The Mood has changed

[Dark Cloud]

I'd still be keeping VK, but he's got to realise that walking the Championship is a totally different thing to competing in the PL. Surely he of all people knew that and if he did why did he get his summer priorities and signings so bloody wrong! After last season he has enough credit in the bank (imo) to take us down and be given another go, but I have to say I'm incredibly disappointed with how he's approached this season and I'm becoming less and less convinced that Pace will keep the faith for much longer. We'll see!

[taio]

Bigger and stronger squad. Lacks balance agree.

Team, well it depends, JBG wouldn’t be starting on the wide right in last seasons team and Taylor wouldn’t start left back, given the requirements for each league - but Berge is an upgrade on all our midfield, from what we’ve seen so far, Foster is an upgrade on Barnes/Rodriguez, Odobert/Koleosho are a level above Zaroury and Benson, while Amdouni is quite a bit clear of anyone else who played in the 10 kind of area. So it seems we may disagree on that point.

That’s before I go onto the squad, last seasons back up winger was Churlinov, someone who’s best season was 4 goals 2 assists in the Bundesliga 2, now it’s Tresor, a guy who just won the Belgian league player of the year with 35 goal contributions and capped as a Belgian international, and Redmond, 300+ games in the PL.

Far too earlier for making such judgements on players like Odobert and Tresor in my view, and Churlinov has hardly played for us. Amdouni still much more to do. Agree on Berge and Koleosho - they are the new successes so far.

[NewClaret]

You say we aren't converting chances and had 14 shots yesterday, can you name me a decent chance we missed? Or a good save Pickford made?

You say we've signed better players but a squad isn't built on just buying better players you've gotta have everybody pulling in the same direction, everybody happy, VK upset last seasons squad straight away this year so all those will want out in January or the summer. Also the better players we've signed will be gone I'd anticipate at least 15 players leaving in the summer, that's another complete rebuild so how strong this season's squad is is completely irrelevant.

Everybody can see there's a huge difference in quality but if you can't see we are setting up completely wrong game after game then there's no point arguing with you about it either, if we go down and come back up playing the same do you think we'd suddenly survive that year?
There's more chance of staying down for a long time than there is of bouncing straight back, no sensible club takes that risk

Well he didn’t have anywhere near enough saves to make, that was my point. 14 times we attempted to trouble him & didn’t enough. But to answer your question:

- There was a scramble or two first half that could’ve gone anywhere and in typical Dyche fashion they got blocks in.
- The Godfrey tackle was top class (and lucky not to be a OG) but a better, more experienced striker doesnt wait there and moves in front of Godfrey for a tap in.
- Lyle put an unchallenged header wide.
- Berge hit the bar.

How do you know last seasons squad are unhappy? Has anyone said so? No signs of that. They’re under long term contracts so it’ll be the club that decide if they stay or go.

In what way are we setting up incorrectly? What formation and tactics would you play?

Tbh I think it’s way past it. We are down. No team has ever stayed up with such a low points tally at this stage. I’m confident we’ll be very competitive in the league below as evidenced basically by taking points off the other teams around us. Am I confident we’ll stay up if we came back up. Not really. Let’s face it, we’re not a prem team. Or at least we’ll always be small and in the lower half if we are. I’m not really certain we could ever do it playing this style with the quality of players we can afford. But I am confident that if we kept this team together we’d stand more chance as they’ve basically played 15 or so games together and are very young.

But if the alternative is playing like Everton did yesterday, then frankly I’d rather go down and stay down. Yes they went home happy with a win, they earned it & fair play to them, but flip the performances and I wouldn’t be happy watching that every week.

[mdd2]

Not sure if we had the £ to get Tella but if we did he should have been number 1 on the "get list" and I doubt anyone on here would disagree. Yet we replaced our number 1 keeper with a sappling keeper for up to £20million and yes he is a good shot stopper but he has along with our so called defence cost us a shed full of points.
We changed keepers after boxing day one season when we had 12 points from 19games-maybe if we do the same again things will pick up, but I doubt it.

[bumba]

Well he didn’t have anywhere near enough saves to make, that was my point. 14 times we attempted to trouble him & didn’t enough. But to answer your question:

- There was a scramble or two first half that could’ve gone anywhere and in typical Dyche fashion they got blocks in.
- The Godfrey tackle was top class (and lucky not to be a OG) but a better, more experienced striker doesnt wait there and moves in front of Godfrey for a tap in.
- Lyle put an unchallenged header wide.
- Berge hit the bar.

How do you know last seasons squad are unhappy? Has anyone said so? No signs of that. They’re under long term contracts so it’ll be the club that decide if they stay or go.

