Football's Magic Money Tree

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Paul Waine
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:24 pm

UKEF Annual Report and Accounts 2022-23 - published 28 June 2023.

Extract (page 37)

UK export development

Larger corporate exporters have replicated the success of the General Export Facility in supporting SMEs by using UKEF’s Export Development Guarantee. It has allowed UKEF to expand its support beyond its traditional customer base of manufacturers, with support for e-commerce provider The Hut Group, football club Wolverhampton Wanderers and multimedia firm Future Plc. This is in addition to continued support for car manufacturers, with further support for Ford Plc. Total support under Export Development Guarantee facilities was £3.3 billion in 2022-23.


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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:40 pm

Barcelona announce the signing of wonderkid dubbed 'the new Ronaldo' https://mol.im/a/12291881 via https://dailym.ai/android

Signed him to an 8yr deal.....
Didn't they cry when Chelsea were doing similar?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:50 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 7:40 pm
Barcelona announce the signing of wonderkid dubbed 'the new Ronaldo' https://mol.im/a/12291881 via https://dailym.ai/android

Signed him to an 8yr deal.....
Didn't they cry when Chelsea were doing similar?
Barcelona's issue with Chelsea was the 8 year amortisation - La Liga only allowed 5 years - UEFA has now harmonised 5 years across the continent as of last week - so it is a level playing field again going forward
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ClaretPete001
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:04 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:02 pm
The interesting thing about that - besides the requirement for £99m of cashflow funding (which is over 50% of annual revenue (and very cheap to borrow) is that it is Fosun who have provided the security. Wolves are far more developed in the esports arena with a Chinese based/targeted team

we still do not know for certain the security (and indeed the source) of that £39.7m refinancing of the MSD loan in November 2022
It's utterly insane for the Gov't to spend taxpayer's money funding cashflow and operational costs. Especially a sum more than half the annual revenue of a company.

What investor would ever do that with an established business? What happens when the £99 million is gone and the company requires more cashflow. And more to the point what will that money generate for the taxpayer, which the PL isn't generating anyway?

The current Tory Gov't have spent ten years effectively starving the economy of growth and productivity with their austerity packages and they now seem to be emulating the ideas of Labour's in the 1970s.

From Osbourne's ludicrous austerity nonsense to Liz Truss madness to Rishi's incoherence the Tories can hardly claim to be the party for the economy.

Albeit they could claim to be the party for parties....!

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:32 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:04 pm
It's utterly insane for the Gov't to spend taxpayer's money funding cashflow and operational costs. Especially a sum more than half the annual revenue of a company.

What investor would ever do that with an established business? What happens when the £99 million is gone and the company requires more cashflow. And more to the point what will that money generate for the taxpayer, which the PL isn't generating anyway?
Hi Pete, Wolves' £99m UK Export Finance/ECGD loan isn't "the Gov't spending taxpayers' money." Take a look at the ECGD annual report and accounts, you will see that ECGD makes money for the British taxpayers.

ECGD, banks and other financial institutions are in the business of lending money to established business to fund "cashflow and operational costs." Yes, at first site it appears a little odd that ECGD is lending money to Wolves because some of the Premier League tv money is earned by selling Premier League games to be broadcast in foreign markets. But, that's what the ECGD exists for - and has existed for for many years. Certainly, ECGD was around in the 1970s when I first came across them. As the quote I posted above from the ECGD annual report shows, the ECGD has been keen to broaden their customer base. Wolves fits into this broader customer base.

Many investors also provide capital to the firms they have invested in, including new equity through rights issues. There was a thread on this mb not many days ago about Thames Water raising funds from their shareholders.

PS: I didn't include your politics comments. I don't think they fit with the ethos of this MMT thread.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:33 am

It is not like we didn't know it already

English clubs lost almost £1bn in one season, report reveals
Analysis of all 92 clubs reveals alarming instability across professional leagues

https://archive.is/yZOpS#selection-789.0-793.81

The above article from the Times is based on the findings of this report


https://www.lcp.com/media/1150389/creat ... ce=website

it has been created by LCP Analytics (https://www.lcp.com/technology-analytics/football/) who earlier this year joined up with Fairgame to create the Football Sustainability Index (https://www.lcp.com/media-centre/2023/0 ... ity-index/)

as with all these types of reports there are issues but it can help you though a wet summers afternoon - here is the thing in full

Creating a sustainable future for football
The financial sustainability of men's football clubs in the English league pyramid
July 2023

https://www.lcp.com/media/1150389/creat ... ce=website

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:46 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:32 pm
and then there were two

European Super League: Juventus signal intention to quit project
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65828703
The Guardian is reporting that Juventus have begun talks with Barcelona and Real Madrid about leaving the super League organisation

Juventus start talks with Barça and Real Madrid to leave European Super League
Italian club ‘has initiated the procedure to exit’ breakaway
Any departure would need to be authorised by Spanish giants

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... per-league
https://archive.is/i02ub

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:15 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:32 am
Hi Pete, Wolves' £99m UK Export Finance/ECGD loan isn't "the Gov't spending taxpayers' money." Take a look at the ECGD annual report and accounts, you will see that ECGD makes money for the British taxpayers.

