January transfer window rumours.

[Goliath]

No, it should reinforce our position as a yo yo type club that could be more than that if we get it right. But if just takes a couple of bad years at Championship level to undo it all.

[KRBFC]

& West Ham and Newcastle have had good teams in the past as well, Newcastle when they've had Cabaye Ba etc...

I mean, Wolves rn are 11th - are they really that good? I don't think so; they certainly aren't as god as they were 3/4 years ago.

It's nonsense that it's magically improved and is some sort of 'insurmountable gap'

Without a doubt it’s the toughest it’s ever been for me just purely on the fact I see less teams as having the potential to be relegated

[boatshed bill]

Without a doubt it’s the toughest it’s ever been for me just purely on the fact I see less teams as having the potential to be relegated

Like the middle 8 has got harder?

[Westleigh]

Like the middle 8 has got harder?

If we go down we need to build not just a side to get us back up,but one to stay there ,and that’s

really a huge challenge ,we need a pairing like VK and VVD as centre backs ,3 midfielders like Vierra and Roy Keane ,2 wingers like Giggs ,and a couple of strikers like Drogba,and Shearer.Over to you recruitment team.

[Goobs]

Without a doubt it’s the toughest it’s ever been for me just purely on the fact I see less teams as having the potential to be relegated

No just the bottom 3 are the shittest this level has seen for a while. Those above are not much better just good enough to get more than us Sheff or Luton will.

[CoolClaret]

Without a doubt it’s the toughest it’s ever been for me just purely on the fact I see less teams as having the potential to be relegated

Mate, an out of his prime Chris Wood who I'm sure you (and others) have called a donkey multiple times on here, bagged a hatty away at Newcastle for a shite Forest just a few weeks back

It's a complete myth that it's "the hardest it's ever been" - every damn year is hard, it's just that we have made a royal b0llocks up of it (which is why it's so frustrating).

Look at the team even teams like 'boro rolled out late 90s early 2000s with Juninho, Boksic, Pallister, Southgate, Schwarzer, Ince etc and they barely broke top 10

It's a copout at best, coping mechanism at worse.

[Westleigh]

We’ve wandered off the Transfer Windows Rumours a bit ,however the thing we need most is Characters ,and Character ,Mee Tarks and Wood have it in spades .

[CoolClaret]

Here's one (well out of our range mind) -

Bayern Munich wanting to offload Matthijs de Ligt who has fallen to 3rd/4th choice.

Just to indicate how progress most certainly isn't linear as some like to make out - he is another who has seemingly hit a peak level early on and has never got any better similar with a few in that Ajax 2018/19 side.

[KRBFC]

Mate, an out of his prime Chris Wood who I'm sure you (and others) have called a donkey multiple times on here, bagged a hatty away at Newcastle for a shite Forest just a few weeks back

It's a complete myth that it's "the hardest it's ever been" - every damn year is hard, it's just that we have made a royal b0llocks up of it (which is why it's so frustrating).

Look at the team even teams like 'boro rolled out late 90s early 2000s with Juninho, Boksic, Pallister, Southgate, Schwarzer, Ince etc and they barely broke top 10

It's a copout at best, coping mechanism at worse.

Does everything have to be a **** on Burnley thing? Swap us out with Huddersfield and I’d say the same. The finances involved are enormous now, Forest spent what? £300m in one year summer to summer.

You’re talking about individual teams, I’m talking about the league as a whole. It’s 3 from 6 or 7 at a push before a ball was kicked. We can have Ballsed it up and it be the hardest it’s ever been, both can be true.

[CoolClaret]

Does everything have to be a **** on Burnley thing? Swap us out with Huddersfield and I’d say the same. The finances involved are enormous now, Forest spent what? £300m in one year summer to summer.

You’re talking about individual teams, I’m talking about the league as a whole. It’s 3 from 6 or 7 at a push before a ball was kicked. We can have Ballsed it up and it be the hardest it’s ever been, both can be true.

Telling the truth isn't shitting on Burnley - it's just facts.

Finances are relative, I'm talking a quality level.

Boro literally went down in 18th or 19th in like 1997 with Juninho and Ravinelli in their side in their primes - two players that were far better than anything that we have.

We're just shite.

[bumba]

Does everything have to be a **** on Burnley thing? Swap us out with Huddersfield and I’d say the same. The finances involved are enormous now, Forest spent what? £300m in one year summer to summer.

You’re talking about individual teams, I’m talking about the league as a whole. It’s 3 from 6 or 7 at a push before a ball was kicked. We can have Ballsed it up and it be the hardest it’s ever been, both can be true.

