Next seasons shirt sponsor.

[daveisaclaret]

Is there no irony in people being outraged at the club taking money of a gambling company but will still pay to watch games in the Skybet Championship. Or do morals only stretch part way ?

The idea that you can find a way people who disagree with gambling sponsorship can be painted as hypocrites and therefore their points aren't valid is childish, stupid and pointless.

[daveisaclaret]

It's a complex issue defining a community football club. I'd be interested in the moral guidelines you would expect one to follow to comply.

In terms of gambling sponsorship the moral guidelines would be "gambling sponsorship is harmful and a community football club should not accept it"

[ŽižkovClaret]

In terms of gambling sponsorship the moral guidelines would be "gambling sponsorship is harmful and a community football club should not accept it"

The way i see it, albeit simplified, there are 2 options:

3m Gambling sponsor - decent chunk in the coffers, some held noses.

1.5m non gambling sponsor - Wholesome community club status maintained, fuzzy feelings in tummies, BFCITC projects mothballed due to 1.5m shortfall

Pick one

[daveisaclaret]

The way i see it, albeit simplified, there are 2 options:

3m Gambling sponsor - decent chunk in the coffers, some held noses.

1.5m non gambling sponsor - Wholesome community club status maintained, fuzzy feelings in tummies, BFCITC projects mothballed due to 1.5m shortfall

Pick one

This is just a made up scenario.

[ŽižkovClaret]

This is just a made up scenario.

Of course its based on a lot of assumptions, but its not a million miles away from the decisions that had to be made at board level i suspect

[daveisaclaret]

Of course its based on a lot of assumptions, but its not a million miles away from the decisions that had to be made at board level i suspect

Sorry, I don't want to be rude but when you are saying "the way I see it" and "I suspect" what you mean is you've made something up. It is frivolous to make things up and expect others to base their views on it.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Sorry, I don't want to be rude but when you are saying "the way I see it" and "I suspect" what you mean is you've made something up. It is frivolous to make things up and expect others to base their views on it.

Its called hypothesising, Dave. Literally everyone on this thread is doing so, as they don't have access to the facts and figures at board level.

[dandeclaret]

Football problems...

Racism, Sexism, misogyny, multiple rape and sexual abuse cases, huge amounts of bribery and corruption, slavery and trafficking of footballers from 3rd world countries, football holliganism threatening people in town centres, large scale disorder where people get murdered, increase in domestic abuse aligned to football results for clubs and international matches.

And a legitimate, well regulated leisure activity for millions is where people draw the line.

Don't talk to me about your morals, or community clubs, cos they're flakey at best, or else you'd have walked away from this sport a long time ago.

[daveisaclaret]

Football problems...

Racism, Sexism, misogyny, multiple rape and sexual abuse cases, huge amounts of bribery and corruption, slavery and trafficking of footballers from 3rd world countries, football holliganism threatening people in town centres, large scale disorder where people get murdered, increase in domestic abuse aligned to football results for clubs and international matches.

And a legitimate, well regulated leisure activity for millions is where people draw the line.

Don't talk to me about your morals, or community clubs, cos they're flakey at best, or else you'd have walked away from this sport a long time ago.

Think this is one of the oddest cases of whataboutery I've ever seen. I would not expect BFC to plaster an endorsement of rape or bribery on the front of the shirt.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Football problems...

Racism, Sexism, misogyny, multiple rape and sexual abuse cases, huge amounts of bribery and corruption, slavery and trafficking of footballers from 3rd world countries, football holliganism threatening people in town centres, large scale disorder where people get murdered, increase in domestic abuse aligned to football results for clubs and international matches.

And a legitimate, well regulated leisure activity for millions is where people draw the line.

Don't talk to me about your morals, or community clubs, cos they're flakey at best, or else you'd have walked away from this sport a long time ago.

You will be told you are childish soon, still if it makes someone feel better about themselves it is a small price to pay

[dandeclaret]

Think this is one of the oddest cases of whataboutery I've ever seen. I would not expect BFC to plaster an endorsement of rape or bribery on the front of the shirt.

So so narrow. you do support a sport where clubs do all they can to keep their sexual abusers and misbehavers as assets.

Doing the right thing, is different to being seen to do the right thing. One is hard, one is easy.

