Trafford to Chelsea?

[NewClaret]

Obviously, the Trafford thing has been exhausted over and over again, but it still completely baffles me how anybody sees anything at all in this lad. He's simply not got the basics in my opinion, and if he hasn't got that now you can't coach it at this stage. Every aspect of his game is just poor imo. Pope is literally light year's ahead of him. Yes, there's an age gap, but I just don't see Trafford ever getting anywhere near pope.

Well he’s already achieved an England call up at a far younger age and seems to have at least two of the biggest premier league clubs interested in him, so I’d imagine their goalkeeper trainers feel differently. Time will tell who’s right.

[CoolClaret]

Well he’s already achieved an England call up at a far younger age and seems to have at least two of the biggest premier league clubs interested in him, so I’d imagine their goalkeeper trainers feel differently. Time will tell who’s right.

It doesn't necessarily work like that though, does it?

Pope is one of those players who slipped through the cracks in the football system. It's challenging for players who work their way up the ranks like he has done, as the coaching they receive in non-league football is often not at the level, nor is the frequency of sessions required to maximise their potential.

Even when Pope was consistently delivering world-class saves for us on a regular basis, his talent seemed to go unnoticed. Despite his impressive performances, he remained under appreciated and often overlooked for whatever reason. Howe eventually takes a punt and finally he starts to receive his plaudits after plaudits.

On the other hand, Traff has had the advantage of being at Manchester City from a young age, where he'll have received the best coaching possible...He's already accumulated over 100 appearances in senior-level football - considering this I thought he'd be more along in his development than he is. Still has the look/feel of a rookie keeper to me which is concerning.

There still seems to be this notion that development is this linear progression directly correlated with age but never seem to factor in experience and various other factors.

[alwaysaclaret]

It's best to compare the two at the same age. Pope spent the season in which he turned 20 on loan at Harrow Borough and Welling United. Did he look vastly better than Trafford at that age?

Trafford was one of the best keepers in League One in 2022-23. Do you think he's going backwards? Or is that the sort of level that you mean when you say he's poor?

Get what your saying regarding age, however can't comment on Trafford's performance in league one because I didn't see him, I'm commenting on what I've seen so far for Burnley in the Premier league, and from that I've concluded that he simply doesn't have the basics of what's needed to progress as a top keeper. He's obviously a keeper of sorts, but I just don't see him ever getting remotely close to what's needed to become the top keeper that many are saying he will at premier league level or on the international stage. OK, he's performing at u21 level, but it's a far cry from the full international stage, we've seen many a player do well at u21 level over the years, but never made it on the big stage.

[alwaysaclaret]

Well he’s already achieved an England call up at a far younger age and seems to have at least two of the biggest premier league clubs interested in him, so I’d imagine their goalkeeper trainers feel differently. Time will tell who’s right.

You've only to look at the number of player's Southgate has blooded at international level, of a young age as well, go back in history and international teams that win anything have history of a settled squad, not Southgate's idea, so not sure Trafford's call up is anything to go by in terms of whether he's of an elite level or not. Lot's have become disinterested in England football team because of Southgate's philosophy imo. Only time will tell, but I don't believe Trafford will ever make that elite standard.

[Rowls]

I'd take £20 million for the lad, but I truly believe he's worth it.

He needs to bulk up a fair bit but some of that will come will age.

As our manager is johnnying off imminently, I now feel no compunction in saying that James Trafford has been thrown to the wolves with our tactics this season. Our defensive "plan" last year was not just suicidal in terms of our immediate results, it undermined us at every stage of the season.

Defneding as ill organised and diabolically mis-managed as that has the potential to wreck players careers by ruining their confidence.

James Trafford was the biggest victim of this awful approach.

[jlup1980]

£20m for Trafford is a no brainer. He might go on and have a great career, ending up as England no.1 for years to come. However, a lot of our fans have already done with him and he'll struggle to win them over.

I'll admit I much prefer Muric myself, but he made more individual errors than Trafford this season. His errors against Everton and Brighton were the final nails in the coffin. Trafford looked young, inexperienced and out of his depth at times - but he didn't really make any howlers. He just looked like a young keeper learning his trade. He will improve, but £20m is still a significant sum for this club. Also, we would still have Muric, BPF and Vigouroux on the books so next season is already sorted!

