Next manager

[123EasyasBFC]

It’s crazy that as soon as Bellamy and Jackson where announced in the interim that they were the masterminds to the championship winning team and last season they had no say and it was solely on Kompany hahaha.

Fans don’t want us to take a risk on a manager who hasnt managed in the champ or England before but would happily want Bellamy who has never been a manager before

[Ric_C]

If we went down this route then we would need a Director of Football, as there is no way Bellamy and Jackson would be able to deal with all the player recruitment in and out

[jojomk1]

Can't speak German, perhaps?

Vorsprung durch technik

[Goliath]

This is a man who has had rumours of bullying follow him everywhere throughout his career. Giving a man like that the keys to the castle is an absolute recipe for disaster.
I'd take literally anyone else in the betting list over him.

[Rileybobs]

Think we can put most of this season gone down to Kompany to be honest. I get what you are saying obviously. But I feel he’s always been the man that decides everything. Reading between the lines of many players wanting Bellamy and Jackson suggests similar?

I guess it depends which view you take

1) last season was an absolute shambles and we need to rip up everything, change the strategy and start again. In this case continuity of play style makes no sense and why you’d want someone like Moyes for a win at all costs approach.

2) can see what was being tried, Kompany got a hell of a lot wrong from start to finish, but still we looked a v competitive PL team towards the back end, and if that style was to continue into the Champ we would do very well (highlighting we beat 2x probable top 6 Champ teams 3 times out of 4, which should have been 4/4).

I don’t think the views have to be so binary. I think we can have a continuation on style to suit the players we are likely to retain whilst making additions to strengthen the team things we’re not good at. I would prefer a manager who likes to play attractive, possession based football, but that doesn’t have to be in the exact mould as Kompany, and the players we have should have the skill set and attributes to adapt to different systems. I don’t think anybody wants us to sign two big centre forwards and pump the ball long, but there are more than two ways of playing.

Couple of other points, I don’t think Moyes would be a win at all costs manager. I expect he has the ability and knowledge to set his team up to play in an expansive way. Obviously for a West Ham, in order to over achieve in terms of league position he recognised that a more pragmatic approach would fare better, and he was proven right.

I disagree entirely that we looked like a very competitive PL side towards the end. We generally flattered to deceive. Scoring goals and preventing goals conceded are the two fundamentals of football at any level, and we didn’t get either close to right. Everything that happened in between gave people, and probably the players and staff, an false belief that we were competitive, whereas the opposition were always more than happy for us to pass the ball around from side to side knowing that a) we won’t score, and b) they will.

[Venkys4eva]

It will be Lampard

[Big Vinny K]

There’s been a lot of nonsense written and spoken (by VK) about our supposed improvement in form in the second half of the season.
The truth is we were just a little less sh-it.
We carried on making the same mistakes at the back and we were pretty much just as toothless up front.
We did see better performances from O’Shea and Esteve improved us too. Muric and Cullen coming back also did.

Generally we were just as bad and against the better teams we struggled after they sussed us out.

[RVclaret]

I don’t think the views have to be so binary. I think we can have a continuation on style to suit the players we are likely to retain whilst making additions to strengthen the team things we’re not good at. I would prefer a manager who likes to play attractive, possession based football, but that doesn’t have to be in the exact mould as Kompany, and the players we have should have the skill set and attributes to adapt to different systems. I don’t think anybody wants us to sign two big centre forwards and pump the ball long, but there are more than two ways of playing.

Couple of other points, I don’t think Moyes would be a win at all costs manager. I expect he has the ability and knowledge to set his team up to play in an expansive way. Obviously for a West Ham, in order to over achieve in terms of league position he recognised that a more pragmatic approach would fare better, and he was proven right.

I disagree entirely that we looked like a very competitive PL side towards the end. We generally flattered to deceive. Scoring goals and preventing goals conceded are the two fundamentals of football at any level, and we didn’t get either close to right. Everything that happened in between gave people, and probably the players and staff, an false belief that we were competitive, whereas the opposition were always more than happy for us to pass the ball around from side to side knowing that a) we won’t score, and b) they will.

