Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
We can have more than two loans. It is 2 from UK, so can have more from abroad and I expect that to happen.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
There’d predictable be some tears from his detractors if he got caught in no man’s land 5-6 times a game because he’s trying to catch every cross even though that’s what they want him to be doingboatshed bill wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:58 amThis is correct. The quality and type of crosses (often "whipped" into the most dangerous areas) makes coming for them a bit too open to failure

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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Always the best at the semantics Riley - keep it up….you’ve got your reputation to maintain !!Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:49 amI know, but I didn’t say that was the definition of excellent did I? I said it was a stretch to say that he was excellent towards the end of last season considering some games he literally had nothing to do. Of course he was integral in us being able to beat the press but not every team pressed us, in fact a lot didn’t - Hudds at home for example he was literally a spectator, and there were others.
I think most people would agree that we will be facing a lot more than 3 shots per game next season and it seems to me that the management team feel that we need a keeper that will keep a greater percentage of those goals out of the net. And perhaps they are happy to sacrifice some of Muric’s ability on the ball to strengthen in what may be considered to be the more traditional goalkeeping attributes.
We were the Man City of the Championship and had a goalkeeper to reflect this, but we will be the Burnley of the Premier League - next season is a completely different ball game.
You said that you thought excellent was a stretch and then went on to state a statistic about the average saves a game he had to make. Apologies for adding 2 and 2 together and getting 4.
My point is that his involvement in the game is far more than the saves he makes and if you look at the last third of the season we actually dominated far less games than you would think. Just check out the number of touches and passes Muric was making each game and that is where I think that he was very good or excellent and much improved than in the first dozen or so games.
I think we are probably agreeing on his potential limitations in the PL.
As for Man City yes the similarities are obvious and Ederson will often have only 1 or 2 games to make in many games yet lots of people still refer to him as excellent and an integral part of the city team given he is probably the keeper in the world in terms of his feet and passing ability. Not saying Muric is that but he was miles ahead of anyone in the Championship with his feet.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
If we land 1 or 2 midfield targets I'm not sure how many games Cullen and Brownhill start together. Although they do jobs in different parts of the field, generally their style is similar. They have similar strengths and have similar roles. Cullen tidies up and covers at the back, carrying the ball into midfield. Here Brownhill does a similar supporting role to our front players and was able to score a few in the Championship. Their slight lack of pace didn't cost us last season. I think if we get an attacking midfielder, we might see Brownhill just drop a little deeper to accommodate or drop to the bench. There m8ght even be times where if Cullen doesn't start for whatever reason, Brownhill might deputise. I don't expect Brownhill to score quite as many in the Prem but hopefully he can surprise me on that score.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Cullen and Brownhill very different players. If VK doesn’t start Cullen then that will mean he has brought someone in who can do exactly the same type of job or we have changed our style of play and I can’t see it being the latter. The lad who played for u21s Gomes played a similar type of role as Cullen.Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:31 amIf we land 1 or 2 midfield targets I'm not sure how many games Cullen and Brownhill start together. Although they do jobs in different parts of the field, generally their style is similar. They have similar strengths and have similar roles. Cullen tidies up and covers at the back, carrying the ball into midfield. Here Brownhill does a similar supporting role to our front players and was able to score a few in the Championship. Their slight lack of pace didn't cost us last season. I think if we get an attacking midfielder, we might see Brownhill just drop a little deeper to accommodate or drop to the bench. There m8ght even be times where if Cullen doesn't start for whatever reason, Brownhill might deputise. I don't expect Brownhill to score quite as many in the Prem but hopefully he can surprise me on that score.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Hold on, it’s not semantics to point out when someone misrepresents what I said. I have nowhere claimed that number of saves a keeper makes per match defines how excellent they’ve been. As I said I think it’s a stretch to describe Muric’s performance as excellent last season. In some games his calmness in possession was absolutely key to us beating the press, in other games he wasn’t pressed and basically passed the ball 5 yards to his centre backs under no pressure. In most matches he faced very few shots on target.Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:29 amAlways the best at the semantics Riley - keep it up….you’ve got your reputation to maintain !!
