Our own fault

[RVclaret]

Out injured for most of the season?

I wouldn't say he's adamant - he's offered a view in a few words, that's all.

A case could easily be made for signing him at the time - it's just you think otherwise.

A significant portion (missed 18 games).

[JohnMac]

Manchester United gambled £85m on a promising striker who has weighed in with 8 goals.

[Wokingclaret]

A significant portion (missed 18 games).

Cause he banged his foot or someone stood on it, it happens!

Good to have you back RV, kind of missed ya

[alwaysaclaret]

Is it that much better though when Wood is still getting double figures and the likes of Tarkowski & Mee are still highly regarded defenders in the Prem?

You make it sound like we did as well as we could have done regardless.

All by playing good honest simple football, vk and he's team have made it far too complicated with there analystics system, to such a point I think they've baffled themselves so much that they've actually forgotten the basics of how to play good honest simple football. One thing I did notice we did better however yesterday was get crucial blocks in, had we done it from the start thing's may have been different. But ultimately we've gone to pieces against mid table teams when we could have matched them by playing simple football.

[dougcollins]

What THB did show himself to be was a natural leader.

We've definitely lacked that.

[taio]

A significant portion (missed 18 games).

32 league apperances from 46 games I think.

[RVclaret]

Cause he banged his foot or someone stood on it, it happens!

Good to have you back RV, kind of missed ya

Aye definitely not saying it was his fault like! He was great here, passion was just what we wanted and I enjoyed his passing range, but I feel we’ve seen from Beyer’s struggles (mainly due to physicality) that THB would have been the same if not worse.

[Jacko]

The article reflects what anyone can say 'after the event', there were very few questioning our signings at the time..

I think a lot of people were wondering and questioning. Lots of expensive, unproven, puzzling signings for big money. We signed very few proven at any comparable level. Redmond was arguably it and even before his injury we saw little of him.

A very bad set of signings.

And fwiw, I think THB is better than our currently playing centre halves. We've been woeful defensively. Coaching should carry the can for a lot of that though - struggle to think Tarks would have done that well in the stupid setups of this season.

[Colburn_Claret]

VK certainly isn't for turning.
He believes in the style of football he wants us to play, and definitely isn't prepared to compromise style for substance.
In some ways he has a point. We have a young, inexperienced squad. How will they learn the system if they aren't allowed to play it.
VK and Pace have said its a project, promotion last season was clearly not expected, so apart from the monetary aspect, relegation isn't a disaster. We still have a lot of very talented, youthful players.
The biggest error imo, was not to buy a leader to help these lads on the pitch, so many of the unforced errors could have been avoided.

I'm looking forward to next season, I think it will be a good one. We'll find out what lessons we have learnt if we bounce back.

[alwaysaclaret]

I think a lot of people were wondering and questioning. Lots of expensive, unproven, puzzling signings for big money. We signed very few proven at any comparable level. Redmond was arguably it and even before his injury we saw little of him.

A very bad set of signings.

And fwiw, I think THB is better than our currently playing centre halves. We've been woeful defensively. Coaching should carry the can for a lot of that though - struggle to think Tarks would have done that well in the stupid setups of this season.

Yes, I doubt Tarkowski would have been any better than our current cb's, and probably the reason why he hasn't played more for England, not he's game to play out from the back.

[RVclaret]

Is it that much better though when Wood is still getting double figures and the likes of Tarkowski & Mee are still highly regarded defenders in the Prem?

You make it sound like we did as well as we could have done regardless.

The 3 you mentioned are undoubtedly all proven PL players so it’s no real surprise. They are all earning 100k a week now for their efforts (doubt we had anyone over 50k a week this season).

And not meaning to give off that impression at all. We’ve been disappointing but always worth offering some perspective isn’t it? We were a favourite to go down and we’ve gone down. As you said many times 3 teams have to go down, it’s not massively unsurprising a team with one of the lowest budgets (I include wages here) has gone down.

[ClaretPete001]

Burnley Express saying similar and quoting a £100 million

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... ue-4624964

The fact is we only beat one PL team all season. We won 3 games against promoted sides and one against a Brentford side reduced to 10 early on.

[RVclaret]

Burnley Express saying similar and quoting a £100 million

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... ue-4624964

The fact is we only beat one PL team all season. We won 3 games against promoted sides and one against a Brentford side reduced to 10 early on.

That’s not a fact because we also beat Fulham meaning we beat two.

[Jacko]

Yes, I doubt Tarkowski would have been any better than our current cb's, and probably the reason why he hasn't played more for England, not he's game to play out from the back.

Not quite my point. Tarks is very much better than our current lot (and btw his passing is decent); but even someone like him would be hamstring by a stupid set up.

This 'passing out from the back' stuff is, for my money a misnomer, usually, and also a fad just will eventually fade. Loads of teams do it badly, including us. City can do it as they've all the best players. I'd argue they'd potentially be a better team if they played differently though. But I don't care about them.

