Ashes third test

[TheFamilyCat]

Stokes first innings saved us then a big one from Brook today.

Do have to wonder if Bairstow will get another chance after this.

Great win and good to see Woakes and Wood knock the last few off. Thought it was going to get twitchy when Brook was home but they saw it out fairly comfortably.

There's no way Bairstow gets dropped if Stokes isn't fit to bowl.

[jdrobbo]

Harry Brook-feel dirty for saying it but he’s a huge future in the game!! Wonderful talent

[Newcastleclaret93]

Harry Brook-feel dirty for saying it but he’s a huge future in the game!! Wonderful talent

We have some fantastic young players in an around the international set up.

I would like to think James Rew (who looks our most promising prospect) and Hain are close to breaking through to the starting eleven.

[123EasyasBFC]

Tough call for who bats 3 at OT, brook looks so much more comfortable at 5.

Has to be Bairstow and Robinson out for foakes and Anderson at OT

[Newcastleclaret93]

Tough call for who bats 3 at OT, brook looks so much more comfortable at 5.

Has to be Bairstow and Robinson out for foakes and Anderson at OT

This is how I would set us up for the next test:

Crawley
Duckett
Hain
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Anderson

It gives us our best bowling line up whilst also strengthening the batting line up.

[TheFamilyCat]

Tough call for who bats 3 at OT, brook looks so much more comfortable at 5.

Has to be Bairstow and Robinson out for foakes and Anderson at OT

I don't think for one minute that Bairstow will be dropped. I don't even think that Foakes will be picked to give them that decision to make.

I think they'll persevere with Ali at 3 to keep Brook at 5. I'm not convinced it's the best option but it does keep Root & Brook in their best positions.

[TheFamilyCat]

This is how I would set us up for the next test:

Crawley
Duckett
Hain
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Anderson

It gives us our best bowling line up whilst also strengthening the batting line up.

Only four bowlers and no spinner? This isn't the 1980's West Indies.

[dandeclaret]

**** me you lot love a good panic.

Most convincing win of the 3.

This thread has hot take, after hot take…. Latest one being apparently England are totally inferior to the world test champions…. Or some lad not ever in the England radar should be in following a couple of decent innings….. But the score in this serious could be any score between 3-0 and 0-3, as there have been 3 excellent, tight test matches.

[CoolClaret]

Desperately need to find a number 3 and to drop Bairstow -

May as well call Buttler up and put him there, two birds one stone and all that.

[Guppyspotter]

The key to test match cricket has always been keeping focussed. England seem to be unable to do this with the bat. Yes this aggressive approach is entertaining but without the ability to be composed and play every ball on its' merits and that includes knowing where the fielders are then it just becomes 20/20 with unlimited overs. You can do it in 20/20 because you need runs and the wickets don't usually matter as both sides only have to make them last for 120 balls.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

There is no way Bairstow will be dropped whether it seems the obvious decision to play Foakes.

[dandeclaret]

The key to test matches is winning….. something this team have been brilliant at for the last 18 months or so…. Doing it their way. I think they’ve got enough credit to overrule the mass panickers on here.

[123EasyasBFC]

This is how I would set us up for the next test:

Crawley
Duckett
Hain
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Anderson

It gives us our best bowling line up whilst also strengthening the batting line up.

Good lineup if they make a batting change they are likely to go with Lawrence aren’t they

[nil_desperandum]

I don't think for one minute that Bairstow will be dropped. I don't even think that Foakes will be picked to give them that decision to make.

I think they'll persevere with Ali at 3 to keep Brook at 5. I'm not convinced it's the best option but it does keep Root & Brook in their best positions.

They'll definitely play Ali. He has a bowling average of just 18 at Old Trafford, and arguably he made a decisive contribution in this test by getting both Labuschagne and Smith at a critical time.
It seems clear that they won't drop Bairstow.
Given that neither Bairstow nor Ali are making many runs at 7 we may as well try one or the other at 3, so as not to disturb the middle order as you say.
Root doesn't seem to mind when he bats so long as it's at No.4!

[fatboy47]

I guess the price we pay for winning is that the selectors will feel enabled to stick with the incompetent Bairstow.

It stinks in all honesty...without doubt an old pals thing.

