20 MPH in Wales

[Lip]

I was down in Snowdonia and on Anglesey last weekend and the 20 mph limit makes perfect sense.
The old 30 limits are still there except for the more heavily populated areas and around shops and schools where, quite rightly, pedestrians rule and not car drivers.
You lose a couple of minutes driving through a town at 20mph if that.

Exactly Eddie,these feckless ones on here know "NADA"

[evensteadiereddie]

Let's face it, yet again, this ripple of objection is politically motivated.
Who in their right mind would consider a safety measure as being unacceptable?
It's as stupid as the rubbish that was talked when compulsory seat belts and the breathalyser were introduced.

[Roosterbooster]

If this wasn't such an important issue, reading this thread would be hilarious

A perfect example of why charlatans are sick of experts

[boatshed bill]

Saving lives then.

If you want to see it that way, and then only in certain circumstances.

[CaptJohn]

I'm seeing a mixed bag of opinions but from my perspective 20 mph should be reserved for heavy pedestrian areas and schools. Of course Mr Drakeford has the moral high ground and will say that the whole exercise is to save lives which is admirable. However if he feels so strongly he should ban traffic altogether and while he's at it he should ban all trains because people do get killed on railways and of course there have been air disasters so stop all air traffic as well. Mr Drakeford can then sleep soundly at night knowing that he's saved hundreds of lives. Of course Wales will go back to the dark ages and millions of lives will be lost but not to any form of transport accident whatsover. Of course I'm being facetious but I'm sure you get the drift.
Life in general is a risky business but risks can be managed and the ALARP principle (As low as reasonably possible) used so as not to inconvenience the many and drive costs in orbit.

[Rileybobs]

I'm seeing a mixed bag of opinions but from my perspective 20 mph should be reserved for heavy pedestrian areas and schools. Of course Mr Drakeford has the moral high ground and will say that the whole exercise is to save lives which is admirable. However if he feels so strongly he should ban traffic altogether and while he's at it he should ban all trains because people do get killed on railways and of course there have been air disasters so stop all air traffic as well. Mr Drakeford can then sleep soundly at night knowing that he's saved hundreds of lives. Of course Wales will go back to the dark ages and millions of lives will be lost but not to any form of transport accident whatsover. Of course I'm being facetious but I'm sure you get the drift.
Life in general is a risky business but risks can be managed and the ALARP principle (As low as reasonably possible) used so as not to inconvenience the many and drive costs in orbit.

Isn’t the point that lives can be saved and communities can be made safer and more pleasant for the cost of an almost negligible difference in journey time?

[Lip]

Isn’t the point that lives can be saved and communities can be made safer and more pleasant for the cost of an almost negligible difference in journey time?

That's the whole point,but the objecters will be the ones who like to speed and rush about ,a bit like those who will do 40 in a 30 mph area They don't give a feck about saving lives.

[boatshed bill]

That's the whole point,but the objecters will be the ones who like to speed and rush about ,a bit like those who will do 40 in a 30 mph area They don't give a feck about saving lives.

That's a bit of a wild assumption really.
And if we accept that cars are dangerous perhaps we should scrap them completely

[NCClaret]

I have mixed views on the new 20mph limit and question how and why it has been introduced. I do so from an informed position as resident in Wales. I don't " ... like to speed and rush about a bit" - I do care very much about saving lives. Keep your crass comments to yourself

[Paul Waine]

Over 20 years ago I lived in Den Haag. They had 30 kph speed limits in all residential roads.

20 mph limits started to appear in south west London a number of years ago. At first they were very only in occasional areas, but they included some main roads through smaller villages. 20 mph limits are now very common and because we are used to them being in most places very easy to manage and observe the speed limits. There are issues in some places with the new signage. I'm not sure if all the start/end of 20 mph limits are clearly signed as per Highway Code. But, "20 mph" is nearly always painted on the roads and there are lots of small repeater "20 mph" signs. OK, there are a few roads where I think the 20 mph limit is overdone, but not too many of them. On short journeys it doesn't make any difference whether the speed limit is 30 mph or 20 mph. Longer journeys, of course, will be on dual carriages and motorways. It took me 3 hours to drive the 50 miles from home to Luton two weeks ago - it's a good day when traffic is moving on the M25 and the M1 late afternoon.

[evensteadiereddie]

Cars aren't dangerous, it's the selfish morons driving them unfortunately.
In an ideal world you wouldn't have to impose a limit as low as this but we've all seen how stupid and selfish some drives can be.

[boatshed bill]

I've been involved in several (probably 6) road traffic accidents, all but oneat under 30mph, possibly under 20.
Ridiculous, but I promise it's true.

[Rileybobs]

I've been involved in several (probably 6) road traffic accidents, all but oneat under 30mph, possibly under 20.
Ridiculous, but I promise it's true.

I’m guessing that nobody was seriously injured in the collisions at under 20mph?

