Next manager

[gandhisflipflop]

But you are ignoring the pressures of the jobs

One took a side with less expectations to the play offs, so in essence had less to lose as they had been expected to struggle anyway, the other managed a side with huge expectations of promotion so arguably under a lot more pressure.

How many managers have taken that kind of a jump and failed?

[kentonclaret]

Parker was managing teams expected to win the league and finished 4th and 2nd. Corberan took over teams in the bottom half of the league (20th and 23rd) and took them to the play-offs.

One overachieved, one achieved par at best.

Parker was not managing a team expected to win the league when he took Fulham up by winning the play off final. Leeds managed by Bielsa were the favourites to win the league that season.

So Wrong yet again I’ m afraid.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Yeah agreed Boss Hogg - I'm not a fan at all of huge deals for managers - they've not the same sell-on value as a player. And it costs a fortune to get rid of them. I'm sure I heard some ridiculous figure linked with the sacking of Brian Laws and I think it was widely-reported that the Dyche (and staff) severance package was up towards £10m+.

[agreenwood]

Managers are just the same as players - success elsewhere doesn't GUARANTEE success at a new club. So many variables at play - will the manager settle, does he have the right environment, is the squad good enough to play his system etc.

Think of the number of players who have one good season and move elsewhere and flop. Managers are much the same.

It's going to be Parker, as a name I'm underwhelmed compared to the more 'illustrious' names we were linked with but the task is the same - 46 games to win enough points to get us promoted.

Every appointment is a risk/gamble/roll of the dice. The squad we have - on paper, which we don't play on - SHOULD be top two. So let's see what happens - if it's all gone to hell in a hand cart by November then we pot Parker and try and go again.

….and failure or underachievement elsewhere doesn’t mean they’ll never succeed again.

I’ve always found it odd that managers are rarely viewed as being in a profession where they can develop and improve.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Yeah absolutely mate works both way and I should have made that point.

I do think managers can develop and improve (and arguably we were witness to that with Dyche) especially in the modern game.

[Mattster]

And he'll be managing a team expecting to win the league this season

And as such play-offs would be an underperformance, right?

Parker's luck will run out, he's not convincingly got promotion on either occasion despite having significant playing squad advantage. Hopefully it doesn't run out with us but I don't consider the promotions he has, in the context of the teams he had, a great indicator of future success.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope someone quotes this or screenshots it in 10 months time and pokes fun at me, I really do. I don't think it will happen though.

[burnley007]

Parker was managing teams expected to win the league and finished 4th and 2nd. Corberan took over teams in the bottom half of the league (20th and 23rd) and took them to the play-offs.

One overachieved, one achieved par at best.

Thank you

I just lacked the energy required to explain this to people.

[Mattster]

Parker was not managing a team expected to win the league when he took Fulham up by winning the play off final. Leeds managed by Bielsa were the favourites to win the league that season.

So Wrong yet again I’ m afraid.

Was I, though?

Screenshot_20240704_191459_Samsung Internet.jpg (1.02 MiB) Viewed 3989 times

[burnley007]

And as such play-offs would be an underperformance, right?

Parker's luck will run out, he's not convincingly got promotion on either occasion despite having significant playing squad advantage. Hopefully it doesn't run out with us but I don't consider the promotions he has, in the context of the teams he had, a great indicator of future success.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope someone quotes this or screenshots it in 10 months time and pokes fun at me, I really do. I don't think it will happen though.

Glad we agree on this.

I'm desperately hoping that next Easter I'm having to eat slice after slice of Humble pie and I'm not saying "told you so...".

[RVclaret]

And as such play-offs would be an underperformance, right?

Parker's luck will run out, he's not convincingly got promotion on either occasion despite having significant playing squad advantage. Hopefully it doesn't run out with us but I don't consider the promotions he has, in the context of the teams he had, a great indicator of future success.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope someone quotes this or screenshots it in 10 months time and pokes fun at me, I really do. I don't think it will happen though.

I’ve been relatively negative on Parker but coming to terms with it, although I’m curious - Bournemouth finished 6th the season before he was appointed and didn’t make it past play off semi final. Solanke got 15 goals. He then finished 2 points behind Fulham (talked about at the time as one of the best Champ teams ever), most clean sheets in the league & best defence, and had Solanke firing to 30 goals, despite losing Danjuma that summer. I think you are being quite harsh here?

You are someone who usually gives credence to underlying metrics so if you look at their xG of 1.65 p/90 in comparison to Kompany’s title winners of 1.43 p/90, what do you think to that?

[ClaretAL]

But that doesn't fit people's narrative

Some people are just happy to have anyone in charge. I wanted the best possible candidate. Does that mean I'm not a 'proper fan'? I don't really care.

