What striker is a feasible buy in January?

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
It Is What It Is
Posts: 1082
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:21 pm
Been Liked: 254 times
Has Liked: 472 times

What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by It Is What It Is » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:24 pm

Although Lyle Foster ( bless him), is in a lot better frame of mind and recovering well, he is still going to be someway off match ready and brave Jay despite his age, cannot be as effective as he used to be.
So, what's the answer? We should have got another striker last summer but ended up with a shed load of wingers.
I'm at a loss as to suggest anyone in our budget really, either UK or abroad but attracting anyone into a relegation battle in East Lancashire is a bloody big ask.
Any solid probable ideas anyone?

Paul Waine
Posts: 10237
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2419 times
Has Liked: 3339 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:29 pm

It Is What It Is wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:24 pm
Although Lyle Foster ( bless him), is in a lot better frame of mind and recovering well, he is still going to be someway off match ready and brave Jay despite his age, cannot be as effective as he used to be.
So, what's the answer? We should have got another striker last summer but ended up with a shed load of wingers.
I'm at a loss as to suggest anyone in our budget really, either UK or abroad but attracting anyone into a relegation battle in East Lancashire is a bloody big ask.
Any solid probable ideas anyone?
Are we able to recall Wout Weghorst? OK, similar scenario to 2 seasons ago, except this time international tournament is summer 2024, rather than half way through the following season. Wout Weghorst will have played "top division" football all of the 2023/24 season.

UTC

IanMcL
Posts: 34805
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6949 times
Has Liked: 10368 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:48 pm

Andy Payton?
These 2 users liked this post: alwaysaclaret k90bfc

warksclaret
Posts: 8765
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 2330 times
Has Liked: 1293 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by warksclaret » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:50 pm

It may have to be a loan , as any good PL quality striker may not relish the thought of the Championship if they were to be an outright purchase. The top 6 or 7 PL clubs may well have a striker that needs game time. THe prospect of an overseas striker does not feel as safe, with most wanting a month or more to settle in

Goliath
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:08 pm
Been Liked: 783 times
Has Liked: 291 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Goliath » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:55 pm

There probably isnt one in the UK. But it skunds like Foster will be back after Xmas so it probabky wont be a priority.
I think a right back has to be the main priority, the 2 weve got are nowhere near Prem level.
After that a backup left back which would mean we need to let some players go, probably Churlinov and another

spt_claret
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
Been Liked: 815 times
Has Liked: 484 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by spt_claret » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:56 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:29 pm
Are we able to recall Wout Weghorst? OK, similar scenario to 2 seasons ago, except this time international tournament is summer 2024, rather than half way through the following season. Wout Weghorst will have played "top division" football all of the 2023/24 season.

UTC
I'd have never let him go unless he/his teammates were refusing to co-operate. The fans booing him need to get a sense of perspective, at least he was up front & honest and he put in a shift every time he did play for us, they wouldn't boo Cornet who stopped even attending training while his agent forced a move away. He'd have been a good option to have, even moreso now.
These 2 users liked this post: Quicknick Paul Waine

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 13297
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1990 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:15 pm

Pochetino has made it quite clear he wants to prioritise a striker in the next few windows.

Chelsea have a raft of strikers that I think arnt at there level but would be great for us. If we could get either Broja or Jackson on loan that would be fantastic

clive40golf
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:51 am
Been Liked: 183 times
Has Liked: 196 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by clive40golf » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:17 pm

spt_claret wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:56 pm
they wouldn't boo Cornet who stopped even attending training while his agent forced a move away.

Genuine question, is that true? I’d read somewhere that he’d acted impeccably, still interacting with the fans right upto the day he left.

Boss Hogg
Posts: 3946
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:34 am
Been Liked: 1016 times
Has Liked: 1205 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Boss Hogg » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:22 pm

Probably need to be a loan. We do need one. If we are cut adrift it will be difficult to attract anyone decent or proven.

boatshed bill
Posts: 17375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3565 times
Has Liked: 7837 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:24 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:15 pm
Pochetino has made it quite clear he wants to prioritise a striker in the next few windows.