You are right, there are other views including a mix albeit they seem to be the two main categories. Sorry but Moyes has shown nothing in his managerial career to suggest his style is anything ‘expansive’, he signed Fellaini at United as an example. He had Paqueta, Kudus and Bowen yet regularly got outplayed most games (including by us for around 120 minutes). I don’t agree that all players could just adapt to his (or someone similar’s) style and it would be another huge learning curve for the squad.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the final point, we looked a decent team at Chelsea and United, to name a couple, and one which was working hard. I was at Spurs and there was no lack of work rate, we were just beaten by a far better team, but it took until the 81st minute. There were never any real hidings all season, Arsenal/Chelsea at home 2nd half perhaps the only ones? Again not the sign of a team that was absolutely miles off it in my view.

I’m just intrigued that Bellamy was set to leave the club (because of Kompany), didn’t want to go to Bayern with Kompany, has been given the ‘temp’ role by the club and apparently has major support of the players. Don’t you at least find that curious?

[Rileybobs]

You are right, there are other views including a mix albeit they seem to be the two main categories. Sorry but Moyes has shown nothing in his managerial career to suggest his style is anything ‘expansive’, he signed Fellaini at United as an example. He had Paqueta, Kudus and Bowen yet regularly got outplayed most games (including by us for around 120 minutes). I don’t agree that all players could just adapt to his (or someone similar’s) style and it would be another huge learning curve for the squad.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the final point, we looked a decent team at Chelsea and United, to name a couple, and one which was working hard. I was at Spurs and there was no lack of work rate, we were just beaten by a far better team, but it took until the 81st minute. There were never any real hidings all season, Arsenal/Chelsea at home 2nd half perhaps the only ones? Again not the sign of a team that was absolutely miles off it in my view.

I’m just intrigued that Bellamy was set to leave the club (because of Kompany), didn’t want to go to Bayern with Kompany, has been given the ‘temp’ role by the club and apparently has major support of the players. Don’t you at least find that curious?

I was at Chelsea, and to be honest, we could easily have been a few goals down at half time but for poor finishing and some good saves. The narrative would have been different then. We did dig in in the second half and showed some character. Man U were dreadful and we did play v well but still gave a goal away and missed lots of good chances.

Yes it is definitely curious but I don’t quite trust the motives of players who have failed wanting certain coach to stay on.

[Quickenthetempo]

It’s crazy that as soon as Bellamy and Jackson where announced in the interim that they were the masterminds to the championship winning team and last season they had no say and it was solely on Kompany hahaha.

Fans don’t want us to take a risk on a manager who hasnt managed in the champ or England before but would happily want Bellamy who has never been a manager before

Different fans will have different opinions.

And we have more fans than ever giving opinions online.

[daveisaclaret]

There weren't any real hidings last season? I guess you must have missed both Arsenal games, Spurs at home, Villa at home, Chelsea at home, Newcastle at home and Palace away to come up with that one

[123EasyasBFC]

There weren't any real hidings last season? I guess you must have missed both Arsenal games, Spurs at home, Villa at home, Chelsea at home, Newcastle at home and Palace away to come up with that one

City at home and Brentford away we got battered, 3-0 doesn’t look like a hiding but we were way off it

[123EasyasBFC]

Remember sammy Lee taking over Bolton after big Sam and getting called little Sam, that would be Bellamy

[Blyclaret]

There must be a reason Pace put Bellamy in temp charge.
My thinking is … he’s waiting to see who Leicester appoint. Cooper maybe was out first choice. If he dosent get the Leicester job then maybe he’s prepared to drop a division.

[RVclaret]

There weren't any real hidings last season? I guess you must have missed both Arsenal games, Spurs at home, Villa at home, Chelsea at home, Newcastle at home and Palace away to come up with that one

Arsenal away certainly wasn’t a hiding so I suggest it’s you who missed that one (I was at the Emirates btw). I mentioned Arsenal and Chelsea at home, but it seems you missed that too? Newcastle yeah fair enough we got that v wrong after 20 minutes. Palace was probably the worst performance of the season but still 3-0 and we had 10 men for half of it. Spurs and Villa I’d half accept, the former we played really well first half, the latter was tight until their third. There were no other defeats by a margin of 4 or more, which I would say are hidings.