[fatboy47]

Well he’s already achieved an England call up at a far younger age .

Do you think he'd have received his various call ups if he'd been a product of Burnley's youth system?

Genuine question.

[NewClaret]

Do you think he'd have received his various call ups if he'd been a product of Burnley's youth system?

Genuine question.

No, definitely not.

That’s the bias that we know exists. Although equally it’s clear that through City and England he’s been very well coached and at such a young age he has super high potential.

I was replying to a post that said he had “none of the basic ingredients”… which is just not true and at his age there is simply no way on this earth that England would pick him or Chelsea/Newcastle would be interested without the basics grasped… regardless of whether he came up through the City academy (there are a lot of young City players who don’t get picked as well).

Time will tell though, because he will need to continue to develop to fulfil his potential.

[Goliath]

No, definitely not.

That’s the bias that we know exists. Although equally it’s clear that through City and England he’s been very well coached and at such a young age he has super high potential.

I was replying to a post that said he had “none of the basic ingredients”… which is just not true and at his age there is simply no way on this earth that England would pick him or Chelsea/Newcastle would be interested without the basics grasped… regardless of whether he came up through the City academy (there are a lot of young City players who don’t get picked as well).

Time will tell though, because he will need to continue to develop to fulfil his potential.

I'd love to know what kind of coaching keepers receive though. I imagine one of the big reasons Nick Pope is so commanding of his box is that he had to come through non league. To stand out he will have had to be able to handle crosses.
Trafford will never get that exposure that he probably needs to improve that side of his game. It also probably explains why there's so few Nick Pope's around.

[ksrclaret]

I'd take £20 million for the lad, but I truly believe he's worth it.

He needs to bulk up a fair bit but some of that will come will age.

As our manager is johnnying off imminently, I now feel no compunction in saying that James Trafford has been thrown to the wolves with our tactics this season. Our defensive "plan" last year was not just suicidal in terms of our immediate results, it undermined us at every stage of the season.

Defneding as ill organised and diabolically mis-managed as that has the potential to wreck players careers by ruining their confidence.

James Trafford was the biggest victim of this awful approach.

Absolutely spot on Rowls.

You've posted quite a few times this season about our appalling defending and I've agreed with every sentence. Putting Trafford into a team as badly managed as ours looks to have done him far more harm than good at this stage.

[Squidgy]

We know that Trafford has some weaknesses in his game. My main issue is that he lacks bulk. As stated by others that will come. However some of the criticism made about his game and consistent comments about his costing us games fail to take in to consideration what he’s had in front of him. The defence has at times, far too many times been shambolic.
Talk of Newcastle being mid table with him in goal is completely misguided. With their defence he wouldn’t have been exposed to a fraction of what he has. They mark better, close down far faster and certainly didn’t start the season with a shambolic defensive set up consisting mainly of a team of the vertically challenged. He’s 20. Blame no one other than Kompany.

With regards to his not being dropped there may well be a reason for that! I have seen on a couple of posts some time ago that there may well have been a contractual obligation for him to play around 75% of first team games. If and I say if that’s true and I don’t know if that’s the case that’s about what he played. If Kompany believed he had what it would take to cope and he desperately wanted him then that may well be the case. I venture to suggest no one on this board will be privy to his contract. I have heard talk in the stands from “people who know someone at the club” that this was the case.

I doubt we will never know but I do know with a half decent defence he wouldn’t have let in anywhere the number of goals he did.

[Stproc]

I’m fairly sure that Trafford will be a very good goalkeeper that will play at the highest level for a long time. He had a tough year last year learning his trade in the Premier League with a fairly erratic defence in front of him. Plus being asked to do something, that isn’t a strength. If we are selling him, I’d like it to be for quite a bit more than 20 million, when you compare that figure to other amounts that’s been splashed out on goalkeepers. A bidding war is required, maybe.

[RVclaret]

This contractual 75% thing needs throwing in the bin.

He played 28/38 games which is 73.7% and therefore would not meet a >75% clause even if there was one.