Chelsea have a raft of strikers that I think arnt at there level but would be great for us. If we could get either Broja or Jackson on loan that would be fantastic
Jackson is apparently atrocious.... I was listening to a bit of H&J on Talk Crap today, one of those two is a Chelsea fan who rated him 3rd tier at best.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 13297
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1990 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:28 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:24 pm
Jackson is apparently atrocious.... I was listening to a bit of H&J on Talk Crap today, one of those two is a Chelsea fan who rated him 3rd tier at best.
He’s not Chelsea level but he’s really not that bad. He would be great for us. Quick, tall, powerful. Needs to improve his finishing but he got 16 goal contributions (12 goals, 4 assists) in 26 games last year in La liga

boatshed bill
Posts: 17375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3565 times
Has Liked: 7837 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:32 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:28 pm
He’s not Chelsea level but he’s really not that bad. He would be great for us. Quick, tall, powerful. Needs to improve his finishing but he got 16 goal contributions (12 goals, 4 assists) in 26 games last year in La liga
Fair enough, but it is the quality of finishing which we need.

Kilson810
Been Liked: 1 time
Has Liked: 950 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Kilson810 » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:33 pm

clive40golf wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:17 pm
Genuine question, is that true? I’d read somewhere that he’d acted impeccably, still interacting with the fans right upto the day he left.
Yes I thought the same. Both parties were aware he was going to leave, as I believe it was agreed before he joined that he would be allowed to leave if we went down. Could be wrong.

pureclaret
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:38 pm
Been Liked: 537 times
Has Liked: 216 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by pureclaret » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:47 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:28 pm
He’s not Chelsea level but he’s really not that bad. He would be great for us. Quick, tall, powerful. Needs to improve his finishing but he got 16 goal contributions (12 goals, 4 assists) in 26 games last year in La liga
Is Jackson the one who has 8 yellow cards and a suspension so far this season and none of them for a foul, sounds like he could be fun

CHEWBACCA
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:04 pm
Been Liked: 109 times
Has Liked: 267 times
Location: Sheeptown

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by CHEWBACCA » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:50 pm

Why bother with another striker when we're gonna be relegated anyway?
Just more money wasting !

boatshed bill
Posts: 17375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3565 times
Has Liked: 7837 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:52 pm

CHEWBACCA wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:50 pm
Why bother with another striker when we're gonna be relegated anyway?
Just more money wasting !
We won't go down if we can start scoring a few more goals .

Westleigh
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:09 pm
Been Liked: 241 times
Has Liked: 230 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Westleigh » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:54 pm

Goliath wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:55 pm
There probably isnt one in the UK. But it skunds like Foster will be back after Xmas so it probabky wont be a priority.
I think a right back has to be the main priority, the 2 weve got are nowhere near Prem level.
After that a backup left back which would mean we need to let some players go, probably Churlinov and another
Won’t Lyle have to go to the African Cup of Nations if he’s fit?

CHEWBACCA
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:04 pm
Been Liked: 109 times
Has Liked: 267 times
Location: Sheeptown

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by CHEWBACCA » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:54 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:52 pm
We won't go down if we can start scoring a few more goals .
I hope you are right but it's gonna take some kind of miracle to stay up !

ClaretTony
Posts: 77753
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 38049 times
Has Liked: 5774 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:02 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:52 pm
We won't go down if we can start scoring a few more goals .
We will. We need to stop them going in at the other end if we are to have a chance.
This user liked this post: CHEWBACCA

Goliath
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:08 pm
Been Liked: 783 times
Has Liked: 291 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Goliath » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:02 pm

Westleigh wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:54 pm
Won’t Lyle have to go to the African Cup of Nations if he’s fit?
How many games would he likely miss? I was presuming itd only be 1 or 2 games because i thought it coincided with the winter break

boatshed bill
Posts: 17375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3565 times
Has Liked: 7837 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:04 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:02 pm
We will. We need to stop them going in at the other end if we are to have a chance.
A bit of improvement needed at both ends, I think.

