Our own fault

[DocSavage]

The biggest disappointment is that it was completely our own fault from board to management and playing staff. Poor communication from the club, poor recruitment, poor team selection, poor substitutions, poor on field decision, an unwillingness to to make changes, lack of enthusiasm, a lack of connection to the fans. How can someone who got it so right last season get it so wrong this?

[Neil]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 43506.html

Just been reading this article which suggests it's one of the premier leagues worst ever relegations.

[JohnMac]

How can a newly promoted club fail so badly in a league brimming with WORLD CLASS players having spent the equivalent of one or two WORLD CLASS players?

[CleggHall]

Yes a good article highlighting the many mistakes made in an appalling season but the question is “ has Vincent learnt any lessons?”. The worry is that he probably hasn’t.

[JohnMac]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 43506.html

Just been reading this article which suggests it's one of the premier leagues worst ever relegations.

He probably posts on here as well...

[DocSavage]

How can a newly promoted club fail so badly in a league brimming with WORLD CLASS players having spent the equivalent of one or two WORLD CLASS players?

Agreed but how many points/goals have we just gifted to those world class players without making them work for them

[jlup1980]

Yes a good article highlighting the many mistakes made in an appalling season but the question is “ has Vincent learnt any lessons?”. The worry is that he probably hasn’t.

Going off the number of times we gave the ball away in our defensive third yesterday, I think it's fair to say he hasn't learnt a damn thing.

[wbfc]

The money spent was a lot for Burnley that is all...no full back or striker bought in the summer ...or proper striker anyway i do not count Amdouni as anything more than a beach footballer

not enough height, physicality snd in some of the players effort ...

overall though we are in a slightly better position than the last time we went down providing we did not bust the bank last summer ...

i think we have about 4 players with potential to get better and that includes Trafford ...i have said before we should have signed Kaminski at fraction of the cost ...

for me if we had signed Odobert and Koleosho and then bought height and experience we would have done better but still probably gone down

Dyche showed the way to do it ....he just got too defensive at the end and was never given a budget

if VK wants out ...then i am sure David Moyes would add meat to the bones and make a promotion winning team

if VK stays then he could do it again ...but i would think he will need to use the loan market again ...

it was a bit of a miracle last time we got two players like Matsen and Tella

i

[evensteadiereddie]

He's learned, like the rest of us, that we have a very good young side brimming with potential that aren't yet up to Prem standard.
We lost 30 points from winning positions which is phenomenal.
To get ourselves ahead and then not be able to hold at least, say, half of those show where the weaknesses lie.
A bit more grit in midfield and a more forgiving championship should help us to get back to the PL in a season or two

[bfcjg]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 43506.html

Just been reading this article which suggests it's one of the premier leagues worst ever relegations.

Very damning and spot on. Naive.

[RVclaret]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 43506.html

Just been reading this article which suggests it's one of the premier leagues worst ever relegations.

Richard not so Jolly was doing okay till he mentioned Harwood-Bellis being better than any cb we’ve had this season. Which is basically complete nonsense so I’ve discarded the rest of it.

[taio]

Richard not so Jolly was doing okay till he mentioned Harwood-Bellis being better than any cb we’ve had this season. Which is basically complete nonsense so I’ve discarded the rest of it.

Shouldn't be discarded - it's a good article.

[daveisaclaret]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 43506.html

Just been reading this article which suggests it's one of the premier leagues worst ever relegations.

The points about us forgetting the basics and about VK thinking players take 100 sessions to get up to speed are pretty much unanswerable.

100% our own fault. We did not make a sensible effort to be a Premier League team.

[quoonbeatz]

Isn't he that guy who spends his time tweeting out really shite facts during games?

[randomclaret2]

Yes we've been lousy but being robbed of points at Forest and against Luton have also cost us. Had the goal at Forest not been incorrectly disallowed we'd be playing them to stay up next week.

[RVclaret]

Shouldn't be discarded - it's a good article.

Well he also claims we’ve spent 100m which is inaccurate and claims it’s one of the worst ever PL relegations which is complete tosh.

[RVclaret]

Isn't he that guy who spends his time tweeting out really shite facts during games?

Yes

[taio]

Well he also claims we’ve spent 100m which is inaccurate and claims it’s one of the worst ever PL relegations which is complete tosh.

How much did we spend? Can't have been far off £100m. A substantial amount spent and largely unwisely.

[ClaretPete001]

How much did we spend? Can't have been far off £100m. A substantial amount spent and largely unwisely.

According to most sites it was around £100 million particularly if you add in the wages spent on the 4 loan players.

[RVclaret]

How much did we spend? Can't have been far off £100m. A substantial amount spent and largely unwisely.