[claret2018]

If we get £30m+ for Kompany and Trafford it will be the best start to an off-season as I think we’ve had in our history.

[JimmyRobbo]

So, the 3 clubs currently interested in our young gk are Chelsea, Newcastle and Liverpool and people on here are desperate to snap hands off.

If the links are real, then he truly has a very high ceiling and will likely increase in value. No need to blink this early in proceedings.

Then again, who knows what is really happening? Most on here won't.

[kendalianclaret]

All this talk of Chelsea and Newcastle being interested in him, i personally don't want him to leave because i do believe there is a good keeper in him, i don't think he was helped at all by persevering with him through those poor team performances, having said that i thought when we brought him to Burnley, Man City had first shout at taking him back, or have i missed something.

[NewClaret]

It doesn't necessarily work like that though, does it?

Pope is one of those players who slipped through the cracks in the football system. It's challenging for players who work their way up the ranks like he has done, as the coaching they receive in non-league football is often not at the level, nor is the frequency of sessions required to maximise their potential.

Even when Pope was consistently delivering world-class saves for us on a regular basis, his talent seemed to go unnoticed. Despite his impressive performances, he remained under appreciated and often overlooked for whatever reason. Howe eventually takes a punt and finally he starts to receive his plaudits after plaudits.

On the other hand, Traff has had the advantage of being at Manchester City from a young age, where he'll have received the best coaching possible...He's already accumulated over 100 appearances in senior-level football - considering this I thought he'd be more along in his development than he is. Still has the look/feel of a rookie keeper to me which is concerning.

There still seems to be this notion that development is this linear progression directly correlated with age but never seem to factor in experience and various other factors.

Just replied to another post which acknowledges some of these points.

I agree progression in the England set-up is helped by being at City, which sets you up for the U21’s and then you’re on the radar. Fighting your way up and in, as Pope had to, is obviously a lot harder.

That said if you read my post in the context it was written, it’s a nonsense to say a player with none of the basic ingredients to be a good keeper would be selected by England or sought after by Newcastle/Chelsea. That just does not happen.

I agree progression is not linear and players develop at different rates at different ages. In Traff’s case he’ll still have to develop a lot to reach the levels he’s capable of. Others may catch up, time will tell, but I think it’s fair to say he’s a better keeper at his age and more experienced than Pope was.

I don’t think he looked a rookie at all. I think he struggled in our team playing a high line that he probably had never played before. His positioning and confidence looked off. He was okay on the ball compared to say Pope, who never looked comfortable to me, but nowhere near Muric levels. He also played behind a weaker defence in my view, than Muric, but it’s fair to say Muric played a key role in shoring up the defence too.

There were lots of games last year we had the away ends chanting “super James Trafford in goal” and he quite frankly saved us from utterly embarrassing defeats. He had some very good games. He was inconsistent, along with the rest of the team.

Ultimately he was mismanaged here but the national team and other top 6/10 teams will see through all that and look at his potential, which is very high, and likely pay for the privilege of his learning curve being on our watch and to our detriment.

Ironically, for him a full year in the Championship would probably be best for his development.

[dsr]

This contractual 75% thing needs throwing in the bin.

He played 28/38 games which is 73.7% and therefore would not meet a >75% clause even if there was one.

Agreed. If (a big if) there was a contractual obligation re. the 75%, it's more likely that there was an extra transfer payment due to Man City if he played 75% of the games. That at least would explain why he was dropped after a good team performance at West Ham.

Contractual agreements based on appearances are far more likely between two clubs than between a club and an individual player.

[NewClaret]

Agreed. If (a big if) there was a contractual obligation re. the 75%, it's more likely that there was an extra transfer payment due to Man City if he played 75% of the games. That at least would explain why he was dropped after a good team performance at West Ham.

Contractual agreements based on appearances are far more likely between two clubs than between a club and an individual player.

I agree with this but also feel it’s both a **** way to treat Trafford and Muric.

Trafford knows he was only dropped to save a few £.

Muric knows he was only reinstated to save a few £.

I had a lot of patience with Kompany last year, but his treatment of these two was appalling management.