I was at Chelsea, and to be honest, we could easily have been a few goals down at half time but for poor finishing and some good saves. The narrative would have been different then. We did dig in in the second half and showed some character. Man U were dreadful and we did play v well but still gave a goal away and missed lots of good chances.

Yes it is definitely curious but I don’t quite trust the motives of players who have failed wanting certain coach to stay on.

I think you are being overly harsh on the Chelsea game really. We had a good few chances first half too. That was one of Chelsea’s only games they failed to win in that last third of the season. There were obviously others, we should have beat Brighton if not for a bizarre Muric error and who knows what would have happened at Everton without his error and the refs error, but we were the better team first half.

[Pearcey]

I think Bellamy would be a disaster. I’d like a proper manager, just don’t know who!

[CrosspoolClarets]

Bellamy in temporary charge will mainly be to do with planning pre season, managing the backroom staff etc. These folk don’t get 6 weeks off. Who coordinates the analytical staff what preparation to do for championship teams? OK, many of these wider staff will report up to a different person but they will still need instruction from the coaching staff.

There may also be instances of players being on holiday but agents ringing in and trying to influence things like moves. The manager isn’t necessarily vital to deal with this but I bet would need to be consulted on occasion.

So I don’t read much into it.

[BurnleyPaul]

There isn’t many managers who go from number 2 to number 1 at the same club and end up successful

Tindle tried it at Bournemouth and it didn’t work
Shakespeare at Leicester and that didn’t work

Are two recent ones I remember

*cough* Jimmy Mullen *cough*

[123EasyasBFC]

*cough* Jimmy Mullen *cough*

Yes as I’ve said there isn’t many that’s not to say it doesn’t sometimes work but recent times have shown it doesn’t work

[groove]

I'd be happy with giving Bellamy a season. He knows who to build a squad around, and more importantly for me who to get rid of. That squad needs reducing drastically.

[Venkys4eva]

So fickle on here, apparently reading this Bellamy with jackson (whos track record is awful) is a fantastic choice while Frank Lampard would be a disaster. Im glad uptheclarets dont make managerial appointments.

[RVclaret]

I think you are being overly harsh on the Chelsea game really. We had a good few chances first half too. That was one of Chelsea’s only games they failed to win in that last third of the season. There were obviously others, we should have beat Brighton if not for a bizarre Muric error and who knows what would have happened at Everton without his error and the refs error, but we were the better team first half.

For my own curiosity, but why not share it, I just put together a rolling xG v xGA chart, to see if there was any marked improvement according to some underlying metrics (did we start creating better chances and conceding less chances). There was a marginal improvement from the start albeit not significant. Those last 3 games around the time of relegation show the large variance forming again. Data from FbRef.

[beddie]

There must be a reason Pace put Bellamy in temp charge.
My thinking is … he’s waiting to see who Leicester appoint. Cooper maybe was out first choice. If he dosent get the Leicester job then maybe he’s prepared to drop a division.

Won’t it be for a point of contact for the players. There'll no doubt be players still coming in for physio and rehab, training after injury etc. Even those players that don’t need to come in, holiday etc, it gives them somone to talk with should they require it. Just to add I don’t think Bellamy will get the job, he’s not high profile enough.

[Rileybobs]

For my own curiosity, but why not share it, I just put together a rolling xG v xGA chart, to see if there was any marked improvement according to some underlying metrics (did we start creating better chances and conceding less chances). There was a marginal improvement from the start albeit not significant. Those last 3 games around the time of relegation show the large variance forming again. Data from FbRef.

Quite likely that you’d see a very close correlation if you were to plot these lines against one showing the league position of the opposition.

[boyyanno]

Bellamy is the last person I would want in charge of us. It would be an awful appointment.

I'm not sure how anyone can criticise actual managers like Moyes and Lampard and then say they'd take Bellamy- plus the guy is a bully and a d**k to boot.

I file him in the same category as Barton pre his Internet meltdown. Wether he has the ability to pass somthing on to the players may be the case- he was a good player- but he's got no experience as a manager and he's not the type of character you want at the top of things in my opinion. Out of any of the possible appointments we've been linked with this is the only one I'd struggle to support.

