Teams faced so far

[burnleymik]

And finally - my biggest complaint is our set piece delivery vs the big teams. Brownhill’s delivery is awful, but if he has to take them PLEASE get them straight in. Chances vs the very top teams will be few & far between and we can’t waste them. Same with FK’s in the opposition half. I like the good football but against these teams feel we have to prioritise goal threats when chances come our way.

Out set pieces are really poor at the moment. We need to work out a way to utilise them far better because we do get up the pitch a lot more and get these opportunities, but they rarely come to anything.

[burnleymik]

Beyer wasn't playing

Yep, meant Delcroix. Seems very good in the air BTW.

[NewClaret]

For clarity here is what I wrote and your response:

Me:

"If you don't think that we are capable of taking points from another team that is having a poor game and are in the same division as us then you must already have us nailed on to finish bottom of the table?"

You:

"I don’t think this team is capable of taking points off these top teams, particularly playing this style, as has been proved. We’ve been completely schooled by these guys"

As you've written above you've said you don't think this team is capable of taking points off these "top teams".
You have just said that full stop, no mention of if they play well or badly?

I don’t think the teams that have played us at the turf did play badly though so it’s a bit of a moot point. If they turned up and all had mares, possibly, but I don’t think they have.

On balance they all have far greater experience and ability than we do currently and it only really needs one or two (Bruno, Sterling - both of whom have undone much bigger sides/countries than us over their careers) and they do you.

I reckon if we look at the teams we’ve played so far at home, the league table, and their results against the bottom half at the end of the season that will bare out. But of course there will be occasional shock results. And as I’ve already said, I think tactically we could do things to give us a better chance of securing them.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The other thing not mentioned about sides we have played is how few goals they have conceded, e.g. Spurs who are top have conceded only 8 from 8 and we scored a couple of those, whereas Chelsea have conceded even fewer and we scored against them too. We also scored against Villa who have a solid defence, their 12 conceded is distorted by trips to Newcastle and Liverpool which were 8 of those. United have shipped 12 but several their keeper has chucked in and he chose to have a solid game against us.

So the positive is the goals we are scoring against almost everyone, including of course the away games where we scored 2 in each against lesser opposition (counting Foster at Forest seeing as that was a goal in my mind).

It’s just that defence with us being down to our reserve CBs. But hopefully when not against the elite we won’t be exposed as much.

All the wider points about tactics and player choice I agree with, but this is about teams faced and thats my point. They have solid defences and flair attackers who can expose reserve and inexperienced defences.

[Spijed]

The other thing not mentioned about sides we have played is how few goals they have conceded, e.g. Spurs who are top have conceded only 8 from 8 and we scored a couple of those, whereas Chelsea have conceded even fewer and we scored against them too. We also scored against Villa who have a solid defence, their 12 conceded is distorted by trips to Newcastle and Liverpool which were 8 of those. United have shipped 12 but several their keeper has chucked in and he chose to have a solid game against us.

So the positive is the goals we are scoring against almost everyone, including of course the away games where we scored 2 in each against lesser opposition (counting Foster at Forest seeing as that was a goal in my mind).

It’s just that defence with us being down to our reserve CBs. But hopefully when not against the elite we won’t be exposed as much.

All the wider points about tactics and player choice I agree with, but this is about teams faced and thats my point. They have solid defences and flair attackers who can expose reserve and inexperienced defences.

Spurs have faced Brentford, Sheff United & Luton and found all three games very tough. Yet ours was s bit of a training session for them.

[boyyanno]

I don’t think the teams that have played us at the turf did play badly though so it’s a bit of a moot point. If they turned up and all had mares, possibly, but I don’t think they have.

On balance they all have far greater experience and ability than we do currently and it only really needs one or two (Bruno, Sterling - both of whom have undone much bigger sides/countries than us over their careers) and they do you.

I reckon if we look at the teams we’ve played so far at home, the league table, and their results against the bottom half at the end of the season that will bare out. But of course there will be occasional shock results. And as I’ve already said, I think tactically we could do things to give us a better chance of securing them.

Ahh apologies, if you don't think they played badly fair enough. I think United were very poor personally and I think we rolled over and let Chelsea have it in the end, I think they were better than United, but only at a level we can't compete with for a small portion of the game.

