Bolton v Oxford Utd - League One Play Off Final

[RammyClaret61]

It’s 6am on Sunday morning. This as already made my day…. Bolton

[CoolClaret]

1) I didn’t say they signed him from Wimbledon

2) Unless you can attribute Bournemouth’s relegation to the goalkeeper then this is merely incidental.

Look, you said no serious PL club would take a goalkeeper straight from L1 to the PL and I’ve given you an example of one that did. Not sure why you need to muddy the waters here.

I'm not muddying the waters. They went straight back down.

I can't even believe this is still a point of contention - it was an unnecessary signing, that was further poorly managed.

[Rileybobs]

I'm not muddying the waters. They went straight back down.

I can't even believe this is still a point of contention - it was an unnecessary signing, that was further poorly managed.

But that’s not where we’re disagreeing. My original point was that because a player has only played at league one level does not predicate that they do not have the ability to play at PL level. You said that no PL side has thrown a goalkeeper into the PL with just L1 experience, to which I showed you Bournemouth and Ramsdale. You could have just accepted that but you started moving the goalposts and making different arguments that I’m not disagreeing with you about.

Anyway, no point going round and round. Trafford clearly was the wrong signing for this season, but that’s not because he was previously on loan at Bolton.

[ClaretTony]

Aaron Ramsdale played 37 PL games for Bournemouth in 19/20 despite is highest level of experience being at AFC Wimbledon in League 1. That season he won supporter’s player of the year.

Because I think the fact that we signed him from the best team in the country counts for something. Calling him a league 1 player is a little disingenuous and I think intentionally so.

Ramsdale had been at Bournemouth for two and a half years before he made his debut for them. He’d been on loan to League 2 & League 1 but he’d also spent time training with Bournemouth. I know Nick Pope had played a few games in the Championship, it was very similar to his move, signed for the future and not straight into the team.

[Rileybobs]

Ramsdale had been at Bournemouth for two and a half years before he made his debut for them. He’d been on loan to League 2 & League 1 but he’d also spent time training with Bournemouth. I know Nick Pope had played a few games in the Championship, it was very similar to his move, signed for the future and not straight into the team.

Yes, all true, but Trafford had already been in a PL set up at Manchester City.

[Big Vinny K]

Yes, all true, but Trafford had already been in a PL set up at Manchester City.

What does that even mean ?
That’s like saying Lukas Jensen had already been in a PL set up at Burnley.
Both were nowhere near the first team squad.
There’s a reason they sent him to the first division on loan - and it wasn’t because they thought that would prepare him for the PL. It was because they thought he was a long way from being ready for the PL.

It’s probably the most baffling transfer in the clubs history. So baffling that I’m convinced there’s more to it.

[CoolClaret]

But that’s not where we’re disagreeing. My original point was that because a player has only played at league one level does not predicate that they do not have the ability to play at PL level. You said that no PL side has thrown a goalkeeper into the PL with just L1 experience, to which I showed you Bournemouth and Ramsdale. You could have just accepted that but you started moving the goalposts and making different arguments that I’m not disagreeing with you about.

Anyway, no point going round and round. Trafford clearly was the wrong signing for this season, but that’s not because he was previously on loan at Bolton.

I never said that a player from L1 cannot eventually be a regular PL player.

So your rebuttal is quite literally one player that then went on to have two consecutive relegations from the PL and now finds him self second fiddle behind David Raya.

I didn't move the goalposts at all - I was merely highlighting how poor the standard of football was on display for the L1 playoff final and why we thought that taking a lad that has only ever played senior football at that level to go straight in as goalkeeper (which is so important in our system) for us in the PL was very silly.

[Rileybobs]

What does that even mean ?
That’s like saying Lukas Jensen had already been in a PL set up at Burnley.
Both were nowhere near the first team squad.
There’s a reason they sent him to the first division on loan - and it wasn’t because they thought that would prepare him for the PL. It was because they thought he was a long way from being ready for the PL.

It’s probably the most baffling transfer in the clubs history. So baffling that I’m convinced there’s more to it.

It’s clear what I mean if you read my discussion with coolclaret, where he said that no PL team has thrown a goalkeeper into a PL side with only L1 experience. Bournemouth did exactly that with Ramsdale so I’m not really interested in answering other arguments that are being made because they don’t make the fact that Bournemouth made Ramsdale their number 1 despite only having played at League 1 level. The rest is just noise.

[Rileybobs]

I never said that a player from L1 cannot eventually be a regular PL player.

So your rebuttal is quite literally one player that then went on to have two consecutive relegations from the PL and now finds him self second fiddle behind David Raya.

I didn't move the goalposts at all - I was merely highlighting how poor the standard of football was on display for the L1 playoff final and why we thought that taking a lad that has only ever played senior football at that level to go straight in as goalkeeper (which is so important in our system) for us in the PL was very silly.

