January transfer window rumours.

[CoolClaret]

Oof wouldn't go that far. I just think that while he does have a mistake in him and can get dispossessed, it's not as drastic as people make out and for his age he's still got time to develop, plus just has that hard to quantify look of a player who's maybe not good enough now but not far off abruptly turning the corner to become very very good. Call it gut feeling or just being taken in by his stepovers but while he'd be my 2nd choice I think he still has a lot of upwards potential.

Fair enough - certainly not in the Championship like, Roberts was brilliant for most of last season. Just think Vitinho has a bit that is under appreciated and was offering something down that right flank vs Bournemouth and Palace (mistake aside)

[NewClaret]

Unless we pick up some points over the next few weeks I think it will be difficult to attract any top targets..

Preferred targets, yes. Targets, no.

If we’re down and out, then I’d just say we double down on our youth policy and give a few lads we think have potential to have a shot at the Prem & potentially make a name for themselves as Koleosho has done in 11 matches.

If we’re close, look at loans. There’s plenty of players not playing at other clubs who want to put themselves in the shop window.

[Clive 1960]

Most of us thought Tresor would be a great signing but the lad as struggled so far maybe because of the Premier league only time will tell.

[gandhisflipflop]

The lad has been here 2 bloody months

[Clive 1960]

The lad has been here 2 bloody months

not saying he's a bad player just finding it difficult , maybe settling in to new area, what i have seen on clips in Belgium he can play but it's a different league to the one we are in and that goes for a few players.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Regardless of form upturn January should be about using one or two loans to stiffen the spine. Eric Dier is an example. Could help in 2 positions. Can even move positions during the game. A new overseas signing would take too long to bed in.

Up front or full back would then be the next priorities.

I don’t feel we are far away.

[FeedTheArf]

Most of us thought Tresor would be a great signing but the lad as struggled so far maybe because of the Premier league only time will tell.

I'm taking the same mindset as Foster with Tresor. I didn't think Foster would work out at all based on last seasons showing (albeit there was no lack of effort) and he seems to have turned a corner.

Whether we can afford to carry someone this season who might take 6 months to get up to speed is another question entirely.

[NewClaret]

I'm taking the same mindset as Foster with Tresor. I didn't think Foster would work out at all based on last seasons showing (albeit there was no lack of effort) and he seems to have turned a corner.

Whether we can afford to carry someone this season who might take 6 months to get up to speed is another question entirely.

For me Tresor now has to be an Easter egg to unwrap (or whatever VK called them) next season. One to work with on the training ground and blood in as we did with foster.

[NewClaret]

Regardless of form upturn January should be about using one or two loans to stiffen the spine. Eric Dier is an example. Could help in 2 positions. Can even move positions during the game. A new overseas signing would take too long to bed in.

Up front or full back would then be the next priorities.

I don’t feel we are far away.

Dier would’ve been immense in the holding midfield role. The type of leader we need.

Agree we’re not too far away. One or two additions to this team would make a massive difference. Not sure if it’ll come too late though.

[Jakubs Tash]

Oof wouldn't go that far. I just think that while he does have a mistake in him and can get dispossessed, it's not as drastic as people make out and for his age he's still got time to develop, plus just has that hard to quantify look of a player who's maybe not good enough now but not far off abruptly turning the corner to become very very good. Call it gut feeling or just being taken in by his stepovers but while he'd be my 2nd choice I think he still has a lot of upwards potential.

I’ve heard/read quite a few say Vitinho has done well the last couple of games. It would be nice if they could explain what he has actually done well….

He’s found himself in loads of space but completely lacks any idea of what to do with the ball when he gets it. He can’t beat a man, never really gets a decent cross in and his passing is dreadful at times. I think many are taken in by his ‘busy’ demeanour. He’s the very definition of lacking end product and yet frustratingly he’s the one who probably sees the most of the ball in space.

I agree Roberts has been poor and I’m not sure he’s up to this level either - we need an upgrade on both sides at full back. But Vitinho is certainly not the answer. Might as well play a winger there with how high up he gets and how effective he is defensively.

[Westleigh]

He seems to be at his best when he cuts in on the halfway line ,beats 2 or 3 players then buggers it up.

[KRBFC]

Vitinho has made crucial mistakes at crucial moments and they’ve been punished.

Chelsea at home, the penalty he gave away basically threw the game away. Sterling is going nowhere too, brain dead to give him a penalty.

Everton in the cup as poor as we were a sides always in the game at 1-0, Vitinho loses the ball high stupidly they counter and score from the corner.