[RVclaret]

Spurs have faced Brentford, Sheff United & Luton and found all three games very tough. Yet ours was s bit of a training session for them.

Spurs played Brentford on the opening day before properly clicking. Sheff United sure albeit they just plonked all 11 behind the ball all game and time wasted. Luton wasn’t very tough at all until the red card, they should have been 4-0 up in the first 15 min.

Granted we were awful second half against them.

[NewClaret]

Spurs played Brentford on the opening day before properly clicking. Sheff United sure albeit they just plonked all 11 behind the ball all game and time wasted. Luton wasn’t very tough at all until the red card, they should have been 4-0 up in the first 15 min.

Granted we were awful second half against them.

This is a good point - I think to get results vs those teams you have to sit back, soak it up, hope you get lucky. Or even luckier if the opposition get a red or you can nick something. That’s how Dyche did it and fair play to him.

For whatever reason, I’ve watched us do that now and I prefer us going toe to toe, but I do think there’s a bit of a balance to be had which we’ve not quite struck yet. Better use of dead balls being my number one plea.

And I’m massively curious how playing Muric against a top team would work out (we’ve never seen him so I’m genuinely unsure) and Cork also, maybe not the whole game though. I think the results would’ve been the same but maybe the GD would be better!

[NewClaret]

Ahh apologies, if you don't think they played badly fair enough. I think United were very poor personally and I think we rolled over and let Chelsea have it in the end, I think they were better than United, but only at a level we can't compete with for a small portion of the game.

I agree United we’re the worst of the lot, but it’s back to my point that you basically need everyone to have an appalling game because they have players who can play badly for 99 minutes but then turn it on in 30 seconds and pick up the win (Bruno).

It’s annoying but that’s what money buys you, what the top players do and why we could play badly last year and still pick up wins.

Chelsea were much better and Sterling I thought had Vitinho on strings. But let’s be fair that he’s done that to many a Prem side and national side over the years. It just needed two flashes of his brilliance and we were done. The reaction was as frustrating as the loss was inevitable though.

I do think with more experience these games will get closer. By that I mean Kompany’s experience too as I’m not even sure he knows his best side yet and I think he’ll learn to adapt.

[Newchurch Claret]

Worst Chelsea side I've seen at Burnley, nowhere near good enough and we allowed them back into the game. I totally disagree with you.

I said this to my son after 30 mins. I still felt the same way at the end of the match. They’re not a patch on the Chelsea sides we’ve faced previously and were there for the taking, as were Man Utd a few games ago. Our Championship winning team from last season would have beaten both.

Our transfer activity this summer is baffling. For all the money spent, I can’t think of one player who has improved us dramatically, which is ridiculous. I can only hope that, with time, there will be more cohesion and the new players will learn that 100% effort is required at all times at this level.

[Nori1958]

I said this to my son after 30 mins. I still felt the same way at the end of the match. They’re not a patch on the Chelsea sides we’ve faced previously and were there for the taking, as were Man Utd a few games ago. Our Championship winning team from last season would have beaten both.

Our transfer activity this summer is baffling. For all the money spent, I can’t think of one player who has improved us dramatically, which is ridiculous. I can only hope that, with time, there will be more cohesion and the new players will learn that 100% effort is required at all times at this level.

How did we do against utd in our championship winning season?

[KRBFC]

I'm simply pointing out that they'll be just as tough games, but for different reasons. People seem to think that because we beat Luton we'll walk over the bottom half teams.We won't.

They won’t, factually they will be easier games. Unless you wanna argue Luton/Forest are on the same level as Newcastle/Man City

[claretandy]

I said this to my son after 30 mins. I still felt the same way at the end of the match. They’re not a patch on the Chelsea sides we’ve faced previously and were there for the taking, as were Man Utd a few games ago. Our Championship winning team from last season would have beaten both.

Our transfer activity this summer is baffling. For all the money spent, I can’t think of one player who has improved us dramatically, which is ridiculous. I can only hope that, with time, there will be more cohesion and the new players will learn that 100% effort is required at all times at this level.

Team being the word, we aren't a team yet, it took a while last season as well, arguably after the world cup.

