Ashes Second Test

[helmclaret]

Bairstow tried the same thing to Labuschagne in the same match. Not sure England players can come out and moan about it.

Bairstow was a bit wreckless and when the margins are that tight in a high pressure game should have known better.

[Longsidelenny1882]

Stop going around the housers we all no Australia will try and cheat bairstows fault end of upthecolne

[arise_sir_charge]

Bairstow tried the same thing to Labuschagne in the same match. Not sure England players can come out and moan about it.

Bairstow was a bit wreckless and when the margins are that tight in a high pressure game should have known better.

He didn’t though did he. Labuschagne was batting outside of his crease.

[Big Vinny K]

In that case, maybe you could ask for another do if you miss a straight one.

There is a massive difference between what happened yesterday and that you describe.

Tbh I don’t think Shane Warne ball of the century should have been allowed - way way too much turn. It’s just not cricket to be that good !!

Actually heard a caller into radio 5 this morning who played in a women’s game over the weekend. She said that the batter at the other end was trying to run back to her wicket after changing her mind on a run and slipped and fell to the floor. The wicket keeper had the ball in her hand and over the stumps and decided not to take the wicket. Now personally I think that is going too far because we know that risks will often be taken in trying to get singles by players walking down the pitch as the ball is being balled etc. Difference here is they are trying to gain an advantage to get a run.z
But in terms of the spirit of the game it was good to hear and the caller said that nobody on the pitch including both captains had a problem with this.

In terms of yesterday how do we think the Aussies would have reacted if England would have done this. They’d only just stopped crying about Mitchell Starc’s non catch - in fact I’m pretty sure Glen McGrath is still bleating even though he had the rule explained to him by an umpire.

[helmclaret]

Pretty sure Cummins said Bairstow was batting outside his crease.

We’ve beaten in 2 games largely because of tactics and things in own hands.

[helmclaret]

He didn’t though did he. Labuschagne was batting outside of his crease.

Whether Bairstow was batting outside his crease or not is irrelevant. Carey released the ball straight away.

[CoolClaret]

Whether Bairstow was batting outside his crease or not is irrelevant. Carey released the ball straight away.

Carey released it knowing Bairstow was taking a wonder, knowing that it was right on the line of being a dead ball.

That’s why it’s properly crap - it’s completely pre meditated.

& no, Bairstow was not batting out of his crease in this instance and again he re struck his guard - which is a bit of a non official ‘I’m in my wicket’ sort of thing

[Spijed]

It was a s***ty thing to do and the Aussies deserve all the grief they get.

Unfortunately the only grief they'll get is from the England supporters. Seems the ACB is fully behind what happened and they'll just see the English as "Whinging Poms" which is is exactly what they want to happen by getting under the skin of the England players.

[Bordeauxclaret]

It’ll certainly be interesting to see how the rest of the series plays out.

They’ll be players on both sides who agree or disagree with what happened.

It was certainly another fascinating Test match, even without that incident.

[FCBurnley]

Convict fancy dress day at Headingley on Thursday ?

[ebby]

On TV here in Australia tonight, Australian coach said they had discussed doing the action before it took place.

[Clovius Boofus]

I do wish politicians, especially prime ministers, would butt out of this onfield sporting matter. Sunak has now got involved. We really do look like Little Britain at times.

[FCBurnley]

On TV here in Australia tonight, Australian coach said they had discussed doing the action before it took place.

Different mentality. He would probably be proud and feel it won them the game

[JarrowClaret]

I am lost that why anyone would think the Bairstow stumping with his attempt to stump Labushane (spelling) are the same. I think the biggest telltale sign that they were totally different is that if Bairstow had been stumped like that nobody would be questioning it they would all be praising Carey and lambasting Johnny for being very dopey.

The nearest example I can see that is sort of similar is when Foakes stumped balbirne when he stood behind the stumps waiting for the obviously off balance batter to raise his toe. That also doesn’t sit right with me but at least the batter isn’t walking down the wicket thinking the over is finished.

[CoolClaret]

The nearest example I can see that is sort of similar is when Foakes stumped balbirne when he stood behind the stumps waiting for the obviously off balance batter to raise his toe. That also doesn’t sit right with me but at least the batter isn’t walking down the wicket thinking the over is finished.