ClaretTony
Posts: 77753
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 38049 times
Has Liked: 5774 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:11 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:04 pm
A bit of improvement needed at both ends, I think.
We’ve actually scored more than at this stage of the season when we reached Europe but we’ve conceded a shed load more.

This is our goals record in the Premier League seasons after 16 games.

2009/10
Scored 20 Conceded 34

2014/15
Scored 11 Conceded 24

2016/17
Scored 16 Conceded 26

2017/18
Scored 15 Conceded 12

2018/19
Scored 15 Conceded 32

2019/20
Scored 21 Conceded 29

2020/21
Scored 8 Conceded 21

2021/22
Scored 15 Conceded 24

2023/24
Scored 16 Conceded 34

boatshed bill
Posts: 17375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3565 times
Has Liked: 7837 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:18 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:11 pm
We’ve actually scored more than at this stage of the season when we reached Europe but we’ve conceded a shed load more.

This is our goals record in the Premier League seasons after 16 games.

2009/10
Scored 20 Conceded 34

2014/15
Scored 11 Conceded 24

2016/17
Scored 16 Conceded 26

2017/18
Scored 15 Conceded 12

2018/19
Scored 15 Conceded 32

2019/20
Scored 21 Conceded 29

2020/21
Scored 8 Conceded 21

2021/22
Scored 15 Conceded 24

2023/24
Scored 16 Conceded 34

That's amazing. 17-18 season was unbelievable

Tricky Trevor
Posts: 10805
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:06 pm
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 2534 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Tricky Trevor » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:19 pm

Obafemi, when fit, would do a better job than Jay. It's sad to see Jay at the level he has reached. I'd rather remember the best of him.
We need to look overseas for a young, hungry goalscorer. They are out there.

Goliath
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:08 pm
Been Liked: 783 times
Has Liked: 291 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Goliath » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:27 pm

Obafemi wouldnt link the play or drop deep so the brighton goal probably doesnt happen with him in the team. Hed be trying to play off the shoulder all the time so thered be a lot of responsibilty on amdouni to link midfield and attack.
I actually think Rodriguez and obafemi (foster when hes fit)might be the most effective partnership with amdouni as an impact sub.

ClaretTony
Posts: 77753
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 38049 times
Has Liked: 5774 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:30 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:19 pm
Obafemi, when fit, would do a better job than Jay. It's sad to see Jay at the level he has reached. I'd rather remember the best of him.
We need to look overseas for a young, hungry goalscorer. They are out there.
I think Jay has been playing well recently but he could do with more support than is being offered by Amdouni

StayingDown4Ever
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:02 am
Been Liked: 269 times
Has Liked: 161 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by StayingDown4Ever » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:30 pm
I think Jay has been playing well recently but he could do with more support than is being offered by Amdouni
Other way around for me. Although neither have been great, Amdouni has been the better of the two in my opinion.

boatshed bill
Posts: 17375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3565 times
Has Liked: 7837 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:51 pm

StayingDown4Ever wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:45 pm
Other way around for me. Although neither have been great, Amdouni has been the better of the two in my opinion.

Amdouni is a bit of a loose canon in my opinion, goes all over the place.
I think JR could do with someone playing much more in tandem with him.
These 2 users liked this post: Goliath CoolClaret

ClaretTony
Posts: 77753
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 38049 times
Has Liked: 5774 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:29 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:51 pm
Amdouni is a bit of a loose canon in my opinion, goes all over the place.
I think JR could do with someone playing much more in tandem with him.
Lacks any sort of discipline at times and is all over the place. He doesn’t support Jay.

