Who stays who goes ?

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leelad
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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by leelad » Sat May 04, 2024 11:17 pm

From the Dyche era, I would keep JBG. The rest of them will be going - Weghorst will go somewhere else on loan ;-)

From last season, Kompany has some work to do to extend an olive branch out to Zaroury and Muric and get them focused on the job of getting us back up at the first attempt. Benson didn't get a look in today and appearances have been limited of late, so I can't see him wanting to hang around. I think Beyer is on his way if reports are to be believed. Foster, Vitinho, Cullen, Al-Dakhil, Ekdal all to stay. The rest (Twine, McNally, Bastien, Obafemi, CJ Egan Riley) will either go out on loan again or leave.

From this season, I'd like Trafford to go out on loan somewhere, or sell if we can recoup the money spent. Vigoroux, O'Shea, Esteve, Redmond, Berge (a big if), Ramsey, Koleosho, Massengo, JBL, Delcroix (need to work out his best position), Odobert (a big if) to stay. As for the remaining players, Assignon & Fofana will leave, I can't see Amdouni wanting to play Championship football, Tresor can go for me.

So we are looking at a squad of around 20 to retain, this needs beefing up with proven Championship experience (characters for the dressing room spirit and to get us through tight games and close them out) and if we can, one or two fringe players from teams in the lower half of Prem.

We have still not solved our left back problem and also we need to review our attacking options as well.

Over to you Vincent.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Enola Gay » Sat May 04, 2024 11:22 pm

After years of late-Dyche stagnation, last season’s team got me excited again.

Maybe Berge aside I wouldn’t be too bothered if this season’s team disappeared en masse.
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CrosspoolClarets
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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat May 04, 2024 11:33 pm

Some crazed comments on this thread. saying we have spent more than sides like Everton doesn’t warrant reply, then the Beyer thing, we hear the rumours of a bust up over his so called rushed return, but when he got nobbled it was on game 8 of his return, so I don’t see how he could feel he was rushed back,

Anyway, who to keep is redundant because it all depends on price. Odobert, Berge and Trafford may be snapped up, but at what price? Who has relegation clauses a la Wout? Who WANTS to go?

Ultimately though I think we have a very good side left after outgoings and maybe one better than last time, I’m not concerned.

Ric_C
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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Ric_C » Sun May 05, 2024 12:38 am

warksclaret wrote:
Sat May 04, 2024 8:33 pm
TO GO

Trafford -Liverpool apparently want him
Taylor-clearly not rated by VK
JBG-desperately past it
Brownhill-sell now that he has a years extension
How do you work that out? I'd be keeping JBG for another year, ss he is superb in the championship, and has been our best player recently. Criminally underused this season

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Ric_C » Sun May 05, 2024 12:57 am

Must keep at all costs:
Berge - Will dominate the championship
Cullen- The glue that holds everything together
Esteve - Will be our leader at the back next season.
Muric - Big factor in the way we play

Keep:
O’Shea
JBG (give another 1 year deal)
Ekdal - Really like him
Odobert - If we get s good offer in for him I think we should take it. Still raw, but only young.
Vitinho - Useful squad player
Vigouroux - Not seen him but could be an ok backup?
Al-Dakhil - Still young, lot of time to develop
Koleosho - Hopefully ok from his injury, could be lethal in the championship
Massengo - Like to see him given a go

Sell or loan out:
Trafford - If we get a decent offer, then sell
Roberts - Could be an option still, but has he burnt his bridges?
Brownhill (take up the option and sell for 8 million to Wolves)
Beyer (I like him, but way too injury prone)
Amdouni - Think the lad needs to go back to a league where he can swan about and do a few nutmegs
Delcroix - Not good enough
McNally
Bastien
Churlinov
Dodgson
Obafemi
Costelloe
Egan-Riley
Twine
Weghorst
Redmond

OOC / release:
Taylor -think his time is done
Cork - as above
Rodriguez - as above
Assignon (if we could strike a deal then great, but maybe out of our price range now)
Fofana -bye bye