See above. Being second fiddle to Raya at a side that could win the title tomorrow doesn’t change the fact that Ramsdale was thrown into a PL side despite only having played at L1 level. Not sure why me pointing this out has led to such a drawn out discussion when the fact could just have been accepted.

[Rileybobs]

It’s probably the most baffling transfer in the clubs history. So baffling that I’m convinced there’s more to it.

Should have asked in my last response, but what more do you think there is to the transfer?

[ClaretTony]

Yes, all true, but Trafford had already been in a PL set up at Manchester City.

But not involved with the first team squad.

[burnmark]

Mate is a Bolton fan. He was absolutely gobsmacked how poor they were. Just never turned up.

[CoolClaret]

See above. Being second fiddle to Raya at a side that could win the title tomorrow doesn’t change the fact that Ramsdale was thrown into a PL side despite only having played at L1 level. Not sure why me pointing this out has led to such a drawn out discussion when the fact could just have been accepted.

Because you gave just one example, i.e, it's certainly not a common occurrence, and in that example, Ramsdale was already on their books and I highlighted it was a poor example seen as Bournemouth got relegated.

Again, not sure why there's so much contention here. It's not even about the player per say. I was just highlighting how miles away L1 is from the PL and why it's not a smart idea to take players straight from there into the PL.

[ClaretTony]

Mate is a Bolton fan. He was absolutely gobsmacked how poor they were. Just never turned up.

I kept thinking they must be stuck on the motorway and they'd turn up at some point - thankfully never did

[Big Vinny K]

Should have asked in my last response, but what more do you think there is to the transfer?

Well firstly we paid less than £3m from the same club for a keeper who was ahead of Trafford, had more experience and was physically stronger. They were both young and both of them had the ability with their feet that has now become part of the Man City way for all their keepers.
To pay between £15m and £20m for Trafford defies all logic and precedent for goal keeper transfers in this country who were in the same position as Trafford.
That leads me to think it was a deal between the 2 clubs that was connected to City’s FFP situation and selling home grown players.
The fee we paid for him probably goes into the top 20 goal keeping transfer fees in the world ever !! It makes zero sense.

[Rileybobs]

Well firstly we paid less than £3m from the same club for a keeper who was ahead of Trafford, had more experience and was physically stronger. They were both young and both of them had the ability with their feet that has now become part of the Man City way for all their keepers.
To pay between £15m and £20m for Trafford defies all logic and precedent for goal keeper transfers in this country who were in the same position as Trafford.
That leads me to think it was a deal between the 2 clubs that was connected to City’s FFP situation and selling home grown players.
The fee we paid for him probably goes into the top 20 goal keeping transfer fees in the world ever !! It makes zero sense.

And what would Burnley gain from such a deal?

[Big Vinny K]

And what would Burnley gain from such a deal?

Yep it would be perplexing to think that there were some dodgy dealings going on between football clubs

[Rileybobs]

Yep it would be perplexing to think that there were some dodgy dealings going on between football clubs

But how would Burnley gain from such a deal?

[Big Vinny K]

But how would Burnley gain from such a deal?

There could be lots of ways that various individuals could gain.
You’re an educated person - I’m sure you can think of some.

[Rileybobs]

There could be lots of ways that various individuals could gain.
You’re an educated person - I’m sure you can think of some.

I can see how Man City would gain from us buying one of their players for more than their worth, but I can’t see how Burnley would gain from that transaction. You made the claim which is why I’m asking you how you think Burnley have or will benefit from this deal?

[Big Vinny K]

I can see how Man City would gain from us buying one of their players for more than their worth, but I can’t see how Burnley would gain from that transaction. You made the claim which is why I’m asking you how you think Burnley have or will benefit from this deal?

Just said that there are some very obvious ways that certain individuals could gain from such a deal.
You are getting into baby reindeer territory now with the questions
Enjoy the game

[Rileybobs]

Just said that there are some very obvious ways that certain individuals could gain from such a deal.
You are getting into baby reindeer territory now with the questions
Enjoy the game

I don’t really get the baby reindeer reference. This place is v frustrating at times, I just asked a simple question as I fail to see how BFC can benefit from paying over market price for a favour to do Man City a favour. The only way I can see an individual at BFC benefiting is if they are recompensed for such a deal, in which case the payment would be illegal and traceable and therefore highly unlikely. And if this is what you’re intimating, who is the individual? Pace? Kompany?

[NL Claret]

Opens thread to read about Bolton v Oxford.............

[Swizzlestick]

I don’t think it’s any deeper than - we needed a keeper, lost out on Verbruggen, moved to Trafford and paid a premium due to his nationality, his involvement in the Under 21’s and perhaps the genuine belief he could make it at the top level.

[hetheclaret]

Opens thread to read about Bolton v Oxford.............

Frustrating isn’t it…

[kentonclaret]

Looks as though Crewe are going the same way as Bolton- slipping to a 2-0 Play-Off Final defeat.

[IanMcL]

And what would Burnley gain from such a deal?

Maybe Muric, the previous season.