Resigned to Relegation

[CoolClaret]

Just saying outside of the Burnley echo chamber fans/analysts of other teams think we're an absolute mess bordering on a joke.

I think if we didn't have a media darling in VK who's getting very soft questions off the press then we'd a hell of a lot more scrutiny.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Just saying outside of the Burnley echo chamber fans/analysts of other teams think we're an absolute mess bordering on a joke.

I think if we didn't have a media darling in VK who's getting very soft questions off the press then we'd a hell of a lot more scrutiny.

Let’s face it VK is so far out of his depth it’s unreal.

[CoolClaret]

Just saying outside of the Burnley echo chamber fans/analysts of other teams think we're an absolute mess bordering on a joke.

I think if we didn't have a media darling in VK who's getting very soft questions off the press then we'd have a hell of a lot more scrutiny*

Missed a word

Let’s face it VK is so far out of his depth it’s unreal.

it's rough

[Newcastleclaret93]

Missed a word



it's rough

A better manager keeps this team up no problem in my opinion.

There’s some real talent in the squad but VK just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.

[Dyched]

What is “potential”?

Potential is something that has become a bit obsessive in football like stats have over the past 10/15 years. More often than not potential never gets transformed into what ever it is that you thought it would. Most players by their early 20s have reached their ceiling of their ability, unless a remarkable set of circumstances occurs.

For example, Marcus Rashford. Don’t get me wrong he’s a good player, but has he improved since he made his debut? He has, but he hasn’t fulfilled that “potential” that he may have shown. It’s not down to not working hard, or trying to improve it just that he hit the ceiling of what he personally can do. To get to where most thought he would be at would take someone (a coach/manager) to make him see things differently. So few managers have the ability to do that ad that’s the problem. There’s also the environment he’s in. Had he come up through the Man City ranks and Guardiola had he for these past 6/7 years he’d be at a far higher level performance wise that he is now.

Really what I’m trying to say is, lot’s of our new, younger players have hit their ceiling for ability. It needs Kompany to be able to improve them more mentally on how to play. To play 1, 2, 3 moves ahead. Not be reactive but proactive in play. To have confidence in what they are doing. To have a strong manager who firmly believes in they way he wants to play. Right now our form will be having a negative effect on so many of them. There’s too many of them in the team, in the spotlight and the pressure on them is too great for their games to improve. The longer our form continues the more they’ll suffer, heads drop, ears stop listening and no improvement isn’t made.

This team is crying out for 2/3 older heads to just calm things down a little. Personally in the summer I’d have done all out to try and bring Mee back in (or similar head) and offer him a player/coach role. Keep Barnes. This team with Mee, Cork and Barnes in the 11 improves. You take 3 younger lads out of the spotlight, the ones who remain can gain the confidence they need, mood is lifted then their in a place where the manager can go on and improve the mental side of their game.

I played at a decent level (no where near PL level) but okay. I had “potential” or thought I did, but went 3/4 years doing nothing simply because our team was getting beat, scared of getting the ball, making mistakes, over thinking simple 5 yard passes. Scared of making the wrong decision, wrong run. Nothing improved.

[CoolClaret]

A better manager keeps this team up no problem in my opinion.

There’s some real talent in the squad but VK just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.

Think that's harsh.

Needs to not die on the hill of pure total football purism though.

We're like De Boer's Palace.

This 'we play football the proper way' schtick doesn't work when you have a goal difference of -19 after 11 games.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Think that's harsh.

Needs to not die on the hill of pure total football purism though.

We're like De Boer's Palace.

This 'we play football the proper way' schtick doesn't work when you have a goal difference of -19 after 11 games.

I honestly don’t think it’s Harsh. I honestly think even Roy Hodgson could come in and keep us up.

VK is just so far out of his depth. Serious question do you see him developing into a prem manager? I can’t think of a single manager that has failed this badly that has gone on to have a good career at this level.

[CoolClaret]

I honestly don’t think it’s Harsh. I honestly think even Roy Hodgson could come in and keep us up.

VK is just so far out of his depth. Serious question do you see him developing into a prem manager? I can’t think of a single manager that has failed this badly that has gone on to have a good career at this level.

I just can't get over how utterly sh1t we are. it's bonkers.