I won't care if we win though.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Good lineup if they make a batting change they are likely to go with Lawrence aren’t they

More than likely but Hain is the most in form batter in the country at the moment.

I would even be tempted to put James Rew in as Keeper (all though he is only 19) it might be too early for him

[Newcastleclaret93]

Only four bowlers and no spinner? This isn't the 1980's West Indies.

I was listening to the bbc sport commentary and they think Old Trafford will swing and Seam but potentially not spin.
I was thinking root could be the spinner

[dandeclaret]

I guess the price we pay for winning is that the selectors will feel enabled to stick with the incompetent Bairstow.

It stinks in all honesty...without doubt an old pals thing.

I won't care if we win though.

I’m not a Bairstow fan by any stretch, but his form pre injury, in this side was incredible. That key contribution to a pretty unheralded 12 test match wins in 13 or whatever it was, gives him licence to have a few poor innings with the bat. Keeping however is a very different issue.

[nil_desperandum]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I reckon we lose this game if Australia have the reliable Nathan Lyon to tie up one ned and chip in with a few wickets. Murphy couldn't do that.
251 in those conditions is quite a challenge but the absence of Lyon made it simpler.

[Ampth7]

We have some fantastic young players in an around the international set up.

I would like to think James Rew (who looks our most promising prospect) and Hain are close to breaking through to the starting eleven.

Agree. My son played against James Rew’s younger brother in Taunton last Thursday, and by all accounts he’s ahead of where his older brother was at that age a few years ago. He went on to score a retired 50 in 5 overs! Maybe we will see two brothers in an England team in the near future?

[dandeclaret]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I reckon we lose this game if Australia have the reliable Nathan Lyon to tie up one ned and chip in with a few wickets. Murphy couldn't do that.
251 in those conditions is quite a challenge but the absence of Lyon made it simpler.

As the absence of Archer, Leach et Al has made it easier for Australia….

[ClaretTony]

Missed the business end today having gone to the Lancs League at Tod. Will watch the highlights but what a good result.

[123EasyasBFC]

More than likely but Hain is the most in form batter in the country at the moment.

I would even be tempted to put James Rew in as Keeper (all though he is only 19) it might be too early for him

Lawrence was in the initial squad for this test so I would say he would be more likely than Hain

[Newcastleclaret93]

Agree. My son played against James Rew’s younger brother in Taunton last Thursday, and by all accounts he’s ahead of where his older brother was at that age a few years ago. He went on to score a retired 50 in 5 overs! Maybe we will see two brothers in an England team in the near future?

Wow that would be pretty special.

I only now about Rew from the u19 World Cup. But from the sounds of it he’s really come in to his own this year. I believe he’s the top scoring batsmen in the county championship with 761 runs this season. Not bad at all for a 19 year old

[nil_desperandum]

As the absence of Archer, Leach et Al has made it easier for Australia….

Well that's true to some extent, but the freak injury to Lyon during play in the last test might turn out to be a turning point.
(I don't think we've missed Leach at all)

[criminalclaret]

The key to test match cricket has always been keeping focussed. England seem to be unable to do this with the bat. Yes this aggressive approach is entertaining but without the ability to be composed and play every ball on its' merits and that includes knowing where the fielders are then it just becomes 20/20 with unlimited overs. You can do it in 20/20 because you need runs and the wickets don't usually matter as both sides only have to make them last for 120 balls.

Agree with this wholeheartedly

[dandeclaret]

Agree with this wholeheartedly

Just out of interest…. What is the record of England since they took on this approach?


And what was it before that?

I’ll save you looking…. Won 13 in 16 now….. Versus won 1 in 17

It’s madness to keep chipping away at it, they’re not going to change, they’re getting massively positive results…. Long maybit continue.

[Ampth7]

Wow that would be pretty special.

I only now about Rew from the u19 World Cup. But from the sounds of it he’s really come in to his own this year. I believe he’s the top scoring batsmen in the county championship with 761 runs this season. Not bad at all for a 19 year old

A very talented bat scoring runs for fun down here for Somerset. He was at the game supporting his younger brother who as I say, is also a very good young player and who the locals reckon he’s even better than his older brother at that age! Time will tell if he can also make the considerable jump up to County level.

[ChrisG]

More than likely but Hain is the most in form batter in the country at the moment.