Athletic article yesterday quoted £90m. I reckon it will total up even less than that as options/bonuses/clauses due to staying up won’t be triggered. As an example the media claimed Leeds paid £33m for Rutter last January, it came out this season that was £24m as a staying up clause wasn’t met.

Agree on largely being spent unwisely for this season though.

[ClaretPete001]

Athletic article yesterday quoted £90m. I reckon it will total up even less than that as options/bonuses/clauses due to staying up won’t be triggered. As an example the media claimed Leeds paid £33m for Rutter last January, it came out this season that was £24m as a staying up clause wasn’t met.

Agree on largely being spent unwisely for this season though.

It was likely around £100 million. The point is not the exact figure because the figure is never exact but the fact that it is a significant sum.

[taio]

Athletic article yesterday quoted £90m. I reckon it will total up even less than that as options/bonuses/clauses due to staying up won’t be triggered. As an example the media claimed Leeds paid £33m for Rutter last January, it came out this season that was £24m as a staying up clause wasn’t met.

Agree on largely being spent unwisely for this season though.

The difference isn't worth discarding a whole article especially when what we paid is all speculative. His underling point was that we've spent a lot of money and generally not well, which is correct.

[warksclaret]

The facts are there for all to see. The huge questions for me, and many are asking the same. Has VK learned anything from his mistakes ?. What are the players worth today individually versus what we paid. Do we have the internal staff and skills to command reasonable fees for those that have been big disappointments and clearly not in our plans (infact some might reject or have clauses re playing in the Championship). Its going to be an interesting 3-4 months

[zippybid]

Yes a good article highlighting the many mistakes made in an appalling season but the question is “ has Vincent learnt any lessons?”. The worry is that he probably hasn’t.

My worry is about the number of worriers on here. Absolutely chockablock. Probably hasn't is probably more likely to be probably has.

[Cooclaret]

My worry is about the number of worriers on here. Absolutely chockablock. Probably hasn't is probably more likely to be probably has.

My worry is which previous poster you were and why the new user name?

[mdd2]

Well not much inaccurate about that report and its conclusions.

[RVclaret]

The difference isn't worth discarding a whole article especially when what we paid is all speculative. His underling point was that we've spent a lot of money and generally not well, which is correct.

Get what you are saying but I just can never really get on board with someone sensationalising things and suggesting THB (part of a Southampton defence that’s conceded 63 goals in the much inferior Championship) is better than any defender we’ve got is puzzling to say the least.

[DCWat]

How can a newly promoted club fail so badly in a league brimming with WORLD CLASS players having spent the equivalent of one or two WORLD CLASS players?

If that’s your take on the content of the article, it’s pretty pointless us even being in the Premier League.

That’s a massive cop out though, not only ignoring the valid points that have also been asked on here, throughout the course of the season, but perhaps more pertinently, ignores how achievable it was for years under Dyche. We’ve thrown out the baby, the water and the bath.

Yes, it’s a tough league with lots of top players and clubs with deep pockets. It is though a much tougher league when you make as many mistakes as we have - on the pitch and since last summer, off the pitch.

The board and management team need to take a long hard look at themselves if we are to turn this around over the next season and more.

[Sproggy]

Yes we've been lousy but being robbed of points at Forest and against Luton have also cost us. Had the goal at Forest not been incorrectly disallowed we'd be playing them to stay up next week.

We're 2 appalling decisions away from a home game to stay in the league. Maybe we're not as far off it as some seem to wish we were.

[Neil]

Get what you are saying but I just can never really get on board with someone sensationalising things and suggesting THB (part of a Southampton defence that’s conceded 63 goals in the much inferior Championship) is better than any defender we’ve got is puzzling to say the least.

I don't think it's sensationalised.

He said it's one of the premier leagues worst relegations "in it's own way" meaning we had all the tools in place to make a better fist of it than a Derby or Sunderland for example or this seasons Sheff utd and Luton.

We had the manager (seemingly) the momentum gained from over a hundred points and the biggest transfer kitty the club has ever seen, regardless of what the actual figure is.

As for his suggestion that THB is better than any centre half at the club, it's a subjective opinion.
Based on last season I suspect most would have preferred him to O'shea to start the premier league campaign.

[Ric_C]

This bit stands out for me, and something I've been scratching my head over all season:

"Kompany thought it took 120 training sessions and 100 meetings for players to understand his football; it raises the question of why there were so many signings and some of the stalwarts of his promotion-winning side were marginalised."

[Dyched]

How can a newly promoted club fail so badly in a league brimming with WORLD CLASS players having spent the equivalent of one or two WORLD CLASS players?

Luton, Everton, Brentford, Wolves, Forest, Sheff Utd, Bournemouth, Palace etc, don’t have WORLD CLASS players. There’s up to 48 points available from those teams alone. We don’t even need to compete with WORLD CLASS players.