No team that has come up with over 100 points has ever been relegated in the following season. Just truly mind boggling.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I just can't get over how utterly sh1t we are. it's bonkers.

No team that has come up with over 100 points has ever been relegated in the following season. Just truly mind boggling.

That point further exasperates mine.

VK just isn’t learning. Sitting in the ground yesterday everyone could see the issues apart from VK.

[Jakubclaret]

As poor as we are it’s a stretch to be resigned to something as close as a win away that would enable us to move out of the 3, where the win is coming from I’m not sure. We are truly awful but thankfully a few other sides are just as competent as us not picking points up.

[bfcjg]

Teams with fighters stay up, where are ours ?

[KRBFC]

if you remember when Fulham signed Joachim Andersen he made loads of mistakes, it takes time. Long term we will be good, this season looks like it will be horrifically bad though. Be reet

Ye he’s a top defender him, excellent yesterday. I thought we were ok yesterday, a decent watch but it’s been a horrible watch this season ant it mate, hoping for a few big loans in January then maybe we put a run together

[KRBFC]

That point further exasperates mine.

VK just isn’t learning. Sitting in the ground yesterday everyone could see the issues apart from VK.

You keep saying this like Kompany has access to a magic wand, proper clueless. We were blunt as **** in attack, it’s not a problem you just solve

[KRBFC]

I think Newcastle is only slagging off Kompany because before a ball was kicked you raves about some of these players like Tresor so you’re blaming the manager for him being awful so far

[Newcastleclaret93]

You keep saying this like Kompany has access to a magic wand, proper clueless. We were blunt as **** in attack, it’s not a problem you just solve

Sorry but a decent manager keeps this squad up.

VK is not a good manager

[Jakubclaret]

Sorry but a decent manager keeps this squad up.

VK is not a good manager

VK is not a good manager at this level.

[KRBFC]

Sorry but a decent manager keeps this squad up.

VK is not a good manager

Vitinho Dara Al-Dakhil Taylor individually might be the worst back four in PL history, Jay Rodriguez upfront.

Based on that I’m not sure how you can be so confident in your BFC burn it to the ground campaign.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Vitinho Dara Al-Dakhil Taylor individually might be the worst back four in PL history, Jay Rodriguez upfront.

Based on that I’m not sure how you can be so confident in your BFC burn it to the ground campaign.

I’m just a realist KRBFC. You were very critical of Dyche as well, he never produced anything half as **** as this.

He’s signed these players and it’s his sword to fall on.

[Casper2]

Sorry but a decent manager keeps this squad up.

VK is not a good manager

Not a chance a decent manager keeps this squad up , we lack the physicality needed in the premier league, all you have to do is look when the teams line up , it’s men against boys.

[Hipper]

Even in a fairly bad champ season by our standards you're guaranteed like 10 or 15 wins at least. I'd take that right now. The way things are going this season I reckon I've got about a grand total of 3 more wins to celebrate and make my weekend a good one footy wise between now and next August. Fk that, I want to go back to the championship.

'....I reckon I've got about a grand total of 3 more wins to celebrate and make my weekend a good one...'

As many as three?

[KRBFC]

I’m just a realist KRBFC. You were very critical of Dyche as well, he never produced anything half as **** as this.

He’s signed these players and it’s his sword to fall on.

Realist lol you complain non stop, last season you whined about results and when you couldn’t whine about results anymore you chose to dig the players out. You whined non stop under Dyche too, what exactly do you want?

Dyche in his final season won 1 game in 6 months, we have already matched that.

He signed these players in the Championship, only one way to find out if they’re good enough to step up and that’s by stepping up. Also he didn’t sign Jay or Taylor, injuries to key players hasn’t helped at all.

[KRBFC]

As a BFC fan if You couldn’t even enjoy and be happy last season, you may as well go and find another team, one that you are satisfied with.

[daveisaclaret]

As a BFC fan if You couldn’t even enjoy and be happy last season, you may as well go and find another team, one that you are satisfied with.

It's very funny that you can't understand why this kind of statement looks moronic when it's posted by the guy who wouldn't stop moaning about our most successful manager for decades.

[KRBFC]

It's very funny that you can't understand why this kind of statement looks moronic when it's posted by the guy who wouldn't stop moaning about our most successful manager for decades.