Jakubs Tash
Posts: 3243
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 pm
Been Liked: 838 times
Has Liked: 297 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:29 pm
Lacks any sort of discipline at times and is all over the place. He doesn’t support Jay.
Unfortunately, Jay doesn’t offer enough at this level now - regardless of how much ‘support’ he might need. He’s not mobile enough and doesn’t have the pace required.

tarkys_ears
Posts: 4958
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:30 pm
Been Liked: 1231 times
Has Liked: 1908 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by tarkys_ears » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:11 pm

What's Danny ings upto these days?

claretspice
Posts: 6442
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 3179 times
Has Liked: 151 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by claretspice » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:23 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:29 pm
Lacks any sort of discipline at times and is all over the place. He doesn’t support Jay.
I said at the weekend- he's good in possession but he doesn’t do enough off the ball- either defensively but most especially in making runs off the ball. He makes runs, some good ones - but he doesn’t make enough and if he doesn't get the ball when he makes a run he rarely makes a different run immediately. That is making him easy to mark but it's also making it harder for Rodriguez (and others) to find space.

As for a striker to buy- this is very hard and there will be few good options available but Ings is as good a shout as any who are plausible and won't break the bank (given survival is odds against from here) and his experience might be helpful in giving the likes of Amdouni someone to learn from. The problem of course will be wages.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 13297
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1990 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:36 pm

StayingDown4Ever wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:45 pm
Other way around for me. Although neither have been great, Amdouni has been the better of the two in my opinion.
Been one of the biggest lets down in my opinion.

Clearly has talent but he’s a total luxury player, which is just the opposite of what you need in a relegation battle.

Goliath
Posts: 4060
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:08 pm
Been Liked: 783 times
Has Liked: 291 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Goliath » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:38 pm

Im not sure Ings has got anything left. Its painful watching him trying to run these days. Dont think we will see much more of him at this level.
Could be an absolute disaster of a signing on high wages. A loan option with an option to buy in summer sounds a bit less risky

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 13297
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1990 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:42 pm

A player I would love us to go after (reminds me of foster) is Adams at Montpellier. Having a fantastic season after his breakthrough last year in Lillestrom.

Would probably take a substantial fee though (north of 20m).

Anthonini
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:56 am
Been Liked: 208 times
Has Liked: 259 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Anthonini » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:17 am

It's a pity that Union SG has such good connections with Brighton but after Mitoma Adingra and Boniface they seem to have another gem on their hands.

23 year old Mohamed Amoura they bought for 4 million euros this summer from Italian club Lugano and he's currently at 11 goals in 12 games. Kind of looks like a small pocket version of Amdouni, he's definitely faster and more of a real number 9 always thinking efficiently.

The only downside is he's a little guy and with Obafemi and Amdouni it's about the same type we already have. Though in the system we play I do think a small yet very fast player could do very well.

Probably will go to Brighton this summer I reckon, but worth a look at. He scored two beautiful goals this weekend again.

https://youtu.be/ZbyuRneB4n0?si=oJUVrZKFA8A_qmET

Anthonini
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2023 10:56 am
Been Liked: 208 times
Has Liked: 259 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Anthonini » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:38 am

AA Gent have a few interesting strikers as well. Gift Orban and Hugo Cuypers. Might not be that expensive.

Orban scored 15 goals in 16 games last season. They wanted to sell him for big money but failed to do so this summer. This season he's been rather poor with 3 goals in 14 games. Which is the reason why his price probably dropped considerably and could make him an option for us.

CoolClaret
Posts: 10133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 3209 times
Has Liked: 3196 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by CoolClaret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:08 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:30 pm
I think Jay has been playing well recently but he could do with more support than is being offered by Amdouni
claretspice wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:23 pm

I said at the weekend- he's good in possession but he doesn’t do enough off the ball- either defensively but most especially in making runs off the ball. He makes runs, some good ones - but he doesn’t make enough and if he doesn't get the ball when he makes a run he rarely makes a different run immediately. That is making him easy to mark but it's also making it harder for Rodriguez (and others) to find space.