Bournemouth away 1-1, we aren’t playing well but hanging in there for a vital must not lose, inexplicably loses the ball on the halfway line and they score, unacceptable such awful play.

That’s just 3 off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s more and he hasn’t started that many games.

[NewClaret]

Have to agree about Vitinho. Far too wasteful with the ball.

Will commend one thing though… often vs Palace he drove at them with pace. It did t come too much but moved us up the pitch. There were safer options on each occasion & I remember thinking that Roberts would’ve checked back and played a backwards ball on all occasions.

Maybe explains why he doesn’t lose the ball so much and Vitinho does though.

[CoolClaret]

I’ve heard/read quite a few say Vitinho has done well the last couple of games. It would be nice if they could explain what he has actually done well….

He’s found himself in loads of space but completely lacks any idea of what to do with the ball when he gets it. He can’t beat a man, never really gets a decent cross in and his passing is dreadful at times. I think many are taken in by his ‘busy’ demeanour. He’s the very definition of lacking end product and yet frustratingly he’s the one who probably sees the most of the ball in space.

I agree Roberts has been poor and I’m not sure he’s up to this level either - we need an upgrade on both sides at full back. But Vitinho is certainly not the answer. Might as well play a winger there with how high up he gets and how effective he is defensively.

1) Few marauding runs has set up a few of our chances
2) Getting the ball in space is usually the sign of a decent player that can read a game
3) That's what he's been instructed to do

Yep he's made mistakes, not saying he's a world beater. No more mistakes than Roberts who loves passing to the opposition or Al Dakhil. Remember like SPT said he's still young, made 5 apps in the PL and has never had an extended run in the side in has natural position.

[wilks_bfc]

4e981280-161f-4879-8eda-dd973b2ea483.jpeg (201.68 KiB) Viewed 8970 times

[Pickles]

Maybe we all watch football more differently to each other than I thought. Because, in my opinion of course, Vitinho should be nowhere near a Premier League side. Not much going forward and less at the back.

I suspect he sometimes finds himself in space at right back because the opposition know he's harmless and they're putting much of their focus into exploiting Taylor on the other side.

Full back is one of our many weak areas.

[CoolClaret]

Maybe we all watch football more differently to each other than I thought. Because, in my opinion of course, Vitinho should be nowhere near a Premier League side. Not much going forward and less at the back.

I suspect he sometimes finds himself in space at right back because the opposition know he's harmless and they're putting much of their focus into exploiting Taylor on the other side.

Full back is one of our many weak areas.

Full back is a hard position to play in our current system yeah.

No one is saying he's a world beater but that there's something to work with.

[Big Vinny K]

Maybe we all watch football more differently to each other than I thought. Because, in my opinion of course, Vitinho should be nowhere near a Premier League side. Not much going forward and less at the back.

I suspect he sometimes finds himself in space at right back because the opposition know he's harmless and they're putting much of their focus into exploiting Taylor on the other side.

Full back is one of our many weak areas.

Agree with this.
For around half a million I think he was a good buy last season and his versatility ended up being pretty important to us. But I honestly thought after spending what we did I’d see him nowhere near even the bench this season let alone playing for us like he has.
The problem has been is that Roberts was sent off and he also had 3 or 4 awful games in a row. We’ve tried Al D in that position and his distribution is just not good enough in the system we play.

Vitinho against Everton in the first half especially had so much of the ball and he was so frustrating. He had the ball in a good position many times but most of the time when he was receiving the ball his body shape was already set up to take the easy option and pass it backwards when it was crying out with space in front of him to drive forward.

Our full backs playing well is key in the system we play. I think Charlie Taylor played really well against Palace - and I include his forward play in this. He made 2 of our biggest chances - the cross for the header that was inches wide and also the through ball for Koleosho when the defender put in a great last ditch tackle. If Charlie can carry on playing like he did on Saturday that would help the team.

Unfortunately our problems continue down the right side unless Roberts can find the form from last season which seems unlikely as he now seems to be back playing like he was under Dyche in the EPL and it may be that the level is just a step too far for him (not a massive surprise for someone who cost us a couple of million). That said I was not calling for us to replace Roberts this season and I don’t think many other Burnley fans were either.

[Quickenthetempo]

Vitinho has made crucial mistakes at crucial moments and they’ve been punished.

Chelsea at home, the penalty he gave away basically threw the game away. Sterling is going nowhere too, brain dead to give him a penalty.

Everton in the cup as poor as we were a sides always in the game at 1-0, Vitinho loses the ball high stupidly they counter and score from the corner.

Bournemouth away 1-1, we aren’t playing well but hanging in there for a vital must not lose, inexplicably loses the ball on the halfway line and they score, unacceptable such awful play.