[NewClaret]

All this talk of Chelsea and Newcastle being interested in him, i personally don't want him to leave because i do believe there is a good keeper in him, i don't think he was helped at all by persevering with him through those poor team performances, having said that i thought when we brought him to Burnley, Man City had first shout at taking him back, or have i missed something.

Like all transfer information, nobody really knows much, but it was reported at the time that they have a £57m buy back clause.

I assume if we accept any other offer they might also have an option to match it.

[CoolClaret]

Just replied to another post which acknowledges some of these points.

I agree progression in the England set-up is helped by being at City, which sets you up for the U21’s and then you’re on the radar. Fighting your way up and in, as Pope had to, is obviously a lot harder.

That said if you read my post in the context it was written, it’s a nonsense to say a player with none of the basic ingredients to be a good keeper would be selected by England or sought after by Newcastle/Chelsea. That just does not happen.

I agree progression is not linear and players develop at different rates at different ages. In Traff’s case he’ll still have to develop a lot to reach the levels he’s capable of. Others may catch up, time will tell, but I think it’s fair to say he’s a better keeper at his age and more experienced than Pope was.

I don’t think he looked a rookie at all. I think he struggled in our team playing a high line that he probably had never played before. His positioning and confidence looked off. He was okay on the ball compared to say Pope, who never looked comfortable to me, but nowhere near Muric levels. He also played behind a weaker defence in my view, than Muric, but it’s fair to say Muric played a key role in shoring up the defence too.

There were lots of games last year we had the away ends chanting “super James Trafford in goal” and he quite frankly saved us from utterly embarrassing defeats. He had some very good games. He was inconsistent, along with the rest of the team.

Ultimately he was mismanaged here but the national team and other top 6/10 teams will see through all that and look at his potential, which is very high, and likely pay for the privilege of his learning curve being on our watch and to our detriment.

Ironically, for him a full year in the Championship would probably be best for his development.

I fully agree that he (and the team as a whole) was mismanaged - especially if he is one for the future... absolutely no questions there.

There's just things in his game which I don't think he has and they should be second nature/natural for any goalie at any level - namely he lacks conviction, seems hesitant to go where he may receive contact and also for me has a very poor vertical spring.

I just don't see it with him.

[IanMcL]

I agree with this but also feel it’s both a **** way to treat Trafford and Muric.

Trafford knows he was only dropped to save a few £.

Muric knows he was only reinstated to save a few £.

I had a lot of patience with Kompany last year, but his treatment of these two was appalling management.

His decision making, throughout, was appalling.

[roperclaret]

Do you think he'd have received his various call ups if he'd been a product of Burnley's youth system?

Genuine question.

Pointless question. The reason he was at City is because he was the best in his age group

[boatshed bill]

This thread has a few of the finest examples of conjecture being turned into fact.

[Darthlaw]

Has anyone picked up on the fact that Trafford had to play behind 14 unique defences in his 28 games? 7 different defences in his first 10 games.

Just in case theres any question of how much he was thrown under the bus by VK.

Ironically, with the most settled defence (Palace to the Villa game), he played behind 3 defences and conceded 16 goals in 10 games - an Identical record to Mr Aro Muric.

[IanMcL]

Chelsea Liverpool Newcastle.

They can all afford him!

[kentonclaret]

The irony on here at times is something to behold.

Kompany has a few tenuous links to some of the top 6 clubs and it’s a chorus of “These top clubs are interested in Kompany for a reason, they can spot the management potential many on here can’t, the fact that there were links proves that he will go right to the very top.”

Trafford has a few links to top 6 clubs and it’s a chorus of “I just can’t see it, hopeless on crosses, poor distribution these clubs have all got it wrong”.

Hilarious really.

[Carlos the Great]

Just replied to another post which acknowledges some of these points.

I agree progression in the England set-up is helped by being at City, which sets you up for the U21’s and then you’re on the radar. Fighting your way up and in, as Pope had to, is obviously a lot harder.

That said if you read my post in the context it was written, it’s a nonsense to say a player with none of the basic ingredients to be a good keeper would be selected by England or sought after by Newcastle/Chelsea. That just does not happen.