As for a striker to buy- this is very hard and there will be few good options available but Ings is as good a shout as any who are plausible and won't break the bank (given survival is odds against from here) and his experience might be helpful in giving the likes of Amdouni someone to learn from. The problem of course will be wages.
boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:51 pm
Amdouni is a bit of a loose canon in my opinion, goes all over the place.
I think JR could do with someone playing much more in tandem with him.
Totally agree on all fronts.

Amdouni clearly is a very talented footballer but his lack of nous playing in a proper league is showing for me.

For some strange reason people like to have a pop at Jay - least he's getting into those positions and is brave enough to go for the ball in the box.
I believe we'd be looking better if an Obafemi type was partnering JR up top, with Amdouni as a bench option.

It's the same sort of fan that have had a pop at players lke Vitinho/Brownhill that have been getting through an unbelievable amount of work - it seems to me like odd top class touches here and there do seem to leave a lasting impression and exaggerate performances to some.

Wouldn't go anywhere near Ings like though he looks finished at this level - especially for the type of player that he is.

If we are to go for another striker it needs to be someone who likes to run and drift wide in to the channels, not another one who likes it into feet.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 13297
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1990 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:14 am

CoolClaret wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:08 am
Totally agree on all fronts.

Amdouni clearly is a very talented footballer but his lack of nous playing in a proper league is showing for me.

For some strange reason people like to have a pop at Jay - least he's getting into those positions and is brave enough to go for the ball in the box.
I believe we'd be looking better if an Obafemi type was partnering JR up top, with Amdouni as a bench option.

It's the same sort of fan that have had a pop at players lke Vitinho/Brownhill that have been getting through an unbelievable amount of work - it seems to me like odd top class touches here and there do seem to leave a lasting impression and exaggerate performances to some.

Wouldn't go anywhere near Ings like though he looks finished at this level - especially for the type of player that he is.

If we are to go for another striker it needs to be someone who likes to run and drift wide in to the channels, not another one who likes it into feet.
Have a look at that Adams at Montpellier, I reckon he’s perfect for our system personally

RVclaret
Posts: 16505
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:30 am
Been Liked: 4552 times
Has Liked: 3056 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by RVclaret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:31 am

Amdouni is currently in the top 4% in the entire league vs other attackers for tackles per 90, top 20% for interceptions and top 15% for clearances. Yet doesn’t offer much defensively?

It’s interesting as the other day a poster suggested he was too static, then we have another here suggesting he moves way too much. Which is it?

My opinion is that he’s technically the most talented player we’ve had since Defour, needs to bulk up a bit in that position and needs to offer more in the opponents penalty area.. but everything in between is pretty alright. I also think he’d suit playing alongside Foster, stretching play, rather than a slightly off the pace and slow Rodriguez.

Top 4% in the league for progressive carry’s (ball carrying towards the opponents goal), 8% for pass completion, 15% for successful dribbles past an opponent. Those are pretty encouraging stats for a player in a team 2nd bottom.
These 4 users liked this post: Anthonini spt_claret Darnhill Claret Holtyclaret

jojomk1
Posts: 5670
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:20 am
Been Liked: 978 times
Has Liked: 654 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by jojomk1 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:35 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:29 pm
Lacks any sort of discipline at times and is all over the place. He doesn’t support Jay.
I assume VK fancies him as he always seems to start him

As for Jay, he is also "all over the place" - dropping deep on numerous occasions leaving nobody up front

Amdouni is better than Jay but needs a proper No 9 (such as Lyle) in front of him

It's not going to happen, but there are worse options than Weghorst and Amdouni working together

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 13297
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1990 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:36 am

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:31 am
Amdouni is currently in the top 4% in the entire league vs other attackers for tackles per 90, top 20% for interceptions and top 15% for clearances. Yet doesn’t offer much defensively?

It’s interesting as the other day a poster suggested he was too static, then we have another here suggesting he moves way too much. Which is it?