The other 17 teams will say it's the easiest league it's ever been to stay in. The bottom three have just been that poor, we had a team with momentum capable of competing with a couple of big additions but we went full rebuild and messed up

[Goliath]

The other 17 teams will say it's the easiest league it's ever been to stay in. The bottom three have just been that poor, we had a team with momentum capable of competing with a couple of big additions but we went full rebuild and messed up

We really arent THAT bad. Weve thrown away late goals to West Ham, Luton and Villa along with VAR costing us in a couple of those along with the Forest game. Theres been far worse teams than us and Luton in recent seasons. We just lack experience, ruthlessness and a right back.

[Goody1975]

We really arent THAT bad. Weve thrown away late goals to West Ham, Luton and Villa along with VAR costing us in a couple of those along with the Forest game. Theres been far worse teams than us and Luton in recent seasons. We just lack experience, ruthlessness and a right back.

I agree to a large extent but think we need more than just a right back.

IMO the centre of the park is the biggest issue (right back close behind), it's our inability to control games for longer than a few minutes that worries me most. This sees us vulnerable at the back and unable to create enough going forward due to it.

[Westleigh]

As Madonna would say “ We gotta get physical “ team of nice guys.

[Goliath]

I agree to a large extent but think we need more than just a right back.

IMO the centre of the park is the biggest issue (right back close behind), it's our inability to control games for longer than a few minutes that worries me most. This sees us vulnerable at the back and unable to create enough going forward due to it.

I think thats a bigger fix that will have to wait until the Summer. Vk seems to have accepted that we arent good enough to control games so has gone to a different system/style.
We'd probably need 2 or 3 1st team ready players to think about going back to the possession based system whoch is unlikely. Until then we can probably cope with a Berge/Brownhill midfield.

[Vegas Claret]

Telling the truth isn't shitting on Burnley - it's just facts.

Finances are relative, I'm talking a quality level.

Boro literally went down in 18th or 19th in like 1997 with Juninho and Ravinelli in their side in their primes - two players that were far better than anything that we have.

We're just shite.

Quality is impossible to judge across decades, it's complete conjecture. Finances are factual. We've ****** this season - that is undeniable !

[Vegas Claret]

As Madonna would say “ We gotta get physical “ team of nice guys.

It's men against boys every single week, that's the biggest reason Luton are doing better than us. Unless we have a dramatic upturn I expect us to finish bottom

[Vegas Claret]

Finances are relative.

Can you explain what you mean by that ?

[CoolClaret]

Can you explain what you mean by that ?

Mean it in multiple ways really, under no illusion that the fees in the PL are nuts BUT

- The £££ at the top end of the PL table/throughout the PL has always been astronomical compared with the spends in the Champ/Division One - I mean heck, Newcastle paid The Horse Fiddlers €21 mill for Shearer back in 1996!

- We/ every other team in this league also get these insane revenue streams. Can hardly say that we don't get enough money to come in and invest in a few players to give it a decent go.

[Vegas Claret]

Mean it in multiple ways really, under no illusion that the fees in the PL are nuts BUT

- The £££ at the top end of the PL table/throughout the PL has always been astronomical compared with the spends in the Champ/Division One - I mean heck, Newcastle paid The Horse Fiddlers €21 mill for Shearer back in 1996!

- We/ every other team in this league also get these insane revenue streams. Can hardly say that we don't get enough money to come in and invest in a few players to give it a decent go.

"Mean it in multiple ways really" - yeah that's why I asked

[Vegas Claret]

The problem with 'insane revenue streams' for promoted teams is wages eat it all up. There is no easy answer nowadays, bring someone in who wants 100K a week and those already here start knocking on the managers door asking for more and that's a quick way to ruin for us.

[Vegas Claret]

the best bit of transfer business in the bottom half of the table was Luton signing Barkley on a rumoured 30K a week - he's the exception though at talent to wages, stunning business by them, fair play to them for taking the risk on him.

[Quicknick]

the best bit of transfer business in the bottom half of the table was Luton signing Barkley on a rumoured 30K a week - he's the exception though at talent to wages, stunning business by them, fair play to them for taking the risk on him.

Agreed. It's who we should have got.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Mean it in multiple ways really, under no illusion that the fees in the PL are nuts BUT

- The £££ at the top end of the PL table/throughout the PL has always been astronomical compared with the spends in the Champ/Division One - I mean heck, Newcastle paid The Horse Fiddlers €21 mill for Shearer back in 1996!

- We/ every other team in this league also get these insane revenue streams. Can hardly say that we don't get enough money to come in and invest in a few players to give it a decent go.

That’s the third time in your last 4 or 5 posts that you’ve quoted 1996.