In what way are we setting up incorrectly? What formation and tactics would you play?

Tbh I think it’s way past it. We are down. No team has ever stayed up with such a low points tally at this stage. I’m confident we’ll be very competitive in the league below as evidenced basically by taking points off the other teams around us. Am I confident we’ll stay up if we came back up. Not really. Let’s face it, we’re not a prem team. Or at least we’ll always be small and in the lower half if we are. I’m not really certain we could ever do it playing this style with the quality of players we can afford. But I am confident that if we kept this team together we’d stand more chance as they’ve basically played 15 or so games together and are very young.

But if the alternative is playing like Everton did yesterday, then frankly I’d rather go down and stay down. Yes they went home happy with a win, they earned it & fair play to them, but flip the performances and I wouldn’t be happy watching that every week.

I'd definitely rather watch what Everton produced yesterday over what we are producing every week whether they won or not, they played well and didn't break sweat.
We have no style anymore it's so boring to watch it isn't this good football people believe.
Do you think the players from last season not getting a game are going to be happy getting the club promoted then not being given a proper opportunity in the premier league, come you can't be that naive they'll be seething.
13 defeats in 17 tells me we are setting up incorrectly and the fact we're not even in most games

[Murger]

After ripping apart a Championship winning team, why would any player risk being tossed to 1 side in the event of winning promotion again?

[Ampth7]

The thing that concerns me the most this season is how easy it has been for many of our opponents so far to date.

Moving forwards, whilst I don’t personally want VK to be sacked, unless results change significantly then I can’t see how his position will remain tenable. At the rate we are going, we’ll be lucky to break 20 points which just isn’t good enough and VK would have to be made accountable for that.

[RVclaret]

Far too earlier for making such judgements on players like Odobert and Tresor in my view, and Churlinov has hardly played for us. Amdouni still much more to do. Agree on Berge and Koleosho - they are the new successes so far.

Odobert has 2 goals in 4 starts for us. Just to illustrate my point of the gap between the two leagues, Summerville scored 4 goals in 28 games for the Leeds last season, 0 assists. Leeds rejected bids over £17m for him in the summer according to reports. This season, 10 goals 6 assists in 19 games, currently the best player in the league.

Amdouni does have much more to do (in this league), which includes more intensity and strength, but the guy finished joint 2nd top scorer in the Euro qualifiers and won the Europa Conference League golden boot last season. Put him in a ball dominant team against poor defences and he’d run riot (see Sheff Utd), particularly alongside Foster.

I know it’s hard to see the bigger picture or find sense when we see weary performances like yesterday, and have 8 points all season, but I think some fair perspective/comparisons is required.

[taio]

Odobert has 2 goals in 4 starts for us. Just to illustrate my point of the gap between the two leagues, Summerville scored 4 goals in 28 games for the Leeds last season, 0 assists. Leeds rejected bids over £17m for him in the summer according to reports. This season, 10 goals 6 assists in 19 games, currently the best player in the league.

Amdouni does have much more to do (in this league), which includes more intensity and strength, but the guy finished joint 2nd top scorer in the Euro qualifiers and won the Europa Conference League golden boot last season. Put him in a ball dominant team against poor defences and he’d run riot (see Sheff Utd), particularly alongside Foster.

I know it’s hard to see the bigger picture or find sense when we see weary performances like yesterday, and have 8 points all season, but I think some fair perspective/comparisons is required.

I only said I'm not sure this season's team is better than last season's. So I'm not sure it's reasonable to imply I'm not seeing the bigger picture, finding sense, or giving a fair perspective. I'm well aware of the stark differences between the Championship and Premier League; indeed it's why its not straightforward to make such clear cut comparisons and judgements.

[Clovius Boofus]

I'd definitely rather watch what Everton produced yesterday over what we are producing every week whether they won or not,

Bumba, maybe I'm wrong, but weren't you one of Dyche's worst critics on here?

[CoolClaret]

After ripping apart a Championship winning team, why would any player risk being tossed to 1 side in the event of winning promotion again?

These are the real pertinent points that some posters seem to be glossing over.

Mental how we lined up against City and Villa.

Just not what you do - baffling VK couldn’t see this.

Sorry but the more I think about it the angrier I get - he’s absolutely orchestrated this mess and probably thought he was dead smart in doing so.

Not to mention he’s on a ******* good whack. Same **** different week. Bored of it

[RVclaret]

I only said I'm not sure this season's team is better than last season's. So I'm not sure it's reasonable to imply I'm not seeing the bigger picture, finding sense, or giving a fair perspective. I'm well aware of the stark differences between the Championship and Premier League; indeed it's why it’s not straightforward to make such clear cut comparisons and judgements.