[Taffy on the wing]

I've been involved in several (probably 6) road traffic accidents, all but oneat under 30mph, possibly under 20.
Ridiculous, but I promise it's true.

Have you ever tried using your mirrors?

[boatshed bill]

I’m guessing that nobody was seriously injured in the collisions at under 20mph?

Well I was deeply hurt when my favourite Cortina got written off.

[boatshed bill]

Have you ever tried using your mirrors?

Do they work when you are parked up and someone drives into you?

[Taffy on the wing]

You said "road traffic accidents"......maybe put the cell phone down...try using the windscreen & mirrors to raise your awareness of what's going on around you. (probably 6) you don't remember?
Maybe you need to look "in the mirror" for the problem.

[Lowbankclaret]

I think the most baffling thing about the outrage around this is that it seems to be entirely English, despite the Welsh government being elected with the policy in their manifesto.

Last weekend I sold a car to a couple from Wales. They were raging about it. His journey to work has gone from 20 minutes to 50 minutes . Most of it stationary with the car putting out more fumes. He is using more petrol per journey. He did say everyone is raging about it. There was only one line in the manifesto and everyone missed it.
He said there was 3 million people in Wales and 500,000 had already signed a petition to get it overturned.

It’s using more fuel, putting emissions up. People are getting angry and overtaking dangerously.

It’s got more dangerous not less.

[Lowbankclaret]

IMG_1911.png (447.89 KiB) Viewed 2630 times

[Stayingup]

Driving at 20mph is better for the planet than driving at 30mph.

It sn't.

[boatshed bill]

You said "road traffic accidents"......maybe put the cell phone down...try using the windscreen & mirrors to raise your awareness of what's going on around you. (probably 6) you don't remember?
Maybe you need to look "in the mirror" for the problem.

Thanks for the advice. Over 50 years of driving from Lambrettas to JCBs on our roads and I never knew about mirrors.

[Rileybobs]

It sn't.

What are you basing this on?

[Lowbankclaret]

What are you basing this on?

The gent I sold a car too.
He said his work journey has gone from 20 minutes to 50 minutes most at crawling pace and his petrol use has gone up by 60-70% per week. That’s a massive increase in emissions over the 3 million people in Wales.

[boatshed bill]

Does lowering the speed limit make those who would exceed it behave better?
If I was in charge I'd put a 0 on the end of all speeding fines... and make speed aware courses compulsory and at a much higher cost.

[Rileybobs]

The gent I sold a car too.
He said his work journey has gone from 20 minutes to 50 minutes most at crawling pace and his petrol use has gone up by 60-70% per week. That’s a massive increase in emissions over the 3 million people in Wales.

Definitely sounds legit.

[claret2018]

The gent I sold a car too.
He said his work journey has gone from 20 minutes to 50 minutes most at crawling pace and his petrol use has gone up by 60-70% per week. That’s a massive increase in emissions over the 3 million people in Wales.

There you have it, definitive proof.

[Rileybobs]

To be fair though, I live in West Yorkshire and even my travel has been impacted by this. Since the 20mph limit was introduced in Wales just after the school summer holidays came to an end, the time it takes for me to drive into work has almost doubled.

[Lowbankclaret]

There you have it, definitive proof.

Well the petition is proof people are fed up.

[evensteadiereddie]

As I said, this petition will be based largely on political grounds.
Sad thing is for the selfish gits, they are in the minority

.
My recent experience was that drivers were adhering to 20mph, maybe a little over., with no difficulty.

Had to laugh at the anecdote of the guy's journey time to work being doubled because of this new limit...
As if.

[Jamesy]

As pretty as Wales is, we should boycott it and take our custom elsewhere. Drakeford is the Welsh version of Nicola Sturgeon. Although he is significantly more attractive than wee Krankie.

[daveisaclaret]

IMG_1911.png

Do you not think English blowhards with ulterior motives are signing this petition?

[taio]

Do you not think English blowhards with ulterior motives are signing this petition?

I would have thought that more Welsh than English citizens have signed the petition. In any event, there have been in-person protests by Welsh citizens in Wales. I believe there's also a counter petition for those in favour of the 20mph restrictions that's attracted a tiny fraction of the petition against the reduced speed limit.

[Lowbankclaret]

Do you not think English blowhards with ulterior motives are signing this petition?

He did say about 20,000 Brits signed it, no idea how he knew that.

[daveisaclaret]

I would have thought that more Welsh than English citizens have signed the petition. In any event, there have been in-person protests by Welsh citizens in Wales. I believe there's also a counter petition for those in favour of the 20mph restrictions that's attracted a tiny fraction of the petition against the reduced speed limit.

I would imagine most people in favour of it realise they don't need to sign a petition in favour of something that's already happened.

[RHansburyEsq]

The gent I sold a car too.
He said his work journey has gone from 20 minutes to 50 minutes most at crawling pace and his petrol use has gone up by 60-70% per week. That’s a massive increase in emissions over the 3 million people in Wales.