Did I moan during promotion seasons when we were winning every week? The answer is no, That’s a new level of never happy.

[Jamesy]

A better manager keeps this team up no problem in my opinion.

There’s some real talent in the squad but VK just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.

I’m not sure a better manager would keep this team up? As for the assertion VK doesn’t know what he is doing, I would say it’s his stubbornness in sticking to his football philosophy which is going to lead to us being relegated. Additionally I think he is surrounded by “Yes” men who can see what most of us can see but don’t question or challenge him.
There are also a few questionable appointments in his coaching staff. One of those being his set piece coach. I sit five rows behind the dugout and yesterday I kept seeing this coach come out of the dug out when we had a corner or free kick muttering vague instructions to the corner/free kick takers.
We had numerous corners in the first half and a few free kicks and as usual nothing came of them. The best one was that indirect free kick ten yards into their half which after three touches went backwards to Trafford. When we get a corner or a free kick it is probably the best time to go for a leak as we know a goal isn’t coming. Well it might be, but not into our opponents net.
When you say there is real talent in the squad, I would broadly agree with you. However, Mr Pace and co need to shoulder some of the blame by naively trusting VK to procure this raw talent at a considerable outlay but overloading the squad with wide players and neglecting other areas where we are really weak. I am astonished that they also sanctioned the 18 million Euros payment for the ineffectual Mike Tresor. Yes we have certainly spunked a whole load of cash this season on the wrong sort of players.
It’s a bit like the Morecambe and Wise sketch where Eric said to Andre Previn “ I am playing all of the correct notes, but not necessarily in the right order”.
Sadly relegation does indeed beckon. Personally I like the Championship where there is non of the VAR nonsense. I just hope all of this reckless spending and poor recruitment doesn’t lead to a rapid downward spiral with our heavily mortgaged football club.

[bumba]

I just can't get over how utterly sh1t we are. it's bonkers.

No team that has come up with over 100 points has ever been relegated in the following season. Just truly mind boggling.

That's the main issue, this isn't last season's team and hasn't been all season, this is VKs biggest mistake and it's the one that'll cost us relegation.
He himself said in his documentary that it's takes X amount of meetings and X amount of training sessions to learn his system(b0ll0cks) so why didn't he stick with the players who knew the system and integrated new players slowly or just a couple at a time?
He went all in and it's ruined confidence, ruined team morale with players from last season, new players will be losing faith due to losing easily every week.
It just doesn't make any sense to have gone so bad from what we were and that all lies at VKs door

[bumba]

As a BFC fan if You couldn’t even enjoy and be happy last season, you may as well go and find another team, one that you are satisfied with.

VK obviously wasn't happy or satisfied with his team last season

[Spijed]

No team that has come up with over 100 points has ever been relegated in the following season. Just truly mind boggling.

The closest comparision to date is Norwich city who get promoted with 97 points (just four points less than us) in the 20/21 season.
They got relegated the following season finishing 20th with 22 points.

[Jakubclaret]

The closest comparision to date is Norwich city who get promoted with 97 points (just four points less than us) in the 20/21 season.
They got relegated the following season finishing 20th with 22 points.

Records are there to be broken as we witnessed yesterday. The convincing way we got promoted I think lured some people into a false sense of security & as a consequence some people thought this league would be some sort of a picnic, we had some of the nonsense again from some of same people about a top half finish before a ball had even been kicked.

[KRBFC]

VK obviously wasn't happy or satisfied with his team last season

Or didn’t see spending £65-80m on the four loans to essentially stand still as the smart thing to do….

Tella 25
THB 15
Beyer 10
Maatsen 25

Btw you have no idea if that was Kompanys decision or not, the board have to sanction the transfers and negotiate with the clubs.

[littlemissclaret]

Fixture list has done us. I've been saying since it was published, we'd be bottom at the international break in mid October and after that, what confidence would we have left.

[KRBFC]

Or didn’t see spending £65-80m on the four loans to essentially stand still as the smart thing to do….

Tella 25
THB 15
Beyer 10
Maatsen 25

Btw you have no idea if that was Kompanys decision or not, the board have to sanction the transfers and negotiate with the clubs.

