THB

[Longsidejono]

Traff will convince him in January, you can only win though especially when you are young you have to have the experience locked in already, and if you make a mistake you are out robot

[Rileybobs]

Al-Dakhil was rightly selected because THB was injured and then coming back from injury. And with the league won and it looking unlikely THB would be here this season it was correct to play Al-Dakhil - that was also a key factor. If THB was staying there would have been a strong case for him coming straight back in once fully fit. And given our performances this season the case the case would be even stronger - not sure how it could be seen as hard to make a case for him starting this season.

The case is that I think VK preferred Beyer and Al Dakhil to THB, thus he wouldn’t be in our first eleven. We just disagree, that’s all.

[taio]

The case is that I think VK preferred Beyer and Al Dakhil to THB, thus he wouldn’t be in our first eleven. We just disagree, that’s all.

I agreed with what you said at the time:

If we are confident that we will retain THB in some capacity next season then there’s a good case that he would get back into the starting eleven. If not then why would we prioritise him ahead of our own player considering the title is won?

And I know it’s a squad game, but fairly normal to have a first choice central defensive pairing.

[Rileybobs]

I agreed with what you said at the time:

Sorry, don’t understand the context of that post or when I made it.

[taio]

Sorry, don’t understand the context of that post or when I made it.

I'm not sure of the context but the timing was on his return from injury. In any case you make the same point i.e. that there was a good case for THB starting this season but noting that he may not start at the back end of last season if he wasn't staying.

[Rileybobs]

I'm not sure of the context but the timing was on his return from injury. In any case you make the same point i.e. that there was a good case for THB starting this season but noting that he may not start at the back end of last season if he wasn't staying.

Not really sure where this is going to be honest. My point is that I don’t think THB would be starting the season ahead of AAD, you think he would. Neither of us know so no point going round in circles.

[daveisaclaret]

I think the point is you understood in March that THB would get in our team if we were keeping him but you have changed your mind now.

[taio]

Not really sure where this is going to be honest. My point is that I don’t think THB would be starting the season ahead of AAD, you think he would. Neither of us know so no point going round in circles.

My point is that whatever side of the opinion you're on, it would not be hard to make a case for him starting now. Not remotely hard - in fact it'd be quite easy to make such a case.

[claretspice]

My point is that whatever side of the opinion you're on, it would not be hard to make a case for him starting now. Not remotely hard - in fact it'd be quite easy to make such a case.

If we had THB now, would he be starting? Possibly.

Would he be the answer to our defensive shortcomings? That's a different question and I think the answer is no. THB wasn't especially dominant in the air or quick. In a team which looks a bit short on physicality, I think its a tough sell to suggest he's the sort of defender we need.

[Rileybobs]

I think the point is you understood in March that THB would get in our team if we were keeping him but you have changed your mind now.

I don’t think that’s what I said, certainly not in the post that taio has quoted. But yes, I have changed my mind since March, which seems entirely reasonable given that 7 months have passed since.

[Rileybobs]

My point is that whatever side of the opinion you're on, it would not be hard to make a case for him starting now. Not remotely hard - in fact it'd be quite easy to make such a case.

I’m pretty sure he would be starting now given the injuries to Beyer and Ekdal.

[CoolClaret]

If we had THB now, would he be starting? Possibly.

Would he be the answer to our defensive shortcomings? That's a different question and I think the answer is no. THB wasn't especially dominant in the air or quick. In a team which looks a bit short on physicality, I think its a tough sell to suggest he's the sort of defender we need.

He’d get stuck in and put himself about a bit.

Pretty good tackler actually and he’d at least let the other team there in for a game… I think he got better in the air as well and I’d argue in this league we face a lot less balls into the area / out balls launched long.

[claretspice]

He’d get stuck in and put himself about a bit.

Pretty good tackler actually and he’d at least let the other team there in for a game… I think he got better in the air as well and I’d argue in this league we face a lot less balls into the area / out balls launched long.

We face far fewer direct teams but given we have less ability to dictate/control games we're facing more crosses overall I think. THB's biggest weakness wasn't in the air though, it was the fact he was a touch slow off the mark. But he wasn't especially dominant and I think you've got to tick one of those two boxes. Just getting stuck in isn't enough.

[CoolClaret]

We face far fewer direct teams but given we have less ability to dictate/control games we're facing more crosses overall I think. THB's biggest weakness wasn't in the air though, it was the fact he was a touch slow off the mark. But he wasn't especially dominant and I think you've got to tick one of those two boxes. Just getting stuck in isn't enough.

I agree that he lacked a yard (especially accelerating) - I made note of it a few times, was evident against Hull at home last season.

He definitely put himself about more than what we’ve seen of our defenders this season and he was vocal. Lacking those qualities right now.