[daveisaclaret]

So so narrow. you do support a sport where clubs do all they can to keep their sexual abusers and misbehavers as assets.

Doing the right thing, is different to being seen to do the right thing. One is hard, one is easy.

I am not aware of any sexual abusers being protected by BFC?

[dandeclaret]

I am not aware of any sexual abusers being protected by BFC?

Football has regularly - Criminal conviction wise - Burnley has stood by multiple drink drivers for many years. Add that to the football problems line.

[daveisaclaret]

Football has regularly - Criminal conviction wise - Burnley has stood by multiple drink drivers for many years. Add that to the football problems line.

I don't support football, I support Burnley.

My personal feeling is drink driving should see you out the door, but I don't think the instances of drink driving by Burnley players are remotely comparable to the list you've written.

[ŽižkovClaret]

I don't support football, I support Burnley.

My personal feeling is drink driving should see you out the door, but I don't think the instances of drink driving by Burnley players are remotely comparable to the list you've written.

Only by the sheer luck that meant they didn't hit some poor sod while ****** up behind the wheel......

[dandeclaret]

I don't support football, I support Burnley.

My personal feeling is drink driving should see you out the door, but I don't think the instances of drink driving by Burnley players are remotely comparable to the list you've written.

I probably missed you expressing regularly that the club should be taking action to remove Ashley Barnes (as the latest player as far as I recall) from the community club, but I'm sure it's out there if I look hard enough right? And fans with their whiter than white morals, definitely didn't and don't chant his name now. As I said, morals that are at best flakey. Everybody has their things they will tolerate that others find intolerable. It always amazes me how often fans will turn the blind eye to stuff. A good amount of the above points are things that are linked to Burnley Football Club, through the actions of players, or fans - eg, the comminity it represents.

[daveisaclaret]

I probably missed you expressing regularly that the club should be taking action to remove Ashley Barnes (as the latest player as far as I recall) from the community club, but I'm sure it's out there if I look hard enough right? And fans with their whiter than white morals, definitely didn't and don't chant his name now. As I said, morals that are at best flakey. Everybody has their things they will tolerate that others find intolerable. It always amazes me how often fans will turn the blind eye to stuff. A good amount of the above points are things that are linked to Burnley Football Club, through the actions of players, or fans - eg, the comminity it represents.

viewtopic.php?t=54985&start=400

You can see my reaction there. If you feel I didn't express it regularly enough and therefore I can have no view on gambling sponsorship, I guess that's your own business. I doubt anybody would have appreciated it if I was posting every week about it.

[Jacko]

I think there's two issues here:

1. One's stance on gambling sponsors as a rule.
2. The type of gambling company you take on as a sponsor.

I completely appreciate that some have a view that they don't like any association with gambling firms - it's an argument with merit. However, I think the bigger issue here is #2. There's a difference between, say, a UK based long established firm the likes of which may have retail spaces in our high streets and, on the other hand, companies who are very different, which characterises the 'Asian-facing' ones we've seen a lot of in English football. Some of these have very serious issues.

The journalist Philippe Auclair is among those who have done great investigative work into TGP linked 'White Label' operators. Lots of reporting out there for those interested.

Serious questions to answer, I think.

[ŽižkovClaret]

It just seems to me that you're likely to have about as much luck persuading a local corner shop to stop selling cigs as you are Burnley FC to not take a gambling sponsor.

Its a matter for legislation pure and simple.

[Boss Hogg]

There are far more concerning moral issues in football than gambling advertising. Getafe allowing a woman abuser to play for them is one of them. I don’t know how anyone can support them. This doesn’t just affect a minority but it is sending the wrong message to all female supporters of all football clubs.

[Jacko]

It just seems to me that you're likely to have about as much luck persuading a local corner shop to stop selling cigs as you are Burnley FC to not take a gambling sponsor.

Its a matter for legislation pure and simple.

I have a lot of sympathy with this: it's for government to set the framework. However, I don't think this completely removes the obligation from everyone else. There is, at the very least, a question of due diligence when considering partner organisations. Beyond that, there are broader questions of reputation, efficacy, etc before you even reach moral judgments.

I happen to think that businesses* should have capacity for value judgements, but I also thought that our owners had said the same thing, so hardly unfair for people to hold them to that.