ECGD, banks and other financial institutions are in the business of lending money to established business to fund "cashflow and operational costs." Yes, at first site it appears a little odd that ECGD is lending money to Wolves because some of the Premier League tv money is earned by selling Premier League games to be broadcast in foreign markets. But, that's what the ECGD exists for - and has existed for for many years. Certainly, ECGD was around in the 1970s when I first came across them. As the quote I posted above from the ECGD annual report shows, the ECGD has been keen to broaden their customer base. Wolves fits into this broader customer base.

Many investors also provide capital to the firms they have invested in, including new equity through rights issues. There was a thread on this mb not many days ago about Thames Water raising funds from their shareholders.

PS: I didn't include your politics comments. I don't think they fit with the ethos of this MMT thread.
Hi Paul, the politics of it is important.

The UK Export Finance loan is tax payer funded. It's primary aim is to: "advance prosperity by ensuring no viable UK export fails for lack of finance or insurance, doing that sustainably and at no net cost to the taxpayer".

What prosperity does it add to UK PLC to give a company cashflow to meet operating costs equivalent to over half it's revenue?

The productivity of UK PLC has slumped in the last 13 years and is largely recognised as the consequence of George Osbourne's austerity politics and this does little or nothing to deal with that problem. A problem, which leads to lower wages, diminishing consumer demand at the same time as global factors are driving up inflation.

What good does it do Wolves to have over half of it's operating cost funded by taxpayer debt? It drives up inflation in the football marketplace and should that funding dry up could lead clubs to have financial problems because the fundamental business business model they operate on becomes dependent upon it.

The investment should be in green industries, data, AI and companies that require cashflow to grow not football clubs that spend it on funding intangible assets they cannot afford from organic revenue and won't contribute to any growth other than inflation in the player marketplace, which then drives up the need for more debt.

Low growth/recession combined with with inflation is exactly what contributed to this country earning the sick man of Europe tag in the 1970s.

If you can name one good reason that Wolves should receive nearly a £100 million in tax payer funded debt as opposed to companies engaged in the green economy, AI, big data, innovative health care, affordable pharma for emerging nations etc then I'll be amazed.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 14, 2023 11:13 am

this is interesting because it also looks at things like a single global distribution deal for the Premier League - by Adam Crafton for The Athletic

Apple, Lionel Messi and the $2.5bn question: What’s next?
https://archive.is/RiUId

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:46 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:15 am
Hi Paul, the politics of it is important.

The UK Export Finance loan is tax payer funded. It's primary aim is to: "advance prosperity by ensuring no viable UK export fails for lack of finance or insurance, doing that sustainably and at no net cost to the taxpayer".
Hi Pete, I'm reluctant to engage in a discussion that involves politics.

You've quoted from UK Export Finance statement: "advance prosperity by ensuring no viable UK export fails for lack of finance or insurance, doing that sustainably and at no net cost to the taxpayer"

Do you understand what the words I've placed in bold and underlined mean? "No net cost" means "no net cost..."

"UK Export Finance / ECGD was established in 1919 as the world's first export credit agency. UKEF helps exporters access finance and insurance when there is a lack of private sector risk appetite of capacity. UKEF provides government assistance to exporters and investors, principally in the form of insurance policies and guarantees of bank loans."

I wonder if UKEF is the answer to the £39.7 million loan that BFC took out in November 2022 when the MSD loan was repaid? If UKEF is guaranteeing the £39.7 million loan it may explain why no security charge has been filed at Companies House... Just a thought, nothing more.

I've looked at Wolverhampton Wanderers FC (1986) and W.W. (1990) accounts, both to 31st May 2022. There's nothing in the accounts, including "events after balance sheet date" that indicates the UKEF £99 million financial support. whether loan, guarantee of bank debt or insurance exists. Nor is there a security charge filed on either set of accounts that relates to UKEF.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:42 pm

FFP is starting to bite across Europe and even in the Premier League

Manchester United fined €300,000 by Uefa for financial fair play breaches
Fine relates to breaches over a four-year period from 2019
United describe it as ‘a minor break-even deficit’

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... y-breaches
https://archive.is/wP2PR

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:01 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:46 pm
Hi Pete, I'm reluctant to engage in a discussion that involves politics.

You've quoted from UK Export Finance statement: "advance prosperity by ensuring no viable UK export fails for lack of finance or insurance, doing that sustainably and at no net cost to the taxpayer"

Do you understand what the words I've placed in bold and underlined mean? "No net cost" means "no net cost..."

"UK Export Finance / ECGD was established in 1919 as the world's first export credit agency. UKEF helps exporters access finance and insurance when there is a lack of private sector risk appetite of capacity. UKEF provides government assistance to exporters and investors, principally in the form of insurance policies and guarantees of bank loans."

I wonder if UKEF is the answer to the £39.7 million loan that BFC took out in November 2022 when the MSD loan was repaid? If UKEF is guaranteeing the £39.7 million loan it may explain why no security charge has been filed at Companies House... Just a thought, nothing more.

I've looked at Wolverhampton Wanderers FC (1986) and W.W. (1990) accounts, both to 31st May 2022. There's nothing in the accounts, including "events after balance sheet date" that indicates the UKEF £99 million financial support. whether loan, guarantee of bank debt or insurance exists. Nor is there a security charge filed on either set of accounts that relates to UKEF.
Fair point to ignore the politics. It's indulgent of me to mention it.

Saying that I think it's ridiculous for the tax payer to be funding £100 million to Wolverhampton Wanderers and there are costs as I describe above not least there is clearly a very large amount of money funding pointless projects when it could be funding great projects.

