Cards on the Table…

[claretonthecoast1882]

Thinking back Sean Dyche had wins away against Chelsea,Utd ,home to Liverpool,home to city ,home to Spurs ,VK seems like, he’s picking an experimental team every time we play the big boys,needs to be more pragmatic.

Staggeringly stupid comparison, how many games against them did it take to achieve those wins

[KRBFC]

You were. Doesn't alter the fact that Chelsea have underperformed so far and weren't good enough for half the game yesterday.

I thought we were so passive and frankly sh***, just sat off them, passed in slow triangles around the defence then when it got back to Trafford he punted it back to them. We were slowly passing around without any kind of endgame or purpose, looked more like a time wasting exercise until they applied any kind of pressure and we quickly coughed it up.

so so poor, can’t remember a VK side being so negative in possession. However nothing will sway me, this is firmly a developmental season for VK and the team, staying up would be a bonus but not mandatory. We have to think about the long term plan, fans might not be able to handle relegation and losing games but I’m fine taking 1 step back to take 2 forward.

[mkmel]

I agree with you KRBFC especially the last paragraph

[Clive 1960]

I thought we were so passive and frankly sh***, just sat off them, passed in slow triangles around the defence then when it got back to Trafford he punted it back to them. We were slowly passing around without any kind of endgame or purpose, looked more like a time wasting exercise until they applied any kind of pressure and we quickly coughed it up.

so so poor, can’t remember a VK side being so negative in possession. However nothing will sway me, this is firmly a developmental season for VK and the team, staying up would be a bonus but not mandatory. We have to think about the long term plan, fans might not be able to handle relegation and losing games but I’m fine taking 1 step back to take 2 forward.

my only worry is how much it will cost the club if we were relegated.

[mkmel]

I still believe we will have enough points at the end of the season to be above the likes of Sheffield Utd, Luton, Bournemouth and maybe one or two others

[Clive 1960]

I still believe we will have enough points at the end of the season to be above the likes of Sheffield Utd, Luton, Bournemouth and maybe one or two others

I hope you're right my friend , i always say let's get to Xmas and see where we are and then in January buy a couple of players.

[Dark Cloud]

Too many of the goals we concede are entirely down to our own blunders. Yes, we've played most of our matches so far against the "top sides", even if Man U looked poor on the day and we missed a real opportunity there I felt. We've gifted so, so many of the goals teams have scored. Newcastle for example might have battered us, but yet both goals were total cock ups and we actually should have taken the lead before that. It's extremely frustrating and we just look so naive at times.

[jlup1980]

Let’s be honest the best he achieved was not being relegated and erm yeah it was hoofball into the box anti football with slow old players

This is beyond disrespectful. Whether you liked SD or not he took us into Europe and had two top half PL finishes. He did that on a shoestring budget as well. VK has spent more on transfers in 3 windows than SD did in 10 years.

That said, I don't want SD back. His time was up. However, we should look back on his time as a huge period of success for the club. We were a joy to watch at times; the likes of Trippier and Ings in his early years to Defour, Brady and JBG in the season we finished 7th were absolutely brilliant to watch. Even the Wood and Barnes pairing had a purple patch that was just great to watch.

We all know where it went wrong. The "Dale Stephens" summer. SD was hung out to dry by the Board and had to resort to dull, direct football. The squad needed an overhaul and he got Dale bloody Stephens.

[ervi34]

There's no doubt Kompany's football is more attractive and fun to watch when it works. Some of our games for last season were the best I have ever seen from a Burnley team. However, I think it's fair to say that he's struggling to adapt those ideas PL opponents. How many times this season have we played like he wants us to? First half against Luton, 30 minutes against Chelsea and Forest and that's about it.

People here like to complain that all Dyche knew was hoofing the ball. But please tell me what exactly did we do against Chelsea? We did the exact same thing, except our CB's and GK played 5 passes between them before the long ball. There was no attacking pattern in most of our games and that's the big reason why we don't create enough clear cut opportunities.

Kompany ball is fun to watch when it works but it's clear that is not the case at the moment. So he either has to try and improve his style or slightly tweak it to become more pragmatic and more solid out of possession. We leak goals but we also don't create near enough to compensate such big problem.

[boatshed bill]

There's no doubt Kompany's football is more attractive and fun to watch when it works. Some of our games for last season were the best I have ever seen from a Burnley team. However, I think it's fair to say that he's struggling to adapt those ideas PL opponents. How many times this season have we played like he wants us to? First half against Luton, 30 minutes against Chelsea and Forest and that's about it.