*I don't think football clubs should be classed purely as businesses, but that's a wider point.

[Jacko]

There are far more concerning moral issues in football than gambling advertising. Getafe allowing a woman abuser to play for them is one of them. I don’t know how anyone can support them. This doesn’t just affect a minority but it is sending the wrong message to all female supporters of all football clubs.

It's not either or though, is it.

[ŽižkovClaret]

I have a lot of sympathy with this: it's for government to set the framework. However, I don't think this completely removes the obligation from everyone else. There is, at the very least, a question of due diligence when considering partner organisations. Beyond that, there are broader questions of reputation, efficacy, etc before you even reach moral judgments.

I happen to think that businesses* should have capacity for value judgements, but I also thought that our owners had said the same thing, so hardly unfair for people to hold them to that.



*I don't think football clubs should be classed purely as businesses, but that's a wider point.

Aye, i mean Pace even said he'd prefer non-gambling sponsorship, but his first loyalty is to the balance sheet, within legal bounds.

[Firthy]

If it's good enough for Mormons it's good enough for me. I personally haven't got a problem with any form of sponsorship as long as it's legal and brings in the most money. I understand some peoples feelings on this but where do you draw the line. Ban smoking outside the ground, ban the sale of acachol at the ground because tobacco and alcahol are addictive.

I'm very old fashioned and believe that people need to be responsible for their own choices. I don't believe that a sponsor on a football shirt will turn anyone into a gambling addict.

[TPClaret]

We had hollands pies. How many fat people are there walking about

[Chester Perry]

Some really silly understanding of how sponsorships/marketing works on this page.

Bookmakers are aiming to create an environment where gambling is seen as an integral part of the football experience, similar to how betting has become deeply associated with horse racing. Their goal is to make placing a bet as routine as attending a match.

For some people that's fine, they can ignore it or control themselves but for others, constant exposure to gambling promotions will slowly erode their willpower and self-control. It's not a simple matter of saying yes or no once - it's a continuous challenge that depletes their resistance over time until they eventually give in.

Gambling sponsorship is different than typical product sponsorship as well. It exploits impulsivity and the allure of quick financial gain... Which, people are needing now more than ever with the cost of living.

The more involved everyone gets, the more money the bookies make.

Marketing and advertisements absolutely work or they wouldn't bother doing it. Test your self now even, think of a soft drink you probably think 'CocaCola' first and think of a tin of beans and you'll probably think of 'Heinz'.

the real misunderstanding is what our club (and others) are complicit in doing with these 'white label' betting operations. These sites are often set up to directly target markets where betting is illegal, operations in markets where betting is not illegal is in the main an incidental activity. This is before you consider that the money/true ownership for these operations comes from questionable (often historically criminal sources). then we have the very concerning issue of how some of these operations are run out in South East Asia - issues of trafficking and enslavement have been highlighted with compounds linked to recent sponsors - all of this has been faithfully documented on the MMT. as for TGP themselves, there are still ongoing legal investigations by the Isle of Man authorities - again documented on the MMT

This might be one for ChesterPerry, but does anyone have a sense of how much the deal is likely to be for? My initial reaction for all the, relatively unheard of in the UK, gambling sponsors we've had, and the Visit Detroit thing, is "Can they really be paying all that much? Is it really worth it?"

A record Championship financial deal for us, apparently. Which is obviously good news.

So, to my knowledge Burnley FC's record shirt sponsorship deal in the Championship is circa £1m from Oak Furniture Land. Obviously, to beat that doesn't take much more. This would, however, be the first time under the new ownership that a record deal has been agreed within a particular division - I have been critical of the ALK/VSL commercial performance at the club (it has fallen some way behind what the previous owner group achieved. I will concede that some of the sponsorship deal have been about building awareness - Classic Football Shirts and Dude Perfect but still cannot get my head around the very strange EMA one

One of the supporters of on FAB reckon it will bring in millions (2 year deal though) and betting sponsors still allowed in the championship.

It is worth noting that two years of a little over £1m a year is quite literally a deal worth £millions

[Foshiznik]

Plenty of bedwetting on both sides, just like last year, the year before that…

[Pickles]

Doesn't matter what the shirt looks like now. Will be ruined with that shite on the front of it.