I agree progression is not linear and players develop at different rates at different ages. In Traff’s case he’ll still have to develop a lot to reach the levels he’s capable of. Others may catch up, time will tell, but I think it’s fair to say he’s a better keeper at his age and more experienced than Pope was.

I don’t think he looked a rookie at all. I think he struggled in our team playing a high line that he probably had never played before. His positioning and confidence looked off. He was okay on the ball compared to say Pope, who never looked comfortable to me, but nowhere near Muric levels. He also played behind a weaker defence in my view, than Muric, but it’s fair to say Muric played a key role in shoring up the defence too.

There were lots of games last year we had the away ends chanting “super James Trafford in goal” and he quite frankly saved us from utterly embarrassing defeats. He had some very good games. He was inconsistent, along with the rest of the team.

Ultimately he was mismanaged here but the national team and other top 6/10 teams will see through all that and look at his potential, which is very high, and likely pay for the privilege of his learning curve being on our watch and to our detriment.

Ironically, for him a full year in the Championship would probably be best for his development.

I’m not sure Trafford is inconsistent .. I think there are certain parts of his game he is very good at .. but he is also very poor in other parts . For me his inability to make quick distribution passes is unacceptable at this
level .. I’m not sure you can teach someone that either

[NewClaret]

I’m not sure Trafford is inconsistent .. I think there are certain parts of his game he is very good at .. but he is also very poor in other parts . For me his inability to make quick distribution passes is unacceptable at this
level .. I’m not sure you can teach someone that either

Honestly think that is one of the most coachable aspects with the right coach.

Bit of a generalisation here but I can’t see Billy Mercer doing it for instance but one that focus’ heavily on how they use their feet should be able to both improve the accuracy and speed of the passing.

I agree that how quickly he distributes the ball was a weakness compared to Muric who does it very well.

[fatboy47]

I cant help feeling that those sat back waiting for the big bucks to come rolling in for Trafford may have a very long wait. I think if a big club offers anything even approaching the silly money we paid, and the club will take their hands off.

Just my opinion.

[scamander]

On the one hand him being at City will have given him better exposure. On the other hand it's not as if he's there because City lack anyone who wanted to play in goal.

In short he wasn't some random player City were happy to have around. I expect he had strong competition for his place. He represented England at various youth levels. Point being is that at this moment in his career he is seen as a bright prospect.

The lack of weight does make me remember De Gea and the criticism he had when first joining Utd. The biggest issue was having an expectation upon him which few very experienced keepers would handle (playing with a poor defence).

[elwaclaret]

I do not doubt Trafford could become a very good keeper. I just hope if Chelsea call, he does not try to jump at it.

[Rileybobs]

I do not doubt Trafford could become a very good keeper. I just hope if Chelsea call, he does not try to jump at it.

If the opportunity to join Chelsea arises he should grab it with both hands.

[elwaclaret]

On the one hand him being at City will have given him better exposure. On the other hand it's not as if he's there because City lack anyone who wanted to play in goal.

In short he wasn't some random player City were happy to have around. I expect he had strong competition for his place. He represented England at various youth levels. Point being is that at this moment in his career he is seen as a bright prospect.

The lack of weight does make me remember De Gea and the criticism he had when first joining Utd. The biggest issue was having an expectation upon him which few very experienced keepers would handle (playing with a poor defence).

Do not disagree with most of this but De Gea never became good in the air and there is a lot less protection for keepers again now than when he was at United… that is what Trafford has to master for me, a keeper needs to shout “That is mine” and having given clear warning, smash through anything in his way.

[Suratclaret]

If the opportunity to join Chelsea arises he should grab it with both hands.

Like he does with crosses?

[Elizabeth]

Trafford can clear off as far as I’m concerned. Been speaking to a family this afternoon whose little son was a mascot this season . All Trafford had to do was hold his hand and make him feel it was a big day in his life. Trafford didn’t as much acknowledge the lad , no words or any recognition.
The player is full of himself as well as being out of his depth last season

[Carlos the Great]

Trafford can clear off as far as I’m concerned. Been speaking to a family this afternoon whose little son was a mascot this season . All Trafford had to do was hold his hand and make him feel it was a big day in his life. Trafford didn’t as much acknowledge the lad , no words or any recognition.
The player is full of himself as well as being out of his depth last season

Maybe Trafford thought someone going hold his hand ?