Yeah that’s the nearest example for me as well and it doesn’t sit right at all - I think it’s very poor from Foakes

[quoonbeatz]

I am lost that why anyone would think the Bairstow stumping with his attempt to stump Labushane (spelling) are the same. I think the biggest telltale sign that they were totally different is that if Bairstow had been stumped like that nobody would be questioning it they would all be praising Carey and lambasting Johnny for being very dopey.

The nearest example I can see that is sort of similar is when Foakes stumped balbirne when he stood behind the stumps waiting for the obviously off balance batter to raise his toe. That also doesn’t sit right with me but at least the batter isn’t walking down the wicket thinking the over is finished.

The reasons they are the same are exactly as I said earlier but we can do it again.

Both incidents are an attempt to punish a mistake by the batsman. One succeeds due to the batsman making that mistake and an accurate throw. Whether the batsman was playing a shot or seeking an advantage is irrelevant.

Yes, the incident yesterday isn't remotely sporting but essentially the actions are the same. It's the reaction to the stumping which is the issue,not that he did it.

[JarrowClaret]

The reasons they are the same are exactly as I said earlier but we can do it again.

Both incidents are an attempt to punish a mistake by the batsman. One succeeds due to the batsman making that mistake and an accurate throw. Whether the batsman was playing a shot or seeking an advantage is irrelevant.

Yes, the incident yesterday isn't remotely sporting but essentially the actions are the same. It's the reaction to the stumping which is the issue,not that he did it.

Nah sorry I don’t agree they are the same, although the keeper actions are 100% the same all about opinions though.

As mentioned before if Bairstow had been stumped doing what labushane did then not 1 person would be questioning it other than moaning why he didn’t get back in his crease. that tells us they are fundamentally different but hey it doesn’t matter really.

[kentonclaret]

Very clear from this incident that many ex players, pundits and coaches have “selective memories” when it comes to “the spirit of the game” and how they applied it. Brendan McCullum’s dismissal of Murali in 2006 caused uproar in the Sri Lankan camp and led to a lot of bad feeling. It clearly wasn’t in the spirit of the game which McCullum acknowledged a few years later. Perhaps Cummins will do the same in his memoirs.

[Big Vinny K]

The reasons they are the same are exactly as I said earlier but we can do it again.

Both incidents are an attempt to punish a mistake by the batsman. One succeeds due to the batsman making that mistake and an accurate throw. Whether the batsman was playing a shot or seeking an advantage is irrelevant.

Yes, the incident yesterday isn't remotely sporting but essentially the actions are the same. It's the reaction to the stumping which is the issue,not that he did it.

The same action by the wicket keeper. Not the same action by the batsmen which is clearly the relevant point yesterday.

Not sure Bairstow even made a mistake - he was doing what batsmen do several times a game. Maybe the mistake he made was forgetting he was playing the cheating Aussies ?

Why would Bairstow or any other player do this if they thought there was any chance whatsoever of being out ? There’s nothing to be gained at all from what Bairstow was doing.

You have also got to ask yourself why has there been such a different reaction to this stumping than the other examples quoted ? To me it’s pretty simple - because people know it was wrong. Even the Aussies know it was wrong - and in time they will admit it too. No doubt they believe winning the match was more important and that’s why they did it. I fully believe Ben Stokes that he would rather have not won than win this way.

[quoonbeatz]

The same action by the wicket keeper. Not the same action by the batsmen which is clearly the relevant point yesterday.

It isn't relevant. If it was, Bairstow wouldn't have been given out.

[Big Vinny K]

It isn't relevant. If it was, Bairstow wouldn't have been given out.

Relevant to the debate.
Everybody already knows why he was given out.
My point is that between the examples being discussed it is the actions of the batsmen that differ. One of the examples the batsman is trying to gain an advantage and putting himself at risk by doing so. Yesterday Bairstow tried to gain no advantage and was doing what nearly every batsmen does several times a game.
If this was a valid and justifiable way of getting someone out why is this not attempted in every single game of cricket, several times a game ?

[quoonbeatz]

Relevant to the debate.
Everybody already knows why he was given out.
My point is that between the examples being discussed it is the actions of the batsmen that differ. One of the examples the batsman is trying to gain an advantage and putting himself at risk by doing so. Yesterday Bairstow tried to gain no advantage and was doing what nearly every batsmen does several times a game.
If this was a valid and justifiable way of getting someone out why is this not attempted in every single game of cricket, several times a game ?