However, I agree Burnley may well have benefitted from such a loan and at a much more advantageous rate than the one from MSD.

And yes I am hypocritical enough to rejoice in that but fundamentally it's a pointless waste of taxpayers money.

Politics aside, I think we can all agree on that....!

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:12 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:35 pm
In January this year I wrote an article for the London Clarets Magazine 'Something to write home about' called 'Custodians no more' whose central premise was that football club owners and those who run the the fans of the club games operating bodies were no longer custodians of the game we once took them to be - you can find a the online to it here https://twitter.com/LondonClarets/statu ... 7467284491

In a new blog piece Martin Calladine (known as @UglyGame on twitter) has used the fans of the club he supports (Reading) as a metaphor for what he sees as a modern complicity in the the end of custodianship in the beautiful game - he makes a strong case

Cheering on our own ruin
After a tumultuous few years, Reading have been relegated, run up huge debts, don’t own their own stadium and have yet another points deduction coming down the line. But who’s willing to take responsibility?
https://theuglygame.wordpress.com/2023/ ... -own-ruin/
https://archive.is/b8mvP
The Guardian looks at the plight of Reading (even though they have got their CAT 1 status back for the Academy) as they prepare for life in League 1

A right Royals mess: Reading paying heavy price for rolling the dice
Relegated men have threadbare squad and may be docked points and women’s team, also demoted, are now part-time

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -part-time
https://archive.is/n4irG

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Father Jack » Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:09 pm

We got $400k for Wout, Anass and Conor playing in the World Cup
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:43 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:01 pm
Fair point to ignore the politics. It's indulgent of me to mention it.

Saying that I think it's ridiculous for the tax payer to be funding £100 million to Wolverhampton Wanderers and there are costs as I describe above not least there is clearly a very large amount of money funding pointless projects when it could be funding great projects.

However, I agree Burnley may well have benefitted from such a loan and at a much more advantageous rate than the one from MSD.

And yes I am hypocritical enough to rejoice in that but fundamentally it's a pointless waste of taxpayers money.

Politics aside, I think we can all agree on that....!
I worry about you, Pete. Don't you understand the words "at no net cost to the taxpayer?" Whatever UKEF is doing it apparently isn't wasting any taxpayers money. Yes, that is very possibly unusual for a government agency. However, that's what they say and, I guess, in one form or another, that's what they've been saying since ECGD was formed in 1919.

All major countries have Export Credit Agencies (ECAs). There are also a number of multi-lateral rules governing the activities of ECAs, including what they can do and what they can't do.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:43 pm

The Athletic looks at that Wolves loan

Explained: How opportunistic Wolves secured a £99m government loan
https://archive.is/5B2ZP

I am reasonably sure that this is not how Burnley got its November 2022 loan for £39.7m
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:52 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:43 pm
The Athletic looks at that Wolves loan

Explained: How opportunistic Wolves secured a £99m government loan
https://archive.is/5B2ZP

I am reasonably sure that this is not how Burnley got its November 2022 loan for £39.7m
Good link, CP.

Good to see that Kieran Maguire, except a few details, reflects my views.

Where do he and I differ?

1) The UKEF loan is not reported in W.W (1990) 31st May 2022 financial report, so we can be confident that the loan was taken out sometime after 31st May 2022. Interestingly it doesn't merit a mention in Wolves "Events after Balance Sheet date (unless I've missed it).

2) I'd be surprised if the interest rate is as low as the 3% to 4% Maguire quotes. Base rate has been rising through the past year. It would be very surprising if UKEF would lend at a low fixed interest rate. I'd assume it will be at a modest margin above base rate.

3) Fosun stated as guarantor. Very likely because Fosun are the club's owners. Though, this would merit disclosing in the club's accounts - maybe it will be for accounts for the period ended 31st May 2023.

Interesting that you say you are "reasonably sure that this is not how Burnley got it's November 2022 loan for £39.7m." Do you have any information you can share?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:03 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:52 pm
Good link, CP.

Good to see that Kieran Maguire, except a few details, reflects my views.

Where do he and I differ?

1) The UKEF loan is not reported in W.W (1990) 31st May 2022 financial report, so we can be confident that the loan was taken out sometime after 31st May 2022. Interestingly it doesn't merit a mention in Wolves "Events after Balance Sheet date (unless I've missed it).

2) I'd be surprised if the interest rate is as low as the 3% to 4% Maguire quotes. Base rate has been rising through the past year. It would be very surprising if UKEF would lend at a low fixed interest rate. I'd assume it will be at a modest margin above base rate.

3) Fosun stated as guarantor. Very likely because Fosun are the club's owners. Though, this would merit disclosing in the club's accounts - maybe it will be for accounts for the period ended 31st May 2023.

Interesting that you say you are "reasonably sure that this is not how Burnley got it's November 2022 loan for £39.7m." Do you have any information you can share?
My basis is that we were not members of the Premier League at the time, Premier League provided a minimum of £200m of income over the next 4 seasons for Wolves at the time with an established record of membership (they were in their 5th consecutive season at that Level). Wolves have a greater export trade away from broadcasting, with retail and particularly their China based Esports team, which has an American Private Equity investment partner.