[Elizabeth]

Doesn't help the atmosphere when the club has been very vocal against people standing up in one of the few places an atmosphere starts in the ground.

It's a bit at odds with Kompany's 'make the Turf like hell' comments.

I think you are just making excuses to attack the people running the club.

What's the excuse for the pathetic support the cricket field stand give in crucial parts of games. 1-0 up on Sat , Chelsea starting to come into the game and all we get is silence.
Odd shouts of support around the ground from individuals but nothing from the part of the ground that should get the atmosphere going , not a few who have been told off for blocking the view of good paying customers.

[Pickles]

I think you are just making excuses to attack the people running the club.

Pardon? I've just stated a fact.

[Elizabeth]

People no longer being able to stand up in that part of the ground should have no bearing on the atmosphere inside the ground even though you would like to think so

[redwasp]

I didn't think it worth starting a new thread so I've put it on here. On MOTD 2 last night three of the goals of the month contenders were against us and the top two were the Newcastle and Man United ones.

[NewClaret]

I’d agree the atmosphere had been poor this year and not what VK asked for.

Will support what pickles is saying though. Russell Ball’s comments on the standers in the podcast were ill-considered and actually entirely at odds with what VK said he wanted.

Particularly given rail seating has been around for an age and the club have done nothing at all to introduce it. They’ve been slow at best with very little communication.

It’s clear that standing isn’t the issue as everyone does it all game in the CFS. It’s because it’s in front of the boxes. So the club are hiding behind the old ground safety points.

What I’d have done is very quickly got rail seating in AND dropped a few more rows on to the CFS down to pitch level to accommodate those in that corner if they wished to stand. And if that couldn’t accommodate them all, a small amount across the front of the BL. This would have the advantage of a) accommodating them, b) marginally increasing our capacity in a sell out season), and most importantly, c) getting the fans closer to the pitch tandem creating that compact hostile ground.

But when you’re not coming to the table with alternatives that exist elsewhere then you’re not really well placed to complain about fans wanting to stand and cheer on their team.

Actually quite surprised how little the club have done to accommodate a more hostile/atmospheric ground given VK wrote a dissertation on the benefits of home advantage.

[Newchurch Claret]

How did we do against utd in our championship winning season?

Irrelevant to my point, which was that I think our team from last season would have beaten the Man U team that turned up at Turf Moor a few weeks ago.

[Stayingup]

Not writing them off as a bottom half team. Just saying what I saw yesterday. The likes of Caicedo and Enzo didn't have to have good games. There was no midfield for them to compete against. It was a total stroll for much of that game and that can't be excused surely. Sterling hasn't played that well for about two seasons. It's no coincidence. Kompany has called for us to make the Turf hell but on the pitch we've been lukewarm.

As things stand we need Cork in as a defensive midfielder. He has the experience that will benefit others.

[Nori1958]

Irrelevant to my point, which was that I think our team from last season would have beaten the Man U team that turned up at Turf Moor a few weeks ago.

So the most recent game, against the team you said we should beat is irrelevant

[Jakubclaret]

I’d agree the atmosphere had been poor this year and not what VK asked for.

Will support what pickles is saying though. Russell Ball’s comments on the standers in the podcast were ill-considered and actually entirely at odds with what VK said he wanted.

Particularly given rail seating has been around for an age and the club have done nothing at all to introduce it. They’ve been slow at best with very little communication.

It’s clear that standing isn’t the issue as everyone does it all game in the CFS. It’s because it’s in front of the boxes. So the club are hiding behind the old ground safety points.

What I’d have done is very quickly got rail seating in AND dropped a few more rows on to the CFS down to pitch level to accommodate those in that corner if they wished to stand. And if that couldn’t accommodate them all, a small amount across the front of the BL. This would have the advantage of a) accommodating them, b) marginally increasing our capacity in a sell out season), and most importantly, c) getting the fans closer to the pitch tandem creating that compact hostile ground.

But when you’re not coming to the table with alternatives that exist elsewhere then you’re not really well placed to complain about fans wanting to stand and cheer on their team.

Actually quite surprised how little the club have done to accommodate a more hostile/atmospheric ground given VK wrote a dissertation on the benefits of home advantage.

