be some time ago that you sent your kids to school DSR!

The issue these days is that the good schools are massively over-subscribed and the bad ones end up with kids who can't be arsed, can't afford to go anywhere else or just can't get to other schools

And I completely disagree with you about funding, the more money that gets put in, the better the schools are. All the schools now ask for contributions to do almost anything, and if you can afford it, you try to help them out because you know how hard it is for schools and education at the moment

[claretandy]

I've got kids

I talk to them about stuff that is real

So do I, as others have said, lessons are disrupted by the same kids and the ones who want to learn, suffer because of it.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I would agree completely with putting more resources into state education (though not at the expense of the vital private sector without which the taxpayer would be paying a fortune more, if those taxpayers want to pay into education twice we should let them).

What I struggle with though is discipline. This isn’t resource dependent to the large degree, it is more about values.

We believe in firm discipline and would only choose a school that has it. That means an uniform is essential, cheekiness to teachers and bullying is stamped out hard, lunch is had sat at a dinner table, mobile phones need to be banned (we don’t even let ours have one), kids cannot leave the school grounds.

Friends of ours with kids in various local schools say much of that doesn’t happen at their school. That’s why I applaud the approach of KBS, annoying and self promoting though she is.

[Lancasterclaret]

So do I, as others have said, lessons are disrupted by the same kids and the ones who want to learn, suffer because of it.

Ah, with you now, assumed you were supporting the whole idea, rather than making a point that the same kids can be an issue

I still think there are other ways of dealing with it than the extreme version of KB

[Lancasterclaret]

I would agree completely with putting more resources into state education (though not at the expense of the vital private sector without which the taxpayer would be paying a fortune more, if those taxpayers want to pay into education twice we should let them).

What I struggle with though is discipline. This isn’t resource dependent to the large degree, it is more about values.

We believe in firm discipline and would only choose a school that has it. That means an uniform is essential, cheekiness to teachers and bullying is stamped out hard, lunch is had sat at a dinner table, mobile phones need to be banned (we don’t even let ours have one), kids cannot leave the school grounds.

Friends of ours with kids in various local schools say much of that doesn’t happen at their school. That’s why I applaud the approach of KBS, annoying and self promoting though she is.

My kids school has all of that, and its nothing like a KBS approach

[aggi]

It's the British 'thing', politicians, sports stars, TV personalities. We build them up, and are then determined to pull them down. It seems successful teachers now get the same treatment.
I confess I haven't watched the programme, or read the majority of this thread, there's no need really as the same polar opposites will be arguing the same one sided rhetoric.
I would only say that teachers should be judged by results. You don't make an omelette without breaking eggs. You don't educate children without upsetting someone in this modern over sensitive society. If her results are outstanding, then as far as I'm concerned, she's an outstanding teacher.

The obvious question here is what are outstanding results?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

For a headteacher she spends an amazing amount of time on Twitter arguing.

[CrosspoolClarets]

My kids school has all of that, and its nothing like a KBS approach

There are many ways to skin a cat so to speak, just like there seem to be many ways to identify as one

Anecdotally I feel your school must be a rarity, I am guessing out of a big city, it seems rarer in the inner cities like where I live.

The only thing I care about is what any child of mine will be like when they get spat out at the end of the conveyer as a young adult, and how that affects their happiness and success in life. Happy with any approach as long as it delivers the outcomes I believe in, which I listed in my post yesterday.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Never heard of her until recently, one thing that did stand out is that her and Jess Phillips are 2 people you would hate to be in the company of.

I bet most of us have a teacher or 2 they would have liked the chance to say something anonymously to online as a kid

[evensteadiereddie]

Well, there were a couple of girls at Edge End who were absolute corkers in the Sixth Form and were even hotter when they returned as teachers, a couple of years later.....

[Colburn_Claret]

Just a quick reminder that this superstar of the teaching profession, the poster girl of every Nat-C member out there, believed that kids were identifying as cats, and continued to believe that even after about 20000 people sent her "evidence" (normally a picture of their cat)

I'm not arguing lancs, I don't know any better, but she can think pigs can fly, as long as the kids are getting a good education.
Glenn Hoddle was my favourite England manager, played brilliant football, hounded out of the job for having a belief I didn't share, which wasn't articulated well, to say the least, but had absolutely no bearing on his ability to do the job.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm not arguing lancs, I don't know any better, but she can think pigs can fly, as long as the kids are getting a good education.
Glenn Hoddle was my favourite England manager, played brilliant football, hounded out of the job for having a belief I didn't share, which wasn't articulated well, to say the least, but had absolutely no bearing on his ability to do the job.