The comparison thing wasn’t particularly aimed at you, more so folk saying Championship teams would just do an Everton and we’d struggle, or others saying this squad is ‘nowhere near that from last season’.

[bumba]

Bumba, maybe I'm wrong, but weren't you one of Dyche's worst critics on here?

In his last season yes and I stand by that it'd gone stale not what we was used too under Dyche.

[CoolClaret]

Odobert has 2 goals in 4 starts for us. Just to illustrate my point of the gap between the two leagues, Summerville scored 4 goals in 28 games for the Leeds last season, 0 assists. Leeds rejected bids over £17m for him in the summer according to reports. This season, 10 goals 6 assists in 19 games, currently the best player in the league.

Amdouni does have much more to do (in this league), which includes more intensity and strength, but the guy finished joint 2nd top scorer in the Euro qualifiers and won the Europa Conference League golden boot last season. Put him in a ball dominant team against poor defences and he’d run riot (see Sheff Utd), particularly alongside Foster.

I know it’s hard to see the bigger picture or find sense when we see weary performances like yesterday, and have 8 points all season, but I think some fair perspective/comparisons is required.

And Bobby Thomas just marked him out of a game

[Boss Hogg]

I sensed a mood change yesterday. I saw many bored people who didn’t look like they wanted to be there. The atmosphere wasn’t great yesterday compared to previous games. There were many in the concourses quite early for half time not even bothering to watch the team on the screen. There many who didn’t have want to get back on for the second half for some time. It feels like everyone has given up which isn’t surprising when we lose nearly every game and have a soft inexperienced team with a suspect playing style and no fight in it.

If we want to stay up the manager will have to go imminently. If the board accept relegation at this early stage ( which looks to be the case) he stays. Don’t agree with the poster higher up who thinks we should change him for the Championship. He’s as much as a chance as anyone at that level and with the type of player we have. Sadly at this level he appears out of his depth and found wanting. It was clear to me after the first few games this style of football would be completely ineffective at this level with the quality of player we have. I didn’t need ‘to wait for the easier games’ Most of us didn’t expect him to make a complete balls up of the window either.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I have a few things that stop me pushing the panic button:

1. Our young team’s heads drop when we go behind (hence 0 points after being behind). So it is tricky to judge when we concede so early. The first 7 minutes we had 83% possession and when they scored those 2 goals it was during a spell when they hardly touched the ball.

2. I’m less concerned about scoring - Everton don’t concede to hardly anyone so that’s one of those things.

3. The only debate for me is the weakness in the air at the back - but we have only shipped 2 league headers and I felt the same way at Bramall Lane then we went unbeaten for ages. This Dyche team, slightly forced through absences, was giant even for them. I’d like to think this is a blip that won’t recur much.

4. January - our gaps are so obvious they seem easy to fix. Leadership, full backs, one dominant centre back. Other positions are “nice to have” like a better defensive midfielder or striker.

So, its not common on here, but I’d like to see if we pick up in the next 10 games before criticising, and I would keep Kompany no matter what. It’s too early and too rude to dismiss him as a failure at this level. I’d also suggest, from our perspective, it would be insanity. With the inexperience elsewhere in the club, if we are left with a bunch of young players and a new manager they don’t want to play for, we could drop like a stone, for good. We need to be as resilient as the team needs to be.

[StayingDown4Ever]

I have a few things that stop me pushing the panic button:

1. Our young team’s heads drop when we go behind (hence 0 points after being behind). So it is tricky to judge when we concede so early. The first 7 minutes we had 83% possession and when they scored those 2 goals it was during a spell when they hardly touched the ball.

2. I’m less concerned about scoring - Everton don’t concede to hardly anyone so that’s one of those things.

3. The only debate for me is the weakness in the air at the back - but we have only shipped 2 league headers and I felt the same way at Bramall Lane then we went unbeaten for ages. This Dyche team, slightly forced through absences, was giant even for them. I’d like to think this is a blip that won’t recur much.

4. January - our gaps are so obvious they seem easy to fix. Leadership, full backs, one dominant centre back. Other positions are “nice to have” like a better defensive midfielder or striker.

So, its not common on here, but I’d like to see if we pick up in the next 10 games before criticising, and I would keep Kompany no matter what. It’s too early and too rude to dismiss him as a failure at this level. I’d also suggest, from our perspective, it would be insanity. With the inexperience elsewhere in the club, if we are left with a bunch of young players and a new manager they don’t want to play for, we could drop like a stone, for good. We need to be as resilient as the team needs to be.