My mates friend’s uncle’s secret lover’ sister’s brother in law. Utter tosh. Again, huge swathes of England have 20mph speed limits and it makes sod all difference to journey times and reduces casualties.

[taio]

I would imagine most people in favour of it realise they don't need to sign a petition in favour of something that's already happened.

I agree. But I would also imagine that the strength of feeling about the 20mph limits in Wales is more prominent in Wales than in England.

[dougcollins]

I'd ban electric cars, way too dangerous even in a 20 zone - you can't hear them.

[Lowbankclaret]

As I said, this petition will be based largely on political grounds.
Sad thing is for the selfish gits, they are in the minority

.
My recent experience was that drivers were adhering to 20mph, maybe a little over., with no difficulty.

Had to laugh at the anecdote of the guy's journey time to work being doubled because of this new limit...
As if.

So traffic has to slow down by 33% , leading to bigger jams in rush hour. How is it not possible that travel times could increase by over 33%. Exponential probability. Me thinks.

[Lowbankclaret]

My mates friend’s uncle’s secret lover’ sister’s brother in law. Utter tosh. Again, huge swathes of England have 20mph speed limits and it makes sod all difference to journey times and reduces casualties.

Perhaps you don’t understand, in Wales it’s every 30 limit that’s now 20 mph. Just think about that, that’s 90% of Burnley and the surrounding area.

[Lowbankclaret]

My mates friend’s uncle’s secret lover’ sister’s brother in law. Utter tosh. Again, huge swathes of England have 20mph speed limits and it makes sod all difference to journey times and reduces casualties.

And it was a person who lives in wales, not a distant relative. A direct affected person.

[daveisaclaret]

I agree. But I would also imagine that the strength of feeling about the 20mph limits in Wales is more prominent in Wales than in England.

Yet here we are in a thread of English blokes denying studies about the impact, moaning their little hearts out and some of them don't even seem to understand what the changes are.

[RHansburyEsq]

And it was a person who lives in wales, not a distant relative. A direct affected person.

I live in Calderdale, less than 30mins from the Turf. It is 20mph here virtually everywhere that used to be 30. I’m a directly affected person and really honestly it’s limited impact for a 30% reduction in casualties.

[taio]

Yet here we are in a thread of English blokes denying studies about the impact, moaning their little hearts out and some of them don't even seem to understand what the changes are.

People talking about it on here doesn't mean there aren't very many Welsh citizens who are strongly opposed. Or are you still firmly of the view that the outrage about the 20mph speed restrictions in Wales is coming entirely from the English?

I agree it is bizarre when people choose to ignore good evidence just because it doesn't support their view and, more so, when people conclude that the Welsh government has not done this because of the health and safety of its citizens.

[aggi]

I always wonder how bad the drivers are that claim it's really difficult, even dangerous, to have to drive at 20mph. It's a pretty basic skill.

The cars are more efficient at 30mph stuff does have a slight basis in fact. For older cars traveling at a steady 30mph can be slightly more efficient than 20mph. This is only true if you're not braking or accelerating though, so not at all representative of the urban environment where 20mph limits are in use.

Plus of course the number of hybrids and electric cars is ever increasing.

[Burnley Ace]

Why the surprise, it was in the Welsh Labour election manifesto.

[SirBob]

Living in wales I haven’t met a single person in favour of the new 20mph speed limit.

The the most annoying thing about the 20mph speed limit is the drivers who are unable to maintain it, I found most people are ignoring it and driving somewhere in the middle at around 25 mph, then there about 20% of people sticking to it and then the absolute weapons driving at 15 mph because they seem to be terrified of breaking the new rules.

I don’t know why they couldn’t have lowered it to 25mph, 20 is painfully slow and unnecessary.

[taio]

Why the surprise, it was in the Welsh Labour election manifesto.

I doubt the majority of the electorate read the full manifesto, which will been a very long document. I think the 20mph restriction intention was one sentence in a circa 100 page document.

[Lowbankclaret]

Why the surprise, it was in the Welsh Labour election manifesto.

Have you read all 4 main manifesto for the next UK election??
My advise do not miss a 12 word sentence, might come back to bite you..

[Jakubclaret]

Your study doesn't 'prove' anything. That's the nature of scientific research.

It's not just that anybody can find any old article to support their way of thinking if you look hard enough. He's obviously looked for something to support his way of thinking & hey bingo there you have it. If you typed into google what your beliefs were somebody somewhere would be supporting that view.

[Rileybobs]

It's not just that anybody can find any old article to support their way of thinking if you look hard enough. He's obviously looked for something to support his way of thinking & hey bingo there you have it. If you typed into google what your beliefs were somebody somewhere would be supporting that view.

Except I didn’t have a way of thinking until I found evidence to support that a 20mph speed limit causes less emissions than a 30mph speed limit. You appear to be projecting, and as ever it’s of great comfort to my confidence in this argument to be on the opposite side to you.