That’s just 3 off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s more and he hasn’t started that many games.

I would hate to play for you as manager. Players losing the ball at the halfway line is not the main fault in conceding goals. Players do it all the time. You would have them scared to do anything.

If we had Tarky and Mee at the back, you wouldn't bat an eyelid, as they would clear it.

[Pickles]

But I honestly thought after spending what we did I’d see him nowhere near even the bench this season let alone playing for us like he has.

Agree with all your post. And on this - similar situation with Rodriguez, Gudmundsson, Taylor (although you're right, he improves us currently) and maybe Brownhill.

[Stalbansclaret]

I would hate to play for you as manager. Players losing the ball at the halfway line is not the main fault in conceding goals. Players do it all the time. You would have them scared to do anything.

If we had Tarky and Mee at the back, you wouldn't bat an eyelid, as they would clear it.

Not sure you are right with this. In the Premier League giving the ball away halfway up the pitch invariably leads to it being quickly transferred to an opposition player running forwards in the gap between the centre backs and our midfield and once that happens a goal often seems to result.

[Quickenthetempo]

Not sure you are right with this. In the Premier League giving the ball away halfway up the pitch invariably leads to it being quickly transferred to an opposition player running forwards in the gap between the centre backs and our midfield and once that happens a goal often seems to result.

With us maybe, because we can't defend and have a below average keeper.
Most teams defend it properly or there would hundreds more goals.

No wonder Conner Roberts just plays backwards if you get lambasted for losing the ball in safe areas.

[Big Vinny K]

With us maybe, because we can't defend and have a below average keeper.
Most teams defend it properly or there would hundreds more goals.

No wonder Conner Roberts just plays backwards if you get lambasted for losing the ball in safe areas.

It’s more about who loses the ball and where on the pitch.
Lose it in key areas and with players out of position and you will get punished in this league - we’ve seen this god knows how many times this season already.
That does not mean that Roberts or anyone else playing full back has to play it backwards all the time. It’s about picking the right times and other players making the right runs too.
Teams like Everton and Villa decided to not press our back 4 and wait for us to make a mistake - which we duly obliged. We have struggled to adapt to other teams tactics in some games and eventually one of our players just end up making a poor decision.

[CryerBFC]

Losing the ball on half way is safe, if you have the players to win it back. But when we have over half the squad sauntering around in the attacking third, not tracking back and if they did, wouldn’t do much anyway, then it’s suicidal.

Added to the frail back line and a keeper whose confidence must be rock bottom.

Annoyingly, I think Roberts has it in his locker to play that down the line/round the corner ball, that at Everton, Tresor was desperate for and Vitinho couldn’t do it/didn’t bother even attempting it.

Losing the ball all over the pitch seems to hurt us nowadays and I don’t see it getting better until VK can strengthen in January. How many times have we read on here that a corner for us seems to be an opportunity for the opposing team. We’re useless with set plays, get dominated on the counter and I could count on 1 hand the players in the whole squad with the determination to get back and make a challenge.

[spt_claret]

I’ve heard/read quite a few say Vitinho has done well the last couple of games. It would be nice if they could explain what he has actually done well….

He’s found himself in loads of space but completely lacks any idea of what to do with the ball when he gets it. He can’t beat a man, never really gets a decent cross in and his passing is dreadful at times. I think many are taken in by his ‘busy’ demeanour. He’s the very definition of lacking end product and yet frustratingly he’s the one who probably sees the most of the ball in space.

I agree Roberts has been poor and I’m not sure he’s up to this level either - we need an upgrade on both sides at full back. But Vitinho is certainly not the answer. Might as well play a winger there with how high up he gets and how effective he is defensively.

He put in a couple of decent crosses very early early on against Palace, he has beaten a man a few times and won a couple corners against Palace. His movement and ability to find space is a very useful attribute especially at PL level- it's how he got his headed goals last year despite being small. I agree that his actual product has lacked this season (Although I thought last season he created a few good opportunities that didn't get capitalised on, and up until about February or so he had the better stats than Roberts in terms of xA). His energy, positivity and willingness to try attack are things I think fans latch onto but I do agree that his end product wasn't massive in either game- problem is neither was anyone else's. Part of the problem is, much as I rate JBG massively I don't think hes best as a winger anymore- CM or central attacking midfield for me he's not dynamic or fast enough to play wide in this system. Which meant that Vitinho might be in space but hadn't got a winger there to support him (although it's also possible that that's because JBG's drifting & dropping pulls players away from Vitinho).