For us there was no guarantee of promotion and being an EFL member does not have the same global cachet, audiences and consequently revenues -

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ClaretPete001 » Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:02 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:43 pm
I worry about you, Pete. Don't you understand the words "at no net cost to the taxpayer?" Whatever UKEF is doing it apparently isn't wasting any taxpayers money. Yes, that is very possibly unusual for a government agency. However, that's what they say and, I guess, in one form or another, that's what they've been saying since ECGD was formed in 1919.

All major countries have Export Credit Agencies (ECAs). There are also a number of multi-lateral rules governing the activities of ECAs, including what they can do and what they can't do.
IF UK PLC invested in a company that was exporting Power Saws to logging companies in the Amazon jungle would you say there was no argument that the cost to the tax payer was not worth it even if the money was returned with interest?

The football marketplace is riven with inflation and debt providing short term cash flow to companies that are not big enough to compete in it is not going to increase trade or exports. It is likely to increase inflation and debt further.

In the end, the tax payer will pay for it in terms of higher ticket prices and the eventual crash of the market should nothing be done about it.

The last Labour Gov't de-regulated the banks and artificially fueled economic growth by maxing out the credit cards of ordinary working people up to the point where consumer debt could not drive demand. And the cumulative bad debt crashed the banking sector

Banks do not cost the tax payer money until they do.....! Giving football clubs operating cash to the tune of half their revenue is not going to increase exports or trade it just gives the owners of the club a seat at the roulette wheel and a few chips so they can rub shoulders with the billionaires and the oligarchs.

Of course, in Wolves case the owners would prefer to gamble with taxpayers money than their own billions... and to be fair who wouldn't?

So, I would say it is a poor use of tax payers money even if we get it back in the end.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:34 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 12:37 pm
Famously Barcelona call deals where they essentially take a 'cash advance' for a proportion future revenues over a defined period as 'Financial Levers' - They are not the only ones in Spain to play such games - Real Madrid started doing it in 2017.

The closest our club has come to such practises is factoring - which we are involved in again, this time with Macquarie, but have done previously under the chairmanships of Barry Kilby, Mike Garlick and John Banaszkiewicz and separately under Mike Garlick.

Factoring of course is for a fixed sum (not percentage) and is legally a credit agreement with 'charges' registered at Companies House. The agreements undertaken by Barcelona and Real Madrid appear to bear strong resemblance to 'Credit Agreements but the clubs are at pains to make claim that they are not, as their are UEFA financial compliance issues, though them being credit agreements would provide upside tax implications.

Here. The Telegraph focuses on one such agreement that Real Madrid have with US Private Equity Fund (yes the vultures are at the door) Providence and the clubs apparent refusal to explain which EUR 122m of monies in the last accounts has disappeared too.

Real Madrid face questions over unexplained costs of €122m
Exclusive: Real have reassured its members it is in a strong financial position, but it has only stayed marginally in profit in recent years

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... million%2F

you may remember that Real Madrid and Barcelona refused to be part of La Liga's deal with CVC arguing that the deal was not advantageous to them. Certainly both clubs have raised much more in similar deals struck on their own.

the above article has a Q & A section on Real Madrid's finaces that can be found here

Real Madrid finances — Q&A
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... million%2F
This is an interesting development from UEFA

Uefa cut off Barcelona and Real Madrid’s future revenue stream lifeline
Exclusive: Catalan club may struggle to comply with financial fair play rules after sale of future earnings defined as debt, not profit

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... eam-ffp%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:39 pm

It seems UEFA has realised this balloon may pop and is forcing clubs to “keep it real” better late than never, but they could have saved the pain if they had been awake when all this creative accounting first began.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:40 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:34 pm
This is an interesting development from UEFA

Uefa cut off Barcelona and Real Madrid’s future revenue stream lifeline
Exclusive: Catalan club may struggle to comply with financial fair play rules after sale of future earnings defined as debt, not profit

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... eam-ffp%2F
The actual statement from UEFA's Financial Control Body was rather vague, just a line in a broader release

FC Barcelona (ESP) was imposed a fine of €500,000 for wrongly reporting, in the financial year 2022, profits on disposal of intangible assets (other than player transfers) which are not a relevant income under the regulations.

The CFCB concludes the last assessment of the break-even requirement during the 2022/23 season
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/02 ... -even-req/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:43 pm

Hopefully it will be the start of more commonsense financial management in football,long overdue.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 15, 2023 10:49 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2023 11:13 am
this is interesting because it also looks at things like a single global distribution deal for the Premier League - by Adam Crafton for The Athletic

Apple, Lionel Messi and the $2.5bn question: What’s next?
https://archive.is/RiUId
Jonathan Wilson of the Guardian asks

Money and profile, sure, but what does Lionel Messi bring to Miami on the pitch?
With less gifted players around him, Inter’s defence-shy superstar could struggle with the physicality of MLS

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... -the-pitch
https://archive.is/hyqtF

there is a line in this article that is truly shocking - and would not be possible in Europe/UK

"Certainly nobody seems to be given much thought to Rodolfo Pizarro, who was subbed 20 minutes into the second half of last week’s 2-2 draw with DC United and now finds his contract terminated to make way for Messi – collateral damage in this massive financial opportunity."

and this before Inter Miami announce the acquisition of more of Messi's former Barca teammates to keep him happy

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:35 pm

the Athletic with what is now an annual look at the wealth (or otherwise) of the Premier League's member club owners