My opinion is that he’s technically the most talented player we’ve had since Defour, needs to bulk up a bit in that position and needs to offer more in the opponents penalty area.. but everything in between is pretty alright. I also think he’d suit playing alongside Foster, stretching play, rather than a slightly off the pace and slow Rodriguez.

Top 4% in the league for progressive carry’s (ball carrying towards the opponents goal), 8% for pass completion, 15% for successful dribbles past an opponent. Those are pretty encouraging stats for a player in a team 2nd bottom.
All impressive stats but I think most can see he’s a luxury player. I am not arguing he is talented btw, I think he’s unbelievably talented. However, I think there’s been one game this season where I have said to myself he’s a handful for the opposition.

And I think your right, a lot of that is down to physicality, I think he just gets bullied most games and as a result struggles to effect play.

I am also not sure we know his best position. He certainly can’t lead the line, but then sitting just off a striker is also preventing our midfield from retaining the ball as well as we would like.

He’s definitely an interesting challenge for VK to try resolve.

CoolClaret
Posts: 10133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 3209 times
Has Liked: 3196 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by CoolClaret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:43 am

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:31 am
Amdouni is currently in the top 4% in the entire league vs other attackers for tackles per 90, top 20% for interceptions and top 15% for clearances. Yet doesn’t offer much defensively?

It’s interesting as the other day a poster suggested he was too static, then we have another here suggesting he moves way too much. Which is it?

My opinion is that he’s technically the most talented player we’ve had since Defour, needs to bulk up a bit in that position and needs to offer more in the opponents penalty area.. but everything in between is pretty alright. I also think he’d suit playing alongside Foster, stretching play, rather than a slightly off the pace and slow Rodriguez.

Top 4% in the league for progressive carry’s (ball carrying towards the opponents goal), 8% for pass completion, 15% for successful dribbles past an opponent. Those are pretty encouraging stats for a player in a team 2nd bottom.
I think using pretty isolated stats like that to paint a picture can be a bit of a red herring if honest RV - Jay Rod is top 4% percentile for example for dribble success, top 6% for not being dispossesed and also top 10% for tackles... Don't see anyone claming JayRod has turned the clock back 10 years to some dynamic dribbler?

The argument for me is that he doesn't seem to be able to force his way into a game to effect play like we need of him in key areas. That will come with more experience and more experience playing in the top league which is just a different animal than what he's been used to.

& The fact his game isn't playing on the last shoulder, both him and JR want the ball to feet - if our wingers can't stretch play then we become a lot easier to play against.

CoolClaret
Posts: 10133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 3209 times
Has Liked: 3196 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by CoolClaret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:45 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:14 am
Have a look at that Adams at Montpellier, I reckon he’s perfect for our system personally
Looks a big strong boy with an eye for goal.

Certainly fits the profile age wise - probably has a few suitors after him... can't say I watch too much ligue un though!

RVclaret
Posts: 16505
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:30 am
Been Liked: 4552 times
Has Liked: 3056 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by RVclaret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:24 am

CoolClaret wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:43 am
I think using pretty isolated stats like that to paint a picture can be a bit of a red herring if honest RV - Jay Rod is top 4% percentile for example for dribble success, top 6% for not being dispossesed and also top 10% for tackles... Don't see anyone claming JayRod has turned the clock back 10 years to some dynamic dribbler?

The argument for me is that he doesn't seem to be able to force his way into a game to effect play like we need of him in key areas. That will come with more experience and more experience playing in the top league which is just a different animal than what he's been used to.

& The fact his game isn't playing on the last shoulder, both him and JR want the ball to feet - if our wingers can't stretch play then we become a lot easier to play against.
Wouldn’t call them isolated, they are some of the key listed metrics on fbref, and there’s around 6/7 data points there over the full season. Jay has only started around 4 games so it’s a much smaller sample size.