[ClaretAL]

I think he would bring leadership and organisation to the back line and CDM but also the important line breaking passes especially the diagonal he used to do

[Big Vinny K]

Can’t believe there is even a debate as to whether he would be starting in our team now. I’d rather have THB and Taylor as our centre half’s than the 2 who started yesterday.
Really am struggling to understand our transfer spend strategy in the summer - saving a few million to buy O’Shea instead of THB when there was zero evidence O’Shea was good enough and he would also have to adapt to our way of playing.

know it’s been said many times already but one less winger and we get THB instead of O’Shea.
One less winger and no Ramsay and we get THB and Tella.

Even the argument about saleable assets makes no sense to me. We haven’t bought cheap like we did in the first summer and it’s impossible to fit all those players in anyway so how are you increasing their value. In fact as we speak would not be surprised if we are looking at that £100m spend in the summer being nearer to £50m in player values.
At least with THB and Tella they are proven in the championship !!

[claretspice]

Can’t believe there is even a debate as to whether he would be starting in our team now. I’d rather have THB and Taylor as our centre half’s than the 2 who started yesterday.
Really am struggling to understand our transfer spend strategy in the summer - saving a few million to buy O’Shea instead of THB when there was zero evidence O’Shea was good enough and he would also have to adapt to our way of playing.

know it’s been said many times already but one less winger and we get THB instead of O’Shea.
One less winger and no Ramsay and we get THB and Tella.

Even the argument about saleable assets makes no sense to me. We haven’t bought cheap like we did in the first summer and it’s impossible to fit all those players in anyway so how are you increasing their value. In fact as we speak would not be surprised if we are looking at that £100m spend in the summer being nearer to £50m in player values.
At least with THB and Tella they are proven in the championship !!

O'Shea was proven in the Championship, and by all accounts excelled in a team playing a very high line last season. Different game in the PL and THB has weaknesses that meant there were real doubts about his ability to step up to this level.

[CoolClaret]

O'Shea was proven in the Championship, and by all accounts excelled in a team playing a very high line last season. Different game in the PL and THB has weaknesses that meant there were real doubts about his ability to step up to this level.

I think ‘excelled’ is pushing it.

Absolutely nobody watching the Championship last season thought,

‘Yep, Dara O’Shea has done enough to get a PL move’

[Big Vinny K]

O'Shea was proven in the Championship, and by all accounts excelled in a team playing a very high line last season. Different game in the PL and THB has weaknesses that meant there were real doubts about his ability to step up to this level.

Excelled ?
Really ?
Not heard that description about any West Brom players in last couple of years tbh.
I do think THB was excellent for us and for England u21s - 2 teams that had fantastic seasons rather than the mediocrity that West Brom dished up.

[claretspice]

I think ‘excelled’ is pushing it.

Absolutely nobody watching the Championship last season thought,

‘Yep, Dara O’Shea has done enough to get a PL move’

Well that's factually wrong because Kompany thought exactly that. My understanding was that he was WBA's best player after Corberan came in last season although of course I can't vouch for that.

Look, I am not convinced by O'Shea. Not sure anyone can be. But I can absolutely see why Kompany thought he might be a better bet than THB. Is there an argument that we'd have been better looking at someone else? Too right there is.

[CoolClaret]

Well that's factually wrong because Kompany thought exactly that. My understanding was that he was WBA's best player after Corberan came in last season although of course I can't vouch for that.

Look, I am not convinced by O'Shea. Not sure anyone can be. But I can absolutely see why Kompany thought he might be a better bet than THB. Is there an argument that we'd have been better looking at someone else? Too right there is.

Obviously apart from VK - I thought that would be pretty self evident without having to point it out.

Baggies fans weren’t even bothered that he left for the most part.

https://youtu.be/U6_eWVVBHLQ?si=QsgEb4fvvZLMQXpg

Rewatch the build up to the first goal - notice anything?

[Big Vinny K]

I have no idea how he can think O’Shea was better than THB.
One player was excellent for him and England for teams that won everything. And that same player had presumably been excellent for him previously (hence why he brought him in last season)

And one player has been in a bang average team that has done nothing for the last couple of years.

Just do not get it…and didn’t get it in the summer either. The only reason I thought we were not getting THB was because City were putting a silly price on his head. But then he goes back to the league below us for a price well within what we can afford.

[DCWat]

Excelled ?
Really ?
Not heard that description about any West Brom players in last couple of years tbh.
I do think THB was excellent for us and for England u21s - 2 teams that had fantastic seasons rather than the mediocrity that West Brom dished up.

I’m not sure what the relevance of how mediocre, or otherwise, West Brom were last year, is.

I’m not convinced that it’s centre halves that are needed as a priority, although admittedly, I wouldn’t be adverse to us bringing in a much more dominant, experienced player for the back line.

Our bigger issues are in the centre of midfield and in the full back positions.