MODS surely enough is enough with this character?

[123EasyasBFC]

Parker with Bellamy and Jackson just feels right, feels organised and hardworking with leadership. Then you throw in Jensen who adds something different. To me it’s really something that the fans can get behind.

Yes it’s not the glamour name with supposed lots of contacts across Europe but there’s no guarantee that would work again.

Every appointment have risk’s and fans of his former clubs are always going to have bad things to say about him, certain Anderlect fans didn’t like or rate kompany. Likewise Burnley fans for some reason slag dyche off.

[Blyclaret]

Agreed …enough is enough …mods get rid.

[South West Claret.]

Parker with Bellamy and Jackson just feels right, feels organised and hardworking with leadership. Then you throw in Jensen who adds something different. To me it’s really something that the fans can get behind.

Yes it’s not the glamour name with supposed lots of contacts across Europe but there’s no guarantee that would work again.

Every appointment have risk’s and fans of his former clubs are always going to have bad things to say about him, certain Anderlect fans didn’t like or rate kompany. Likewise Burnley fans for some reason slag dyche off.

“ Likewise Burnley fans for some reason slag dyche off.” only some on this message board IMHO.

[Mattster]

I think you are being quite harsh here?

You are someone who usually gives credence to underlying metrics so if you look at their xG of 1.65 p/90 in comparison to Kompany’s title winners of 1.43 p/90, what do you think to that?

I'm not going to lie, the numbers surprise me. I watched a few games in that season and they were mind numbingly dull affairs where Bournemouth's better players won the game with moments. I recall their early season xG performance was pretty poor and they sat in a false position early doors. Ultimately they were run very close for automatic promotion by Corberan's Huddersfield and but for late goals in two games at the end they would have swapped places which to me felt very much like an underachievement to be run so close by a team with such an inferior squad and fraction of the budget. But I didn't bother looking at the numbers, I just assumed they'd continued in that early season vein based on what I'd seen when watching them.

Like I say, happy to be proven wrong but I just don't see it happening.

And the football is a carbon copy of Southgate's, which I've had enough of this Summer to last a lifetime.

[Vegas Claret]

I came on to see if there was any news, 2 more pages of nonsense. Despite CT asking people to just pack it in and not act like someone isn't letting them play with their mates deluxe 1960 Action Man some just can't help themselves. Come on lads, give it a rest please, the mods have a hard enough time keeping up with my nonsense !!

[Steddyman]

Wow.
Different views to you and I should be banned.

Good luck with Farage, you are clearly one of those types.

I don't agree with what burnley007 has to say on the manager subject, but he isn't attacking other people personally. I don't think it is right you ban him, it is a discussion forum after all. We don't all have to agree.

[burnley007]

I don't agree with what burnley007 has to say on the manager subject, but he isn't attacking other people personally. I don't think it is right you ban him, it is a discussion forum after all. We don't all have to agree.

It's a strange feeling tbh.
I'm only saying what I think.
It's typical of this board though, if you don't fit in, you get bullied.

[benstone12]

Christian Ziege?

[ClaretAL]

I don't agree with what burnley007 has to say on the manager subject, but he isn't attacking other people personally. I don't think it is right you ban him, it is a discussion forum after all. We don't all have to agree.

Totally agree that opinions should be shared but to constantly raise the opinion at least 20 times after surely is classed as insightful considering other posters posting their views is immediately followed by a post from said poster. For me it just drags the topical conversation to the gutter.

[RVclaret]

I'm not going to lie, the numbers surprise me. I watched a few games in that season and they were mind numbingly dull affairs where Bournemouth's better players won the game with moments. I recall their early season xG performance was pretty poor and they sat in a false position early doors. Ultimately they were run very close for automatic promotion by Corberan's Huddersfield and but for late goals in two games at the end they would have swapped places which to me felt very much like an underachievement to be run so close by a team with such an inferior squad and fraction of the budget. But I didn't bother looking at the numbers, I just assumed they'd continued in that early season vein based on what I'd seen when watching them.

Like I say, happy to be proven wrong but I just don't see it happening.

And the football is a carbon copy of Southgate's, which I've had enough of this Summer to last a lifetime.

Southgate has had a shocker at this Euros and I’ve been supportive of him overall. But the football has mainly been down to a lack of balance and mis-use of player profiles. Overall they’ve played some of the best football England has played in a long while under him. I remember under Capello and Hodgson we could barely make 5 passes. So while it’s been a crappy few weeks of his football I’m not sure it’s a true reflection on the entire tenure. Plus he failed in the Champ with Boro while Parker has 2/2 promotions.