[blatherwickstattoos]

THB is a better cb than what we have. He will go on up prove this too

[claretspice]

I don't think THB is better than OShea or Esteve and I don't think he impressed more than Beyer last season. We bought both OShea and Esteve for the cost of buying THB so I certainly don't think that business can be criticised. It's the least of our problems this season and the Independent article overplays its hand on that point.

But the general theme is right. I suspect and hope we are left after outgoings with a core squad which with judicious signings and a more humble outlook can bounce back stronger next season. But that requires a bit of humility and pragmatism in our dealings which was absent last summer. For example - whilst it is noones fault necessarily that we didn't sign Tella, we needed an athletic, aggressive right winger in his mould and the closest thing I saw to Tella in the Championship last season was Ogbene at Rotherham. Luton signed him on a free and he's been excellent for them (including a really effective game at Turf Moor). Similarly, whilst Berge was a good signing, we needed another central midfielder and we also needed Premier League know how and influence. Luton also signed Barkley on a free. Neither player was ever going to generate loads of resale value but they added to skills to Luton's squad they needed to compete. We need to learn that lesson and place a bit more emphasis on that this summer.

[ClaretPete001]

That’s not a fact because we also beat Fulham meaning we beat two.

I meant Fulham. I discounted 10 man Brentford because clearly ten men does not constitute a PL side.

Arguably a semantic but there you go. We only beat one full PL side this season.

[ClaretPete001]

I don't think THB is better than OShea or Esteve and I don't think he impressed more than Beyer last season. We bought both OShea and Esteve for the cost of buying THB so I certainly don't think that business can be criticised. It's the least of our problems this season and the Independent article overplays its hand on that point.

But the general theme is right. I suspect and hope we are left after outgoings with a core squad which with judicious signings and a more humble outlook can bounce back stronger next season. But that requires a bit of humility and pragmatism in our dealings which was absent last summer. For example - whilst it is noones fault necessarily that we didn't sign Tella, we needed an athletic, aggressive right winger in his mould and the closest thing I saw to Tella in the Championship last season was Ogbene at Rotherham. Luton signed him on a free and he's been excellent for them (including a really effective game at Turf Moor). Similarly, whilst Berge was a good signing, we needed another central midfielder and we also needed Premier League know how and influence. Luton also signed Barkley on a free. Neither player was ever going to generate loads of resale value but they added to skills to Luton's squad they needed to compete. We need to learn that lesson and place a bit more emphasis on that this summer.

Esteve is on loan and unless there is a contract in place for next season I would think he will cost a lot more now than he would have done in January.

I think it unlikely that a player of his quality would sign a deal that would likely see him playing in the Championship next season. But who knows.

[CoolClaret]

Esteve is on loan and unless there is a contract in place for next season I would think he will cost a lot more now than he would have done in January.

I think it unlikely that a player of his quality would sign a deal that would likely see him playing in the Championship next season. But who knows.

Loan with an exercised option to buy, which, for the gazillionth time, was confirmed by Matt Williams when the January window was wrapped up.

[scamander]

Yes we've been lousy but being robbed of points at Forest and against Luton have also cost us. Had the goal at Forest not been incorrectly disallowed we'd be playing them to stay up next week.

Do Forest and all the other teams get any of their mistakes corrected (including matches against us), or is it just us? I don't get the premise that it could only be us to benefit in this hypothetical situation. Surely for it to be fair every team would get equal redress. If so then we'd need a table which was corrected for all teams.

The biggest culprit in robbing points is ourselves.

[daveisaclaret]

I meant Fulham. I discounted 10 man Brentford because clearly ten men does not constitute a PL side.

Arguably a semantic but there you go. We only beat one full PL side this season.

It's a stupid way to look at it. Brentford had 10 men because they had to commit a foul to stop us scoring. That doesn't make the win less of a win.

[ClaretPete001]

It's a stupid way to look at it. Brentford had 10 men because they had to commit a foul to stop us scoring. That doesn't make the win less of a win.

It maybe stupid in whatever context the point is made in your head but in the context of how well the season has gone and the Burnley Express article above (where a similar point was cited) we have really only beaten one full PL team this season.

And the point would be the same if it was 2 or 3. I just don't think beating Brentford playing with 10 men for 80 mins or whatever, within the context of how well we've done against PL side counts.

If it makes you feel better and makes me sound less stupid - we've beaten 2 PL sides this season!

[123EasyasBFC]

Don’t understand the narrative of not classing the Brentford at home result as beating a premier league side. Beat what’s in front of you. We made them make the mistake by getting in behind them.

The season and team have been terrible for most parts of it but then fans are discrediting anything slightly positive they have done.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The article reflects what anyone can say 'after the event', there were very few questioning our signings at the time.

Hindsight is wonderful, especially for a journalist who has a platform. I wonder what his views were pre season?

I keep ambivalent about the percieved cost of our players because it's just Burnley coming out of the 1900's very late to the party. I know we are small in terms of the League but just for once the Club has gambled and similar to dozens before us, found the jump was bigger than expected. Our youngsters haven't stepped up as it was thought they could.