It was both valid and justifiable. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have been given out.

It's wildly unsporting and to not warn him or call him back is really poor behaviour. It's a real shame for the game but it's probably put them on course for winning the series.

[Quickenthetempo]

At least we know the Aussies are back to winning at all costs attitude.
They pretended to be nice for a while after sandpaper gate.
They weren't keen on anyone bowling bouncers after the sad death of one of their batsman.
But now they're happy to hit 40yr old number 11s in the head and keep bouncing him. An hours short pitch bowling against Broad hitting him twice in the head.

[Longsidelenny1882]

tempo upthecolne

[Bordeauxclaret]

They weren't keen on anyone bowling bouncers after the sad death of one of their batsman.
But now they're happy to hit 40yr old number 11s in the head and keep bouncing him. An hours short pitch bowling against Broad hitting him twice in the head.

I’m not sure that’s true.

[Big Vinny K]

It was both valid and justifiable. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have been given out.

It's wildly unsporting and to not warn him or call him back is really poor behaviour. It's a real shame for the game but it's probably put them on course for winning the series.

That wasn’t what I asked.
I said if it was valid and justifiable why is it not attempted every game, several times a game ?

Valid might not be the right word - as by the rules we know that it’s valid….justifiable probably better as in is it justifiable to get someone out using a method that could be used in every single game of cricket many times but players choose not to use or attempt that method ?

Surely if it was justifiable then players would use this all the time - it’s costs them nothing in terms of expending any energy and there’s nothing to lose in terms of what it could cost you ?

[kentonclaret]

At least we know the Aussies are back to winning at all costs attitude.
They pretended to be nice for a while after sandpaper gate.
They weren't keen on anyone bowling bouncers after the sad death of one of their batsman.
But now they're happy to hit 40yr old number 11s in the head and keep bouncing him. An hours short pitch bowling against Broad hitting him twice in the head.

Ollie Robinson in Australia’s Second Innings bowled a 9 overs spell exclusively of bumpers.

[Quickenthetempo]

Ollie Robinson in Australia’s Second Innings bowled a 9 overs spell exclusively of bumpers.

At bowlers? If so he's just as pathetic.

I missed Saturday afternoon as I was watching live cricket.

[Quickenthetempo]

I’m not sure that’s true.

Which bit?

[Bordeauxclaret]

The first bit.

[Big Vinny K]

Graeme Swann just been on Sky news about this … he basically said if that would have happened in Sunday league cricket they would have been fighting on the car park.
He called all the ex captains / pundits etc bottlers for not calling the Aussies out.

Not Swann’s biggest fan but he’s spot on with this. I can’t believe anybody who has played the game at any level thinks this was anything but cheating.

[Firthy]

Graeme Swann just been on Sky news about this … he basically said if that would have happened in Sunday league cricket they would have been fighting on the car park.
He called all the ex captains / pundits etc bottlers for not calling the Aussies out.

Not Swann’s biggest fan but he’s spot on with this. I can’t believe anybody who has played the game at any level thinks this was anything but cheating.

Unfortunately not cheating because it is within the laws of the game. But it absolutely stinks, it is disgusting and the worst case of sportsmanship. It doesn't need comparing to any other incident becuse the incident itself is self explanatory.

[Rick_Muller]

Our response to it is simple.

When batting, after every delivery we need to ask the Aussies whether the ball is dead and then confirm it with the Umpire before meeting in the middle of the wicket for a chat... (when we want to chat that is)

Each and every ball.

Petty, but will get a point across, especially if the Aussies get pulled up for over rate being slow as a result.

[Spijed]

Ollie Robinson in Australia’s Second Innings bowled a 9 overs spell exclusively of bumpers.

Whatever happened to the two bouncers an over rule

[ClaretLoup]

I think there is a parallel to the Bairstow dismissal in football. Consider when an opponent goes down injured and the defending team put the ball into touch. The etiquette is for the opposition to take the throw in and return the ball to the goalie usually and then carry on as per normal.