Also we signed Beyer, we were in for Maatsen right up until the deadline and he didn’t want to come here, Paces daughter was posting free Tella stuff.

It’s fair to assume VK wanted 3/4 loans back, not sure about THB so not sure why people keep repeating this nonsense that VK didn’t want them.

Your gripe should be with the club for not signing them back, not Kompany.

[Dingo]

There’s loads to play for yet. Plenty of time to find some form. Yesterday was a good performance, it’s something to build on. And if the season ends with us being relegated. So what? We’ve done it lots before and life goes on.

[bumba]

Or didn’t see spending £65-80m on the four loans to essentially stand still as the smart thing to do….

Tella 25
THB 15
Beyer 10
Maatsen 25

Btw you have no idea if that was Kompanys decision or not, the board have to sanction the transfers and negotiate with the clubs.

We are using VKs scouting company to buy our players so I'm certain VK will have had the final say on all transfers. At some point he should have changed focus to different positions to balance the squad, it's totally unbalanced now with big money spent in areas it didn't need spending and no money spent in areas we are desperate.
I honestly think after last season and watching the documentary that it all went to AP and VKs head and this summer window was one of arrogance and them thinking VK could turn any youngster in to world beaters(100 million player quote remember) and we'd survive easily.
The fact it was quoted at 25-35 million we was offering for Maatsen is staggering we could of got much better for half the price

[Jakubclaret]

Also we signed Beyer, we were in for Maatsen right up until the deadline and he didn’t want to come here, Paces daughter was posting free Tella stuff.

It’s fair to assume VK wanted 3/4 loans back, not sure about THB so not sure why people keep repeating this nonsense that VK didn’t want them.

Your gripe should be with the club for not signing them back, not Kompany.

He could have identified & signed adequate replacements knowing that the 3 weren't coming back. It shouldn't have took until the last day of the window to realise it was impossible to bring the 3 back, you find out & quickly move onto something else.

[kentonclaret]

I just can't get over how utterly sh1t we are. it's bonkers.

No team that has come up with over 100 points has ever been relegated in the following season. Just truly mind boggling.

Not really. The Championship is a very weak Division with no real depth to it. Looking at the current table the 3 relegated clubs occupy 3 of the top 4 positions and the club lying in 2nd place were the runners up last season in Division One. Perhaps VK thought that employing similar tactics and formations that bought success last season in the Championship would work in the PL.

[taio]

It's not looking good but already concluding that we'll definitely be relegated after just 11 games, when there's a chance Sheff Utd, Luton and Bournemouth will finish below us seems weak and defeatist to me. We also have key players returning. However, the upside is that those who believe now we are a certainty for relegation should have less to say if they have already accepted our fate. If we do go down I'm reasonably confident Kompany will take us back up with a squad that has developed

[spt_claret]

Or didn’t see spending £65-80m on the four loans to essentially stand still as the smart thing to do….

Tella 25
THB 15
Beyer 10
Maatsen 25

Btw you have no idea if that was Kompanys decision or not, the board have to sanction the transfers and negotiate with the clubs.

Tella would have come for 18m not 25.
Bellis, I happen to agree wasn't worth that money but we paid half that for O'Shea who looks like an inferior Bellis.
Beyer we have no clue what was paid reports range from £3m plus bonus clauses to £13m.
Maatsen we tried to sign and he wouldn't come, had we tried sooner might have got him, but I was hesitant about him as a defender at this level.

Meanwhile we DID spend:
18m on Tresor, which just looks like 18m that should have gone on Tella currently.
15m plus 4m add-ons for Trafford, a position that most people felt was low priority after Muric's improvement last year and only needed a backup keeper.
14m for Ramsey, who hasn't played much yet, seemingly due to injury.
16m for Amdouni, who I'm confident will improve us.
12m for Berge, who has improved us.

it's a fair point to argue that spending however much on the 4 loanees would have been to stand still but we spent the Tella fee on a guy who's offered less than nothing so far, the Bellis fee on a position that was low priority, and half the Maatsen fee on another attacking player who's barely played through no fault of his own.
Meanwhile in not signing them we've left an absence in the goalscoring department which was already compounded by losing Barnes, and left an absence in the leftback department. I'm not for a second suggesting we ought to have broke the bank to sign all 4, but it's maddening to me that we let our top scorer go and didn't recruit a new striker if only as cover for Foster, didn't recruit a new left back, but poured the same amount of money into a slug of players all competing for the same positions. It doesn't even make sense from the develop and sell perspective- Zaroury's value increased last year and is now declining while he sits on the bench, we have so many players competing for the same position that it's going to be tough for any of them to even get the sufficient matchtime to appreciate in value.