How Premier League owners made their money: Marrying rich, toilet paper and shipping
https://archive.is/Bwk07

note the takeover price quoted for Burnley FC is wrong - we know that because CVHL told the small shareholders exactly how much they were paying per share in the offer letter of October 4 2021 for the small shareholders shares = the total price was a fraction under £170m

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 16, 2023 2:35 pm

The excellent Josimar Football look at the, sadly, all all to familiar situation where a football federation/association is run unopposed by a highly questionable figure - and yes, it happens in Europe too

Coronation, crime and corruption
The King of Cypriot football has been crowned – again. Like all coronations, there is no rival but the game is far from healthy in the realm of Giorgos Koumas, under whose presidency the failings of the Cyprus Football Association (CFA) were mercilessly exposed before he was re-elected unopposed.

https://josimarfootball.com/2023/07/13/ ... orruption/
https://archive.is/At3h6

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:20 pm

The opening sentence of this article, demonstrates a clear understanding of the mindset of English Football - it is sad reflection of our world and the ludicrous position sport (that should be the business of sport, though for the most part there is no longer any separation in the two definitions)

"There is probably more chance of Saudi Arabia buying up San Francisco’s Pride festival and moving it to Riyadh than a football club taking a firm moral stance about who it deals with."

there are a handful of contrary examples of course, but not one would be considered a huge success in club competition

Saudi Arabia is problematic – but it’s the cash cow the Premier League needs
https://archive.is/NQZU8

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by CoolClaret » Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:20 pm
The opening sentence of this article, demonstrates a clear understanding of the mindset of English Football - it is sad reflection of our world and the ludicrous position sport (that should be the business of sport, though for the most part there is no longer any separation in the two definitions)

"There is probably more chance of Saudi Arabia buying up San Francisco’s Pride festival and moving it to Riyadh than a football club taking a firm moral stance about who it deals with."

there are a handful of contrary examples of course, but not one would be considered a huge success in club competition

Saudi Arabia is problematic – but it’s the cash cow the Premier League needs
https://archive.is/NQZU8
Does this roughly translate as ‘yeah but it’s a good way for bent clubs like Chelsea to circumvent FFP’

For what it’s worth I think Saudi are trying to butter Liverpool up and i think will probably try and make a bid to buy them from FSG - expect a huge ruckus from the Scousers if so…

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:55 pm

CoolClaret wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:28 pm
Does this roughly translate as ‘yeah but it’s a good way for bent clubs like Chelsea to circumvent FFP’

For what it’s worth I think Saudi are trying to butter Liverpool up and i think will probably try and make a bid to buy them from FSG - expect a huge ruckus from the Scousers if so…
It has been a useful incursion for Chelsea (and others) but nothing particularly bent from what I see, and yes it has helped the FFP picture, though there have been bigger sales to European and English clubs. the issue with Chelsea is why produce all that Academy talent if all you are going to do is sell it.

Manchester City do similar only keeping a handful while selling the rest off for hundreds of millions - nut they are much more focused when it comes to buying - that said they seem to be in the process of a major squad overhaul particularly if Mahrez goes too

The Saudi's have their Premier League Club. The interesting states from a big football club purchase perspective are Kuwait and Bahrain - Kuwait's public investment fund is much bigger than the Saudi's

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:21 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:33 am
It is not like we didn't know it already

English clubs lost almost £1bn in one season, report reveals
Analysis of all 92 clubs reveals alarming instability across professional leagues

https://archive.is/yZOpS#selection-789.0-793.81

The above article from the Times is based on the findings of this report


https://www.lcp.com/media/1150389/creat ... ce=website

it has been created by LCP Analytics (https://www.lcp.com/technology-analytics/football/) who earlier this year joined up with Fairgame to create the Football Sustainability Index (https://www.lcp.com/media-centre/2023/0 ... ity-index/)

as with all these types of reports there are issues but it can help you though a wet summers afternoon - here is the thing in full

Creating a sustainable future for football
The financial sustainability of men's football clubs in the English league pyramid
July 2023

https://www.lcp.com/media/1150389/creat ... ce=website
I had a quick look at the FairGame index, https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... +July+2023 , this bit did not make me confident that they knew what they were talking about.
Screenshot 2023-07-17 132107.jpg
Screenshot 2023-07-17 132107.jpg (105.03 KiB) Viewed 7898 times

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:29 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:33 am
It is not like we didn't know it already

English clubs lost almost £1bn in one season, report reveals
Analysis of all 92 clubs reveals alarming instability across professional leagues

https://archive.is/yZOpS#selection-789.0-793.81

The above article from the Times is based on the findings of this report


https://www.lcp.com/media/1150389/creat ... ce=website

it has been created by LCP Analytics (https://www.lcp.com/technology-analytics/football/) who earlier this year joined up with Fairgame to create the Football Sustainability Index (https://www.lcp.com/media-centre/2023/0 ... ity-index/)

as with all these types of reports there are issues but it can help you though a wet summers afternoon - here is the thing in full

Creating a sustainable future for football
The financial sustainability of men's football clubs in the English league pyramid
July 2023

https://www.lcp.com/media/1150389/creat ... ce=website
It is always interesting how different approaches can essentially report the same data - Here Matt Slater in The Athletic reports on the Football Sustainability Index, somewhat differently to the researchers above

AFC Wimbledon recognised as English football’s best-run club
https://archive.is/8lxKZ

and indeed to how Fairgame (who essentially commissioned the report) announced it