Your entire list makes me want to hammer the panic button.

1) Awful morale
2) Not scoring or really threatening too much
3) Woeful defending set pieces
4) Claiming we need a leader and pretty much a whole new defence (can’t believe you didn’t mention a new keeper either).

[elwaclaret]

I'd definitely rather watch what Everton produced yesterday over what we are producing every week whether they won or not, they played well and didn't break sweat.
We have no style anymore it's so boring to watch it isn't this good football people believe.
Do you think the players from last season not getting a game are going to be happy getting the club promoted then not being given a proper opportunity in the premier league, come you can't be that naive they'll be seething.
13 defeats in 17 tells me we are setting up incorrectly and the fact we're not even in most games

Much as I’d like to disagree I find it difficult. Passing football is wonderful when done with speed, accuracy and intent.

Also agree with the previous poster who pointed to the likeness of an Eddie Howe Burnley team… the main difference was that they usually scored a goal or two (at a lower level admittedly) while conceding more than they scored. Tippy tippy football is fine when you are using it to stretch the opposition, but when they are happy to just sit in and await their moment(s) we need to move it up the field and pen them in their own box, or it just peters out and we are counter attacked while out of shape. Yesterday the tactic of one touch into feet would have had the Everton back line worried and cut down their freedom to commit men forward.


I bet Dyche could not believe his luck. At 2-0 he closed the shop, possibly because he did not want to inflict a drubbing on us in the second half; more likely to keep his team fresh for the next game… with the game won. It was worrying to see some of our players smiling and joking at the end.

[CoolClaret]

I have a few things that stop me pushing the panic button:

1. Our young team’s heads drop when we go behind (hence 0 points after being behind). So it is tricky to judge when we concede so early. The first 7 minutes we had 83% possession and when they scored those 2 goals it was during a spell when they hardly touched the ball.

2. I’m less concerned about scoring - Everton don’t concede to hardly anyone so that’s one of those things.

3. The only debate for me is the weakness in the air at the back - but we have only shipped 2 league headers and I felt the same way at Bramall Lane then we went unbeaten for ages. This Dyche team, slightly forced through absences, was giant even for them. I’d like to think this is a blip that won’t recur much.

4. January - our gaps are so obvious they seem easy to fix. Leadership, full backs, one dominant centre back. Other positions are “nice to have” like a better defensive midfielder or striker.

So, its not common on here, but I’d like to see if we pick up in the next 10 games before criticising, and I would keep Kompany no matter what. It’s too early and too rude to dismiss him as a failure at this level. I’d also suggest, from our perspective, it would be insanity. With the inexperience elsewhere in the club, if we are left with a bunch of young players and a new manager they don’t want to play for, we could drop like a stone, for good. We need to be as resilient as the team needs to be.

For the 10,0000000th time

possession is calculated by the amount of passes a team completes as a % of overall passes in the game.

It means diddly squat, the most useless of useless metrics

[Carlos the Great]

This so called plan of buying players cheap and developing them before selling them on for big profits is clearly not happening ..I think Koleosho is probably the only player who I would agree fits that mould /.. it sounds like a smoke screen for a long contract for VK and if we get relegated that’s 150 million loss ./ please don’t tell me that’s all in the plan too ?

[StayingDown4Ever]

At 2-0 he closed the shop, possibly because he did not want to inflict a drubbing on us in the second half; more likely to keep his team fresh for the next game… with the game won.

why on earth would he not want to inflict a drubbing on us?

[CoolClaret]

This so called plan of buying players cheap and developing them before selling them on for big profits is clearly not happening ..I think Koleosho is probably the only player who I would agree fits that mould /.. it sounds like a smoke screen for a long contract for VK and if we get relegated that’s 150 million loss ./ please don’t tell me that’s all in the plan too ?

By this point it’s a coping mechanism at best and at worst it’s just pure gaslighting.

[taio]

By this point it’s a coping mechanism at best and at worst it’s just pure gaslighting.

How the heck is it pure gaslighting?

[Rileybobs]

But if the alternative is playing like Everton did yesterday, then frankly I’d rather go down and stay down. Yes they went home happy with a win, they earned it & fair play to them, but flip the performances and I wouldn’t be happy watching that every week.

Really? I’d have been much happier watching us play like Everton did yesterday even had we lost. Slow sideways passing with no tempo and hardly any chances created.

Give me a team of players who battle for every ball and play at a high intensity - not to mention one that can hold a lead with ease. I found yesterday one of our most infuriating performances of the season.

