England vs Iceland

[spt_claret]

I personally (and strongly) believe a lot of it is the misuse/overuse of data and over coaching of youngsters. The Pep obsession has to stop - that's for damn sure.

As someone who works in data yet has a background in social science /soft skills I'd very much class it as a misuse not overuse. Data is invaluable but lots of people don't understand it or think that everything is either directly quantifiable or not worth bothering with. No amount of "On a scale of 1-5 how much would you describe you as X" can actually quantify the mentality and personality elements of anything, really, let alone sport. And there's so many unquantifiable skills in football - motivational strategy, vision, bottle, resilience, capability under pressure, etc.
The problem is a lot of the best analysts tend to not know much outside of their area of mathematics, and the more rounded analysts aren't always as good at the analytics or can be overconfident. I'm definitely in the "less able generalist" bracket, but I'd like to think I'm at least aware of my limitations. It's such a booming part of sport that many aren't.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

This is baaaaaaaadddd!

[ISpeds00]

Been absolutely bossed for the past 15/20 mins
its disgusting

[addisclaret]

Can't get the ball off them now

[THEWELLERNUT70]

1 shot on target against Iceland approaching the last 10 minutes, absolutely unacceptable!

[CoolClaret]

As someone who works in data yet has a background in social science /soft skills I'd very much class it as a misuse not overuse. Data is invaluable but lots of people don't understand it or think that everything is either directly quantifiable or not worth bothering with. No amount of "On a scale of 1-5 how much would you describe you as X" can actually quantify the mentality and personality elements of anything, really, let alone sport. And there's so many unquantifiable skills in football - motivational strategy, vision, bottle, resilience, capability under pressure, etc.
The problem is a lot of the best analysts tend to not know much outside of their area of mathematics, and the more rounded analysts aren't always as good at the analytics or can be overconfident. I'm definitely in the "less able generalist" bracket, but I'd like to think I'm at least aware of my limitations. It's such a booming part of sport that many aren't.

Definitely - quick example I'll give though is that still football is a team game, played with 11 players.

Not every single player can score/assist/tackle 100%/pass 100% bla bla every single game, or you'd win every week 10 - 0 or whatever. Seems like some of the modelling used tries to simplify a dynamic game that as you say, has certain metrics that simply aren't quantifiable.. relationships/understanding/cohesion between players to add to those that you listed.

[Rowls]

England have ONE shot on target so far tonight.

[CoolClaret]

How many of this squad get in the '98 world cup squad or the '04 euros?
Not many if any.
The defending has been absolutely laughable

They're nowhere near for me. I'd say Kane and Bellingham yes, the rest? Nah, no chance.

[bumba]

I'd love to watch them train and see what Southgate coaches them.
He could have started Walker as a centre back tonight and started Trent at right back to have an extra man forward with ability on the ball

[aclaretinstevenage]

Shankly famously said "football is a simple game, it's the players that make it difficult" which was true at the time.

Now it seems it's the coaches that make it difficult.......certainly difficult to watch anyway.

Thank goodness of the Scotland game on the laptop.

[CoolClaret]

I'd love to watch them train and see what Southgate coaches them.
He could have started Walker as a centre back tonight and started Trent at right back to have an extra man forward with ability on the ball

That's exactly how I'd have lined them up as well, 3 at the back in possession, with Walker splitting right.

[gandhisflipflop]

They're nowhere near for me. I'd say Kane and Bellingham yes, the rest? Nah, no chance.

Foden would.

[karatekid]

I hope Iceland win. Their team has a Burnley player involved. Come on you Fridges.

And a Blackburn player

[ElectroClaret]

England have ONE shot on target so far tonight.

Yep.
Ridiculously bad and there are no excuses for that.

[CoolClaret]

Foden would.

Not for me mate. Don't think he's a big game player, very gifted, not denying that.

[gandhisflipflop]

Not for me mate. Don't think he's a big game player, very gifted, not denying that.

We took Darren Anderton in 98, he be in over him.

[Murger]

Can Safegate not be sacked before the tournament?

[Rowls]

How many of this squad get in the '98 world cup squad or the '04 euros?
Not many if any.
The defending has been absolutely laughable

'98 Squad is very underrated. We outplayed Argentine with 10 men and were unlucky to go out on penalties. If we'd had a decent ref who'd officiated properly Beckham wouldn't have got sent off - it was a reaction to the countless unpunished fouls we were subjected to that night.

Anyway, I think the following current players are good enough for that squad or better:

John Stones
Kyle Walker
Bakayo Saka
Phil Foden
Declan Rice
Harry Kane
Jude Bellingham

Kobbie Mainoo is still a bit on an unknown quantity. As good as England were as an all-round unit in '98 the central midfield of Ince and Batty aren't anywhere near England's best ever.

The point is, this group of players is as good a pick as we've had for many years. The players are good enough to challenge. What they need is a good manager.

[CoolClaret]

We took Darren Anderton in 98, he be in over him.

I'll concede there, I was thinking more the sort of starting XIs but yes, definitely Foden over Anderton.

[Silkyskills1]

Beckham got sent off quite rightly for retaliation.

[bumba]

That's exactly how I'd have lined them up as well, 3 at the back in possession, with Walker splitting right.