Seriously on the fence (could go either way):
Tresor - Not seen enough of him yet. Not sure of attitude or skill-set.
Ramsey - Is a good player? Only young. Been dire so far, chance to shine next season?
JBL - Has quality, if cheap maybe give him a deal? Not sure
Agyei - Not seen enough of him
Benson - Love Benny, would be a useful weapon in the championship, but is he ready to stay? Does Kompany trust him?
Foster - Just not sure about him really. We can’t really be carrying players who have massive swings in form.
Zaroury - Seems to be going backwards

Big big rebuilding job needed once again next season. Worst case scenario is we sell our spine and keep a load of the dross on high wages. VK needs to earn his corn in the summer and build a few bridges.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Sun May 05, 2024 1:05 am

The player list goes to show how a/ idiotic the recruitment has been and b/ how idiotic they've been utilised in general

That's on firstly the manager and then Pace and his crew!

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Cooclaret » Sun May 05, 2024 7:43 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat May 04, 2024 11:06 pm
Why when did Dyche ever need to buy 30 players in 12 months? The answer is never so it’s not comparable.
Because Dyche wasn’t an idiot. He knew squad cohesion was worth sacrificing for.

Dyche was an arrogant manager, still is, but that came with confidence in a system and after time. Kompany is arrogant and a managerial legend in his own mind.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by jojomk1 » Sun May 05, 2024 8:41 am

THEWELLERNUT70 wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 1:05 am
The player list goes to show how a/ idiotic the recruitment has been and b/ how idiotic they've been utilised in general

That's on firstly the manager and then Pace and his crew!
Spot on
30 players still contracted with us next season so can we afford to buy any others
We need at least one RB, two LB and one striker as a minimum
If the better players have to be sold the strength of the squad likewise goes down

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Bfc » Sun May 05, 2024 9:26 am

It’s not only players who should shown the door, the defensive coach should be another. Not for the first time, I looked at him on the touch line, when we’re defending set pieces and his hands were always in his pockets. When he took them out to raise his arm for a few seconds, they went straight back in. Why can’t/won’t Company fill that role, given his vast experience as a defender.
If we do get get relegated, can the Club afford/need to keep the number of non playing staff who trudge across the pitch, before and at half time?.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Bfc » Sun May 05, 2024 9:28 am

It’s not only players who should shown the door, the defensive coach should be another. Not for the first time, I looked at him on the touch line, when we’re defending set pieces and his hands were always in his pockets. When he took them out to raise his arm for a few seconds, they went straight back in. Why can’t/won’t Company fill that role, given his vast experience as a defender.
If we do get get relegated, can the Club afford/need to keep the number of non playing staff who trudge across the pitch, before and at half time?.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by claretspice » Sun May 05, 2024 9:56 am

Poulton-le-Claret wrote:
Sat May 04, 2024 11:05 pm
That is where I really doubt him - fitness. Feels like he has been struggling with injuries already so much in his early career that he is/was a massive gamble. I think he could be a decent player, just can we rely on him to stay fit.

In all honesty I fully expect him to be here next season, so I am hoping he can step up.
Not sure it is fair or rational to blame him for a really unfortunate, nasty ankle injury caused by a tackle from behind that ended his season just as he was getting a run of games. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Potentially, we start next season with something like:
Muric OR Trafford, Vigoroux
Vitinho, Shambo, OShea, Esteve, Ekdal, Al Dakhil Delcroix, AN Other left back
Cullen Massengo Ramsey AN Other midfielder (possibly 2)
Koleosho, Amdouni, Zaroury, Redmond, Benson, Gudmundsson
Foster, Obafemi, AN Other, Mellon.

Thats a good base provided that some of the AN Others add the physicality that Maatsen and Tella added last time, and some of them add the know and leadership/character that Barnes and Cork in particular added last time round. But that can be done and the likes of OShea, Cullen, Redmond and JBG, and possibly Esteve, provide a start on that front.