People here like to complain that all Dyche knew was hoofing the ball. But please tell me what exactly did we do against Chelsea? We did the exact same thing, except our CB's and GK played 5 passes between them before the long ball. There was no attacking pattern in most of our games and that's the big reason why we don't create enough clear cut opportunities.

Kompany ball is fun to watch when it works but it's clear that is not the case at the moment. So he either has to try and improve his style or slightly tweak it to become more pragmatic and more solid out of possession. We leak goals but we also don't create near enough to compensate such big problem.

Whatever we are doing now, comparing it to Sean Dyche's Burnley is irrelevant and devisive.

[ervi34]

Whatever we are doing now, comparing it to Sean Dyche's Burnley is irrelevant and devisive.

Why is it irrelevant? The point of this thread is do compare two styles and I find it funny that when Mee used to play long balls it was "Dyche's hoofball" but when Delcroix does the same it's something different.

[boatshed bill]

Why is it irrelevant? The point of this thread is do compare two styles and I find it funny that when Mee used to play long balls it was "Dyche's hoofball" but when Delcroix does the same it's something different.

Because all it's really doing is showcasing the already well known divide. Same old argument.

[SussexDon1inIreland]

VK / New Burnley owners / managers have spent £100m money Sean never had that luxury.

UTC

[RVclaret]

VK / New Burnley owners / managers have spent £100m money Sean never had that luxury.

UTC

Firstly, Sean did have that luxury. Wage bill consistently above 85m and spent 40m+ on new transfers a few times. The season we went down it was a record 90m wage bill while still spending 50m+ on new players.

Secondly, the market has moved on, £40m in 2019 is £80m+ now.

Finally, not sure if you are referring to last season or just this, but we didn’t spend £100m in the summer. It is somewhere around £85-90m.

[CoolClaret]

Firstly, Sean did have that luxury. Wage bill consistently above 85m and spent 40m+ on new transfers a few times. The season we went down it was a record 90m wage bill while still spending 50m+ on new players.

Secondly, the market has moved on, £40m in 2019 is £80m+ now.

Finally, not sure if you are referring to last season or just this, but we didn’t spend £100m in the summer. It is somewhere around £85-90m.

Wage bill up there after 6 seasons in the PL. Not consistently up there and football inflation hasn’t gone up twofold in four years, that’s just nonsense.

Top transfers have gone a bit daft but our market hasn’t moved on too much.

Not to mention there’s a fact that we did also develop players for profit before - Gray, Keane, McNeil, Trippier, Pope bringing in a solid ROI as well as contributing for multiple seasons.

Everyone knows where it went belly up with the squad under the previous regime - covid/looking to sell the club/withdraw investment.

[Big Vinny K]

Wage bill up there after 6 seasons in the PL. Not consistently up there.

You’ve argued this point a few times on this board.
Do you actually know what the wage bill was in the years prior to it reaching £92m ?

[CoolClaret]

You’ve argued this point a few times on this board.
Do you actually know what the wage bill was in the years prior to it reaching £92m ?

I imagine it had a big bumper on the overall squad acheving European football and another top 10 finish (just like it probably would now if we achieved those positions in the league)

[Big Vinny K]

I imagine it had a big bumper on the overall squad acheving European football and another top 10 finish (just like it probably would now if we achieved those positions in the league)

Rather than “imagine” just check what the wage bill was year by year for 5 or 6 years prior to it reaching £92m and you will then see whether the point you keep on making is valid or not.
And wasn’t the £92m a 13 month year ?

[CoolClaret]

Rather than “imagine” just check what the wage bill was year by year for 5 or 6 years prior to it reaching £92m and you will then see whether the point you keep on making is valid or not.
And wasn’t the £92m a 13 month year ?

Without spending all night on it, and I could be wrong here (correct me if I'm wrong) the increased wage bill numbers purported come under 'staff costs' from the accounts unless I'm mistaken and definitely take a big spike between 2016-17 (probably due to promotion/new signings) and again from 2017-18 (probably due to qualifying for Europe/new signings)... The next significant jump was between 2019-2020 and also where wages went from sort of 55% of operating costs in up to a max of 75% before dipping again - taking out the factor that match day revenue was virtually non existent for a season and half I don't believe it ever got to unsustainable levels?

I can only imagine when investment into the playing XI dried up that any contract extensions were heavily incentvised with bonuses on remaining in the PL and such but I could be wrong

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

We have no idea how the contracts were structured and I certainly don't think that's something that the managers get involved with these days.

Be interested to see what the next lot of accounts looks like - we certainly have a lot on the wage bill that's for sure.