Stats / views from 28 years ago are a bit outdated

[Darthlaw]

I’m more surprised that one English club paid another English club in euros, three years before they were introduced.

[burnmark]

Michael Mellon to become the third loanee to Dundee.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I’m more surprised that one English club paid another English club in euros, three years before they were introduced.

Newcastle have always been ahead of their time.

[NewClaret]

Michael Mellon to become the third loanee to Dundee.

Seems that story about a talent share agreement with Dundee are true then.

Might be a good move for a goalscorer as they’re top of the Scottish Championship so should get a decent number of chances.

[jedi_master]

Seems that story about a talent share agreement with Dundee are true then.

Might be a good move for a goalscorer as they’re top of the Scottish Championship so should get a decent number of chances.

That’s Dundee United, Dundee are mid table in the SPL. Good move for Mellon as you’d think the SPL is a significant step up from League Two.

[Swizzlestick]

Seems that story about a talent share agreement with Dundee are true then.

Might be a good move for a goalscorer as they’re top of the Scottish Championship so should get a decent number of chances.

Dundee United top of the Championship, Dundee are mid table Premiership.

EDIT - sorry just seen post above. Post delayed due to that stupid ‘spamhaus’ thing.

[NewClaret]

Dundee United top of the Championship, Dundee are mid table Premiership.

EDIT - sorry just seen post above. Post delayed due to that stupid ‘spamhaus’ thing.

Ah right, mixing up my Dundee’s!

SPL is even better experience for these lads then. Would imagine that’s around Championship standard?

[Ampth7]

We really arent THAT bad. Weve thrown away late goals to West Ham, Luton and Villa along with VAR costing us in a couple of those along with the Forest game. Theres been far worse teams than us and Luton in recent seasons. We just lack experience, ruthlessness and a right back.

The league table doesn’t lie, we are that bad. For those who say, stop being so negative and stop whinging; I take no pride in saying it, it’s just the truth as far as I can see it. I’m not one to pretend things are okay when clearly right now they are not, that’s just kidding yourself.

The main thing now is that lessons need to be learned moving forwards, especially for next season when we will be trying to win back promotion. It can’t all be about buying young players in the hope of flipping them for a huge profit, so I hope we do buy sensibly in the summer. With that in mind, we have plenty of reasons to be optimistic moving forwards, but let’s not pretend we’re good enough in this league right now.

[Boss Hogg]

The other 17 teams will say it's the easiest league it's ever been to stay in. The bottom three have just been that poor, we had a team with momentum capable of competing with a couple of big additions but we went full rebuild and messed up

This. Think the bottom half isn’t that great this year. The bottom two are just mikes off it.

[Quickenthetempo]

Mean it in multiple ways really, under no illusion that the fees in the PL are nuts BUT

- The £££ at the top end of the PL table/throughout the PL has always been astronomical compared with the spends in the Champ/Division One - I mean heck, Newcastle paid The Horse Fiddlers €21 mill for Shearer back in 1996!

- We/ every other team in this league also get these insane revenue streams. Can hardly say that we don't get enough money to come in and invest in a few players to give it a decent go.

Shearer was 15m pounds to Newcastle.
Rovers signed him for £3.6m from Southampton 3/4 years earlier.

[CoolClaret]

Shearer was 15m pounds to Newcastle.
Rovers signed him for £3.6m from Southampton 3/4 years earlier.

Aye, exactly.

My post wasn't meant to be about bits of semantics, more highlighting the fact that for a long time in the top flight there's been big transfer fees and wages that dwarfed the rest of English footy.

I'm sure that there's some data out there on the trends / relative spends - my premise is that it hasn't just magically morphed into 'the hardest PL ever', during the season in which we happen to be stinking it out.

[bumba]

We really arent THAT bad. Weve thrown away late goals to West Ham, Luton and Villa along with VAR costing us in a couple of those along with the Forest game. Theres been far worse teams than us and Luton in recent seasons. We just lack experience, ruthlessness and a right back.

The table and performances say otherwise I'm afraid. Throwing away late goals are signs of a poor team, lacking the things you say are signs of a poor team when you add all the little bits together you create a poor team.
We need to stop making excuses, the summer recruitment was woeful and it's shown. Even if it 'clicked' now it's probably be too late, the summer will see another big rebuild

[Goliath]

The debate was about the league being better than it has ever been which i agree with, so no the league table doesnt lie but its holding us to a higher standard than ever before.

[NewClaret]

The league table doesn’t lie, we are that bad. For those who say, stop being so negative and stop whinging; I take no pride in saying it, it’s just the truth as far as I can see it. I’m not one to pretend things are okay when clearly right now they are not, that’s just kidding yourself.