I'd like to see him behind Odobert or Koleosho, or, like last season, Benson.
I think Roberts overall is the better player, offers more defensively and is steady in possession, Vitinho's weaker defensively and while comfortable on the ball can be dispossessed but that's because he plays a riskier more aggressive style. Which is something I think we need to do as a whole more often, pick up the tempo/directness and attack fast through the thirds. Roberts could possibly do it but stylistically I think Vitinho fits better even if he's not as good a player (yet, he's 24 which while not a youth player is still pretty young for a defender, got another 2 years development I'd guess, Tarks and Mee started peaking around 26-27, Trippier arguably around 28-29)

[KRBFC]

I would hate to play for you as manager. Players losing the ball at the halfway line is not the main fault in conceding goals. Players do it all the time. You would have them scared to do anything.

If we had Tarky and Mee at the back, you wouldn't bat an eyelid, as they would clear it.

It was a complete suicide attempt of a pass at Bournemouth to nobody, the entire team going forward because nobody expects him to lose it there, 2 touches later it’s in the back of our net. I don’t care who you have in the centre of defence, your full back constantly giving the ball away leaving your team disjointed out numbered and susceptible to counter attacks is a huge problem.

[KRBFC]

Like I’m sorry but that is awful, this is not a safe area to lose the ball in your own half and leave your defence out numbered 3v4

https://youtu.be/rKVNd1ozs1c?si=zWJ92RekE_GZ18qP

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Like I’m sorry but that is awful, this is not a safe area to lose the ball in your own half and leave your defence out numbered 3v4

https://youtu.be/rKVNd1ozs1c?si=zWJ92RekE_GZ18qP

The more you watch it the worse it gets, everything that is wrong about us at the moment in a nutshell.

[Carlos the Great]

We can’t just keep buying players ,, there will be no room in the car park soon for all the Ferraris

[Quickenthetempo]

Like I’m sorry but that is awful, this is not a safe area to lose the ball in your own half and leave your defence out numbered 3v4

https://youtu.be/rKVNd1ozs1c?si=zWJ92RekE_GZ18qP

Yes, U11s are taught not to pass sideways because of this situation.
Shocking flap by Trafford though.

Every other team in the prem doesn't concede that.

It doesn't quite show any options he had to pass though.

[Jakubs Tash]

1) Few marauding runs has set up a few of our chances
2) Getting the ball in space is usually the sign of a decent player that can read a game
3) That's what he's been instructed to do

Yep he's made mistakes, not saying he's a world beater. No more mistakes than Roberts who loves passing to the opposition or Al Dakhil. Remember like SPT said he's still young, made 5 apps in the PL and has never had an extended run in the side in has natural position.

I'm not going to labour the point any more so this will be my last response on it. But....

1) Did he?? Which chances in particular are you referring to?
2) Hmmm.... I think it was more that the system we played allowed him that freedom. He was our out ball/overload. The opposition didn't seem overly-concerned by the space they afforded him.
3) He's being instructed to play high up, yes. I don't really understand this point - my issue isn't with the shape of the team or the instructions the manager gives players. VK hasn't instructed him not to beat a man, or not put any decent crosses over etc etc

He played enough games in his preferred position last season at a lower level and didn't look great. He's a bang average Championship level player in every position he plays. The PL is a step too far for him. I'm just calling it as I see it and playing in this team under the style VK wants to play he will create more problems than have a positive impact imo.

[KRBFC]

Yes, U11s are taught not to pass sideways because of this situation.
Shocking flap by Trafford though.

Every other team in the prem doesn't concede that.

It doesn't quite show any options he had to pass though.

Well that’s because he ran down a blind alley then panicked, a better player doesn’t run down that blind alley or kicks it down the line/wins a throw in or free kick. The last thing you do in that position is cough the ball up quickly and leave your defence 3v4. Shield the ball and dive on the floor, anything to buy time for your team to reset.

He’s coughing the ball up too easily when he’s out of position high up the pitch.

[Quicknick]

Regardless of form upturn January should be about using one or two loans to stiffen the spine. Eric Dier is an example. Could help in 2 positions. Can even move positions during the game. A new overseas signing would take too long to bed in.

Up front or full back would then be the next priorities.

I don’t feel we are far away.

Agreed. Dier would be a great loan signing.

[Woodleyclaret]

Two that stood out so far in Championship imo
Joe Rankin -Costelloe and Sam Szmodics both good ball winners and good distribution skills
Szmodics has a decent shot and an eye for goal

[beddie]

Agreed. Dier would be a great loan signing.