[Stayingup]

Dyche had very little £ in his time once garlick set about selling the club
Would we have gone down in 2022 had he been given a £100 million transfer budget
Oh for Mee and Tarks in our central defence

And Pope behind them.

[KRBFC]

I must admit I don’t know if I buy the whole “took us into Europe” stuff.

He took us to the qualifying round and in typical Sean Dyche fashion couldn’t break down weaker opposition who sat behind the ball (Aberdeen) and when we squeaked through, leading into the most important game to take us into Europe, he starts tinkering with the team.

Does the qualifiers for the competition count as the real competition? would that mean San Marino players could technically say they’ve represented their country in a World Cup?

[Stayingup]

I must admit I don’t know if I buy the whole “took us into Europe” stuff.

He took us to the qualifying round and in typical Sean Dyche fashion couldn’t break down weaker opposition who sat behind the ball (Aberdeen) and when we squeaked through, leading into the most important game to take us into Europe, he starts tinkering with the team.

Does the qualifiers for the competition count as the real competition? would that mean San Marino players could technically say they’ve represented their country in a World Cup?

There's me thinking we had beaten Aberdeen.

[boatshed bill]

I must admit I don’t know if I buy the whole “took us into Europe” stuff.

He took us to the qualifying round and in typical Sean Dyche fashion couldn’t break down weaker opposition who sat behind the ball (Aberdeen) and when we squeaked through, leading into the most important game to take us into Europe, he starts tinkering with the team.

Does the qualifiers for the competition count as the real competition? would that mean San Marino players could technically say they’ve represented their country in a World Cup?

Yes, the San Marino players could certainly make that claim...
whether anyone would care is another matter completely.

[Bordeauxclaret]

FFS

[KRBFC]

There's me thinking we had beaten Aberdeen.

“When we squeaked through”

[dsr]

I must admit I don’t know if I buy the whole “took us into Europe” stuff.

He took us to the qualifying round and in typical Sean Dyche fashion couldn’t break down weaker opposition who sat behind the ball (Aberdeen) and when we squeaked through, leading into the most important game to take us into Europe, he starts tinkering with the team.

Does the qualifiers for the competition count as the real competition? would that mean San Marino players could technically say they’ve represented their country in a World Cup?

Yes, the early rounds of the European competitions count as part of the competition proper.

The World Cup is a different competition so there is no reason for it to work the same way. The World Cup qualifiers are distinct from the World Cup Finals and not part of the World Cup Finals. But then, I think you probably knew that, didn't you?

[KRBFC]

Yes, the early rounds of the European competitions count as part of the competition proper.

The World Cup is a different competition so there is no reason for it to work the same way. The World Cup qualifiers are distinct from the World Cup Finals and not part of the World Cup Finals. But then, I think you probably knew that, didn't you?

In any sport, typically the qualifying rounds are to qualify for the tournament/competition.

[dsr]

In any sport, typically the qualifying rounds are to qualify for the tournament/competition.

It's a change of name. To try and say that the first set of matches in one year was in European football and the first set of matches the next wasn't, simply because someone changed the name, is IMO as irrelevant as saying that teams that won the Premier League were in a different competition than those that wone the Football League (or even, for 4 years, the Premiership).

When Burnley qualified, it was universally accepted that the top 7 clubs at the end of the season qualified for Europe. We didn't have to wait until the end of August to find out who qualified in May.

[daveisaclaret]

The semantics of whether we got into Europe are irrelevant. Over the course of a season, the only teams better in England than Burnley were Manchester City, Manchester United, Tottenham, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. If you think that was less of an achievement because you didn't like the way we played against Aberdeen that's fine but please don't expect others to take it seriously.

[Spijed]

I must admit I don’t know if I buy the whole “took us into Europe” stuff.

He took us to the qualifying round and in typical Sean Dyche fashion couldn’t break down weaker opposition who sat behind the ball (Aberdeen) and when we squeaked through, leading into the most important game to take us into Europe, he starts tinkering with the team.

Does the qualifiers for the competition count as the real competition? would that mean San Marino players could technically say they’ve represented their country in a World Cup?

But we still had to qualify by finishing 7th to even get to that stage. San Marino automatically start in the group stages of qualification.

[fidelcastro]

Not a chance we'll ever finish as high as 7th under kompany.

You heard it here first.

[IanMcL]

Well I went to Aberdeen and then Athens for Pireus and felt I was definitely experiencing different cultures and weather! Must have been Europe!

[Ziggy Stardust]

Not a chance we'll ever finish as high as 7th under kompany.

You heard it here first.