I've more doubts about the backroom team. If Kompany wants to be a top coach, he needs more challenge about him, a little more humility about what works and what doesn't, and he needs to be ruthless with those about him who arent pulling their weight.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Poulton-le-Claret » Sun May 05, 2024 10:29 am

claretspice wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 9:56 am
Not sure it is fair or rational to blame him for a really unfortunate, nasty ankle injury caused by a tackle from behind that ended his season just as he was getting a run of games. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Potentially, we start next season with something like:
Muric OR Trafford, Vigoroux
Vitinho, Shambo, OShea, Esteve, Ekdal, Al Dakhil Delcroix, AN Other left back
Cullen Massengo Ramsey AN Other midfielder (possibly 2)
Koleosho, Amdouni, Zaroury, Redmond, Benson, Gudmundsson
Foster, Obafemi, AN Other, Mellon.

Thats a good base provided that some of the AN Others add the physicality that Maatsen and Tella added last time, and some of them add the know and leadership/character that Barnes and Cork in particular added last time round. But that can be done and the likes of OShea, Cullen, Redmond and JBG, and possibly Esteve, provide a start on that front.

I've more doubts about the backroom team. If Kompany wants to be a top coach, he needs more challenge about him, a little more humility about what works and what doesn't, and he needs to be ruthless with those about him who arent pulling their weight.
Yeah he was unlucky this season, but I think it was noted that he has had quite a patchy injury record before he joined us as well. I think my view is a little tainted as I wasn't impressed watching him play either, he seemed to always be turning into danger and not learning from his mistakes. Like I say though, I seriously doubt we could turn a profit on him now, so he will be here next season and hopefully he does well :D

Agree mostly with the rest of your post as being the likely set up next season and on VK. I am not sure about Benson, Zaroury and Amdouni staying though. Will the first two want to put a shift in for the guy who binned them off last time, and will Amdouni fancy going to places like Swansea and Hull on a Tuesday night? I guess we will find out soon enough!

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Ric_C » Sun May 05, 2024 10:40 am

Been thinking about this since yesterday. From a financial point of view (like last time we went down), the aim would be to trim the squad, and to raise around 50 million in fees, thus giving us the flexibility to make a few purchases / loans for next season.

I'd say the player values will fall into these price brackets.

(All prices are subjective and are based on length of contract, age and potential. I also base thes fees on if we sold them tomorrow, would we be happy to take that fee?)

15 - 20 million players
Berge

10-15 million pound players
Esteve, Muric, Odobert, Koleosho, Trafford, Beyer

5-10 million pound players

Cullen, O’Shea, Ekdal, Roberts, Brownhill, Amdouni

1-5 million pound players
Vitinho, Al-Dakhil, Vigouroux, Massengo, Delcroix, McNally, Obafemi, Twine, Egan-Riley

Small fee players (due to age / contract)
Bastien, Dodgson, Churlinov, Costelloe, Weghorst, Redmond

In an ideal world, we would obviously just get rid of the players who haven't worked out. But it probably won't be that easy.

For example selling Berge, Trafford, Koleosho and Beyer could bring in 50 million in fees. But I'd rather generate the cash by taking a few hits on some, and trimming the squad dramatically.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Ric_C » Sun May 05, 2024 10:46 am

edit* For some reason I can't edit the post

15 - 20 million players
Berge

10-15 million pound players
Esteve, Muric, Odobert, Koleosho, Trafford, Beyer, Tresor

5-10 million pound players

Cullen, O’Shea, Ekdal, Roberts, Brownhill, Amdouni, Benson, Ramsey

1-5 million pound players
Vitinho, Al-Dakhil, Vigouroux, Massengo, Delcroix, McNally, Obafemi, Twine, Egan-Riley, Foster, Zaroury

Small fee players (due to age / contract)
Bastien, Dodgson, Churlinov, Costelloe, Weghorst, Redmond, Agyei

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by claretspice » Sun May 05, 2024 10:48 am

Poulton-le-Claret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 10:29 am
Yeah he was unlucky this season, but I think it was noted that he has had quite a patchy injury record before he joined us as well. I think my view is a little tainted as I wasn't impressed watching him play either, he seemed to always be turning into danger and not learning from his mistakes. Like I say though, I seriously doubt we could turn a profit on him now, so he will be here next season and hopefully he does well :D
I think on both those points, the riposte is he only turned 21 a matter of weeks ago. He's looked this season like a talented kid who isn't quite ready for Prem ier League yet and who would benefit from another season in the Championship, which is what we are likely to offer him. And given his age, he hardly had the sort of track record to suggest whether or not he's made of glass. Plenty of players have an injury or two when they step up to a more physically demanding and intense level of football whilst their body is still conditioning.