Go back over this board from last August. Loads and loads of posters were critical.

There were still some trying to defend it but I would say the vast majority were critical of the summer business.

[123EasyasBFC]

Go back over this board from last August. Loads and loads of posters were critical.

There were still some trying to defend it but I would say the vast majority were critical of the summer business.

The main criticism in the summer were the lack of new full backs, obviously left back but we also needed a right back and then a holding midfielder

[Newcastleclaret93]

The main criticism in the summer were the lack of new full backs, obviously left back but we also needed a right back and then a holding midfielder

A lot of people said that.

But I do not agree with that first statement, the main criticism was the stockpile of wingers. Loads of people were talking about how stupid that was

[123EasyasBFC]

A lot of people said that.

But I do not agree with that first statement, the main criticism was the stockpile of wingers. Loads of people were talking about how stupid that was

I don’t think the amount of wingers would of had as much criticism had we managed to get the full backs and holding midfielder

[daveisaclaret]

I think the amount of wingers would have had even more criticism if we'd known we'd end up playing Vitinho there anyway.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don’t think the amount of wingers would of had as much criticism had we managed to get the full backs and holding midfielder

Not sure, I still think that decision to stockpile wingers is right up there as one of the worst our club has made.

The waste of wages and money is absolutely insane given only two can play at a time

[daveisaclaret]

It maybe stupid in whatever context the point is made in your head but in the context of how well the season has gone and the Burnley Express article above (where a similar point was cited) we have really only beaten one full PL team this season.

And the point would be the same if it was 2 or 3. I just don't think beating Brentford playing with 10 men for 80 mins or whatever, within the context of how well we've done against PL side counts.

If it makes you feel better and makes me sound less stupid - we've beaten 2 PL sides this season!

It's stupid in all contexts. If you don't think our win against Brentford shows how well we've done against PL sides, that's your own business. If you think it doesn't count, that's nonsense. We have won 5 games against 4 PL sides and that's that.

[taio]

I don’t think the amount of wingers would of had as much criticism had we managed to get the full backs and holding midfielder

May be not. But the main criticism was undoubtedly the amount of wingers.

[123EasyasBFC]

Not sure, I still think that decision to stockpile wingers is right up there as one of the worst our club has made.

The waste of wages and money is absolutely insane given only two can play at a time

In hindsight it does seem crazy but I think the number of players in certain positions only became a think because of the lack of players in other positions

[123EasyasBFC]

May be not. But the main criticism was undoubtedly the amount of wingers.

The amount of wingers was no way a bigger criticism than the fact we had no left back other than Charlie Taylor who kompanu clearly didn’t want to play there

[taio]

The amount of wingers was no way a bigger criticism than the fact we had no left back other than Charlie Taylor who kompanu clearly didn’t want to play there

It really was. As I said earlier the number of wingers was a running joke or criticism on here and wider social media through the summer. Left back was often referred to as well.

[123EasyasBFC]

It really was. As I said earlier the number of wingers was a running joke or criticism on here and wider social media through the summer. Left back was often referred to as well.

You’ve answered it yourself, the amount of wingers was a running joke, there was genuine worry and criticism about us going into a season without a left back.

[taio]

You’ve answered it yourself, the amount of wingers was a running joke, there was genuine worry and criticism about us going into a season without a left back.

I said a running joke or criticism.

[123EasyasBFC]

I said a running joke or criticism.

Whatever you think is fine. The fact we didn’t have a left back was a much bigger issue than having to many wingers

[zippybid]

You’ve answered it yourself, the amount of wingers was a running joke, there was genuine worry and criticism about us going into a season without a left back.

I heard a belter the other day. Someone said that Koleosho was a bad signing and blamed Kompany.

When asked why, he said because he got injured and missed most of the season.

They were serious too. Facepalm indeed.

[Jakubclaret]

We're 2 appalling decisions away from a home game to stay in the league. Maybe we're not as far off it as some seem to wish we were.

If you were to exclude the 4 from forest we would be even further. Everybody in the league at some point have had misfortunate incidents thinking of the 2 joining us an heart attack & career ending horrific injury if that isn't bad luck I'm not sure what is.

[kevinlasagne]

Last summers transfer strategy, or lack thereof, is whats truly screwed us this season.
At the end of last season the big signings we needed were:

- a strong CB (someone with prem experience ideally)
- a DM to replace Cork
- a LB
- a RW (ideally Tella)
- a good striker

we failed on all 5 positions IMO. O'shea isnt bad but I think we should have aimed higher. Amdouni played more as an AM than a striker for Basel.
Complete train wreck of a window. It'll take a lot of work do undo the damage that was done.

[DocSavage]

Luton, Everton, Brentford, Wolves, Forest, Sheff Utd, Bournemouth, Palace etc, don’t have WORLD CLASS players. There’s up to 48 points available from those teams alone. We don’t even need to compete with WORLD CLASS players.

Absolutely right, how many points have we just gifted away to those teams