Fair Game Index flags football’s finest as football enters last chance saloon
https://www.fairgameuk.org/press-releas ... ex-overall

Winners under criteria of new Independent Regulator revealed in most comprehensive survey of English football ever conducted
https://www.fairgameuk.org/press-releases/fairgameindex

Football’s Equality Standard champions named as part of Fair Game Index
https://www.fairgameuk.org/press-releas ... ardswinner

Football is for the fans, but which club puts fans first? Fair Game has the answer
https://www.fairgameuk.org/press-releas ... mentwinner

Who is the best football club for good governance? Fair Game reveals all
https://www.fairgameuk.org/press-releas ... ance-award

Revealed: England’s most financially sustainable football club. Who came top?
https://www.fairgameuk.org/press-releas ... litywinner

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:18 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:35 pm
the Athletic with what is now an annual look at the wealth (or otherwise) of the Premier League's member club owners

How Premier League owners made their money: Marrying rich, toilet paper and shipping
https://archive.is/Bwk07

note the takeover price quoted for Burnley FC is wrong - we know that because CVHL told the small shareholders exactly how much they were paying per share in the offer letter of October 4 2021 for the small shareholders shares = the total price was a fraction under £170m
today it is the turn of The Championship club owners - for the reveal of how they made their money

How Championship owners made their money: Chicken vaccines, tinned fish and cookbooks
https://archive.is/k7KoR

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:27 pm

aggi wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:21 pm
I had a quick look at the FairGame index, https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... +July+2023 , this bit did not make me confident that they knew what they were talking about.

Screenshot 2023-07-17 132107.jpg
the methodology that comes up with these results is somewhat flawed as discussion in this thread from late January this year shows

we scored very highly on financial stability in the one published at the time, with the outflow of cash for non football/club development reasons ignored and the i.o.u from the owners being treated with full faith of repayments as it is in the net assets disclosure

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:31 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:37 pm
So Nent pick up six year deals for multiple countries around Europe including Holland - from SportsBusiness.com

Nent lands Premier League in Netherlands, Poland and Baltics in six-season deals
Reginald Ajuonuma
July 7, 2021
(Photo by Michael Regan/Getty Images)

Media company Nordic Entertainment (Nent) Group has acquired exclusive rights to the English Premier League across the Netherlands, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania for the six seasons from 2022-23 to 2027-28.

The inventory comprises live rights to all 380 matches each season in all five countries.

Nent will exploit the rights on its Viaplay subscription streaming service, which launched in the Baltics in March and will be rolled out to Poland and the Netherlands in August this year and the first quarter of next year, respectively.

The broadcaster’s coverage will include local commentators, experts and studio programming.

It acquired the rights after an invitation to tender launched by the Premier League in late May, covering over 40 European and Central Asian countries.

Participating broadcasters were asked to lodge bids for both the three-season (2022-23 to 2024-25) and six-season (2022-23 to 2027-28) contract periods.

Four different live rights packages were on offer in the Netherlands and Poland, including a package containing all 380 matches. In the Baltic countries, which were treated as a single territory, only one live package of all matches was available.

Nent’s rights across the Netherlands, Poland and the Baltics were agreed in two separate deals. It will replace incumbents telco Ziggo in the Netherlands and Canal Plus in Poland.

The IMG agency holds the rights in the Baltics until the end of 2021-22, which it sublicensed to the Saran agency, which sublicensed them on to pay-television broadcaster All Media Baltics.

Peter Nørrelund, Nent’s group chief sports officer, told SportBusiness that the broadcaster did not have plans to sublicence any of the rights in the Netherlands, Poland and the Baltics.

He added: “If you want to run a subscription business in sports, you first of all have to be strong in football. When you have a strong base in football, then you can start acquiring subscribers and also look at all the rights that are more specific for the territory in question.”

Earlier this week, Nent unveiled its pricing for the Polish service, which launches on August 3. The service will cost PLN34 (€7.53/$8.90) per month.

Nent has already acquired Bundesliga rights for its Viaplay service in the Netherlands, Poland and the Baltics in two-cycle deals running for a total of eight seasons from 2021-22 onwards.

The broadcaster’s latest long-term deals follow the six-season deal it announced last year for the Premier League in Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden from 2022-23 to 2027-28.

Nørrelund told SportBusiness: “We like long contracts; we like to build relationships with IP owners. I’m very happy the Premier League has started to licence six-season agreements.”

The Premier League has already struck a number of large deals for the new rights cycle. It agreed a three-season deal in sub-Saharan Africa with pay-television broadcaster SuperSport. A renewal was also agreed in the Middle East and North Africa with pay-television broadcaster beIN Media Group in a deal that includes live rights to all 380 matches each season.

Domestically, the Premier League has ensured the same level of revenue from its existing broadcast agreements. The league voted to roll over its existing deals with Sky, telco BT, online retail giant Amazon and public-service broadcaster the BBC for the 2022-25 cycle.

The league currently earns a total of £1.53bn (€1.8bn/$2.1bn) per season for its domestic media rights, out of total media-rights income of about £2.82bn per season.
I have been reading about the troubles at Viaplay for a while now - Viaplay is a rebranding of Nent following it's acquisition of sports media players across Europe and into North America. For those who are not aware Viaplay is probably the Premier Leagues second biggest broadcast partner after Comcast (who own SKY, NBC and Peacock).