[Newcastleclaret93]

How can a newly promoted club fail so badly in a league brimming with WORLD CLASS players having spent the equivalent of one or two WORLD CLASS players?

Aren’t we the first team in history to be promoted with over 100 points and get less than 40 points in the prem?

I know we are first time to be relegated after achieving promotion on 100 points but the extent in which we have failed is nothing short of an embarrassment.

Some fans will do whatever they can to deflect but that article is good and hits some home truths

[taio]

Get what you are saying but I just can never really get on board with someone sensationalising things and suggesting THB (part of a Southampton defence that’s conceded 63 goals in the much inferior Championship) is better than any defender we’ve got is puzzling to say the least.

THB was part of a Championship side that conceded just 35 goals the season before. I think we should've signed him. It's hardly outlandish for someone to have the opinion he'd have been our best defender.

[alwaysaclaret]

For those who have watched the highlights on motd, and then further highlights of times throughout the season and Alan shearer and micah Richards comments they've summed up perfectly why the season has gone so badly, it was there for everyone to see. I've been a big advocate of muric for instance, and still believe him to be a better keeper than Trafford, but after yesterday's showing is clearly not the answer, however I can't lay all the blame on the player's, blame has to lay at vk's door because he's asking players to play the system he wants which some are clearly not capable of. Although for a club like us it could be said we've spent big, but in a nutshell £100m is a drop in the ocean compared to the £70m spent on Alexander isak for instance. So unless we find a billionaire that will put in to the club kompany has to realise we have to play a system etc that suits our strengths.

[Newcastleclaret93]

For those who have watched the highlights on motd, and then further highlights of times throughout the season and Alan shearer and micah Richards comments they've summed up perfectly why the season has gone so badly, it was there for everyone to see. I've been a big advocate of muric for instance, and still believe him to be a better keeper than Trafford, but after yesterday's showing is clearly not the answer, however I can't lay all the blame on the player's, blame has to lay at vk's door because he's asking players to play the system he wants which some are clearly not capable of. Although for a club like us it could be said we've spent big, but in a nutshell £100m is a drop in the ocean compared to the £70m spent on Alexander isak for instance. So unless we find a billionaire that will put in to the club kompany has to realise we have to play a system etc that suits our strengths.

Can we stop pretending like we haven’t spent?

We were top spenders in the championship and then the season after we were in the top ten spenders in Europe.

People are making out like we are playing with pennys. The club just spent poorly prioritised the wrong positions

[Spijed]

Unfortunately, trying to play like Man City has never worked for any club at the bottom, nor will it ever work.

Complete madness to think it can succeed.

[RVclaret]

THB was part of a Championship side that conceded just 35 goals the season before. I think we should've signed him. It's hardly outlandish for someone to have the opinion he'd have been our best defender.

He was out injured for most of the season and wasn’t part of our best defence so don’t think we should’ve signed him for 15-20m. I do think it’s quite outlandish for someone to be adamant he’d have been our best defender if someone had actually watched the level of the Prem this season. O’Shea and Esteve are both better.

[alwaysaclaret]

Can we stop pretending like we haven’t spent?

We were top spenders in the championship and then the season after we were in the top ten spenders in Europe.

People are making out like we are playing with pennys. The club just spent poorly prioritised the wrong positions

Not pretending anything of the sort, fully agree we have spent a sizeable amount for a club of our stature. There's clearly other reasons we've had a poor season, I've also always been a big advocate of the fact it's 11 v11 on the pitch, but as I've also stated, we needed to play players in their correct positions and play to our strengths, that's mainly on vk and he's decisions and management and style, the fact that in game 37 of the season and he's still playing players out of position and persevering with the same style etc, tells me he's learnt the square root of nothing. The most burning question is why would you break up potentially the best side I've seen practically in my lifetime, without giving them a chance after winning the Championship in such style, yes we needed a few quality additions, but to blow a big chunk of our budget on 2 player's that are garbage imo and totally unproven in the Premier league was madness.

[RVclaret]

I don't think it's sensationalised.

He said it's one of the premier leagues worst relegations "in it's own way" meaning we had all the tools in place to make a better fist of it than a Derby or Sunderland for example or this seasons Sheff utd and Luton.

We had the manager (seemingly) the momentum gained from over a hundred points and the biggest transfer kitty the club has ever seen, regardless of what the actual figure is.

As for his suggestion that THB is better than any centre half at the club, it's a subjective opinion.
Based on last season I suspect most would have preferred him to O'shea to start the premier league campaign.

Prem is a completely different level now to what it was in the past so any comparison is daft. It’s complete recency bias. Newcastle in 7th have one of the best strikers in the world right now and Brazils best midfielder who other teams want for 100m. However it’s FACTUAL that our points total is not even close to one of the worst. In fact one more point and we’d match Southampton last season who had a stronger squad and spent more money!