Haven’t there been occasions in the past when the opposition have not returned the ball and even scored on a couple of occasions? I seem to recollect that on at least one occasion the team who has scored allowing the offended party to walk the ball into the opponent’s net.

The Bairstow situation is one of etiquette rather than rules. He touched his foot down to signify he was off for a yak with Stokes or gardening, not playing a stroke or trying to score a run. Cummins should have withdrawn the appeal and the umpires should have had a word with him.

As for Carey, Broad got it bang on at the time, it will be all he is ever remembered for, i.e. being a grade A jerk.

[kentonclaret]

Graeme Swann just been on Sky news about this … he basically said if that would have happened in Sunday league cricket they would have been fighting on the car park.
He called all the ex captains / pundits etc bottlers for not calling the Aussies out.

Not Swann’s biggest fan but he’s spot on with this. I can’t believe anybody who has played the game at any level thinks this was anything but cheating.

Goes a long way to explaining why Graeme Swann isn’t employed by any of the major broadcasters as a pundit and wants to say something provocative during a 2 minutes slot on Sky News.

[CoolClaret]

Graeme Swann just been on Sky news about this … he basically said if that would have happened in Sunday league cricket they would have been fighting on the car park.
He called all the ex captains / pundits etc bottlers for not calling the Aussies out.

Not Swann’s biggest fan but he’s spot on with this. I can’t believe anybody who has played the game at any level thinks this was anything but cheating.

Swann is absolutely spot on, and why I commented after the stumping that if I was Bairstow I’d be chinning Carey

If there’s anything to be learnt from this is that the Aussies are back to their old ways and tried to lull us in with the ‘buddy buddy’ crap.

[ebby]

Australian PM just posted on his Twitter account ‘Same Old Aussies - Always Winning’

[Spijed]

I know it wasn't thrown very hard but had Carey missed the stumps and the ball gone past a fielder I'll bet Bairstow would have been entitled to run for any additional overthrows.

Would England still have claimed the ball was dead and the end of the over at that point?

[JohnMcGreal]

Swann is absolutely spot on, and why I commented after the stumping that if I was Bairstow I’d be chinning Carey

If there’s anything to be learnt from this is that the Aussies are back to their old ways and tried to lull us in with the ‘buddy buddy’ crap.

So once again, England have shown themselves to be naive. This is top level sport. Not a knockabout on the local green. They need to get a grip of themselves because it's starting to look a bit embarrassing now.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Graeme Swann just been on Sky news about this … he basically said if that would have happened in Sunday league cricket they would have been fighting on the car park.
He called all the ex captains / pundits etc bottlers for not calling the Aussies out.

Not Swann’s biggest fan but he’s spot on with this. I can’t believe anybody who has played the game at any level thinks this was anything but cheating.

If Swann was fighting in the car park he would probably quit halfway through and go home if he was losing

[Spijed]

Petty, but will get a point across, especially if the Aussies get pulled up for over rate being slow as a result.

Apparently England's over rate was far worse in the last test than Australia's.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Missed all this today but from what I've seen, Bairstow got caught out by the same thing he tried to do earlier in this match except the guy he tried to get didn't leave the crease and Bairstow's throw missed.

How about everyone stops trying to cat h each other out and just plays to the "spirit of the game", them we don't get a this crying when one side gets an advantage from it?

Anyway, the most important cricket news today is the names of the MCC toffs who got banned:

20230702_231012.jpg

Looking forward to day 1 this week, should be a decent atmosphere now.

Unfortunately it seems the names were made up.

[quoonbeatz]

Unfortunately it seems the names were made up.

Well this is the worst start to the day imaginable.

[Lancasterclaret]

Going to be funny when the real names come out and they turn out to be even worse

[claretonthecoast1882]

Unfortunately it seems the names were made up.

Thought this was obvious, no way do they have members with only single or double barrelled names in there

[Bordeauxclaret]

Well this is the worst start to the day imaginable.

As pranks go it was certainly believable.

I didn’t doubt it anyway.

[quoonbeatz]

As pranks go it was certainly believable.

I didn’t doubt it anyway.

Can't believe we all trusted the Telegraph.

[jdrobbo]

Despite him playing for the White Rose county, this lad seems to have the lot. He’s going to the very top and for a long time, isn’t he?

Wonderful looking cricketer.

Redemption….LOOKS TO HAVE THE LOT!