You said that you thought excellent was a stretch and then went on to state a statistic about the average saves a game he had to make. Apologies for adding 2 and 2 together and getting 4.
My point is that his involvement in the game is far more than the saves he makes and if you look at the last third of the season we actually dominated far less games than you would think. Just check out the number of touches and passes Muric was making each game and that is where I think that he was very good or excellent and much improved than in the first dozen or so games.
I think we are probably agreeing on his potential limitations in the PL.
As for Man City yes the similarities are obvious and Ederson will often have only 1 or 2 games to make in many games yet lots of people still refer to him as excellent and an integral part of the city team given he is probably the keeper in the world in terms of his feet and passing ability. Not saying Muric is that but he was miles ahead of anyone in the Championship with his feet.
Someone above mentioned the hyperbole used in the Muric discourse - and I would suggest that describing his performances as excellent is exactly that.
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
He was rated third highest out of all our squad according to the average player ratings for the season. Above Benson, Tella, THB, Brownhill… fair to say most folk had him in the excellent category.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:42 amHold on, it’s not semantics to point out when someone misrepresents what I said. I have nowhere claimed that number of saves a keeper makes per match defines how excellent they’ve been. As I said I think it’s a stretch to describe Muric’s performance as excellent last season. In some games his calmness in possession was absolutely key to us beating the press, in other games he wasn’t pressed and basically passed the ball 5 yards to his centre backs under no pressure. In most matches he faced very few shots on target.
Someone above mentioned the hyperbole used in the Muric discourse - and I would suggest that describing his performances as excellent is exactly that.
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
I’ve just lost the thread but he was one of just 4 players above 7.
Regardless of the actual rating (I expressed my view they were all too low) to be 3rd in what was an outstanding team and season has to be considered excellent surely?
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
I can understand people preferring other goalkeeping styles, thinking he won't be good enough for the upcoming season, predicting Trafford will be better. But last season Muric was excellent/brilliant/important/whichever similar sort of adjective. We're all tapping and scrolling on the internet but this one doesn't require pages of debate.
Could Trafford be an improvement? Sure, I dunno, maybe, possibly, hopefully. But that doesn't lessen how obviously impressive Muric was last season.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
This is what you said :Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:42 amHold on, it’s not semantics to point out when someone misrepresents what I said. I have nowhere claimed that number of saves a keeper makes per match defines how excellent they’ve been. As I said I think it’s a stretch to describe Muric’s performance as excellent last season. In some games his calmness in possession was absolutely key to us beating the press, in other games he wasn’t pressed and basically passed the ball 5 yards to his centre backs under no pressure. In most matches he faced very few shots on target.
Someone above mentioned the hyperbole used in the Muric discourse - and I would suggest that describing his performances as excellent is exactly that.
I think excellent is stretching it a bit to be honest. He made an average of just over 2 saves per game across the season, there were some games towards the end of the season where he barely got within 50 yards of the ball.
Is it really misrepresenting you to think from what you said here that you thought excellent was stretching it because he made only just over 2 saves per game on average ?
Let’s assume that is a rhetorical question since it’s what you actually said.
I don’t recognise what you said about barely getting within 50 yards of the ball in some of the games towards the end of the season. Which games was that ? I can’t remember us dominating that many of the last dozen or so games.
If your definition of excellent is as you are saying more than just the average saves you mention in your original quote which parts of his game did he not excel in after his initial sticky period at the start of the season ?
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
I think Twine could
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
So by the rating criteria he averaged a ‘good’ rating over the season. So again, it’s a stretch to claim that most people had him in the excellent category and then back that up by using ratings which showed him in the good category. Im not particularly sure player ratings are a great barometer either, but you were keen to use this to back your point up.