[GetIntoEm]

I do wonder if some people would prefer say BAE Systems as sponsor?

Why would that be an issue?

[KernowHouseClaret]

Why would that be an issue?

Arms, Israel, Palestine, spring to mind, to name a few

[ClaretInLeeds]

Arms, Israel, Palestine, spring to mind, to name a few

[123EasyasBFC]

Is a shame there isn’t the same energy on alcohol and football as there is with gambling sponsors

[Rileybobs]

Is a shame there isn’t the same energy on alcohol and football as there is with gambling sponsors

What’s the issue with alcohol and football?

[123EasyasBFC]

What’s the issue with alcohol and football?

Same issue as gambling in my personal experience, people often reference seeing what affects gambling on football has one people. I have seen the effects on what drinking at football games and drinking associated with football can do to people.

So I’m completely fine with people not wanting gambling sponsors but it’s strange how alcohol is seemed to not be a problem.

Just my opinion

[Rileybobs]

Same issue as gambling in my personal experience, people often reference seeing what affects gambling on football has one people. I have seen the effects on what drinking at football games and drinking associated with football can do to people.

So I’m completely fine with people not wanting gambling sponsors but it’s strange how alcohol is seemed to not be a problem.

Just my opinion

But there isn’t any alcohol sponsorship in football. There is a problem with alcohol in society in general, and with match-going football fans, but this hardly enabled or encouraged to any large degree by the clubs.

[Foshiznik]

Same issue as gambling in my personal experience, people often reference seeing what affects gambling on football has one people. I have seen the effects on what drinking at football games and drinking associated with football can do to people.

So I’m completely fine with people not wanting gambling sponsors but it’s strange how alcohol is seemed to not be a problem.

Just my opinion

What teams have alcohol shirt sponsors?

[Jamesy]

I do wonder if some people would prefer say BAE Systems as sponsor?

As if BAE systems would sponsor football teams? You just wanted to introduce this to the debate to suit an agenda.

[123EasyasBFC]

But there isn’t any alcohol sponsorship in football. There is a problem with alcohol in society in general, and with match-going football fans, but this hardly enabled or encouraged to any large degree by the clubs.

There is alcohol sponsorship on advertising boards and in every football ground in the country by the fact they serve it. Would you not say there’s a problem in society in gambling to? Isn’t having alcohol in the grounds or around the grounds a form of encouraging fans to drink?

Again I’m not saying we should accept gambling but I’m saying alcohol is equally if not more harmful to someone.

Would you not say the issue with gambling in football is with the league the fact they are sponsored by a betting company

[123EasyasBFC]

What teams have alcohol shirt sponsors?

The issue with gambling in football isn’t just about a shirt sponsor though is it? It’s the wider picture of advertising boards and leagues.

Equally with alcohol

[Rileybobs]

There is alcohol sponsorship on advertising boards and in every football ground in the country by the fact they serve it. Would you not say there’s a problem in society in gambling to? Isn’t having alcohol in the grounds or around the grounds a form of encouraging fans to drink?

Again I’m not saying we should accept gambling but I’m saying alcohol is equally if not more harmful to someone.

Would you not say the issue with gambling in football is with the league the fact they are sponsored by a betting company

I wasn’t even aware that alcohol advertising at football grounds was allowed, but perhaps I’m wrong.

I don’t think serving alcohol at football grounds is a particular issue seeing as the bars aren’t open for long enough for it to cause an issue and alcohol can’t be consumed in the stands. Obviously fans drinking to excess before and after games is a problem, but that shouldn’t prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy in moderation. But yes, alcohol is a bigger problem in society than gambling.

But surely you can see the difference between a sporting venue serving alcohol, and a club promoting a gambling company on their kits?

As for the league, again yes, this is more of an issue than shirt sponsorship in my view, but I’m not a paid up supporter of the league and have no affinity towards it.

[123EasyasBFC]

I wasn’t even aware that alcohol advertising at football grounds was allowed, but perhaps I’m wrong.

I don’t think serving alcohol at football grounds is a particular issue seeing as the bars aren’t open for long enough for it to cause an issue and alcohol can’t be consumed in the stands. Obviously fans drinking to excess before and after games is a problem, but that shouldn’t prevent everyone else from being able to enjoy in moderation. But yes, alcohol is a bigger problem in society than gambling.