That team (Dyches) doesn't finish 7th in this league either. It's pretty pointless comparing the two as we will never know but it is international break and people have nothing else to moan about so here we are.

[fidelcastro]

That team (Dyches) doesn't finish 7th in this league either. It's pretty pointless comparing the two as we will never know but it is international break and people have nothing else to moan about so here we are.

I wasn't moaning.

[boatshed bill]

Not a chance we'll ever finish as high as 7th under kompany.

You heard it here first.

Very little chance of us finishing 7th regardless of who is manager.

[fidelcastro]

Very little chance of us finishing 7th regardless of who is manager.

Quite possibly, which tells you what an amazing achievement it was when we did.

[boatshed bill]

So much more money at the top end now.

[RVclaret]

Quite possibly, which tells you what an amazing achievement it was when we did.

Great achievement I agree though I would highlight the points total was the lowest total for a team finishing 7th in the past 15 years.

[quoonbeatz]

Does the qualifiers for the competition count as the real competition? would that mean San Marino players could technically say they’ve represented their country in a World Cup?

Not even technically - they have. The last 32 is the finals event.

[Big Vinny K]

We qualified for Europe by finishing 7th in arguably the toughest league in the world. We got knocked out by a team with a champions league pedigree.

San Marino play in the qualifying group for the World Cup purely by their existence as a recognised footballing country by FIFA.

San Marino “could” qualify for the World Cup tournament in the same way that Padiham could qualify for Europe if they won the FA cup.

It’s takes a really strange type of person to compare the two to try and prove a point in criticising the fantastic achievement of the team they support (it’s a pretty dumb argument even if you are taking the michael out of a rival teams achievements)

[KRBFC]

We qualified for Europe by finishing 7th in arguably the toughest league in the world. We got knocked out by a team with a champions league pedigree.

San Marino play in the qualifying group for the World Cup purely by their existence as a recognised footballing country by FIFA.

San Marino “could” qualify for the World Cup tournament in the same way that Padiham could qualify for Europe if they won the FA cup.

It’s takes a really strange type of person to compare the two to try and prove a point in criticising the fantastic achievement of the team they support (it’s a pretty dumb argument even if you are taking the michael out of a rival teams achievements)

Here we go again, can’t help yourself, who’s the real weirdo here?

[Ziggy Stardust]

I wasn't moaning.

That wasn't aimed at you just the usual suspects and those that only pop up when things aren't going to plan.

[Big Vinny K]

Here we go again, can’t help yourself, who’s the real weirdo here?

Talk sh-ite and expect people to pull you up.
Whether that’s me or others on this thread who have responded to your stupid comments.

But yep you crack on with a pretence that I’m stalking you.

[KRBFC]

Talk sh-ite and expect people to pull you up.
Whether that’s me or others on this thread who have responded to your stupid comments.

But yep you crack on with a pretence that I’m stalking you.

You said it

[jrgbfc]

Not a chance we'll ever finish as high as 7th under kompany.

You heard it here first.

Our side that finished 7th would probably be scratching around in the bottom half now the league has got that much stronger.

[dougcollins]

Last season was amazing, which makes this one all the more frustrating. So far.

[CoolClaret]

Our side that finished 7th would probably be scratching around in the bottom half now the league has got that much stronger.

Just not true though is it?

Keeper is now playing Champions League football, two centre halves be in midtable clubs, Cork & JBG still on our books (some people clamouring for Cork to come back in) and of course Steven Defour who was just magic the first part of that season

[jrgbfc]

Just not true though is it?

Keeper is now playing Champions League football, two centre halves be in midtable clubs, Cork & JBG still on our books (some people clamouring for Cork to come back in) and of course Steven Defour who was just magic the first part of that season

No way that team could finish ahead of the current Brighton, West Ham or Villa sides. We had Kevin Long playing a fair bit that year, Lowton, Hendrick were both regulars. The league has moved on massively.

[yTib]

so we didn't qualify for europe after all?

this forum gets dafter which each passing day.

[CoolClaret]

No way that team could finish ahead of the current Brighton, West Ham or Villa sides. We had Kevin Long playing a fair bit that year, Lowton, Hendrick were both regulars. The league has moved on massively.

I don’t buy all this completely undermining previous achievements because we’ve moved on.

A team is stronger than their parts - Brighton are playing Jason Steele and Lewis Dunk - did you have them down for playing for a team that would qualify for Europe in 6 years time?

We beat Conte’s Chelsea away, results against the best United have been since Fergie left.

City centurion season - no one is undermining that achievement

It was a damned good achievement and as good as it gets for Burnley in the top flight whilst the money is as mad as it is st the top.