Agree on the latter two paragraphs!
This user liked this post: Darnhill Claret

spt_claret
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
Been Liked: 815 times
Has Liked: 484 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by spt_claret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:37 am

clive40golf wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:17 pm
Genuine question, is that true? I’d read somewhere that he’d acted impeccably, still interacting with the fans right upto the day he left.
He was interacting with fans sure, but he wasn't attending training and was still with us when the season started but not even on the bench.
He couldn't leave quick enough, he was a good player for one season and very personable to fans but that's the easy PR stuff. He was out to leave as soon as we went down- and I'm not saying he should be booed either. It's a job ultimately, he signed for a Premier League team having played in the Champions League, the club was relegated, the offer/position he joined for was no longer the offer/position he was working for, people in ordinary jobs leave when expectations or situations change, they might get paid shedloads more but the mentality's the same.

My only point is it's absurd to boo Weghorst over a perceived lack of loyalty, when ultimately he explained his reasoning very clearly- he had to play top flight to go to the World Cup - and he did briefly return from his loan, but to look at Cornet fondly for being off in a shot. But then we have idiots who boo McNeil when he came through our youth ranks and from what I've heard part of that departure was about financing the team rebuild rather than him wanting away.

Weghorst became an easy boo boy because he was too honest. If there was refusal to play after we were promoted, or lack of co-operation between him and the team, that's another matter and I can understand sending him away again- but I didn't see much sign of either in pre-season.

StayingDown4Ever
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:02 am
Been Liked: 269 times
Has Liked: 161 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by StayingDown4Ever » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:43 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:36 pm
Been one of the biggest lets down in my opinion.

Clearly has talent but he’s a total luxury player, which is just the opposite of what you need in a relegation battle.
I hear what you are saying, but I suppose on the flip side a spent Jay Rodriguez isn’t what you need in the Premier League either. Maybe if Amdouni had someone playing up there with him who had more legs we’d see a lot more from him.

CoolClaret
Posts: 10133
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
Been Liked: 3209 times
Has Liked: 3196 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by CoolClaret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:05 am

spt_claret wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:37 am

Weghorst became an easy boo boy because he was too honest. If there was refusal to play after we were promoted, or lack of co-operation between him and the team, that's another matter and I can understand sending him away again- but I didn't see much sign of either in pre-season.
Aye this is ultimately it. I’m not particularly arsed, infact, I like honesty.

Some prefer token gestures and platitudes - least we knew where we stood with Wout!
This user liked this post: Quicknick

spt_claret
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:52 pm
Been Liked: 815 times
Has Liked: 484 times

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by spt_claret » Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:32 am

CoolClaret wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:43 am
I think using pretty isolated stats like that to paint a picture can be a bit of a red herring if honest RV - Jay Rod is top 4% percentile for example for dribble success, top 6% for not being dispossesed and also top 10% for tackles... Don't see anyone claming JayRod has turned the clock back 10 years to some dynamic dribbler?

The argument for me is that he doesn't seem to be able to force his way into a game to effect play like we need of him in key areas. That will come with more experience and more experience playing in the top league which is just a different animal than what he's been used to.

& The fact his game isn't playing on the last shoulder, both him and JR want the ball to feet - if our wingers can't stretch play then we become a lot easier to play against.
I agree stats need to be looked at more holistically. You can't just go off %, you have to go off raw numbers, and numbers per 90, as well, and look at what the lot say. So let's do that:

Amdounis stats on tackling as per FBRef: https://fbref.com/en/players/2ee5b0c9/s ... ing-Report
tackles made- top 4%
tackles won- top 5%
tackles in the attacking third- top 1%
dribblers tackled- top 5%
dribblers tackled successfully + unsuccessfully (ie total pressing) - top 8%
Percentage of tackles won- top 18%
Blocks- top 7%
shots blocked- top 1%
passes blocked- not as good, top 35%
interceptions- top 29%
tackles/interceptions combined- top 11%

For what it's worth his attacking creativity also scores well. He's 96th percentile for progressive carries, 75th for final third/penalty area, 89th for carry distance, 93rd for progressive carry distance, 94th for attempted takeons, 89th for successful ones. His PERCENTAGE of successful takeons is low, he's only 13th percentile, but that's because he attempts it so much.