There’s no point carrying on so I’ll leave it there as people keep challenging my opinion and it’s going round in circles.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
You may need to adjust your thoughts on ratings… 101 points, clear winners of the league and only 4 players scored good…. Sort of identified they are flawedRileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:08 pmSo by the rating criteria he averaged a ‘good’ rating over the season. So again, it’s a stretch to claim that most people had him in the excellent category and then back that up by using ratings which showed him in the good category. Im not particularly sure player ratings are a great barometer either, but you were keen to use this to back your point up.
There’s no point carrying on so I’ll leave it there as people keep challenging my opinion and it’s going round in circles.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
My point is that in many games he didn’t put a foot wrong, but he didn’t have a lot of difficult things to do. So in games where he maybe made one save and wasn’t put under any pressure with the ball, like Huddersfield, I wouldn’t say he was excellent because any number of goalkeepers could have done what he did. Anyway, as above it’s not worth going round in circles any more. I think I’ve explained my point fairly clearly and others are free to disagree.Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:07 pmThis is what you said :
I think excellent is stretching it a bit to be honest. He made an average of just over 2 saves per game across the season, there were some games towards the end of the season where he barely got within 50 yards of the ball.
Is it really misrepresenting you to think from what you said here that you thought excellent was stretching it because he made only just over 2 saves per game on average ?
Let’s assume that is a rhetorical question since it’s what you actually said.
I don’t recognise what you said about barely getting within 50 yards of the ball in some of the games towards the end of the season. Which games was that ? I can’t remember us dominating that many of the last dozen or so games.
If your definition of excellent is as you are saying more than just the average saves you mention in your original quote which parts of his game did he not excel in after his initial sticky period at the start of the season ?
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
I just said that I didn’t think that player ratings were a good barometer which is why I wouldn’t use them to prove a point. RVclaret just said that the player ratings showed that most people thought Muric was excellent when in fact the player ratings actually showed nothing of the sort.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:11 pmYou may need to adjust your thoughts on ratings… 101 points, clear winners of the league and only 4 players scored good…. Sort of identified they are flawed
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Some stats here https://fbref.com/en/comps/10/keepers/C ... ship-Stats
Interestingly, Muric had the best save percentage in the league last year.
Interestingly, Muric had the best save percentage in the league last year.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Well, they did. He was rated 3rd highest in our squad above the likes of Tella and Brownhill (both in the leagues TOTY). If being rated third best in a team that won the league, had the best defence in the league and got 101 points isn’t excellent, then I don’t know what is.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:15 pmI just said that I didn’t think that player ratings were a good barometer which is why I wouldn’t use them to prove a point. RVclaret just said that the player ratings showed that most people thought Muric was excellent when in fact the player ratings actually showed nothing of the sort.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Well no, the scale may be off, but the ranking vs others in the team is consistent. Therefore, if you believe that the team had an excellent season, and the player ratings are actually reasonable in ranking performance - then it puts him in the top performers. If you don't believe they are valuable at all, then you won't.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:15 pmI just said that I didn’t think that player ratings were a good barometer which is why I wouldn’t use them to prove a point. RVclaret just said that the player ratings showed that most people thought Muric was excellent when in fact the player ratings actually showed nothing of the sort.
I believe the former - I've made the point regularly, I've seen players score Hat tricks and get 7's / 8's - it's bizarre.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Yes but regardless of what others thought of Muric, I’m entitled to believe that he wasn’t excellent last season. In terms of the ratings, I feel that Muric has an almost cult like following where every little mistake was over-amplified and every simple catch was over-hyped. I wouldn’t have him anywhere near our third best player of the season.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:21 pmWell no, the scale may be off, but the ranking vs others in the team is consistent. Therefore, if you believe that the team had an excellent season, and the player ratings are actually reasonable in ranking performance - then it puts him in the top performers. If you don't believe they are valuable at all, then you won't.