As for the last point- I do agree, BUT it's been widely reported that Kompany has total say on transfers now so he has to shoulder some responsibility. If that isn't true, then yes- the board ought to be pillioried for ripping up Kompany's team and taking his authority away after last year.

That point further exasperates mine.

VK just isn’t learning. Sitting in the ground yesterday everyone could see the issues apart from VK.

Don't agree with the wider extent of your criticism but fully agree on the latter 2 points.
We were at our best yesterday playing with urgency and being willing to attack and risk losing the ball in order to get crosses or shots away. First 10 minutes, and last 10-15 of the first half.
Kompany's halftime team talk did what it's done a worrying amount of times this season- dropped our performance. We retreated into our shells and began to play slow, cautious, "bump up the pass %" style short range tapping around our own half between the centrebacks who only occasionally were bold enough to use their fullbacks or midfield. We were 1-0 down yet playing like we wanted to run down the clock.
Gudmundsson had been effective in the first half with his technique vision and movement, but in the second half he was struggling to do much- the only impact we were having on the right was when Vitinho made a few bomber runs which didn't tend to amount to anything.
Jay had held up play okay and moved okay in the first half but was functionally absent in the second half.
Both looked if not tiring, then neutralised by Palace's willingness to sit back and defend- they might be clever players but Palace froze them out of the game.
Meanwhile, Amdouni and Koleosho were scaring them with their directness, pace, and close dribbling. You can point to end product- but Jay & JBG lacked it too, Jay's looping header didn't do the job, he was miles offside for his 'goal', and JBG missed the best chance of the game.
We were CRYING OUT for some pace on the right hand side to match Koleosho on the left, someone quick and direct who could scare their defenders, threaten to get in behind, and give Vitinho a more dynamic outlet/partner ahead of him. We were crying out for a forward who could hold the play up but move quick enough to pull their defence out of position for Amdouni's runs to be more effective.
Instead he takes the two best performers off in a like for like swap, we don't go up a gear at all and nothing improves.
I can fully understand the concerns of over-coaching and being wedded to the philosophy, because we haven't yet shown the willingness or ability we showed last year to go more direct, pragmatic, or risk-taking in our play when we're not breaking teams down. Last year teams that sat in frustrated us unless Benson produced magic, or we mixed it up and went more direct in behind with Muric & Ekdal feeding Tella. For various reasons none of these are playing currently but the frustration is we don't even try to replicate that approach when Plan A doesn't work.
I'm not calling for Kompany's head but he needs to be willing to adapt his approach to a game- he might change players, change formations, but we have this habit of reverting to an overly patient, probing buildup even when it's not working and playing with urgency is.

[KRBFC]

We are using VKs scouting company to buy our players so I'm certain VK will have had the final say on all transfers. At some point he should have changed focus to different positions to balance the squad, it's totally unbalanced now with big money spent in areas it didn't need spending and no money spent in areas we are desperate.
I honestly think after last season and watching the documentary that it all went to AP and VKs head and this summer window was one of arrogance and them thinking VK could turn any youngster in to world beaters(100 million player quote remember) and we'd survive easily.
The fact it was quoted at 25-35 million we was offering for Maatsen is staggering we could of got much better for half the price

I don’t disagree with you about the imbalance, not sure why we signed so many wingers and no out and out striker, a cdm and left back. I assume we thought Cullen would cut it.

[bumba]

I don’t disagree with you about the imbalance, not sure why we signed so many wingers and no out and out striker, a cdm and left back. I assume we thought Cullen would cut it.