[Wokingclaret]

For my own curiosity, but why not share it, I just put together a rolling xG v xGA chart, to see if there was any marked improvement according to some underlying metrics (did we start creating better chances and conceding less chances). There was a marginal improvement from the start albeit not significant. Those last 3 games around the time of relegation show the large variance forming again. Data from FbRef.

Thanks, RV don't understand it, however, looks more like my Blood Pressure table whilst watching these games

[helmclaret]

Bellamy is the last person I would want in charge of us. It would be an awful appointment.

I'm not sure how anyone can criticise actual managers like Moyes and Lampard and then say they'd take Bellamy- plus the guy is a bully and a d**k to boot.

I file him in the same category as Barton pre his Internet meltdown. Wether he has the ability to pass somthing on to the players may be the case- he was a good player- but he's got no experience as a manager and he's not the type of character you want at the top of things in my opinion. Out of any of the possible appointments we've been linked with this is the only one I'd struggle to support.

Who has he bullied?

[dougcollins]

For my own curiosity, but why not share it, I just put together a rolling xG v xGA chart, to see if there was any marked improvement according to some underlying metrics (did we start creating better chances and conceding less chances). There was a marginal improvement from the start albeit not significant. Those last 3 games around the time of relegation show the large variance forming again. Data from FbRef.

What's the horizontal axis -weeks?

[RVclaret]

What's the horizontal axis -weeks?

Game number.

Quite likely that you’d see a very close correlation if you were to plot these lines against one showing the league position of the opposition.

It’s a 5 match rolling average to try and reduce that effect but I’ll certainly try it later!

[daveisaclaret]

Who has he bullied?

Kids at Cardiff

[Swizzlestick]

I don’t think there’s much in the Nixon story, seems a bit of filler. Hope so anyway because it would be an awful decision to appoint Bellamy.

[mdd2]

Mere admonishment for poor behaviour ranks as bullying these days so I am always sceptical about the term in 2024 and for sometime in the past.

[Gordaleman]

I honestly don't know why there is so much anti Bellamy / Jackson sentiment on here. I'm not suggesting that they would be the best possible appointment but at least they know the players very well and will know who to try and keep and the ones we need to part with. Jackson did very well in the few games he was given and he certainly seemed to have the dressing room with him. I don't think you could say that about Lampard with his three short term appointments.

Alan Pace seems obsessed with appointing a big name if we are to believe what the media is saying. I'm not sure that that is true but we will no doubt find out quite soon. I'll back whoever is appointed until such time as he proves himself one way or the other.

[DCWat]

I honestly don't know why there is so much anti Bellamy / Jackson sentiment on here. I'm not suggesting that they would be the best possible appointment but at least they know the players very well and will know who to try and keep and the ones we need to part with. Jackson did very well in the few games he was given and he certainly seemed to have the dressing room with him. I don't think you could say that about Lampard with his three short term appointments.

Alan Pace seems obsessed with appointing a big name if we are to believe what the media is saying. I'm not sure that that is true but we will no doubt find out quite soon. I'll back whoever is appointed until such time as he proves himself one way or the other.

Did Jackson do very well in the few games he was given? A slight new manager bounce followed by more dross is my memory of it.

The new manager, whoever it may be, has to give us the greatest chance of promotion. Fail on that for a season or two and we could be in trouble.

There must be better options than Bellamy and Jackson!!

[Spike]

If we went down this route then we would need a Director of Football, as there is no way Bellamy and Jackson would be able to deal with all the player recruitment in and out

Moyes, Bellamy , Jackson

[Hapag Lloyd]

I honestly don't know why there is so much anti Bellamy / Jackson sentiment on here.

One, we’re led to believe, can only manage a 3 day week the other is a failed lower league manager and both were part of a disastrous campaign last season.

[boyyanno]

Mere admonishment for poor behaviour ranks as bullying these days so I am always sceptical about the term in 2024 and for sometime in the past.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... estigation

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/craig- ... tack-story

These are not just poor behaviour are they? And this is just what has been reported on.

[FeedTheArf]

I don’t think there’s much in the Nixon story, seems a bit of filler. Hope so anyway because it would be an awful decision to appoint Bellamy.