[CoolClaret]

How the heck is it pure gaslighting?

At its worst* - Invalidating people’s opinions/critiques with tripe one liners, questioning their commitment as a fan etc.

The only questions that should be going out are to the ones responsible for serving up this (rather expensive) shite

[Newchurch Claret]

I’ve been watching Burnley since the late 70s. In the season after we almost went out of the league, I went to every game home and away. I’ve seen seen some great teams and great players and also some woeful teams and players. I’ve watched Burnley play at over 80 league grounds. Expectations have changed dramatically during that time but the one thing that remained was effort and desire.

I’ve never, ever contemplated missing a match through choice that I’m otherwise able to get to. I am now. That’s how bad we are. It’s a horrible to experience going on the Turf at the moment.

(Of course, I’ll still go to our next match. And the one after that, but I’m sure there’s a fair few who get what I mean!)

[Boss Hogg]

I have a few things that stop me pushing the panic button:

1. Our young team’s heads drop when we go behind (hence 0 points after being behind). So it is tricky to judge when we concede so early. The first 7 minutes we had 83% possession and when they scored those 2 goals it was during a spell when they hardly touched the ball.

2. I’m less concerned about scoring - Everton don’t concede to hardly anyone so that’s one of those things.

3. The only debate for me is the weakness in the air at the back - but we have only shipped 2 league headers and I felt the same way at Bramall Lane then we went unbeaten for ages. This Dyche team, slightly forced through absences, was giant even for them. I’d like to think this is a blip that won’t recur much.

4. January - our gaps are so obvious they seem easy to fix. Leadership, full backs, one dominant centre back. Other positions are “nice to have” like a better defensive midfielder or striker.

So, its not common on here, but I’d like to see if we pick up in the next 10 games before criticising, and I would keep Kompany no matter what. It’s too early and too rude to dismiss him as a failure at this level. I’d also suggest, from our perspective, it would be insanity. With the inexperience elsewhere in the club, if we are left with a bunch of young players and a new manager they don’t want to play for, we could drop like a stone, for good. We need to be as resilient as the team needs to be.

The gaps were obvious to most fans in the close season. They weren’t filled. Instead we had wholesale and unnecessary changes. I think this has broken the morale and team spirit of last seasons players.

Most of our possession is pointless in our own half with no threat to the opposition. It mostly puts us under pressure and results in us gifting the opposition. It’s not a great stat to show how effective you are as we saw under the Dyche era.

[Vegas Claret]

These are the real pertinent points that some posters seem to be glossing over.

Mental how we lined up against City and Villa.

Just not what you do - baffling VK couldn’t see this.

Sorry but the more I think about it the angrier I get - he’s absolutely orchestrated this mess and probably thought he was dead smart in doing so.

Not to mention he’s on a ******* good whack. Same **** different week. Bored of it

nobody forces you to 'support' Burnley.

[CoolClaret]

nobody forces you to 'support' Burnley.

It’s in my blood mate, can’t help it

[Clovius Boofus]

I've been watching us since the late 1970s and I've seen far, and way beyond worse than what I've seen this season. In fact there's no comparison, and to do so would be insulting. Those no-hope seasons in the Fourth spring to mind. I used to see better Sunday League cloggers on Towneley than some of the deadbeats that disgraced our shirt around that time.

[boatshed bill]

Three or four weeks ago there were loads of full on arguments after every defeat and whose fault it was and what to do,I think yesterday 75% of the posts were all in agreement that things are going down the pan at an appalling rate,not many sticking up for the manager anymore ,if he had tried to keep most of the team together from last season and we were getting beaten most weeks at least there was hope if we went down that the squad would bounce straight back ,I think fans who expect us to walk the championship again are going to be in for a nasty shock this team will have been scrutinised by every championship manager and all they need to do is play similar to Everton and there will be lots more defeats next season.

I'm just fed up with the constant arguing.

[CoolClaret]

That’s before I go onto the squad, last seasons back up winger was Churlinov, someone who’s best season was 4 goals 2 assists in the Bundesliga 2, now it’s Tresor, a guy who just won the Belgian league player of the year with 35 goal contributions and capped as a Belgian international, and Redmond, 300+ games in the PL.

Your logic is mad at times. He was what, 22 when he signed and had a season, season and half of men’s football?

Like saying we’re shite now because Koleosho’s best season is one goal. Makes no sense

[NewClaret]

Really? I’d have been much happier watching us play like Everton did yesterday even had we lost. Slow sideways passing with no tempo and hardly any chances created.