The general idea around asking for something is to give something back in return as a way of rewarding people for accepting that request. It's quite astonishing that the perception is things should be a 1 way street it works both ways. If you want people to do a certain thing give them a reason to oblige & don't give them any excuses not to.

[NewClaret]

The general idea around asking for something is to give something back in return as a way of rewarding people for accepting that request. It's quite astonishing that the perception is things should be a 1 way street it works both ways. If you want people to do a certain thing give them a reason to oblige & don't give them any excuses not to.

I agree that the team have to play their part via their performances, being competitive and getting in front/hanging in games.

But the flip side to that is that I also think this squad/manager massively played their part in getting us promoted and deserve better backing now that theyre going through a tricky spell. And there’ve been games like Saturday where we were one up for the majority of the first half but we’re very quiet.

It’s just my opinion but I think the team deserve more backing than they’ve received.

[Newcastleclaret93]

So the most recent game, against the team you said we should beat is irrelevant

I must admit I don’t get his logic at all.

Manchester United breezed past us in second gear in the cup last year. But the same team would have beaten them this year???

[Nori1958]

I must admit I don’t get his logic at all.

Manchester United breezed past us in second gear in the cup last year. But the same team would have beaten them this year???

Looks that way

[boyyanno]

I think you are just making excuses to attack the people running the club.

What's the excuse for the pathetic support the cricket field stand give in crucial parts of games. 1-0 up on Sat , Chelsea starting to come into the game and all we get is silence.
Odd shouts of support around the ground from individuals but nothing from the part of the ground that should get the atmosphere going , not a few who have been told off for blocking the view of good paying customers.

This board gives me a right laugh at times, the atmosphere this season has been poor but you're pointing a finger at literally the noisiest section of the ground. If the cricket fields support is "pathetic" then what does that make the stand you sit in?

[claretonthecoast1882]

This board gives me a right laugh at times, the atmosphere this season has been poor but you're pointing a finger at literally the noisiest section of the ground. If the cricket fields support is "pathetic" then what does that make the stand you sit in?

The atmosphere is poor around the whole ground but there are 2 things are facts.

The cricket field was asked asked to be split as the ones that want to go in there will create the atmosphere rather than be spread out around the whole ground. When we are doing well that section creates the atmosphere just as they said they would, sadly it seems there are conditions to when they get behind the team. This doesn't mean the other stands help they don't but this was/is the self titled singing section.

The same stand is the first to head to the pub once 2 goals down. Neither of these things help the team. Maybe as a club we have a fanbase where the majority are more suited to having it good in the championship rather than being in the Prem where it is harder.

[boyyanno]

The atmosphere is poor around the whole ground but there are 2 things are facts.

The cricket field was asked asked to be split as the ones that want to go in there will create the atmosphere rather than be spread out around the whole ground. When we are doing well that section creates the atmosphere just as they said they would, sadly it seems there are conditions to when they get behind the team. This doesn't mean the other stands help they don't but this was/is the self titled singing section.

The same stand is the first to head to the pub once 2 goals down. Neither of these things help the team. Maybe as a club we have a fanbase where the majority are more suited to having it good in the championship rather than being in the Prem where it is harder.

I agree it's been poor, I said that above. That being said I find it a bit strange to point a finger at the noisiest section of the ground and say they aren't doing their bit, when quite frankly at least a 3rd of the ground is like a morgue at times. It's not been helped by the fact that a lot of the noise generators from the Longside went in to the Cricket Field stand so there is less noise from around the ground as a whole.

I personally think suggesting the Cricket field is the only stand that starts to leave after we concede a few goals is just as stupid, I've seen plenty of mass exoduses in both the Beehole end and the Longside, not as many in the Bob Lord but only because it takes them longer to make it to the exit

[Rileybobs]

I blame Macca, the leader of the Cricket Field Stand, and would like to know what ideas he’s implementing to improve things.

[bumba]

The atmosphere is poor around the whole ground but there are 2 things are facts.

The cricket field was asked asked to be split as the ones that want to go in there will create the atmosphere rather than be spread out around the whole ground. When we are doing well that section creates the atmosphere just as they said they would, sadly it seems there are conditions to when they get behind the team. This doesn't mean the other stands help they don't but this was/is the self titled singing section.