I would even be tempted to put James Rew in as Keeper (all though he is only 19) it might be too early for him

Hain is somewhat skewed by the 165* as he's only played 8 innings. Rew looks an excellent prospect though.

[dandeclaret]

For all those thinking it’s one sided, or England aren’t competing, or can’t compete with the Aussies….

[criminalclaret]

Just out of interest…. What is the record of England since they took on this approach?


And what was it before that?

I’ll save you looking…. Won 13 in 16 now….. Versus won 1 in 17

It’s madness to keep chipping away at it, they’re not going to change, they’re getting massively positive results…. Long maybit continue.

Your a BazBall junkie and it's hooked into your veins. I respect that, we have different opinions

I've said repeatly it's about balance on when and how to be agressive. I think England choice to be agressive in the field at key sessions has been fantastic. The times they have chosen to do it with the bat have not been. I just cannot disguise bad and braindead shot selection when under the umbrella of "new ethos attacking batting tactics" and shrug my shoulders.

One standout moment for me Duckett in the second test getting caught on from a terrible shot on 98. Pundits after the game asked him what it must have felt like to miss out on his maiden Test century at Lord's. He said "no regrets about the shot at all". And I'm just there scratching my head thinking, why would you not have any regrets about that shot? Superb knock but it was dribble selection and nobody would crisitise him if he said "yeah that was silly wasn't it"

That's what I don't get with this approach, it seems to just rule out playing shots with common sense at times.

[NottsClaret]

Not read the whole thread but agree with dande. We’re a bit unlucky to be 2-1 down to the best test team in the world and could yet win the series. Our form is unbelievable over the last year or so, people who don’t like cricket are suddenly watching cricket, kids all over the country have new heroes to aspire to..

and some joyless curmudgeons are still whining that it’s all too entertaining. I wish we’d played like this for the last 20 years, whether we win 3-2 or lose 1-4.

[summitclaret]

The key to test match cricket has always been keeping focussed. England seem to be unable to do this with the bat. Yes this aggressive approach is entertaining but without the ability to be composed and play every ball on its' merits and that includes knowing where the fielders are then it just becomes 20/20 with unlimited overs. You can do it in 20/20 because you need runs and the wickets don't usually matter as both sides only have to make them last for 120 balls.

Your correct. However, I don’t find England's batting in this series entertaining. It's very frustrating. In 2020 your have about 75 minutes to bat and wickets aren't that important. In tests you should be batting for at least a day in the first 2 innings. To do that needs ability to play straight and choose the right balls to hit hard.

[Rileybobs]

Your a BazBall junkie and it's hooked into your veins. I respect that, we have different opinions

I've said repeatly it's about balance on when and how to be agressive. I think England choice to be agressive in the field at key sessions has been fantastic. The times they have chosen to do it with the bat have not been. I just cannot disguise bad and braindead shot selection when under the umbrella of "new ethos attacking batting tactics" and shrug my shoulders.

One standout moment for me Duckett in the second test getting caught on from a terrible shot on 98. Pundits after the game asked him what it must have felt like to miss out on his maiden Test century at Lord's. He said "no regrets about the shot at all". And I'm just there scratching my head thinking, why would you not have any regrets about that shot? Superb knock but it was dribble selection and nobody would crisitise him if he said "yeah that was silly wasn't it"

That's what I don't get with this approach, it seems to just rule out playing shots with common sense at times.

Interesting point that, because you’re suggesting that someone should play differently when on 98 than say 102, which would only be for their personal benefit than the team’s. Maybe this team is more concerned with collective glory than individual accolades.

[dandeclaret]

Your a BazBall junkie and it's hooked into your veins. I respect that, we have different opinions

I've said repeatly it's about balance on when and how to be agressive. I think England choice to be agressive in the field at key sessions has been fantastic. The times they have chosen to do it with the bat have not been. I just cannot disguise bad and braindead shot selection when under the umbrella of "new ethos attacking batting tactics" and shrug my shoulders.

One standout moment for me Duckett in the second test getting caught on from a terrible shot on 98. Pundits after the game asked him what it must have felt like to miss out on his maiden Test century at Lord's. He said "no regrets about the shot at all". And I'm just there scratching my head thinking, why would you not have any regrets about that shot? Superb knock but it was dribble selection and nobody would crisitise him if he said "yeah that was silly wasn't it"

That's what I don't get with this approach, it seems to just rule out playing shots with common sense at times.