Give me a team of players who battle for every ball and play at a high intensity - not to mention one that can hold a lead with ease. I found yesterday one of our most infuriating performances of the season.

Yep, massively. It’s not even close. By this I mean specifically if I had to watch the turgid (but excellently organised), 11 men behind the ball, low block they played for most of the second half. They were okay first half but didn’t look like creating much from open play even then. They were relying on set pieces which they executed brilliantly.

I found it one of the worst performances of the season, don’t get me wrong, there were things that are hugely frustrating to me (delivery in general but particularly dead balls, general lack of urgency & speed of passing). But I’d still rather see a team that retains possession and plays football than one who sit in and lets you have it after scoring. And despite the general slowness, we did manage to get 14 shots off so although I feel our build up is too slow it does create a decent number of chances.

Way I see it, you can decent by retaining the ball (passing it around keeper/CB’s) or by not having the ball and sitting in shape being hard to play through. In effect it’s the same thing but what I’m saying is I’d rather defend with the ball.

What

[NewClaret]

The gaps were obvious to most fans in the close season. They weren’t filled. Instead we had wholesale and unnecessary changes. I think this has broken the morale and team spirit of last seasons players.

Most of our possession is pointless in our own half with no threat to the opposition. It mostly puts us under pressure and results in us gifting the opposition. It’s not a great stat to show how effective you are as we saw under the Dyche era.

Re your team point:

I definitely think there were gaps we didn’t fill. CDM being one for me, although I think Berge has been a revelation. Then the full back positions which I’d say are our weakest link.

You might say we over stocked with wingers and that’s obviously true, although I think VK has. And it’s worth noting two of them were free or cheap (Redmond, JBL respectively) so maybe there’s a case of just taking those

The two he’s obviously dropped from last years team are Annas and Muric. Muric I disagreed with. Anass

The rest were not our players. I personally don’t think we’d be doing any better with them but Maatsen didn’t want to come, Tella was £20m and THB on a loan with a £20m fee to buy. Oh and Barnsey left (quite rightly).

So in short I can see an argument about maybe one player from last term who should’ve retained their place. We can’t retain other teams players or sign them if their price goes too high. And I’m assuming you’re not proposing we kept Barnes. So tbh I’m really not sure what you’re proposing should’ve been done massively differently team selection wise.

Re: your general play point:

No possession of the ball is pointless. It helps if you view retention of the ball as defending, because that’s what it is. You can defend by letting the opposition have the ball, sitting in shape, shepherding them to areas of the pitch you want them to have the ball, or you can use the same seconds of the game to defend with the ball as the opposition can’t score when you’re in possession. So my take on watching them pass it amongst themselves is would I rather this, or watching them attack us? Would I rather we defend with or without the ball?

The question is then, once they’re in shape (which I think we allow them to get in to too easily sometimes) how do you break them down and create goal scoring chances? Thats where I think we’ve struggled although were attempting it against the master yesterday. I do think we need to be faster passing the ball and more direct - taking players on and more risk to attack the box.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The gaps were obvious to most fans in the close season. They weren’t filled. Instead we had wholesale and unnecessary changes. I think this has broken the morale and team spirit of last seasons players.

Most of our possession is pointless in our own half with no threat to the opposition. It mostly puts us under pressure and results in us gifting the opposition. It’s not a great stat to show how effective you are as we saw under the Dyche era.

I watched United tonight play like that at Anfield, passing out from the back with Liverpool trying to pounce. They got a point despite facing 34 shots.

My point is if we try to park the bus like Dyche, it will fail. We don’t have those players. We have to keep possession and starve the opposition of momentum. I don’t have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is naive choices, the worst culprit is Vitinho, constantly passing into trouble or trying to dribble past someone near our box. He needs that coaching out of him and I wonder if that is the coaching priority?

I don’t think you can say team spirit has been thrown away - complete conjecture. But it would be fair to say I wouldn’t have made some of the choices Vinny has. The Muric / Trafford one I’d have gone 50/50 to develop them as a pair - hasn’t done BHA much harm with Verbruggen. I’d also have gone all out for some experience at the back or midfield - we were linked with Evans, Milner and Dier but I wonder how hard we tried to get them.

I think Vinny has been very naive in being dismissive of experience both in the team (evidence suggests that) and in his coaching area. But I can think that and also support him being here for the long haul. I trust him to get it right despite being frustrated each week passes without much seeming to have been learnt.

[spt_claret]

But if the alternative is playing like Everton did yesterday, then frankly I’d rather go down and stay down. Yes they went home happy with a win, they earned it & fair play to them, but flip the performances and I wouldn’t be happy watching that every week.