As for Zaroury and Benson, that depends how Kompany has managed their expectations. It wouldn't be a surprise to see one of those two, more likely Benson given age, move on. On Amdouni he's had a very disappointing season and will need to show more off the ball to make it but I suspect his best road to redemption may well be to tear the Championship up with us next season in a team with the superiority to accommodate him in that 10 position. I suspect we will need to sell one of him and Odobert and you'd expect Odobert to be the one we can more immediately sell without taking a big hit.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by daveisaclaret » Sun May 05, 2024 10:50 am

Seems like a lot of Burnley fans will spend the summer imagining expensive transfers for players no club with money will want to sign.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Ric_C » Sun May 05, 2024 11:04 am

daveisaclaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 10:50 am
Seems like a lot of Burnley fans will spend the summer imagining expensive transfers for players no club with money will want to sign.
Seem to remember these comments last time we went down. "Who is going to buy McNeil for over 15 million? He's had such a poor season etc"

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by daveisaclaret » Sun May 05, 2024 12:03 pm

Ric_C wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 11:04 am
Seem to remember these comments last time we went down. "Who is going to buy McNeil for over 15 million? He's had such a poor season etc"
You might remember them but not from me. There's no Dwight McNeil in this team.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by gandhisflipflop » Sun May 05, 2024 12:06 pm

Need a summer off before I can even think about this. Still fuming after yesterday

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Spijed » Sun May 05, 2024 12:11 pm

I suppose the £28 million debt will be the key driver in who stays and who goes, nothing else.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by LincsWoldsClaret » Sun May 05, 2024 12:17 pm

Koleosho deal done, family came last week to sort it out - according to bloke who sits next to me.
Probably right to a degree - he’ll have better options elsewhere

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Clive 1960 » Sun May 05, 2024 12:19 pm

These are the players i don't think will be here , Cork, Jay, Benson, Berg, and obviously a few others if we get good offers..

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Murger » Sun May 05, 2024 12:24 pm

At this very moment in time, they can all go for me. I’m pig sick of this season.
And I’m not sure I’d trust the manager to bring in the experienced heads needed for the Championship. It’s like he enjoys being surrounded by yes men.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by gandhisflipflop » Sun May 05, 2024 12:51 pm

LincsWoldsClaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 12:17 pm
Koleosho deal done, family came last week to sort it out - according to bloke who sits next to me.
Probably right to a degree - he’ll have better options elsewhere
What deal?

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 05, 2024 2:27 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 7:43 am
Because Dyche wasn’t an idiot. He knew squad cohesion was worth sacrificing for.

Dyche was an arrogant manager, still is, but that came with confidence in a system and after time. Kompany is arrogant and a managerial legend in his own mind.
Squad cohesion, how do you get that when you walk into a job with 5 players signed up for the following season?

Confidence in a system after time? Mate you were calling for VK out, 3 games after he won a league title with 100+ points, you don’t know what time is :lol:
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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Sun May 05, 2024 2:32 pm

Spijed wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 12:11 pm
I suppose the £28 million debt will be the key driver in who stays and who goes, nothing else.
The 28m loss was for season 22-23 we have absolutely no idea what our current financials look like

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Sun May 05, 2024 2:34 pm

LincsWoldsClaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 12:17 pm
Koleosho deal done, family came last week to sort it out - according to bloke who sits next to me.
Probably right to a degree - he’ll have better options elsewhere
Koleosho done deal to were? Brave for any club to take a chance on a player coming back from a knee injury

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by warksclaret » Sun May 05, 2024 3:42 pm

We need to rediscover the art of selling players and getting reasonable prices for them-something that's deserted us since the days of Cotterill. We have currently a massive list of either no hopers (Bastian, Obefemi), well past it (Rodriguez, Cork, JBG, ), players that need moving on (Weghorst, Churlinov,Costelloe, Peacock Farrell), guys that will never make it (Twine, McNally,Egan Riley, Al Dakhill) and some that if we have an interested party and the right offer we should sell (Beyer, Koleosho, Zarourry, Trafford, Roberts), then there are players VK does not rate (Taylor, Benson).