The main thing now is that lessons need to be learned moving forwards, especially for next season when we will be trying to win back promotion. It can’t all be about buying young players in the hope of flipping them for a huge profit, so I hope we do buy sensibly in the summer. With that in mind, we have plenty of reasons to be optimistic moving forwards, but let’s not pretend we’re good enough in this league right now.

It depends on your perspective, we are that bad if you’re comparing us to the other established Prem sides, yes.

We’re 19th best team in the country with a squad stronger than all the teams in the league below, so as you say we’re in a pretty good position on the whole. We’re in an envious position to fans of any club outside the Prem which is why I find posts on here lacking balance sometimes.

I’d add that I think we’ve been pretty unlucky this season. The fixtures fell unkindly, I thought, VAR decisions (or lack of) have been particularly poor, we’ve also suffered injuries to key players like Foster, Koleosho and Beyer, and just generally not had anything go for us. Thats no excuse, you make your own luck, but I agree with Goliath’s post that we’re not a terrible team - just an inexperienced one.

I also agree that we need to learn from our mistakes and make sure we add more experience, but it’s also fair to say those players are in high demand and are often very expensive/after big final contracts so finding and affording them is not as easy as it is to type.

[Stayingup]

We’ve wandered off the Transfer Windows Rumours a bit ,however the thing we need most is Characters ,and Character ,Mee Tarks and Wood have it in spades .

Thats right. This team needs an identity with character.

[NewClaret]

The table and performances say otherwise I'm afraid. Throwing away late goals are signs of a poor team, lacking the things you say are signs of a poor team when you add all the little bits together you create a poor team.
We need to stop making excuses, the summer recruitment was woeful and it's shown. Even if it 'clicked' now it's probably be too late, the summer will see another big rebuild

In very much doubt the summer will see a rebuild to anywhere near the same degree as the previous two summers.

[Big Vinny K]

Aye, exactly.

My post wasn't meant to be about bits of semantics, more highlighting the fact that for a long time in the top flight there's been big transfer fees and wages that dwarfed the rest of English footy.

I'm sure that there's some data out there on the trends / relative spends - my premise is that it hasn't just magically morphed into 'the hardest PL ever', during the season in which we happen to be stinking it out.

Funny those semantics always seem to show you exaggerating numbers though isn’t it ?

Nevertheless not really sure what point you are trying to make by quoting a fee from many years ago. You are asking another poster whether he is “numb” but your point is far from clear or accurate.

Blackburn paying £15m for Shearer just illustrates a point that has been there for 50 years or longer - some clubs are just richer than others and buy up the best players. It was just the same when the first £50,000 signing was made or Trevor Francis at a million etc

But it’s about strength in depth in the league that has changed. There is no league in the world where so many clubs spend so much money and what the statistics definitely do show you is that year on year this is increasing - so yes that will mean the overall league is getting stronger and stronger because more of the better players across the world are joining the league (and no that does not mean all the best players are in the PL).

Relative spend has got nothing to do with what people are saying - it’s strength in depth. When Blackburn were spending how many other teams in the league were matching their spend ? We now have most of the bottom half of the league spending £100m plus in one transfer window and a team in 9th place (and who did crap last year too) spending a billion pounds in a couple of years. There’s nothing “relative” about that at all.

Whether this is the hardest division or not this season I have no particular view or opinion…but it’s certainly one of them…just like last year was too.

[NewClaret]

Thats right. This team needs an identity with character.

Not so sure about Wood having character (always felt he was a very quiet guy on the pitch) but Mee is now on £3m, Wood on £4m and Tarks on £5m.

I agree about character but it does cost…

[Westleigh]

Not so sure about Wood having character (always felt he was a very quiet guy on the pitch) but Mee is now on £3m, Wood on £4m and Tarks on £5m.

I agree about character but it does cost…

One thing that amazed me about Chris Wood yesterday was that you could actually see him looking round to make sure he was onside,talk about you can’t teach old dogs new tricks .

[NewClaret]

One thing that amazed me about Chris Wood yesterday was that you could actually see him looking round to make sure he was onside,talk about you can’t teach old dogs new tricks .

You’re kidding?

Give that coach a medal.

[Ampth7]

It depends on your perspective, we are that bad if you’re comparing us to the other established Prem sides, yes.

We’re 19th best team in the country with a squad stronger than all the teams in the league below, so as you say we’re in a pretty good position on the whole. We’re in an envious position to fans of any club outside the Prem which is why I find posts on here lacking balance sometimes.