[Cooclaret]

Trafford can clear off as far as I’m concerned. Been speaking to a family this afternoon whose little son was a mascot this season . All Trafford had to do was hold his hand and make him feel it was a big day in his life. Trafford didn’t as much acknowledge the lad , no words or any recognition.
The player is full of himself as well as being out of his depth last season

[Shaggy]

Trafford can clear off as far as I’m concerned. Been speaking to a family this afternoon whose little son was a mascot this season . All Trafford had to do was hold his hand and make him feel it was a big day in his life. Trafford didn’t as much acknowledge the lad , no words or any recognition.
The player is full of himself as well as being out of his depth last season

He was probably worried that he’d be outmuscled by the little lad and would probably flap at the hand hold and drop his hand.

[taio]

Trafford can clear off as far as I’m concerned. Been speaking to a family this afternoon whose little son was a mascot this season . All Trafford had to do was hold his hand and make him feel it was a big day in his life. Trafford didn’t as much acknowledge the lad , no words or any recognition.
The player is full of himself as well as being out of his depth last season

You might be over-thinking it

[Ric_C]

Some people still kidding themselves that Trafford is a decent keeper

[dsr]

Some people still kidding themselves that Trafford is a decent keeper

If those people include the powers that be at Liverpool, Chelsea, and Newcastle, then the fact that they don't include Ric_C probably won't bother anyone at the club.

[Hipper]

When I saw Trafford the main shortcoming seemed to be his lack of maturity. Generally he seemed overawed by his situation playing in front of more experienced players, he didn't want to dominate his area, didn't/couldn't shout instructions or guidance to his defenders, and, as others have said, was cruelly exposed by a very weak defence made up of poor players for the level we were playing at. Hardly an opportunity for smooth development that he needs.

Whilst it's difficult to see through all that to find what qualities he does have for top level performances all I have is hope that, again as others have said, the efforts of Manchester City's coaching staff and the fact that he was the England u-21's number one means there is potential there providing he is allowed the time to mature properly. Perhaps a season at Championship level will give him that time.

Trafford looks to have the potential to be a more solid goalkeeper then Muric who I think will never be described as 'solid and reliable'.

[Quickenthetempo]

Trafford can clear off as far as I’m concerned. Been speaking to a family this afternoon whose little son was a mascot this season . All Trafford had to do was hold his hand and make him feel it was a big day in his life. Trafford didn’t as much acknowledge the lad , no words or any recognition.
The player is full of himself as well as being out of his depth last season

Which game was it? I will go back and check the teams coming out of the tunnel.

I'm not his biggest fan but putting personal stuff on about him is a bit wrong. Without evidence.

[123EasyasBFC]

If you watch the England inside training on YouTube, Trafford is the only keeper who doesn’t make a save

[NL Claret]

Posters constantly dug out Trafford when in the team, Trafford got dropped, posters dug him out. Trafford gets linked with clubs far bigger than Burnley, Trafford gets digs. Trafford gets called up to the England, guess what, he gets digs.

If Trafford was to leave, would posters continue over scrutise and dig him out? What would they do if he went on to have a successful career? Be miserable probably.

[Rileybobs]

Posters constantly dug out Trafford when in the team, Trafford got dropped, posters dug him out. Trafford gets linked with clubs far bigger than Burnley, Trafford gets digs. Trafford gets called up to the England, guess what, he gets digs.

If Trafford was to leave, would posters continue over scrutise and dig him out? What would they do if he went on to have a successful career? Be miserable probably.

Not sure I can think of a Burnley player past or present who has received such an unwarranted level of criticism and abuse. It’s pathetic.

[what_no_pies]

Not sure I can think of a Burnley player past or present who has received such an unwarranted level of criticism and abuse. It’s pathetic.

Really? I can think of loads. You're right about it being pathetic.

[Rileybobs]

Really? I can think of loads. You're right about it being pathetic.

Who are you thinking of?

[123EasyasBFC]

Who are you thinking of?

Hendrick used to get so much abuse when dyche moved him to the right of the midfield 4