Here Matt Slater of the Athletic looks at the problems - with the speculation about prospect of payment defaults looming, what are the odds that the Premier League gets its monies ahead of other leagues, thereby further increasing it's financial strength.

It is worth noting that the majority of Viaplay's Premier League deals run across two cycles and are still in their first cycle - the article looks at the impact these financial troubles will have on future sports rights (particularly the next cycle) which will include reduced domestic competition for Premier League rights whose value has stalled and effectively decreased across the last 3 cycles when inflation is considered, partly due to the lack of competition for them.

Viaplay cutbacks could be start of tough times for sales of sports media rights
https://archive.is/gQ92B

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:18 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2023 12:42 pm
I see football insider stating that Newcastle are looking to loan Neves from Al H next season…
Surely alarm bells are ringing loud and clear were this Saudi aim to take football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/65982507
A variation on a theme - the propose fee for Saint Maximin looks far from excessive, though there are no doubt a number of Premier League clubs who are concerned about losing European places that they essentially believe are theirs as of right - imagine if Newcastle sold him and loaned him right back, there is precedent, as we have previously discussed

Clubs to raise concerns with Premier League over potential Allan Saint-Maximin transfer to Saudi Arabia
https://archive.is/1Ul1T
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:28 pm

This looks like a big win for FIFA at the Court of Arbitration for Sport

Agents fail in bid to overturn FIFA regulations at CAS
https://archive.is/sufnv

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:49 am

Since Swiss Ramble took his analysis behind a paywall, general appreciation of the finances at clubs seems to have taken a downturn

Yesterday he released an analysis of the 2021/22 finances of all Premier League clubs free to all - it also includes a 10 year analysis - Burnley features quite prominently via a mixture of approaches from two different regimes and last summers fire sale, as ever the numbers do not tell the full story

Premier League Finances by Club 2021/22 (including last 10 years growth)
Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others

https://swissramble.substack.com/p/prem ... email=true
https://archive.is/Pxoj1

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:01 pm

No surprise to see such talk bouncing around at the moment but the last sentence of this article is the one with the most resonance

“Fan intensity and passion may be at an all time high but so is activism and discontent, especially at ownership. I just cannot see how the clubs would pull it off.”

U.S. World Cup organisers 'would die' to host Premier League football Stateside
England’s top tier stepping up efforts to capitalise on its popularity and last week opened an office in New York for the first time

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... ateside%2F

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:09 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:01 pm
No surprise to see such talk bouncing around at the moment but the last sentence of this article is the one with the most resonance

“Fan intensity and passion may be at an all time high but so is activism and discontent, especially at ownership. I just cannot see how the clubs would pull it off.”

U.S. World Cup organisers 'would die' to host Premier League football Stateside
England’s top tier stepping up efforts to capitalise on its popularity and last week opened an office in New York for the first time

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... ateside%2F
Of course, as could be judged from the quotes in the article itself, there are only a few clubs that overseas promoters are really interested in

Forget Fulham vs Brentford – America's Premier League play is all about the elite
2026 World Cup organisers have their eyes on Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal and for that reason their dream will not become reality
https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... tbal-game/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:26 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:18 pm
A variation on a theme - the propose fee for Saint Maximin looks far from excessive, though there are no doubt a number of Premier League clubs who are concerned about losing European places that they essentially believe are theirs as of right - imagine if Newcastle sold him and loaned him right back, there is precedent, as we have previously discussed

Clubs to raise concerns with Premier League over potential Allan Saint-Maximin transfer to Saudi Arabia
https://archive.is/1Ul1T
£30 million for 32yr old Mahrez who had just 12mths left on his contract .....
Silly money

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:26 am

I have been saying for a while that FFP is beginning to bite a number of clubs - particularly in light of Covid losses when clubs spent to come out strong and preserve their status in the top flight (and Europe) here we see troubles for Wolves - golden boys for more than the colour of their shirts for a few seasons when they were promoted

Wolves have sold their stars but are not out of the FFP woods yet
Manager Julen Lopetegui has made his frustrations felt and the club's financial situation could limit their ambitions this season
https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... ffp-woods/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:30 am

I have been saying for a while that FFP is beginning to bite a number of clubs - particularly in light of Covid losses when clubs spent to come out strong and preserve their status in the top flight (and Europe) here we see troubles for Wolves - golden boys for more than the colour of their shirts for a few seasons when they were promoted

Wolves have sold their stars but are not out of the FFP woods yet
Manager Julen Lopetegui has made his frustrations felt and the club's financial situation could limit their ambitions this season

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... ffp-woods/

But is it just down to FFP - I have also long been commenting on the Chinese government's interference with overseas football investments and on Fosun's search for an investment partner in Wolves - there could be multiple factors in play for Wolves

Wolves: Fosun, finances and an uncertain future
https://archive.is/ApwjB
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:43 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:59 am
This Saudi investment in it's own - very well established and supported - League is causing much angst

from the Telegraph

European rivals of Chelsea and Wolves call for inquiry into Saudi spending spree
Exclusive: Saudi Pro League officials are in London this week to discuss deals with both clubs who are trying to meet FFP rules


though some of the issues are bigger - from the Independent

Saudi Arabia can help Chelsea solve headache — but talks raise more questions than answers
The Blues could sell a number of unwanted players to Saudi clubs to boost FFP concerns and help one of the most ambitious plans in football

https://archive.is/r6rf5

but what does this 'disruptor influence' it actually mean for football in Saudi and globally - from The Athletic

Bubble or boom: Is the Saudi Pro League a new Chinese Super League… or a new IPL?
https://archive.is/SLg5h

and as I have been posting for years now - particularly in this thread it is about bigger issues than just football or even sport which are in essence just the outwardly visible signs of a much more serious change in geo-politics

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 4127256578

There is also the thought that we have still to see the biggest of the Middle East's public wealth funds get involved in sport the way we have seen from Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudi Arabia - there was a time when Kuwait led in sport within that region.