I think we all did to be honest, I even thought it'd suit his style even more but I think yesterday's partnership of Berge and Brownhill worked better than any has so far this season. I'd really like to see Massengo can do.
CB, striker and full backs are the confusing ones for me when you look at the money spent in areas we didn't need too

[KRBFC]

I think we all did to be honest, I even thought it'd suit his style even more but I think yesterday's partnership of Berge and Brownhill worked better than any has so far this season. I'd really like to see Massengo can do.
CB, striker and full backs are the confusing ones for me when you look at the money spent in areas we didn't need too

I think we also thought Ekdal Beyer AAD Dara Taylor Delcroix was good enough for CB, didn’t account for them all struggling for form/fitness.

[spt_claret]

I think we also thought Ekdal Beyer AAD Dara Taylor Delcroix was good enough for CB, didn’t account for them all struggling for form/fitness.

I didn't think Taylor was a CB and not convinced by Delcroix at all.
Ekdal/Beyer agree. AAD, I think he'll still come good, of all of them he's the youngest and the most clear example of needing time and a relief from pressure. Reminiscent of Keane when we first signed him or to an extent Mee- not good enough yet but looks like he will be comfortably, eventually.
But we need now, not eventually, at least in 1 of the 2 CBs.

[Big Vinny K]

One thing I don’t understand is why the substitutes are left to warm up at half time.
We know from previous games that there is a very good chance that 5 of them are coming on.
I’m not sure why they are not part of the discussions about what we are doing well, what we are doing poorly, the weaknesses and strengths of the opposition etc.
I know they can be given instructions on the bench but would think they would benefit more from being part of the team at half time as clearly the warming up bit can be done before the game and during it

[bumba]

I think we also thought Ekdal Beyer AAD Dara Taylor Delcroix was good enough for CB, didn’t account for them all struggling for form/fitness.

Worryingly O'Shea was toured by VK as capable of playing for the top 6, he'll never reach that potential he never even stood out in the championship. Ekdal and Beyer could still form a good partnership which could give AAD time to get used to the league but for the money we've splashed elsewhere it's strange how this positions as overlooked or at least if we signed two quality full backs things may of been different

[KRBFC]

I didn't think Taylor was a CB and not convinced by Delcroix at all.
Ekdal/Beyer agree. AAD, I think he'll still come good, of all of them he's the youngest and the most clear example of needing time and a relief from pressure. Reminiscent of Keane when we first signed him or to an extent Mee- not good enough yet but looks like he will be comfortably, eventually.
But we need now, not eventually, at least in 1 of the 2 CBs.

Agree with you but that’s with hindsight, I’m on about preseason and why we didn’t strengthen at centre half. I think VK thought Dakhil Dara Beyer Ekdal were a strong enough 4 to find a pairing with Delcroix and Taylor as cover. The problem is Ekdal and Beyer can’t stay fit and AAD and Dara have struggled.

[KRBFC]

Worryingly O'Shea was toured by VK as capable of playing for the top 6, he'll never reach that potential he never even stood out in the championship. Ekdal and Beyer could still form a good partnership which could give AAD time to get used to the league but for the money we've splashed elsewhere it's strange how this positions as overlooked or at least if we signed two quality full backs things may of been different

Eric Dier and Kalvin Phillips on loan in January and we stay up painful ride until then however

[FCBurnley]

Just watching what is happening to Norwich. Big lessons to be learned for us

[Tufty]

We got relegated along with Norwich and Watford. I personally think we're in a miles better position than either of those clubs, financially and wrt squad quality.

Watched the highlights yesterday and was quite impressed with the football we played and the chances created.

Based on what I saw I don't think the level of negativity shown in comments is warranted. If 4 of those near misses had gone in everyone would be raving about what an excellent performance it was....even if the rest was played out exactly as it was.

Basically what I'm saying is that people's summaries are purely based on goals and results and not on performances. Sounds nonsensical but it really isn't.

[bumba]

Eric Dier and Kalvin Phillips on loan in January and we stay up painful ride until then however

As much as I'd like those deals I can't see it because AP and VKs vision will be to play the players who can bring a profit in next summer if we go down

[jedi_master]

Before this season started, if we’d asked ourselves “Would we back Vinny if we get relegated to bring us back?”, we’d all have said yes wouldnt we?

Nobody is going to be happy with how we’re playing and no doubt Vinny has made monumental errors in the summer window but let’s just try to remember that question above and how we’d have answered it back in July. If the answer was yes then, it should be yes till the very end of this season.