I dunno CC, I think the way she acts on twitter and some of the stuff she comes out with suggests otherwise!

But yeah, not worth the argument - she just isn't my cup of tea and I don't think I'd be comfortable having my kids in that enviroment, but others may well think differently

[ŽižkovClaret]

Well, there were a couple of girls at Edge End who were absolute corkers in the Sixth Form and were even hotter when they returned as teachers, a couple of years later.....

Either they were on a fast track, or maths wasn't your strongest subject

[evensteadiereddie]

I was about 12 or 13, they were in the Sixth Form and would be 18 when they left, returning to teach when they were 21 or 22. Both called Christine funnily enough.
I went on to the Sixth Form and they returned so the maths is bang on.
I even got a grope off one of them at our Sixth Form do at an Inn near Blacko.
Highly illegal nowadays but I don't consider myself damaged from the er, experience...

[Rowls]

I look forward to it.

Its on the Wikipedia page so its easy to find.

In 2022 the value-added (progress) score at GCSE was the highest for any school in England.

It's citation numbers 10 and 11.

[Rowls]

it is funny btw that the todays reason that Rowls can't back anything up he says is that he's on holiday

Tremendous

You don't have to believe I'm on holiday.

It won't make a smidgeon of difference to me.

[aggi]

Its on the Wikipedia page so its easy to find.

It's citation numbers 10 and 11.

Cheers, it hadn't occurred to me that it would even have a wikipedia page to be honest.

Although what you've linked to the value-added (progress) score at GCSE was the highest for any school in England is entirely different to what you said She is managing the school in England with the highest GCSE scores (graded against social background)..

Still very good (and more important in some ways) but I assume you can see the potential issues in rolling that model out to other schools. There is a lot of debate around progress scores and the usefulness of them as one off indicators (part of the reason why they present them with such hefty confidence intervals) and that is further exacerbated by COVID impact.

I'm sure she's a good head on a small scale, what I don't agree with is your suggestion that based on her/the school's very limited track record we should be taking this as a blueprint for all schools. Just like I wouldn't be advocating rolling out the methods of Tauheedul Islam Girls' High School which performs similarly (if not better).

[jdrobbo]

I have spent quite a long time monitoring her interactions with fellow teachers on social media over the last six or seven months. Many of her tweets have been deleted but a five minute search will guide you to many posts that still remain. The thing that I find disturbing most here is how she appears to treat people within the profession… Like they were dirt on the bottom of her shoe, in some examples.

What I also would like to question is her methodology behind commanding respect. I’m not going to slam it down, because different schools take different approaches, and I dare say there are excellent features within her philosophy, but what I would say, is highlighting social deprivation as a means for extremely strict discipline, is not something that I necessarily agree with….

Clear rules and boundaries - yes… Respect for everyone - yes… Sanctions for lack of compliance - yes. Zero tolerance on a number of issues - yes.

I do feel as though I’m in a good place to comment… I’m just about to finish my 18th year at the same school in an incredibly challenging inner-city area. At some stages throughout this period, my place of work has been situated in an area that has been in the bottom 1% (one percent) nationwide for social deprivation.

It’s tough, it’s bloody tough, but that doesn’t necessarily mean children come to school to be badly behaved or that they’re always hard work.

We give everything we have to give the children the best possible chance and shot at life… everything!

We’ve had boys in our fashion club, children of all ages, playing steel pans… full key stage choirs (120 children), boys in the netball team… Girls in the football team… Opportunities and love, wherever it is possible. Talents nurtured and allowed to blossom.

Our attendance for the last decade has been over 97% in every single year, apart from during the pandemic. This year and last, it’s over 98%. We make our school a place that children like to come.

Our results? They have been above national average for seven of the last eight years… Above national average!!! And as an added extra, many of our children arrive from Eritrean and Ethiopian backgrounds, having barely spoken a word of English before reaching four years of age. Their entry points are as low as they come!!

Suspensions? One child in the last 12 years.

Exclusions? None.

We don’t send children into isolation if they can’t afford their dinner money… we make them something different and we teach them the volume of good food and money!! We trust that they will eventually pay what is owed… And we very rarely have a problem, getting the money back!