I believe the former - I've made the point regularly, I've seen players score Hat tricks and get 7's / 8's - it's bizarre.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Where did anyone say you weren’t entitled to believe it?Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:25 pmYes but regardless of what others thought of Muric, I’m entitled to believe that he wasn’t excellent last season. In terms of the ratings, I feel that Muric has an almost cult like following where every little mistake was over-amplified and every simple catch was over-hyped. I wouldn’t have him anywhere near our third best player of the season.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Because he wants competition for every position on the pitch. I'm not second guessing VK here he's said so, many times, in many interviews. He wants players to have to fight to get into the team.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:34 amTbf it looks quite clear that VK agrees with me to some level. Otherwise why would be after another number 1
BPF wasn't providing enough pressure on Muric.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
We are not in desperate need of a LB as long as Charlie Taylor is in the house. A proven PL defensive LB. I’ve heard all the arguments about not suiting VKs style but he came to us as a ball carrying FB.I only wish he could use his right peg. His defensive ability can’t be questioned.martin_p wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:37 amI think we can only judge the Trafford transfer, if the sums being talked about are anywhere near true, in the context on the whole transfer window. As we sit here now, in desperate need of a left back and a striker, spending that much money on a position that didn’t seem a priority seems slightly odd. Of course if we sign players for those priority positions who look as good or better than what we had there last season then all is good, but we won’t know that until the end of August.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
As ever the vehemence of opinions on here masks the fact that several of the opposing views can be held at once.
I think Muric was fantastic for us last season. It’s the first time I can remember enjoying watching a goalkeeper at Burnley. I’ve appreciated the reactive ability of several of goalkeepers before, but Muric was consistently helping get us on the front foot.
That said, it’s entirely possible that VK thinks we need (and can get) a better version of Muric. It’s also possible that he just wants two very strong GKs, because in my view there was undoubtedly a drop off to BPF in terms of his ability to breaks lines last season.
As for the fee for Trafford, it’s 2023 and he’s a highly rated English U21 international who has seemingly just cemented his reputation in Georgia. It’s ok to be excited by the signing AND be surprised we’re paying so much for him.
I think Muric was fantastic for us last season. It’s the first time I can remember enjoying watching a goalkeeper at Burnley. I’ve appreciated the reactive ability of several of goalkeepers before, but Muric was consistently helping get us on the front foot.
That said, it’s entirely possible that VK thinks we need (and can get) a better version of Muric. It’s also possible that he just wants two very strong GKs, because in my view there was undoubtedly a drop off to BPF in terms of his ability to breaks lines last season.
As for the fee for Trafford, it’s 2023 and he’s a highly rated English U21 international who has seemingly just cemented his reputation in Georgia. It’s ok to be excited by the signing AND be surprised we’re paying so much for him.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Certainly not the 3rd best playerRileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:25 pmYes but regardless of what others thought of Muric, I’m entitled to believe that he wasn’t excellent last season. In terms of the ratings, I feel that Muric has an almost cult like following where every little mistake was over-amplified and every simple catch was over-hyped. I wouldn’t have him anywhere near our third best player of the season.
Shows how bonkers the rating threads are
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
This thread has clearly had a tough weekend.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
It would help soften the opinions if people could take some responsibility for how their words could be interpreted.agreenwood wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:04 pmAs ever the vehemence of opinions on here masks the fact that several of the opposing views can be held at once.
I don’t think people are too far apart on Muric actually
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
VK likes his full backs to occupy a variety of areas of the pitch during 90 mins, including popping up narrow between the lines. You’ve got to be a strong technical player to use the ball in more congested areas. Taylor might be capable of playing the more traditional attacking full back role (overlapping the winger), but I’m not sure he’s suited to the more varied role VK is looking for.Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:53 pmWe are not in desperate need of a LB as long as Charlie Taylor is in the house. A proven PL defensive LB. I’ve heard all the arguments about not suiting VKs style but he came to us as a ball carrying FB.I only wish he could use his right peg. His defensive ability can’t be questioned.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Is there still a regulation in the PL that means squads have to have a certain number of "home-grown" players? Not something that until recently would have been an issue for us, but if that's still the case it can often be a reason for a player's purchase price being a few million more than expected, as in Trafford's case? Just a thought.