Our two best buys this season were both from the Championship-Berge, O Shea, we should keep both at all costs.Personally I think too many of the foreign players we have recruited have been a risk and not worked out. I think we have already secured a right back. I think money will be tight and we need to re-exploit the loans market again, which Ipswich did so well this year.Gomez on loan (he hardly featured this year and VK knows him) would make a good LB.We have a good relationship with Chelsea who have an abundance of good youngsters who will not make the first team squad. Jacob Greaves is one of the top centre halves in the Championship, and would be an investment, and will be sought after, he could partner O Shea and with Esteve you have three great centre halves competing for the shirt. The re-build has to have an eye to returning to the PL. Yesterday the only survivors from last season were Muric, Brownhill and Foster

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Guller Bull » Sun May 05, 2024 4:32 pm

Does we not have an option to extend BPF's contract. I mean we probably wont but could we?

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sun May 05, 2024 5:41 pm

Koleosho should definitely be kept especially if VK decides to cash in on Zaroury.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Sun May 05, 2024 5:48 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 2:32 pm
The 28m loss was for season 22-23 we have absolutely no idea what our current financials look like
True but we know that over £40 million of last summers spend was not in 22-23 accounts.

And we know we added 17 or 18 PL contracts to a £50 million wage bill.

We won't have made a loss that is for sure but neither are we likely to have generated the kind of profit Dyche did when we went up with a Championship squad (in terms of contracts) and a much smaller summer transfer spend.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun May 05, 2024 6:00 pm

LincsWoldsClaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 12:17 pm
Koleosho deal done, family came last week to sort it out - according to bloke who sits next to me.
Probably right to a degree - he’ll have better options elsewhere
you sit next to Alan Pace ?

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by warksclaret » Sun May 05, 2024 6:16 pm

The dealings during the Summer in terms of incomings and outgoings might provide more fun and entertainment than we have witnessed in the 35 games to date

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Fretters » Sun May 05, 2024 6:18 pm

We absolutely need to retain Redmond and JBG for their experience. Also, I'm not sure some folk realise just how good Ramsey was in the Championship. I think we need this squad:

GKs:

Muric
Vigouroux

Right backs:

New lad from PSG (forget his name)
Vitinho

Left backs:

New
New

CB:

O'shea
Ekdal
Esteve
Al Dakhil

RW:

Benson
JBL
Redmond

LW:
Zaroury
Koleosho
Odobert

DCM:

Cullen
Berge
Massengo

ACM:

Ramsey
Brownhill
JBG

CF:

Foster
Amdouni
New
New

Sell / release:

Trafford
McNally
Cork
Taylor
Delcroix
Beyer
Assingnon
Twine
Jay
Tresor
Fofana



If we can fill those LB and CF slots well then we'll be fine.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by AlargeClaret » Sun May 05, 2024 6:29 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 2:27 pm
Squad cohesion, how do you get that when you walk into a job with 5 players signed up for the following season?

Confidence in a system after time? Mate you were calling for VK out, 3 games after he won a league title with 100+ points, you don’t know what time is :lol:
It’s worth noting that even the most giddy VK fan boy would surely concur his season has been a disgrace from start to finish. Including huge squad recruitment, budget ,team selection , tactics and individuals.

Re: squad cohesion , VK chose the players, loans , starting XI etc It’s felt like a bizarre vanity project, where the only criteria is youth and speed , which in turn has led to a rag tag rabble of talented yet out of depth/position players with almost no direction or cohesion .

VK has always impressed me as a person, a world class sportsman , a scholar and a very intelligent guy, but as a manager …

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 05, 2024 7:36 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 6:29 pm
It’s worth noting that even the most giddy VK fan boy would surely concur his season has been a disgrace from start to finish. Including huge squad recruitment, budget ,team selection , tactics and individuals.