Compare to Jay: https://fbref.com/en/players/4ab53cdb/s ... ing-Report

tackles made- top 2%. - he scores slightly better
tackles won- top 2% - scores better
tackles in the attacking third- top 5%- scores worse (though he does do quite a lot better in the defence & midfield thirds)
dribblers tackled- top 1%, scores better
dribblers tackled successfully + unsuccessfully (ie total pressing) - top 8%, tied with Amdouni, raw stat is 1.28 vs 1.29 almost identical
Percentage of tackles won- top 4%, scores a decent margin better
Simple interpretation- Jay's a much more successful tackler even if they attempt it the exact same frequency. Amdouni is still towards the top of the league for pressing and tackling strikers though.

On the other defensive stats for Jay:
Blocks- top 11%, scores worse
shots blocked- top 26%, scores much worse
passes blocked- not as good, top 35%
interceptions- not so good, 41st percentile ie. top 59%, Amdouni's much better
tackles/interceptions combined- top 11%, an exact tie.
Jay scores better on clearances also.
Again a simple interpretation- Jay is the better tackler, Amdouni the better presser/interceptor, when you combine both stats they come out at pretty much identical in terms of defensive performance, the only real difference is Jay makes more defensive tackles and clearances, while Amdouni makes more tackles high up the pitch and presses better & earlier.

On dribbling, Jay's only any good at takeon percentage. Sure he;s top 1% for successful takeons and avoiding tackles- he's in the bottom 3% for attempted dribbles. His dribbling data is completely skewed by the minimal number of dribbles he makes. Amdouni attempts dribbles FAR more, on average 10 times more roughly, Jay attempts 1 take-on every 2 games it's such minimal data it's impossible to use the percentages reliably to compare as you don't have enough examples of him attempting one. Jay is bottom 2% for total carry distance. Bottom 1% for progressive carry distance. Bottom 1% for progressive carries attempted, and carries into the box. Bottom 2% for carries into the attacking third. He's dispossessed/miscontrols less sure, but he does nothing with the ball when he has it.

Jay's passing is worse, across all distances and types he's far less accurate, but he ATTEMPTS less too, this is a very significant stat- Jay makes fewer passes, and less of his are successful as a percentage, than Amdouni. And Amdouni makes more progressive passes than Jay too- 71st percentile vs 41st. Jay's getting the ball forward less, slower, less often, and less successfully. Again the picture it shows is- his 'successful dribble percentage' and reasonable miscontrol/dispossession stats are because he's not doing anything with the ball.

They have similar number of shots per 90, Amdouni's are on target much more- 92nd percentile vs 53rd. Amdouni's xG differential (goals minus expected goals) is negative, suggesting he should score slightly more than he is- Jay's is worse. -0.03 vs -0.11, Jay's drops to -0.14 when you take out pens.

It's very hard to find stats on distance covered per 90 but between the pressing/interception stats, and a glance over Sofascore heatmaps, I'd be amazed if Amdouni isn't way ahead of Jay on distance covered.

Amdouni's not a luxury player at all. He works hard, he drives us forward very well and progressively with both his dribbling and passing, his tackling is very good high up the pitch, okay elsewhere, his pressing is very good. Jay tackles well all across the pitch, but that's it. His productivity is nonexistant- and I really do hate saying this about Jay because I think he's the player above everyone else in the team who everyone always wants to do well and score, him coming back was a wonderful story. But he's not productive on the pitch.
This user liked this post: Darnhill Claret

CnBtruntru
Posts: 4395
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:39 pm
Been Liked: 724 times
Has Liked: 673 times
Location: Wexford, Ireland. via Nelson.

Re: What striker is a feasible buy in January?

Post by CnBtruntru » Tue Dec 12, 2023 10:03 am

tarkys_ears wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:11 pm
What's Danny ings upto these days?
No,no,no, the medical room is already at capacity ;)

Post Reply