But surely you can see the difference between a sporting venue serving alcohol, and a club promoting a gambling company on their kits?

As for the league, again yes, this is more of an issue than shirt sponsorship in my view, but I’m not a paid up supporter of the league and have no affinity towards it.

I’m not saying I can’t see the issue with gambling sponsored I’m saying nobody seems to have a problem with alcohol and their reasoning for not wanting gambling sponsors is the same heartache they have seen as what alcohol causes.

I don’t agree with the bars aren’t open long enough part personally because it doesn’t matter how long a bar is open for it to cause damage.

Wasn’t meaning to cause debate on it

[Rileybobs]

I’m not saying I can’t see the issue with gambling sponsored I’m saying nobody seems to have a problem with alcohol and their reasoning for not wanting gambling sponsors is the same heartache they have seen as what alcohol causes.

I don’t agree with the bars aren’t open long enough part personally because it doesn’t matter how long a bar is open for it to cause damage.

Wasn’t meaning to cause debate on it

I think plenty of people have a problem with alcohol in football which is why, in England, none of the competitions are sponsored by alcohol brands and none of the clubs have alcohol brands on their kits.

[wilks_bfc]

I can understand the “but what about alcohol in the game” comments, but the issue to me is simple - it’s all about accessibility.

If I’m sat at home watching a game and see an advert for alcohol, but I’ve none in the house I wouldn’t think about going out to get some but if I fancies making a bet, it’s easy enough to pick up the phone and make it in seconds

[Boss Hogg]

Heart Disease.2nd biggest killer in the UK. Let’s ban pies from the ground and adverts for Hollands Pies, Oddies and Farmhouse Biscuits.

[Stanbill05]

Heart Disease.2nd biggest killer in the UK. Let’s ban pies from the ground and adverts for Hollands Pies, Oddies and Farmhouse Biscuits.

I'd add all seater stadia into the mix. Sitting on your arse too much is a bigger problem than problem gambling and should be discouraged not enforced. Wish I had a fit bit in the umbarbar days..

While it's legal I'd take the gambling firm money like Pace. I suspect we can ill afford expensive virtue signalling that will achieve nothing but a warm glow. I'd sooner put it toward another young winger or even a player we could actually use.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Even shirt sponsorships can cause an argument on this site Jesus christ

[JohnMcGreal]

Just like with everything else businesses left to their own devices are incapable of doing the decent and moral thing and will always follow the money.

That's why it's the job of the government to regulate and prohibit certain activities that have a negative effect on public heath.

Unfortunately, the government is also incapable of doing the decent and moral thing and will also take the money every time.

So the aggressive advertising of this pernicious and grubby industry will continue unabated until a government with enough decency finds the will power to stop it.

With the incoming government's track record on taking donations from the gambling lobby, I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

It will be trebles all round at the bookies.

[Firthy]

Just like with everything else businesses left to their own devices are incapable of doing the decent and moral thing and will always follow the money.

That's why it's the job of the government to regulate and prohibit certain activities that have a negative effect on public heath.

Unfortunately, the government is also incapable of doing the decent and moral thing and will also take the money every time.

So the aggressive advertising of this pernicious and grubby industry will continue unabated until a government with enough decency finds the will power to stop it.

With the incoming government's track record on taking donations from the gambling lobby, I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

It will be trebles all round at the bookies.

Sorry but I totally disagree with you. It's all too easy for people these days to blame social media, the government, employer, businesses etc. People need to be responsible for their own decisions and choices.

IMO the blame and compensation culture in todays society is one of the biggest problems out there.

[JohnMcGreal]

We have are rules and regulations in place across all sectors for a reason.

They're intended to curb some of the worst excesses of people's behaviour which, if left unchecked, could be predatory and exploitative and could lead to some serious negative outcomes.

I think the aggressive advertising of gambling in football is obscene and should be banned completely, on public health grounds.

Unfortunately, money talks, which means the gambling companies will continue to get what they want: more people gauded into signing up to their platforms, more people losing their money and ultimately enormous profits for them, at the expense of some very poor and vulnerable people.

It's a disgrace, in all honesty.

[giveusaB]

When does the ban on Gambling sponsorship come in and is it just for Premier league clubs?