Re: squad cohesion , VK chose the players, loans , starting XI etc It’s felt like a bizarre vanity project, where the only criteria is youth and speed , which in turn has led to a rag tag rabble of talented yet out of depth/position players with almost no direction or cohesion .

VK has always impressed me as a person, a world class sportsman , a scholar and a very intelligent guy, but as a manager …
Last season he walked into a mess and bought an entirely new squad and won the title. Mistakes have been made this season, we needed a real number 1 GK for me and with hindsight a goalscorer.

But it’s easy to play hindsight Henry, we were going in blind, nobody knew how last seasons squad would fare in the league above given non of them had played there and the ones that had were part of an awful relegation the last time they did.

I think VK has shown with his January recruitment and the team producing better performances that he’s learning, it’s easy to forget how young and inexperienced he is.

Signings like Ramsey might look like poor ones now but we’ve got a really talented young kid on our hands, locked into a long contract. His season has been stop start but long term if the fans understand that patience is needed, I think he’ll be a very very good player for us.

Dyche was relegated in his first PL season, we bounced back stronger and I absolutely back VK long term to take this club forward.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 05, 2024 7:45 pm

You might have preferred the club to spend that £11m or so on Ramsey elsewhere but what does £11m get you?

Another Weghorst? or

pays the wages of Lennon, Pieters, Bardsley and Rodriguez for a season?

This is what fans aren’t understanding, whilst Dyche might not have spent on transfer fees, he spent enormous amounts on wages.

If the overall budget is set at £100m, VK is spending less of it on wages and the bigger slice on transfer fees. Dyche is going for the older pro on bigger wages.

Either way the same amount is spent, now which one is preferred? I don’t think either are guaranteed to work.

With Dyche you have very little resale value and a lot of incredibly high earners who aren’t earning that.

With VK you have a bunch of young inexperienced kids who earn less per week but might not progress as hoped. Young players are also prone to mistakes and inconsistency while they learn and develop so the team is likely to take a short term hit on results.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Sun May 05, 2024 8:20 pm

The squad as a whole when all the loan players come back is huge, in theory we should be able to trim the squad down with players who haven’t been with us this season or barely featured without having to take cut price deals for likes of Berge and Odobert to help with finances.

In an ideal would (yes I’m dreaming) if we can generate around 40m for
Trafford
Roberts
McNally
Bastien
Twine
Churlinov
Obafemi
Weghorst
Then you have likes of BPF, taylor , cork and jay who’s contracts are likely to expire

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Sun May 05, 2024 8:41 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 7:45 pm
You might have preferred the club to spend that £11m or so on Ramsey elsewhere but what does £11m get you?

Another Weghorst? or

pays the wages of Lennon, Pieters, Bardsley and Rodriguez for a season?

This is what fans aren’t understanding, whilst Dyche might not have spent on transfer fees, he spent enormous amounts on wages.

If the overall budget is set at £100m, VK is spending less of it on wages and the bigger slice on transfer fees. Dyche is going for the older pro on bigger wages.

Either way the same amount is spent, now which one is preferred? I don’t think either are guaranteed to work.

With Dyche you have very little resale value and a lot of incredibly high earners who aren’t earning that.

With VK you have a bunch of young inexperienced kids who earn less per week but might not progress as hoped. Young players are also prone to mistakes and inconsistency while they learn and develop so the team is likely to take a short term hit on results.
Makes sense but it's hardly true.

We had a £50 million wage bill in the Championship last season and added 18 PL contracts to it.

Many of the players signed this season have been expensive and are likely on expensive contracts.

You could try and argue that the consequence is that VK will eventually have a younger higher quality player than Dyche but not that he is spending the same money in different ways.