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 4014868481
Interesting piece in the Guardian today about Kuwait considering opening up its investment portfolio and become a more significant player on the regional and world stage - whether this materialises i part as football investment is at this stage just speculation

Could launch of sovereign fund make Kuwait the Gulf’s next football power?
Country with rich football history was at 1982 World Cup but has seen Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar leave it behind

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ball-power
https://archive.is/GWDtN
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:15 pm

Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian with a column that brings together many elements that have been covered in this thread - I actually think FIFA would love a cross -confederation club tournament - after all Gianni Infantino and Florentino Perez were in collusion about such a thing just before Covid came along.

And for those of you who want to keep politics out of football, it is impossible, politics is at the core of football's very soul - think of the FA Cup amateurs fighting off professional interlopers only to lose the battle in the 1880'scourtesy of Blackburn Olympic, Preston North End and Blackburn Rovers. Or even the creation of the Football League with primary provocateurs being Burnley and Accrington. Politics is at the very heart of football in East Lancashire and the county Palatine at large.

Premier League and Fifa helpless against Saudi juggernaut’s relentless progress
Saudi Pro League’s moves for ageing stars echo other leagues – but there is no reason why stars at their peak should not follow

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... juggernaut
https://archive.is/JpoQp

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by RammyClaret61 » Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:44 am

“football is far from perfect but it is a thing we love”.

I think for a lot, the thing we love is the product on the pitch. The politics and the money actually make us sick. It’s an unfortunate by-product that can’t be disentangled from football. The sad thing, the money is turning the product on the pitch into a different game, a must win at any and all costs.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:32 am

On a related note

A thought provoking column in the Guardian by Jason Stockwood chair of Grimsby Town

Manchester City’s ownership tests the values and connection of a fanbase
The team my father-in-law supports are unrecognisable from the one he followed as a child: is it still the same football club?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... -a-fanbase
https://archive.is/ktUqh

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:42 am

It is hard to establish if this deal will devalue Manchester United in the eyes of the bidders

Manchester United agree 10-year extension with Adidas worth at least £900m
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66358793

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:57 am

John Textor is one of the names that has featured far to regularly on this thread - but the reasons for that are self inflicted by Textor himself - here he has the opportunity to present his side of things in an interview with Matt Slater of the Athletic

John Textor: His uncertain Palace future, Lyon boardroom battles and multi-club vision
https://archive.is/HYBoM

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:29 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 4:16 pm
https://www.tifosy.com/raises/peterborough-united-bond

Peterborough United issue a Bond to fans paying 9% interest, and a 15% bonus if they are promoted to the Championship. Need to invest minimum of £500 and repaid in five years.

Pretty interesting. Their promotion record is decent.
There was a bit of discussion about the above on this thread when the above was posted, I wonder how that Peterbrough Bond offer looks in the light of this situation

Peterborough administration risk if debt to investment fund not repaid
https://archive.is/ei2AE

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:34 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:15 pm
Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian with a column that brings together many elements that have been covered in this thread - I actually think FIFA would love a cross -confederation club tournament - after all Gianni Infantino and Florentino Perez were in collusion about such a thing just before Covid came along.

And for those of you who want to keep politics out of football, it is impossible, politics is at the core of football's very soul - think of the FA Cup amateurs fighting off professional interlopers only to lose the battle in the 1880'scourtesy of Blackburn Olympic, Preston North End and Blackburn Rovers. Or even the creation of the Football League with primary provocateurs being Burnley and Accrington. Politics is at the very heart of football in East Lancashire and the county Palatine at large.

Premier League and Fifa helpless against Saudi juggernaut’s relentless progress
Saudi Pro League’s moves for ageing stars echo other leagues – but there is no reason why stars at their peak should not follow

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... juggernaut
https://archive.is/JpoQp
the fear train about Saudi investment in its own league continues - though you would expect that the Asian Confederation will introduce some king of FFP model to help counteract it - Saudi domination of its club competitions and ideals of growing sustainable leagues across the confederation are likely to ensure that.

So this was yesterdays general story - the unspoken issue being no apparent financial fair play regulation in Saudi and AFC (Asian Football Confederation)

Premier League clubs fear 10-year Saudi splurge will distort football market
Concerns growing that ultra-ambitious Pro League clubs will increasingly turn their attention from fading stars to players in their prime

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... r-wages%2F

This opinion piece in the Guardian today is much more nuanced - pointing at that what ever the source of the finance - club supporters are still supporting the clubs they always have in the numbers they always have within smaller domestic leagues around the world, passions have not changed, just the interest in and access to the readily available highlights/stats on the global stars

Don’t obsess about football selling its soul to Saudi Arabia. It sold itself to big money long ago
The eye-watering sums on offer for players like Ronaldo are only the latest influx of cash for a game we love, but others own

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... no-ronaldo
https://archive.is/YsmuV

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