Repeatedly your balance can be boiled down to I like the aggressive play, but not the bits where they get out. They’re 2 sides of the same coin.

[Ric_C]

If England can start taking their chances a bit better, and get a bit of luck with injuries, we've half a chance.

Bairstow needs dropping, I feel for him, but his costly drops are now affecting his confidence in his batting. His decent form last year, was when he played as a batsmen only.

For OT I'd go with:

Duckett
Crawley
Brook
Root
Stokes
Foakes
Ali
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Anderson

But I think they will just rest Robinson and bring in Jimmy

[Rileybobs]

I think if we accept that Australia have a stronger team then us then why would we go toe to toe with them at their own game? I don’t think we would have chased down that score today with a more conservative approach and the scoreboard pressure building.

[quoonbeatz]

I'm loving it. Can't wait for Old Trafford now. Cheers.

[dandeclaret]

I'm loving it. Can't wait for Old Trafford now. Cheers.

I read that you were buying pints for all those attending who were further than a tram ride away.... how do I claim my beers on Saturday?

[quoonbeatz]

I read that you were buying pints for all those attending who were further than a tram ride away.... how do I claim my beers on Saturday?

Ts and Cs clearly state I have to be present but we can make an exception.

I'll leave one by the nets on Thursday, should be fine.

[criminalclaret]

Repeatedly your balance can be boiled down to I like the aggressive play, but not the bits where they get out. They’re 2 sides of the same coin.

You're just cherry picking semantics for a quick point now, which is a shame as I have been enjoying a relatively decent debate so far.

You can be agressive and not thoughtless. The two aren't direct trade offs.

[Bordeauxclaret]

It’s been an amazing series so far.


Enjoy it.

[wrj20]

If Stokes knee has a week to recover to bowl 10 overs per innings, I’d go with:

Duckett
Bairstow
Crawley
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Ali
Woakes
Wood
Anderson

Serious batting depth, Crawley made his double century from no. 3, Bairstow opens in ODIs which is similar enough to Bazball to give it a try

[Newcastleclaret93]

If Stokes knee has a week to recover to bowl 10 overs per innings, I’d go with:

Duckett
Bairstow
Crawley
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Ali
Woakes
Wood
Anderson

Serious batting depth, Crawley made his double century from no. 3, Bairstow opens in ODIs which is similar enough to Bazball to give it a try

For context Crawley and Duckett currently have the second best opening average in English history. 49.88 is only second to strauss and Trescothic

[Roosterbooster]

Superb series so far. Not going this year, but was at Old Trafford last time round. Was planning on going again next time round.

But just found out 2027 Ashes will completely bypass the North. Shocking

[timshorts]

Another great Test match at Headingley. Absolute joke that both Headingley and OT miss out next time. Two tests in London and one in Southampton out of 5 is poor.

Should move the one from lords as a penalty for the entitled ones behaving badly last test. Given that England have a poor record at the place, it would be a decent move.

That won't happen unless one of Manchester or Leeds would turn over more money - and there would be uproar from the red and yellow tie brigade. Most of that lot think that there is a match scheduled in the North at trent bridge. These are the same sort of people that think Watford Junction is on the m25 near the chalfonts.

[timshorts]

This is how I would set us up for the next test:

Crawley
Duckett
Hain
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Anderson

It gives us our best bowling line up whilst also strengthening the batting line up.

I always preferred vokes at 9 to wood.

[Lancasterclaret]

Been on the fells all day but what a good win

[timshorts]

Superb series so far. Not going this year, but was at Old Trafford last time round. Was planning on going again next time round.

But just found out 2027 Ashes will completely bypass the North. Shocking

Probably more shocking if you live on the isle of wight. Is that now part of France or can we claim it for Wales given that Sophia gardens has been removed too?

[fatboy47]

This is how I would set us up for the next test:

Crawley
Duckett
Hain
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Wood
Broad
Anderson

It gives us our best bowling line up whilst also strengthening the batting line up.

Decent selection if the pitch is going to remain fairly straight. Otherwise it has to be Ali at 3.