The same stand is the first to head to the pub once 2 goals down. Neither of these things help the team. Maybe as a club we have a fanbase where the majority are more suited to having it good in the championship rather than being in the Prem where it is harder.

Absolute garbage there is no more fans leave the Cricket Field Stand than any other stand and it isn't when we go a couple of goals down its when we're dead and buried at 4/5 goals down, it looks like more are leaving that stand due to there only being one staircase in and out of it.
The management and players need to do more to keep the fans in the ground starting with putting enough effort in

[CoolClaret]

I agree that the team have to play their part via their performances, being competitive and getting in front/hanging in games.

But the flip side to that is that I also think this squad/manager massively played their part in getting us promoted and deserve better backing now that theyre going through a tricky spell. And there’ve been games like Saturday where we were one up for the majority of the first half but we’re very quiet.

It’s just my opinion but I think the team deserve more backing than they’ve received.

Shame that we haven’t had a chance to back most of the team that actually got us up in the first place… I think that discontinuity also leads into the atmosphere.

Pretty much every match pre-game people have been scratching their heads on the team selection as soon as it comes out.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Shame that we haven’t had a chance to back most of the team that actually got us up in the first place… I think that discontinuity also leads into the atmosphere.

Pretty much every match pre-game people have been scratching their heads on the team selection as soon as it comes out.

That didn't put people off backing the whole new side at the start of last season.

You can't really think anyone goes to a game thinking I am getting behind the team I support then sees the line up and thinks no I am not.

[boyyanno]

Shame that we haven’t had a chance to back most of the team that actually got us up in the first place… I think that discontinuity also leads into the atmosphere.

Pretty much every match pre-game people have been scratching their heads on the team selection as soon as it comes out.

I think there is a fair point there. Don't get me wrong all of our players should be supported but Tella for example had a really good connection with the fans- we are missing a bit of that this season. Even Barnes used to get the crowd going a bit because he was a bit of a cult hero and master of the dark arts.

[boyyanno]

That didn't put people off backing the whole new side at the start of last season.

You can't really think anyone goes to a game thinking I am getting behind the team I support then sees the line up and thinks no I am not.

See my post above, I do think certain players (through no fault of their own) end up having a bigger effect on the crowd than others.

[CoolClaret]

That didn't put people off backing the whole new side at the start of last season.

You can't really think anyone goes to a game thinking I am getting behind the team I support then sees the line up and thinks no I am not.

Complete different set of scenarios - was the start of a new dawn, entire swathes of the long standing team had left and all the fans knew a rebuild was both necessary and underway.

There's certainly more to football than sticking X Player into Y position and expecting Z result

[claretonthecoast1882]

Complete different set of scenarios - was the start of a new dawn, entire swathes of the long standing team had left and all the fans knew a rebuild was both necessary and underway.

There's certainly more to football than sticking X Player into Y position and expecting Z result

And if someone is going to games only willing to support them when certain players play then the club and other supporters are better off without them.

[CoolClaret]

And if someone is going to games only willing to support them when certain players play then the club and other supporters are better off without them.

You're deliberately being obtuse.

There's a reason players become favourites -

It's hard to continually support a team that falls to pot. It's not like there's even any decent tackles going in or getting stuck in. A goal goes in and the heads drop and they look defeated.

Look at the reaction of the lads after we conceded against Chelsea, it's pretty poor.

[claretonthecoast1882]

You're deliberately being obtuse.

There's a reason players become favourites -

It's hard to continually support a team that falls to pot. It's not like there's even any decent tackles going in or getting stuck in. A goal goes in and the heads drop and they look defeated.

Look at the reaction of the lads after we conceded against Chelsea, it's pretty poor.

The reason players became favourites last season was because we were too good, it is easy to offer support when winning most games. Did you go to Sunderland last season there was very little love in for cult hero Barnes that day and it was even worse on here for a period after that game.

Would the atmosphere be better if a couple of last seasons players were playing but we were still getting the same results ? There just seems to be really strange excuses being used.

Someone put a comment on here from a Luton fan saying Burnley were the noisiest fans at their ground for ages, the support was good also at both games at Forest seems strange the lack of players from last season didn't bother many on those 3 games.

[boyyanno]

The reason players became favourites last season was because we were too good, it is easy to offer support when winning most games. Did you go to Sunderland last season there was very little love in for cult hero Barnes that day and it was even worse on here for a period after that game.