There are a number of ways to skin a cat, so please forgive me for not showing much support for this alternative approach. Just because some areas are unbelievably difficult… There are several ways to garner respect. I’d like to think that all the children I have taught, and their parents, will respect me for that!

[evensteadiereddie]

Beautifully put, jd.

[Lancasterclaret]

Great post JD

[ClaretDiver]

Excellent post JD!

[Rowls]

I have spent quite a long time monitoring her interactions with fellow teachers on social media over the last six or seven months. Many of her tweets have been deleted but a five minute search will guide you to many posts that still remain. The thing that I find disturbing most here is how she appears to treat people within the profession… Like they were dirt on the bottom of her shoe, in some examples.

What I also would like to question is her methodology behind commanding respect. I’m not going to slam it down, because different schools take different approaches, and I dare say there are excellent features within her philosophy, but what I would say, is highlighting social deprivation as a means for extremely strict discipline, is not something that I necessarily agree with….

Clear rules and boundaries - yes… Respect for everyone - yes… Sanctions for lack of compliance - yes. Zero tolerance on a number of issues - yes.

I do feel as though I’m in a good place to comment… I’m just about to finish my 18th year at the same school in an incredibly challenging inner-city area. At some stages throughout this period, my place of work has been situated in an area that has been in the bottom 1% (one percent) nationwide for social deprivation.

It’s tough, it’s bloody tough, but that doesn’t necessarily mean children come to school to be badly behaved or that they’re always hard work.

We give everything we have to give the children the best possible chance and shot at life… everything!

We’ve had boys in our fashion club, children of all ages, playing steel pans… full key stage choirs (120 children), boys in the netball team… Girls in the football team… Opportunities and love, wherever it is possible. Talents nurtured and allowed to blossom.

Our attendance for the last decade has been over 97% in every single year, apart from during the pandemic. This year and last, it’s over 98%. We make our school a place that children like to come.

Our results? They have been above national average for seven of the last eight years… Above national average!!! And as an added extra, many of our children arrive from Eritrean and Ethiopian backgrounds, having barely spoken a word of English before reaching four years of age. Their entry points are as low as they come!!

Suspensions? One child in the last 12 years.

Exclusions? None.

We don’t send children into isolation if they can’t afford their dinner money… we make them something different and we teach them the volume of good food and money!! We trust that they will eventually pay what is owed… And we very rarely have a problem, getting the money back!

There are a number of ways to skin a cat, so please forgive me for not showing much support for this alternative approach. Just because some areas are unbelievably difficult… There are several ways to garner respect. I’d like to think that all the children I have taught, and their parents, will respect me for that!

Hi jdrobbo and thanks for the response.

If you'd written that in the first place I almost certainly wouldn't have replied.

Whereas you view her replies and interactions as "treating people like dirt" I truly do not see that at all. I see her being firm, maybe a bit curt.

However, she faces a constant barrage of abuse. Things like people calling her names, insults abuse or labelling her as "disgusting" etc when all she is really trying to do is provide the highest standard of education.

She was getting this level of abuse has been coming her way long before she set up the school and way before twitter even existed.

She was cast out of the educational establishment for speaking out against the accepted dogmas that exist within the state system at a conservative party conference. She was effectively cast out if her chosen profession for openly questioning the status quo.

Yes, she can be forthright, firm and even a little bit curt. I don't think she's rude. You highlight that many of her tweets get deleted, that seems to me to be a sign of her decency: twitter is very instantaneous, better to delete something admit it wasn't wise than refuse to acknowledge mistakes. After all, nobody's perfect.

Her methods should be debated publicly abd that debate should, of course, be forthright and filled with passion. We should all be open to seeing what gets good results in education. Just because KB's methods work doesn't mean other approaches can't work. Especially for schools of a demographic intake different from her inner city intake.

We've never, to my knowledge, met but I get the impression you're a very decent guy and a great teacher. However, I think you were wrong to label KB the way you did.

UTC

[jdrobbo]

Thanks too for your reply. I’m sensing you’ve only been following her since she got her fame through television? Historically, I have found her to be way beyond curt. I stand by my words. I’ve read a lot of her content and if we’re judging her ‘curtness’ as acceptable, then I feel we have a bit of a problem. Cheers

Why do you think I was wrong? I do think the way she has treated some people is disgusting; I do think she has spoken to fellow-professionals as if they were dirt…why am I wrong to have these views?