I doubt we had a net spend of £80 - £90 in the 7 seasons Dyche spent in the PL.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Carlos the Great » Sun May 05, 2024 8:43 pm

Our best players are more likely to leave and all the ones we want rid of nobody else will want them either

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by ClaretAL » Mon May 06, 2024 11:30 am

claretspice wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 9:56 am


Potentially, we start next season with something like:
Muric OR Trafford, Vigoroux
Vitinho, Shambo, OShea, Esteve, Ekdal, Al Dakhil Delcroix, AN Other left back
Cullen Massengo Ramsey AN Other midfielder (possibly 2)
Koleosho, Amdouni, Zaroury, Redmond, Benson, Gudmundsson
Foster, Obafemi, AN Other, Mellon.

Thats a good base provided that some of the AN Others add the physicality that Maatsen and Tella added last time, and some of them add the know and leadership/character that Barnes and Cork in particular added last time round. But that can be done and the likes of OShea, Cullen, Redmond and JBG, and possibly Esteve, provide a start on that front.

I've more doubts about the backroom team. If Kompany wants to be a top coach, he needs more challenge about him, a little more humility about what works and what doesn't, and he needs to be ruthless with those about him who arent pulling their weight.
Pretty much my thoughts. Has anyone had eyes on Twine while he has been on loan? I did see glimpses of a good player when he was with us, but he never got the run of games to settle and be consistent so just wondered how he had fared while on loan and has he bulked up physically?

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Raconteur » Mon May 06, 2024 11:54 am

Bfc wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 9:28 am
It’s not only players who should shown the door, the defensive coach should be another. Not for the first time, I looked at him on the touch line, when we’re defending set pieces and his hands were always in his pockets. When he took them out to raise his arm for a few seconds, they went straight back in. Why can’t/won’t Company fill that role, given his vast experience as a defender.
Mike Jackson is the defensive coach.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by jrgbfc » Mon May 06, 2024 12:03 pm

ClaretAL wrote:
Mon May 06, 2024 11:30 am
Pretty much my thoughts. Has anyone had eyes on Twine while he has been on loan? I did see glimpses of a good player when he was with us, but he never got the run of games to settle and be consistent so just wondered how he had fared while on loan and has he bulked up physically?
Don't think he's pulled up any trees at Hull or Bristol City, picked up a few injuries as well. I wouldn't mind him being a squad player for us next season though. With doubts about Zaroury and Benson and Redmond and Ramsey having serious injuries we may need him.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Mon May 06, 2024 12:13 pm

Not seen anything in twine that suggests he’s a top 6 championship club player

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by claretspice » Mon May 06, 2024 12:18 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Mon May 06, 2024 12:13 pm
Not seen anything in twine that suggests he’s a top 6 championship club player
My guess is that the likes of Twine and McNally become useful makewights if we are looking to trade in the Championship or add pocket money to help us spend a few quid this summer after the big sales balance the books.

There are some good free transfers available this summer with Championship know how, one or two players with good Championship pedigree frozen out of Premier League teams (eg Rothwell at Bournemouth) and that for me needs to be where we look for at least a couple of the players we need. Championship know how and a bit of experience.

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by thelifeofbrian » Mon May 06, 2024 12:19 pm

don't care who goes as long as we keep the set piece coach. This has to be priority no 1 :D

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by mybloodisclaret » Mon May 06, 2024 12:26 pm

LincsWoldsClaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 12:17 pm
Koleosho deal done, family came last week to sort it out - according to bloke who sits next to me.
Probably right to a degree - he’ll have better options elsewhere
What a vague message. Family came to sort it out? Can only imagine it is an extension? Why would his family come to Burnley to sort a move away out?

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by Ric_C » Mon May 06, 2024 2:07 pm

LincsWoldsClaret wrote:
Sun May 05, 2024 12:17 pm
Koleosho deal done, family came last week to sort it out - according to bloke who sits next to me.
Probably right to a degree - he’ll have better options elsewhere
Can you elaborate on this please? As this sentence could be construed both ways

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by matttheclaret » Mon May 06, 2024 3:05 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2024 8:15 pm
With the writing on the wall who stays and who goes out of this squad? That squad size is unsustainable in the Championship, could easily make a case for about 25% of them to go..