Let’s be honest signing Dier would be an amazing signing, can’t see it happening unfortunately.I said a few months back when he was available that Johnny Evans would have the experience we were looking for. I agree though any signings really need to have or had a good amount of PL experience. No more of this young foreign (inexperienced) talent for me.

[NewClaret]

Let’s be honest signing Dier would be an amazing signing, can’t see it happening unfortunately.I said a few months back when he was available that Johnny Evans would have the experience we were looking for. I agree though any signings really need to have or had a good amount of PL experience. No more of this young foreign (inexperienced) talent for me.

I think it depends where we’re at come January.

If we’re cut adrift I don’t see much point blowing more money on big wages/loan fees of experienced players. It’s not going to change the outcome and I’d rather save our cash to avoid the need to sell as many in summer and give our players more experience.

Or if we have more cash than we realise, use it to invest in young talent and giving them the pl experience.

[claptrappers_union]

Can we put the first mention of potential targets in bold?

[jojomk1]

I think it depends where we’re at come January.

If we’re cut adrift I don’t see much point blowing more money on big wages/loan fees of experienced players. It’s not going to change the outcome and I’d rather save our cash to avoid the need to sell as many in summer and give our players more experience.

Or if we have more cash than we realise, use it to invest in young talent and giving them the pl experience.

Bring in more young wingers for me

Muric in goal and 10 wingers could be the answer

[NewClaret]

Bring in more young wingers for me

Muric in goal and 10 wingers could be the answer

5 either side. Muric on the half way line spreading worldwide passes to them

[OssyClaret]

Not a striker in your list of requirements!?

Maybe now with the Foster news. Rodriguez has gone.

They are just hard to come by and I think we have a very good first choice one (when back healthy). With Obafemi now in reserve, it wasn’t top of my priorities. Many of the top sides play without one if they have threats from elsewhere, which I think we would have if we could provide a solid consistent base with full back threats to supplement.

[CoolClaret]

Expect a few apologies after Vitinho pocketed Martinelli

More to come from him…. Crazy what an extended run in the side can do for someone

[Westleigh]

Maybe now with the Foster news. Rodriguez has gone.

They are just hard to come by and I think we have a very good first choice one (when back healthy). With Obafemi now in reserve, it wasn’t top of my priorities. Many of the top sides play without one if they have threats from elsewhere, which I think we would have if we could provide a solid consistent base with full back threats to supplement.

I don’t think we played much with an out and out striker last year as Barnes and J Rod tended to drop deeper.

[houseboy]

I would imagine plenty of work is going on behind the scenes to fill the gaps...

A striker needed for when Foster is 'ill'.
A DM.
Full Backs x2.

Why the inverted commas around ill? Looks like you don’t believe mental illness qualifies as such. Would you be telling him to pull himself together?

[It Is What It Is]

Nobody will come to us in January....why would they?considering it's a relegation scrap for the rest of the season....no joy or progression in that.

[warksclaret]

Agreed. Dier would be a great loan signing.

Unfortunately Spurs have a number of injuries and Dier likey to start in the coming months. Unless he plays badly he is not likely to be let out on loan in Jan

[Westleigh]

Dier would’ve been immense in the holding midfield role. The type of leader we need.

Agree we’re not too far away. One or two additions to this team would make a massive difference. Not sure if it’ll come too late though.

I don’t think there’s a cat in hells chance with Dier because he’s very much part of Tottenham’s squad.

[DCWat]

I don’t think there’s a cat in hells chance with Dier because he’s very much part of Tottenham’s squad.

Not offered a new deal, I don’t think. The only minutes he’s had this season have been in the last two games and because of injuries / suspensions.

He will be off in the summer, on a freebie to whoever pays big wages.

[Jakubs Tash]

Expect a few apologies after Vitinho pocketed Martinelli

More to come from him…. Crazy what an extended run in the side can do for someone

Apologies??? Haha, yeah, alright……

He put in an ‘ok’ performance in a team playing a low block that still got beat.

Here’s another way of looking at it; all three goals came down his side and he barely crossed the half way line in fear of getting caught.

Vitinho did ok on Saturday - but that was it. There’s a cigarette paper between Vitinho and Roberts for who should wear the shirt currently - neither are really up to it at this level. I’m hoping we bring at least 2 if not 3 defenders in come January and both full backs are replaced as a minimum.

[Belgianclaret]

I see that Shelvey is playing in Turkey now. 31 years old, could still do a job in central midfield.

[FeedTheArf]

Linked to Man City youngster Jadel Katongo, currently on loan at Peterborough.

Interestingly, originally a CB but has been played as DM whilst on loan and impressing. Obviously would be a big step up.

https://www.manchestercity.news/report- ... -sign-him/