[CoolClaret]

O’Shea and Esteve are both better.

Quite significantly better as well, though THB is probably a better passer of the ball but in terms of defending - aerially/tackling/running back to goal there's no comparison.

THB would've been badly exposed if asked to defend like we've tried to defend this season, imo.

Also - good to see you back posting.

[taio]

He was out injured for most of the season and wasn’t part of our best defence so don’t think we should’ve signed him for 15-20m. I do think it’s quite outlandish for someone to be adamant he’d have been our best defender if someone had actually watched the level of the Prem this season. O’Shea and Esteve are both better.

Out injured for most of the season?

I wouldn't say he's adamant - he's offered a view in a few words, that's all.

A case could easily be made for signing him at the time - it's just you think otherwise.

[daveisaclaret]

There's something quite funny about the same poster saying they can't get on board with someone who sensationalises things and claiming Harwood-Bellis was out injured for most of the season.

[JohnMac]

Luton, Everton, Brentford, Wolves, Forest, Sheff Utd, Bournemouth, Palace etc, don’t have WORLD CLASS players. There’s up to 48 points available from those teams alone. We don’t even need to compete with WORLD CLASS players.

Fans go on about 'The likes of' but most of those clubs are way more expirienced and have better quality players.

We competed with the teams equal to us, that was Luton and Sheff Utd. Coulda, Shoulda or Woulda taken points against the others but it's a fact of life that often reality dampens expectation.

[Spijed]

Prem is a completely different level now to what it was in the past so any comparison is daft. It’s complete recency bias. Newcastle in 7th have one of the best strikers in the world right now and Brazils best midfielder who other teams want for 100m. However it’s FACTUAL that our points total is not even close to one of the worst. In fact one more point and we’d match Southampton last season who had a stronger squad and spent more money!

Is it that much better though when Wood is still getting double figures and the likes of Tarkowski & Mee are still highly regarded defenders in the Prem?

You make it sound like we did as well as we could have done regardless.

[Wokingclaret]

He was out injured for most of the season and wasn’t part of our best defence so don’t think we should’ve signed him for 15-20m. I do think it’s quite outlandish for someone to be adamant he’d have been our best defender if someone had actually watched the level of the Prem this season. O’Shea and Esteve are both better.

Hmmm, Esteve has improved and O'shea too but still not good enough. THB might not have faired much better but believe he has a better footballing brain. Ultimately we needed an experienced centre half, goalkeeper, left back, midfielder and Striker

[Neil]

Prem is a completely different level now to what it was in the past so any comparison is daft. It’s complete recency bias. Newcastle in 7th have one of the best strikers in the world right now and Brazils best midfielder who other teams want for 100m. However it’s FACTUAL that our points total is not even close to one of the worst. In fact one more point and we’d match Southampton last season who had a stronger squad and spent more money!

Again, he said it's one worst relegations "in it's own way" so FACTUAL doesn't come into it.

[JohnMac]

Aren’t we the first team in history to be promoted with over 100 points and get less than 40 points in the prem?

I know we are first time to be relegated after achieving promotion on 100 points but the extent in which we have failed is nothing short of an embarrassment.

Some fans will do whatever they can to deflect but that article is good and hits some home truths

The article reflects what anyone can say 'after the event', there were very few questioning our signings at the time.

Hindsight is wonderful, especially for a journalist who has a platform. I wonder what his views were pre season?

I keep ambivalent about the percieved cost of our players because it's just Burnley coming out of the 1900's very late to the party. I know we are small in terms of the League but just for once the Club has gambled and similar to dozens before us, found the jump was bigger than expected. Our youngsters haven't stepped up as it was thought they could.

[taio]

The article reflects what anyone can say 'after the event', there were very few questioning our signings at the time.

Hindsight is wonderful, especially for a journalist who has a platform. I wonder what his views were pre season?

I keep ambivalent about the percieved cost of our players because it's just Burnley coming out of the 1900's very late to the party. I know we are small in terms of the League but just for once the Club has gambled and similar to dozens before us, found the jump was bigger than expected. Our youngsters haven't stepped up as it was thought they could.

There were loads of people questioning the signings, balance and inexperience last summer. The number of wingers for example was a running joke on here.

[taio]

The article reflects what anyone can say 'after the event', there were very few questioning our signings at the time.

Hindsight is wonderful, especially for a journalist who has a platform. I wonder what his views were pre season?

I keep ambivalent about the percieved cost of our players because it's just Burnley coming out of the 1900's very late to the party. I know we are small in terms of the League but just for once the Club has gambled and similar to dozens before us, found the jump was bigger than expected. Our youngsters haven't stepped up as it was thought they could.

There were loads of people questioning the signings, balance and inexperience last summer. The number of wingers for example was a running joke on here.