I’d add that I think we’ve been pretty unlucky this season. The fixtures fell unkindly, I thought, VAR decisions (or lack of) have been particularly poor, we’ve also suffered injuries to key players like Foster, Koleosho and Beyer, and just generally not had anything go for us. Thats no excuse, you make your own luck, but I agree with Goliath’s post that we’re not a terrible team - just an inexperienced one.

I also agree that we need to learn from our mistakes and make sure we add more experience, but it’s also fair to say those players are in high demand and are often very expensive/after big final contracts so finding and affording them is not as easy as it is to type.

An excellent post! Agree with everything you say. The one thing that I would add regarding recruitment for next season is that I think we may have to accept that bringing in a few experienced Championship quality players will be needed especially through the spine of the team. Players that excel in other ways but may not have outstanding technical ability ready for the Premier League, because as you say, these types of players are hard to find and cost way more than we can afford. Assuming we keep most of our squad intact, I suspect we should only need to sign a handful of players. Centre mid, right back, left back and up front all stand out as obvious areas requiring additions….?

[bumba]

In very much doubt the summer will see a rebuild to anywhere near the same degree as the previous two summers.

Looks like it's already started, Benson, Churlinov, Roberts and Obafemi all linked with moves away.
Any player that we receive offers for in the summer will be sold if we make a profit, several players won't want to play in the championship again so any premier league offer and they'll want out.
It's not as easy as saying keep the squad together we could suddenly be looking at 7-10 players that need replacing which is another big rebuild.

[BurnleyFC]

Funny those semantics always seem to show you exaggerating numbers though isn’t it ?

Nevertheless not really sure what point you are trying to make by quoting a fee from many years ago. You are asking another poster whether he is “numb” but your point is far from clear or accurate.

Blackburn paying £15m for Shearer just illustrates a point that has been there for 50 years or longer - some clubs are just richer than others and buy up the best players. It was just the same when the first £50,000 signing was made or Trevor Francis at a million etc

But it’s about strength in depth in the league that has changed. There is no league in the world where so many clubs spend so much money and what the statistics definitely do show you is that year on year this is increasing - so yes that will mean the overall league is getting stronger and stronger because more of the better players across the world are joining the league (and no that does not mean all the best players are in the PL).

Relative spend has got nothing to do with what people are saying - it’s strength in depth. When Blackburn were spending how many other teams in the league were matching their spend ? We now have most of the bottom half of the league spending £100m plus in one transfer window and a team in 9th place (and who did crap last year too) spending a billion pounds in a couple of years. There’s nothing “relative” about that at all.

Whether this is the hardest division or not this season I have no particular view or opinion…but it’s certainly one of them…just like last year was too.

Bastards didn’t pay £15m for Shearer - that’s what they sold him to Newcastle for. They paid an at-the-time record £3.6m for him.

[Big Vinny K]

Bastards didn’t pay £15m for Shearer - that’s what they sold him to Newcastle for. They paid an at-the-time record £3.6m for him.

Yes sorry - but £3.6m blackburn paid or the £15m Newcastle paid it’s the same point that there are a lot more clubs spending a lot more money than there was back then.
And the other main point is of course when blackburn and Newcastle were paying these fees for Shearer the PL was not the strongest league in Europe in terms - nowhere near in terms of spend and international players etc. Now it’s not even a debate as to which league in the world is the strongest

[jrgbfc]

Looks like it's already started, Benson, Churlinov, Roberts and Obafemi all linked with moves away.
Any player that we receive offers for in the summer will be sold if we make a profit, several players won't want to play in the championship again so any premier league offer and they'll want out.
It's not as easy as saying keep the squad together we could suddenly be looking at 7-10 players that need replacing which is another big rebuild.

Obafemi was another bizarre signing. We had a pretty good idea last January we were going to get promoted, yet we tied ourselves into a permanent deal when he'd never shown anything to suggest he'd be good enough for the Prem.

[NewClaret]

Looks like it's already started, Benson, Churlinov, Roberts and Obafemi all linked with moves away.
Any player that we receive offers for in the summer will be sold if we make a profit, several players won't want to play in the championship again so any premier league offer and they'll want out.
It's not as easy as saying keep the squad together we could suddenly be looking at 7-10 players that need replacing which is another big rebuild.

The ones that go without loan options will unlikely leave in my opinion. So of that list maybe Churlinov and Roberts I’d agree. The others it’ll depend on how well they do on loan, if they go on loan, but it’ll be on our terms.

You don’t know any better than I do if any player we receive an offer for will be sold. Obviously you’d expect some movement if big offers come in (I think they will) but we won’t be seeing 15 players come in like we did last summer or the one prior. It’ll be nothing like that turnover.