After watching Trippier at left back I think that's how if go with it until Shaw was fit, Trent gives us something extra when used correctly, play Walker as a centre back with Gomez the other side of Stones and those three stay back at all times

[gandhisflipflop]

I wish we had taken gazza in 98, maybe that Argentina game would have been different although there was nothing wrong with Sol Campbells goal which was disallowed

[bumba]

'98 Squad is very underrated. We outplayed Argentine with 10 men and were unlucky to go out on penalties. If we'd had a decent ref who'd officiated properly Beckham wouldn't have got sent off - it was a reaction to the countless unpunished fouls we were subjected to that night.

Anyway, I think the following current players are good enough for that squad or better:

John Stones
Kyle Walker
Bakayo Saka
Phil Foden
Declan Rice
Harry Kane
Jude Bellingham

Kobbie Mainoo is still a bit on an unknown quantity. As good as England were as an all-round unit in '98 the central midfield of Ince and Batty aren't anywhere near England's best ever.

The point is, this group of players is as good a pick as we've had for many years. The players are good enough to challenge. What they need is a good manager.

Squad yes starting 11 not all of them.

We've no chance of a good manager this euros another generation wasted

[mikeS]

Well played Iceland.
A well organised, well fought and well earned victory.

[Rileybobs]

Awful second half performance which demonstrates that a lot of our second choice players just aren’t good enough. Still coming home innit

[Jel]

Well that's 90 minutes of my life wasted

[Burnley1989]

As someone who works in data yet has a background in social science /soft skills I'd very much class it as a misuse not overuse. Data is invaluable but lots of people don't understand it or think that everything is either directly quantifiable or not worth bothering with. No amount of "On a scale of 1-5 how much would you describe you as X" can actually quantify the mentality and personality elements of anything, really, let alone sport. And there's so many unquantifiable skills in football - motivational strategy, vision, bottle, resilience, capability under pressure, etc.
The problem is a lot of the best analysts tend to not know much outside of their area of mathematics, and the more rounded analysts aren't always as good at the analytics or can be overconfident. I'm definitely in the "less able generalist" bracket, but I'd like to think I'm at least aware of my limitations. It's such a booming part of sport that many aren't.

My kind of person.

Data is great but only if you understand it properly

[ISpeds00]

boooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[taio]

Weary from start to finish.

[Rileybobs]

Well played Iceland.
A well organised, well fought and well earned victory.

Yes, Iceland were very good and could, and possibly should have got a second.

[Casper2]

Not for me mate. Don't think he's a big game player, very gifted, not denying that.

Foden with 6 premier league winners medals and 2 fa cup winners medals not a big game player , Jesus wept.

[addisclaret]

That was a dreadful watch but I'm proud of my stamina in staying with it for the full game.

[ElectroClaret]

There are no words....

[RVclaret]

Well tonight has made me re think the team that should start next week. Get Trent in at right back and Trippier as far away from left back as possible.

[Taffy on the wing]

Proud moment for JGB........Southgate is useless!

[RVclaret]

Foden with 6 premier league winners medals and 2 fa cup winners medals not a big game player , Jesus wept.

mental shout. Seen him score a screamer at the Bernabau a month back. Scored 2 in the title decider the other week.

[boatshed bill]

I feel a little bit sad watching JBG knowing he isn't a Burnley player anymore.

Same here, he's a good bloke and I wish him well wherever he goes.

[Silkyskills1]

Great team

Were they unlucky? Haven't watched international football for a long time.

[Vegas Claret]

take a bunch of players who play in the fastest, most intense league in the world and play at a snails pace. Joy

[boatshed bill]

Foden with 6 premier league winners medals and 2 fa cup winners medals not a big game player , Jesus wept.

So what has he done tonight?

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Wish Terry Venables could be resurrected or someone that sets up his team like him. Southgate’s non ball bores me to tears.

[Rileybobs]

Well tonight has made me re think the team that should start next week. Get Trent in at right back and Trippier as far away from left back as possible.

Trippier was bad. My concern with TAA is that he always looks for the Hollywood pass - which he is of course capable of. Maybe we need that more direct option, but I think it’s possibly better coming from the bench.

[pauliopaulio]

It’s all part of the grand plan to dampen expectations.

[boatshed bill]

Were they unlucky? Haven't watched international football for a long time.

What, Iceland unlucky? Yes, they could have had 2

[CoolClaret]

Foden with 6 premier league winners medals and 2 fa cup winners medals not a big game player , Jesus wept.

I think he's over rated. Started to emerge more recently but you can hardly say he is the water carrier for City can you? It's not like Wazza almost doing it single handedly at times for United.

[Sproggy]

Well tonight has made me re think the team that should start next week. Get Trent in at right back and Trippier as far away from left back as possible.

Not sure what Trent was thinking when he came on. Kept getting the ball forward quickly and taking chances. Hopefully Gareth will coach that out of him in the next 7 days. Slow it down and move it sideways lad.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Them lads have certainly given Southgate a lot to think about.

Foden was truly awful in that game. Bellingham surely has the number 10 spot nailed down after that.

Trippier was shocking. Wouldn’t be surprised if Southgate drops him for the opener now.

Similar with Gordon, plenty of pundits were raving about him before tonight. I think it’s already looking like a mistake leaving Grealish at home

[ElectroClaret]

Foden is not overrated.

[Casper2]

So what has he done tonight?

The big game friendly against Iceland, seriously

[Winstonswhite]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but Southgate is not the problem. These players need to step up. The chances we created, in the past, would have been finished off.