I can honestly never understand this logic.
It'd feel proper **** to beat Chelsea and Newcastle back to back without a goal conceded because there's not enough stepovers.
Hell let's take that logic to its extreme, lets play in League 2 and finish in the playoffs every year winning 7-0 with kids and flair every week because surely that's more fun?

Nothing beats winning and doing well in the top tier. Do it while playing a dazzling style obviously the dream but I would take that European qualification season every single time over any Championship season.

[Casper2]

Why do some posters say “nobody forces you to support Burnley” or “are you a Blackburn fan” or “shut up”and worse ,when the poster it’s aimed at has genuine concerns about what’s happening, it really adds nothing.
8 home defeats from 9 games, I think Kompany has got off pretty lightly myself , it’s mystifying he doesn’t learn .

[KRBFC]

Why do some posters say “nobody forces you to support Burnley” or “are you a Blackburn fan” or “shut up”and worse ,when the poster it’s aimed at has genuine concerns about what’s happening, it really adds nothing.
8 home defeats from 9 games, I think Kompany has got off pretty lightly myself , it’s mystifying he doesn’t learn .

Because it’s pretty boring to watch you, Bumba, Westleigh, NewcastleClaret, CoolClaret, Stayindown4ever absolutely destroy this place by hoping we lose so you can all post. Even after a good result it’s negative topic and negative topic.

You lot were moaning after 2-3 games this season, you didn’t even give the manager and team a chance to learn/adapt before going for the neck.

now you’re stuck in a position where if the team is successful you look like idiots so you want us to fail.

Last season the team was successful so what did Newcastle and Stayindown4ever post? They slagged off individual players. Westleigh has 400 posts and not a single slight positive comment amongst them.

At least when I was moaning on here it was after Dyche had been here a long time and the football had become stale, some of you simply don’t want to give VK time to learn from mistakes made and for the team to develop. I think we will bounce back stronger, you don’t, you can argue toss about it and moan all the way through it but time is the only way to see. Time he has earned. Rough with the smooth n all that.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yep, massively. It’s not even close. By this I mean specifically if I had to watch the turgid (but excellently organised), 11 men behind the ball, low block they played for most of the second half. They were okay first half but didn’t look like creating much from open play even then. They were relying on set pieces which they executed brilliantly.

I found it one of the worst performances of the season, don’t get me wrong, there were things that are hugely frustrating to me (delivery in general but particularly dead balls, general lack of urgency & speed of passing). But I’d still rather see a team that retains possession and plays football than one who sit in and lets you have it after scoring. And despite the general slowness, we did manage to get 14 shots off so although I feel our build up is too slow it does create a decent number of chances.

Way I see it, you can decent by retaining the ball (passing it around keeper/CB’s) or by not having the ball and sitting in shape being hard to play through. In effect it’s the same thing but what I’m saying is I’d rather defend with the ball.

What

Do you genuinely like this stuff we are putting out? This is literally the most boring football I have ever watched.

Everton are great to watch, three or four of there recent wins were a lovely blend of direct and passing football

[Vegas Claret]

It’s in my blood mate, can’t help it

try being supportive then, because all you seem to be doing is complaining about pretty much everything

[Westleigh]

Because it’s pretty boring to watch you, Bumba, Westleigh, NewcastleClaret, CoolClaret, Stayindown4ever absolutely destroy this place by hoping we lose so you can all post. Even after a good result it’s negative topic and negative topic.

You lot were moaning after 2-3 games this season, you didn’t even give the manager and team a chance to learn/adapt before going for the neck.

now you’re stuck in a position where if the team is successful you look like idiots so you want us to fail.

Last season the team was successful so what did Newcastle and Stayindown4ever post? They slagged off individual players. Westleigh has 400 posts and not a single slight positive comment amongst them.

At least when I was moaning on here it was after Dyche had been here a long time and the football had become stale, some of you simply don’t want to give VK time to learn from mistakes made and for the team to develop. I think we will bounce back stronger, you don’t, you can argue toss about it and moan all the way through it but time is the only way to see. Time he has earned. Rough with the smooth n all that.

How sad counting my posts ,I’ve watched Burnley for over 65 yrs and never wanted them to lose once ,so don’t you dare presume I ever want them to lose.and if your going to make things up you’ll find that I haven’t made 400 posts .

[Bordeauxclaret]

The rewriting of history is absolutely exceptional.

Love it. Cheers me up after yet another poor weekend.

[Westleigh]

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Because it’s pretty boring to watch you, Bumba, Westleigh, NewcastleClaret, CoolClaret, Stayindown4ever absolutely destroy this place by hoping we lose so you can all post. Even after a good result it’s negative topic and negative topic.