Squad
Trafford
O’Shea
Taylor
Cork
Beyer
JBG
Brownhill
Rodriguez
Benson
Redmond
Berge
Foster
Ekdal
Assignon
Ramsey
Vitinho
Fofana
Cullen
Al-Dakhil
Amdouni
Vigouroux
Koleosho
Tresor
Esteve
JBL
Massengo
Delcroix
Odobert
Agyei
Muric

Out on loan

Egan-Riley
Twine
Weghorst
Roberts
Zaroury
McNally
Bastien
Churlinov
Dodgson
Obafemi
Costelloe
Tricky one but I'll have a stab at it

Trafford - probably try and sell. Wouldn't be surprised if someone offered decent money for him despite an iffy season
O'Shea - keep
Taylor - I'd try and keep if possible. Important we keep some of the experienced players and he's more than capable at that level
Cork - go
Beyer - reluctantly sell. He's someone in the squad we could probably fetch decent money for and it's an area we are well stocked in, plus suffers a lot with injuries and not necessarily first choice anymore
JBG - keep
Brownhill - keep
Rodriguez - go
Benson - keep (but he'll probably go)
Redmond - keep, think he could do a good job for us if he gets fit and is actually given a chance
Berge - keep (probably a big ask though)
Foster - keep
Ekdal - keep
Assignon - go. Like him but we can't afford a £10 million punt on him
Ramsey - keep
Vitinho - keep, one of the few versatile players we have and always maximum effort
Fofana - go
Cullen - keep
Al Dakhil - go. Slightly reluctantly this one, think he's another that we might get reasonable cash for that might not be guaranteed a start
Amdouni - keep. Not been impressed at all this season but slightly intrigued to see what he could do in the Championship
Vigouroux - keep
Koleosho - keep
Tresor - go
Esteve - keep
JBL - go
Massengo - keep
Delcroix - keep (another left footed option at centre back to go with Esteve)
Odobert - go (there needs to be some sales and he arguably would bring the biggest fee in)
Agyei - probably out on loan
Muric - keep

Of the loan players currently away, I'd bring Zaroury back in the squad and try and sell/loan out the rest

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Re: Who stays who goes ?

Post by matttheclaret » Mon May 06, 2024 3:18 pm

matttheclaret wrote:
Mon May 06, 2024 3:05 pm
Tricky one but I'll have a stab at it

Trafford - probably try and sell. Wouldn't be surprised if someone offered decent money for him despite an iffy season
O'Shea - keep
Taylor - I'd try and keep if possible. Important we keep some of the experienced players and he's more than capable at that level
Cork - go
Beyer - reluctantly sell. He's someone in the squad we could probably fetch decent money for and it's an area we are well stocked in, plus suffers a lot with injuries and not necessarily first choice anymore
JBG - keep
Brownhill - keep
Rodriguez - go
Benson - keep (but he'll probably go)
Redmond - keep, think he could do a good job for us if he gets fit and is actually given a chance
Berge - keep (probably a big ask though)
Foster - keep
Ekdal - keep
Assignon - go. Like him but we can't afford a £10 million punt on him
Ramsey - keep
Vitinho - keep, one of the few versatile players we have and always maximum effort
Fofana - go
Cullen - keep
Al Dakhil - go. Slightly reluctantly this one, think he's another that we might get reasonable cash for that might not be guaranteed a start
Amdouni - keep. Not been impressed at all this season but slightly intrigued to see what he could do in the Championship
Vigouroux - keep
Koleosho - keep
Tresor - go
Esteve - keep
JBL - go
Massengo - keep
Delcroix - keep (another left footed option at centre back to go with Esteve)
Odobert - go (there needs to be some sales and he arguably would bring the biggest fee in)
Agyei - probably out on loan
Muric - keep

Of the loan players currently away, I'd bring Zaroury back in the squad and try and sell/loan out the rest
Which would give us a squad of roughly

Muric
Vigouroux

Sambo
Vitinho
O'Shea
Esteve
Ekdal
Delcroix
Taylor

Cullen
Berge
Massengo
Brownhill
Ramsey

Redmond
JBG
Zaroury
Koleosho

Foster
Amdouni

Would need to add a left back, possibly a right back, maybe a midfielder and definitely a striker to that.

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