I think there’s next to nothing in the Nixon story. He’s in temporary charge so it’s an easy headline to say he’s got a shot at the full time job. Of course he does. The owners know what they’re getting. And it’s for that reason I hope they see sense and get someone with experience because trimming this squad down to a somewhat manageable level both from a financial and playing perspective is going to need someone who has a decent amount of experience as a number one.

[JimmyRobbo]

I wonder if the great support is caused by the lack of desirable alternatiives.

Perhaps in 12 months from now, we may find one comes available. Who knows. I just know that whoever gets the gig will have a reasonable chance provided fans and players are on board.

[ClaretTony]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you but,
Bellamy and Jackson have decided not to follow Kompany - ask yourself why

Or maybe Bellamy and Jackson were never given the opportunity to follow Kompany

[mdd2]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... estigation

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/craig- ... tack-story

These are not just poor behaviour are they? And this is just what has been reported on.

I think the sky sports item says it all and lends itself to what I have been saying

"I have probably relied too much on my own life experiences playing under some of the best coaches in the world rather than assessing the sensitivities of a new generation of players.

and I emphasise the sensitivities of a new generation of players.
There is bullying physical and sexual abuse and there are mardarses who cant cope with discipline
Sometimes hard to disentangle in today's world.
By today's standards I must have been bullied.
I call it being disciplined in how to behave
Bellamy may be a loose cannon i dont know but what i do know from my work experience is that today's bully was sometimes yester years mentor not the tormentor they are sometimes painted today.
Whatever the truth Craig Bellamy is now a bully in the footballing world.

[mdd2]

Or maybe Bellamy and Jackson were never given the opportunity to follow Kompany

Although in some of the early posts on this Mike Jackson was said to be joining VK but not Bellamy.

[Wokingclaret]

I think the sky sports item says it all and lends itself to what I have been saying

"I have probably relied too much on my own life experiences playing under some of the best coaches in the world rather than assessing the sensitivities of a new generation of players.

and I emphasise the sensitivities of a new generation of players.
There is bullying physical and sexual abuse and there are mardarses who cant cope with discipline
Sometimes hard to disentangle in today's world.
By today's standards I must have been bullied.
I call it being disciplined in how to behave
Bellamy may be a loose cannon i dont know but what i do know from my work experience is that today's bully was sometimes yester years mentor not the tormentor they are sometimes painted today.
Whatever the truth Craig Bellamy is now a bully in the footballing world.

Maybe that's why he is a calmer Craig Bellamy now......

[ClaretTony]

Although in some of the early posts on this Mike Jackson was said to be joining VK but not Bellamy.

Which is not the case - came from a journalist early in the story but it was not an option for Jackson, not Bellamy.

[claret10]

If player's opinion is taken into account, I'd be shocked if they went with Bellamy

[dougcollins]

Game number.

So we'd sorted it all by Wolves away (despite losing) but then it all went awry again?

[bumba]

Lampards coaching the England team for soccer aid next Sunday so presume he'll be tied up with that all week, maybe that's why we've got a delay

[Vincent'sCap]

Anyone in the world,except Lampard will do

[boyyanno]

I think the sky sports item says it all and lends itself to what I have been saying

"I have probably relied too much on my own life experiences playing under some of the best coaches in the world rather than assessing the sensitivities of a new generation of players.

and I emphasise the sensitivities of a new generation of players.
There is bullying physical and sexual abuse and there are mardarses who cant cope with discipline
Sometimes hard to disentangle in today's world.
By today's standards I must have been bullied.
I call it being disciplined in how to behave
Bellamy may be a loose cannon i dont know but what i do know from my work experience is that today's bully was sometimes yester years mentor not the tormentor they are sometimes painted today.
Whatever the truth Craig Bellamy is now a bully in the footballing world.

To be fair I used that link just to show Bellamy had begrudgingly acknowledged it happened incase some said it hadn't.

The reality is he's denied and maintained any intentional wrongdoing despite concerns being found in the investigation- I wouldn't take his mitigating statement as truth of what actually happened.

[morninbob]

Lampards kids are 5 and 2, can't see him being able to offer the commitment that is needed.