Would the atmosphere be better if a couple of last seasons players were playing but we were still getting the same results ? There just seems to be really strange excuses being used.

Someone put a comment on here from a Luton fan saying Burnley were the noisiest fans at their ground for ages, the support was good also at both games at Forest seems strange the lack of players from last season didn't bother many on those 3 games.

With all due respect but have you ever attended an away day?

I've been to grounds and seen us get battered for 90 mins, lose the game and still not shut up. Away days are completely different to home games, far less about the football on the pitch and far more about the general experience on the day.

Home games are completely different, generally the performance on the pitch reflects the support from the crowd. But I do think it's fair to say some players resonate with a crowd more than others. You can disagree all you want but how on earth do some players become "cult heroes" if that's not the case?

You only need to look at the Tella stuff from over the transfer window to see he resonated with our supporters more than a lot do.

[CoolClaret]

The reason players became favourites last season was because we were too good, it is easy to offer support when winning most games. Did you go to Sunderland last season there was very little love in for cult hero Barnes that day and it was even worse on here for a period after that game.

Would the atmosphere be better if a couple of last seasons players were playing but we were still getting the same results ? There just seems to be really strange excuses being used.

Someone put a comment on here from a Luton fan saying Burnley were the noisiest fans at their ground for ages, the support was good also at both games at Forest seems strange the lack of players from last season didn't bother many on those 3 games.

No strange excuses being used at all, you’re just acting like there’s no nuance at all.

Last years team, albeit at a lower level used to fight for the entirety of the game; I haven’t seen that bar Luton away in all honesty. Lots of heads dropping and players not giving the extra 10%

Away game support is always decent.

Dyche always used to talk about ‘alignment’ and he’s right there. When everyone from fans to back room staff are in alignment then it shows. At the moment a lot of fans are quite rightly scratching their heads at a lot of decisions that have gone on - of course brilliant performances and a strong resolve would change that but that’s not what we’ve been seeing.

For what it’s worth the atmosphere for City at home was electric at the start of the game - definitely died in the second half when we barely had a kick in their half like.

[KRBFC]

Just had a look at that Chelsea defeat at home to Forest - they hadn’t yet gelled as a team but had 77% possession, 21 shots but only 2 on target. Therein was the problem. Yesterday we gifted 2 goals to a side who haven’t been able to hit a barn door with a banjo. Then, when they got ahead, their tails went up. It really is as simple as that.

On the wider point if anyone had offered me level with 17th after getting our initial 8 games out of the way, with other rivals not far ahead either, I’d have taken it on August 1st.

Don’t understand the negativity even though we obviously have a few areas to work on.

Crucial mistakes at key times, we could easily have nicked a point at Newcastle late on if Al Dakhil doesn’t give away the penalty. Who knows what happens if we don’t make two mistakes against Chelsea to give them a lead.

Real naive rookie stuff

[KRBFC]

Chelsea are also a young and new squad - it’s a far cry from their teams with players like : Fabregas, Pedro, Willian, Hazard, Diego Costa, Kante like.

On Dyche getting results? In the 16/17 season we beat 3 teams that finished in the top 8 at home (Liverpool, Everton and Southampton) and nabbed a draw off Chelsea (got a few results away from home as well).

The point is we’re capitulating and making it easy for teams.

The entire ground pretty much knew when we gave that penalty away that we’d fall to pieces and that’s exactly what happened.

You’re comparing the wrong season, the comparisons are stupid but at least compare Dyches first PL season (where we were relegated) with VKs first if you’re gonna do it.

[CoolClaret]

You’re comparing the wrong season, the comparisons are stupid but at least compare Dyches first PL season (where we were relegated) with VKs first if you’re gonna do it.

That side had absolutely nothing spent on it whatsoever and came up completely unexpected after selling our star striker to start the season.

& also we were relegated, the whole point is about if we are to stay up - which we did the second time.

If you want to make that comparison - we drew at home to United, beat Southampton and City at home (all teams finished in the top 7)

Just highlights that it isn’t a certainty to take points off the bottom half home and away and you do need some results against ‘the top eight’ if you’re to stand a chance of staying up.