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
No argument with your point but this is the PL and players that can be all that at this level are out of our price range. BTW I don’t think Maatsen is the answer.agreenwood wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:09 pmVK likes his full backs to occupy a variety of areas of the pitch during 90 mins, including popping up narrow between the lines. You’ve got to be a strong technical player to use the ball in more congested areas. Taylor might be capable of playing the more traditional attacking full back role (overlapping the winger), but I’m not sure he’s suited to the more varied role VK is looking for.
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Obviously Trafford is higher potential and going to become better than Muric. You can also argue that Muric indeed played an excellent season, therefore it might be a good time to sell him for 6-7 m.
He's really good but maybe not good enough to be a match winner in de PL. Which Trafford obviously can become. We are going to need an outstanding shot stopper as we will be the weaker team most of the games. Kompany is aiming for profiles which he is sure are up to the task of playing against world class players.
It's hopeful to see that even for the goalkeeper position they are aiming high, which makes me curious about who our strikers will be. On the midfield I'm looking out for Vranckx and Sambi Lokoga. Though it could might as well be a surprise, Trafford also came out of the blue after weeks of going after Verbruggen.
Any way I trust Vinnie and the Burnley recruitment staff. Whatever happens to Muric, I hope he stays, but if he leaves I wish him all the best and I would understand his choice 100%. Also for Burnley's transfer and wage budget it would be a good thing to make a move.
He's really good but maybe not good enough to be a match winner in de PL. Which Trafford obviously can become. We are going to need an outstanding shot stopper as we will be the weaker team most of the games. Kompany is aiming for profiles which he is sure are up to the task of playing against world class players.
It's hopeful to see that even for the goalkeeper position they are aiming high, which makes me curious about who our strikers will be. On the midfield I'm looking out for Vranckx and Sambi Lokoga. Though it could might as well be a surprise, Trafford also came out of the blue after weeks of going after Verbruggen.
Any way I trust Vinnie and the Burnley recruitment staff. Whatever happens to Muric, I hope he stays, but if he leaves I wish him all the best and I would understand his choice 100%. Also for Burnley's transfer and wage budget it would be a good thing to make a move.
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
You were 100% on one of the THB topics during the season doubting his potential and negatively listing his flawsNewcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 11:24 amDon’t think I’ve ever slagged off THB or Maatsen
If you read what I said you would see I haven’t slagged off Tella. I said I wouldn’t mind signing him but similar to RV I think we can get a couple of players in for the same cost.
Ironically I have also said that Foster has been poor. So your points don’t really make sense
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
I access this thread on occasion to check as to whether we’ve made any signings and all I find are conflicting opinions and arguments. Can someone come up with something of substance?
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
You want someone on here to sign a player?dermotdermot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 2:26 pmI access this thread on occasion to check as to whether we’ve made any signings and all I find are conflicting opinions and arguments. Can someone come up with something of substance?
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Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
The official burnley fc site is the one to check whether we’ve made any signings.dermotdermot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 2:26 pmI access this thread on occasion to check as to whether we’ve made any signings and all I find are conflicting opinions and arguments. Can someone come up with something of substance?
As soon as they have signed it’s on there.
This is the wrong thread to pour through looking for confirmed signings. But given its title it doesn’t profess to be.
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
I don't get the obsessions with wasting 5 pages of a transfer thread slagging of Muric or justifying him leaving if Trafford comes in.
All that is pertinent to this thread is the fact Trafford is or isn't joining us.
All that is pertinent to this thread is the fact Trafford is or isn't joining us.
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
Couple of rumours that seem to be doing the rounds locally.
Andros Townsend is training with us
Cole Palmer season long loan
Andros Townsend is training with us
Cole Palmer season long loan
Re: Summer transfer window 2023 - rumours, links and discussion.
May have been mentioned and not Burnley but saw Ashley Young linked to Everton. Dunno the legitimacy of it but Dyche almost signed Young for Burnley so could be likely. Everton fans cockahoop about it.