Throwing Harwood-Bellis into this team wouldn’t really solve any of the issues that we are seeing week in and week out.

We also appear to lack a real leader - I don’t really see that with our older heads, certainly not those that are featuring more regularly. With such a young squad, not having a leader on the pitch is a more significant shortcoming.

Cork is probably the only one out of Taylor, Cullen, Brownhill and Rodriguez that is anywhere near to being a leader, from what I can see.

[CoolClaret]

Poetic irony that our goal at West Brom last season is from a Muric long ball to Tella leaving O’Shea in the dust before rounding the keeper.

[Big Vinny K]

I’m not sure what the relevance of how mediocre, or otherwise, West Brom were last year, is.

I’m not convinced that it’s centre halves that are needed as a priority, although admittedly, I wouldn’t be adverse to us bringing in a much more dominant, experienced player for the back line.

Our bigger issues are in the centre of midfield and in the full back positions.

Throwing Harwood-Bellis into this team wouldn’t really solve any of the issues that we are seeing week in and week out.

We also appear to lack a real leader - I don’t really see that with our older heads, certainly not those that are featuring more regularly. With such a young squad, not having a leader on the pitch is a more significant shortcoming.

Cork is probably the only one out of Taylor, Cullen, Brownhill and Rodriguez that is anywhere near to being a leader, from what I can see.

THB is a leader though.
I agree we have big problems in other parts of the pitch too but you cannot say that we have not been anything but poor in defence this season. Injuries have not helped but Al Dak and O’Shea have contributed significantly to a number of the goals we have conceded.

Not saying for a minute THB would have solved all these problems but I do think he would have made us better from both a playing point of view and also his leadership on the pitch. He was a big vocal character last season and he has a lot of confidence on the pitch.

[claretspice]

THB is a leader though.
I agree we have big problems in other parts of the pitch too but you cannot say that we have not been anything but poor in defence this season. Injuries have not helped but Al Dak and O’Shea have contributed significantly to a number of the goals we have conceded.

Not saying for a minute THB would have solved all these problems but I do think he would have made us better from both a playing point of view and also his leadership on the pitch. He was a big vocal character last season and he has a lot of confidence on the pitch.l

I think this point about THB's leadership last season is debatable but in any event OShea was captain of WBA under two different managers last season so this seems an odd point on which to elevate THB. I think there's a perfectly legitimate argument we needed a better option than THB or O'Shea but I don't think OShea has necessarily been our biggest weakness this season and I certainly don't buy the argument THB would materially improve the team if he replaced OShea tomorrow. We're talking two players with pretty similar profiles.

[ClaretAL]

I would like to see O’Shea given a go at right back which would give so much utility around the back line in the pivot and also if beyer or leak go on a line breaking run. I just don’t see the Roberts thing, he doesn’t offer anything when he does pivot to mid field.

[DCWat]

THB is a leader though.
I agree we have big problems in other parts of the pitch too but you cannot say that we have not been anything but poor in defence this season. Injuries have not helped but Al Dak and O’Shea have contributed significantly to a number of the goals we have conceded.

Not saying for a minute THB would have solved all these problems but I do think he would have made us better from both a playing point of view and also his leadership on the pitch. He was a big vocal character last season and he has a lot of confidence on the pitch.

I’m less concerned about the centre of defence because of the injuries that we have had and the lack of cover that they have received from midfield.

With a quality holding midfielder and a couple of full backs who can offer something more defensively and contribute further up the pitch, I think that the defence will look far less vulnerable / be less exposed.

I don’t see THB as the answer to our problems either as a defender or a leader.

[Vegas Claret]

I think Boden mentioned on that podcast there was a worry about his pace.

I have a mate who knows someone at the club who is involved with transfer decisions (that's as specific as I'll get) and that is exactly what he was told, they didn't think he was quick enough and represented too much of a risk at the value

I'm not sure I agree. I'd add his personality and connection with the fans is massively missed (as it is with other players)

[ksrclaret]

I have a mate who knows someone at the club who is involved with transfer decisions (that's as specific as I'll get) and that is exactly what he was told, they didn't think he was quick enough and represented too much of a risk at the value

I'm not sure I agree. I'd add his personality and connection with the fans is massively missed (as it is with other players)

That’s a great point about personality and connection with the fans.

Harwood-Bellis and Tella had that in spades, and Maatsen formed a strong bond as well later in the season.

I know it’s harder when the team is losing so often, but these new players don’t seem to have anything about them. It’s all very sanitary.

[taio]

Well that's factually wrong because Kompany thought exactly that. My understanding was that he was WBA's best player after Corberan came in last season although of course I can't vouch for that.

A poll of West Brom fans had had their top three performers last season as Jed Wallace, Jayson Molumby and Okay Yokuslu. Separately, Molumby was voted the supporters' player of the season and Yokuslu won the players' player of the season.