You lot were moaning after 2-3 games this season, you didn’t even give the manager and team a chance to learn/adapt before going for the neck.

now you’re stuck in a position where if the team is successful you look like idiots so you want us to fail.

Last season the team was successful so what did Newcastle and Stayindown4ever post? They slagged off individual players. Westleigh has 400 posts and not a single slight positive comment amongst them. More negatives posts ,how many posts do you want me to posy

At least when I was moaning on here it was after Dyche had been here a long time and the football had become stale, some of you simply don’t want to give VK time to learn from mistakes made and for the team to develop. I think we will bounce back stronger, you don’t, you can argue toss about it and moan all the way through it but time is the only way to see. Time he has earned. Rough with the smooth n all that.

How many posts would you like me to post to prove your a liar

[NewClaret]

Do you genuinely like this stuff we are putting out? This is literally the most boring football I have ever watched.

Everton are great to watch, three or four of there recent wins were a lovely blend of direct and passing football

There’s certainly parts of it I dislike. I think we are too slow passing the ball sometimes and the delivery both crosses and corners is woeful. I’d also like us to be more direct on occasion but we have been doing that and I imagine it didn’t at Everton because of how strong they are in the air. I’d also like us to attack the box more and take players on. The basics need to be better and there needs to be more entertainment.

But would I prefer it to what I saw of Everton yesterday - yes. 11 men behind the ball, low block, organised but turgid stuff. Predictably and avoidably brilliant at set pieces, but offered nothing else. I’ve not watched their other games so my comment was very specific:

If the only way Burnley could stay in this league is by playing like Everton did yesterday, I’d much rather us be in the Championship.

[NewClaret]

How sad counting my posts ,I’ve watched Burnley for over 65 yrs and never wanted them to lose once ,so don’t you dare presume I ever want them to lose.and if your going to make things up you’ll find that I haven’t made 400 posts .

[Newcastleclaret93]

There’s certainly parts of it I dislike. I think we are too slow passing the ball sometimes and the delivery both crosses and corners is woeful. I’d also like us to be more direct on occasion but we have been doing that and I imagine it didn’t at Everton because of how strong they are in the air. I’d also like us to attack the box more and take players on. The basics need to be better and there needs to be more entertainment.

But would I prefer it to what I saw of Everton yesterday - yes. 11 men behind the ball, low block, organised but turgid stuff. Predictably and avoidably brilliant at set pieces, but offered nothing else. I’ve not watched their other games so my comment was very specific:

If the only way Burnley could stay in this league is by playing like Everton did yesterday, I’d much rather us be in the Championship.

They have defo mixed it up this season.

There win over a very good Newcastle was by playing some excellent stuff.

Dyche has turned them into a really strong team

[NewClaret]

How sad counting my posts ,I’ve watched Burnley for over 65 yrs and never wanted them to lose once ,so don’t you dare presume I ever want them to lose.and if your going to make things up you’ll find that I haven’t made 400 posts .

You e watched Burnley for 65 years and only just found this forum in November 23?

[alwaysaclaret]

The teams in the championship won't be as good as Everton, but I get your broader point.

I personally think we should change the manager before we need to worry about next season, but I still seem to be in the minority on that one.

Lot's of people are thinking it's a given that vk will bring us back up again, although personally I'm not in that camp, won't be as easy next time. But I've been saying for 2 or 3 weeks that if that does happen, what's the point to come back to this. It clearly wouldn't be just so easy to change the manager because of the cost, not only for him but he's backroom, I was in the same hotel as the team at Reading last season and there was loads of them, so no doubt would cost a few quid, but I'm sure it will at least be in the owners thought's.

[NewClaret]

They have defo mixed it up this season.

There win over a very good Newcastle was by playing some excellent stuff.

Dyche has turned them into a really strong team

I don’t disagree with that. Dyche is a good manager, knows the Premier League (unlike our current manager) and has a much better set of players now than he had when he was here.

My point was if playing like they did yesterday is the only way we could win matches at this level then I’d rather not be in this league.

[Westleigh]

Do you not think it a progressive thing with Everton ? at the moment it’s getting 40 points on the board then cracking on,going back years Liverpool,& Arsenal won most of their games 1-0 and were horrendous to watch but then developed into entertaining teams ,Dyche was similar when he came here ,stop leaking goals then move foreward ,I would rather have had us battling for draws and the odd win for this season and actually surviving rather than trying to play football against teams that are obviously better than us then hopefully next season try to gradually become more expansive.