Separately to that, I recall a discussion with you at the start of this thread about us both wanting a continuation of play style, not wanting to re-tool the squad and re-adapt to a new style of play - while it’s not Kompany it’s still a fairly ok continuation, same shape, similar profiles. And we arguably have more flair / attacking talent than Bournemouth had & he’s had a few seasons away from it. So I see the above as soft positives/reasons for optimism.

[Goobs]

All throughout this saga I have been thoroughly in the camp of almost anyone other than Parker and I would be happy.

Really uninspired if he is to take over.

Just hope we can make some decent signings to add to our core and we should be fine regardless of the manager.

If we make it up we'll worry how poor we will be in the prem at that point.

[KlyBfc]

I’ve already said I don’t want Parker (earlier when he was first touted).

I don’t rate him as a manager:

like other's, I don’t think those two promotions with the squads he had are that impressive.

I don’t like his style of play when he has the better players in the league (no issue being pragmatic and boring in the prem if it gets results but I expect more in the champ).

I don’t like how he has come across in interviews.

And

I have huge concerns about what the fans of his former clubs think, particularly when the negative themes are consistently the same.

It’s just my opinion.

I will back him when he’s appointed and the season starts (becasue he will be our manager) and I hope he proves me wrong (it won’t be the first time someone has). I do however have huge worries that things will turn toxic very quickly on all if he doesn’t hit the ground running especially considering we have Rovers at home and Leeds away very early on.

[Mattster]

Southgate has had a shocker at this Euros and I’ve been supportive of him overall. But the football has mainly been down to a lack of balance and mis-use of player profiles. Overall they’ve played some of the best football England has played in a long while under him. I remember under Capello and Hodgson we could barely make 5 passes. So while it’s been a crappy few weeks of his football I’m not sure it’s a true reflection on the entire tenure. Plus he failed in the Champ with Boro while Parker has 2/2 promotions.

Separately to that, I recall a discussion with you at the start of this thread about us both wanting a continuation of play style, not wanting to re-tool the squad and re-adapt to a new style of play - while it’s not Kompany it’s still a fairly ok continuation, same shape, similar profiles. And we arguably have more flair / attacking talent than Bournemouth had & he’s had a few seasons away from it. So I see the above as soft positives/reasons for optimism.

In danger of going off topic but I've found Southgate's football boring for the vast majority of his tenure. Like Parker, it's the worst of possession football IMO, what I always railed against when people criticised our football under Dyche. Possession for the sake of possession, static, keep the ball long enough that one of your better players forces something happen or you win a freekick and score from a set piece. None of the positional play or rotations of better coaches. I don't think it bears much, if any resemblance to the football we played under VK (in the Championship especially).

Maybe it will be different inheriting coaching and playing staff with experience of playing a more exciting version of possession football? Fingers crossed.

[kentonclaret]

Was I, though?

Screenshot_20240704_191459_Samsung Internet.jpg

Totally wrong. Leeds and Fulham were not 5/2 joint favourites at the start of the season which would be ludicrous. Leeds could be backed at around 4/1 with Fulham around 8/1.
Take the upcoming season for example, Leeds are currently favourites at around 4/1 with Burnley second favourites at 8/1.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Are we now honestly arguing over what odds a team were several years ago? Lets just back the manager & coaching staff but good luck screaming at seagulls.

[kentonclaret]

Parker was managing teams expected to win the league and finished 4th and 2nd. Corberan took over teams in the bottom half of the league (20th and 23rd) and took them to the play-offs.

One overachieved, one achieved par at best.

An example of more twisted facts and misinformation from Mattster.

Championship Odds at the start of the 2021/22 season

Fulham 11/2
West Bromwich 6/1
Sheffield United 7/1
BOURNEMOUTH 10/1
QPR 16/1
Cardiff 18/1
Middlesbrough 20/1

So no, Bournemouth were not EXPECTED to win the Championship that season and neither were they the favourites to do so.

[123EasyasBFC]

Christian Ziege?

Hahaha what you putting a random ex German footballers name out there for?

[Mattster]

Totally wrong. Leeds and Fulham were not 5/2 joint favourites at the start of the season which would be ludicrous. Leeds could be backed at around 4/1 with Fulham around 8/1.
Take the upcoming season for example, Leeds are currently favourites at around 4/1 with Burnley second favourites at 8/1.

I literally posted a screenshot from that season with the odds. Are you suggesting I photoshopped it or something?

[burnley007]

What happened to Igor Tudor?

[TsarBomba]

I’ve already said I don’t want Parker (earlier when he was first touted).

I don’t rate him as a manager:

like other's, I don’t think those two promotions with the squads he had are that impressive.

I don’t like his style of play when he has the better players in the league (no issue being pragmatic and boring in the prem if it gets results but I expect more in the champ).

I don’t like how he has come across in interviews.

And

I have huge concerns about what the fans of his former clubs think, particularly when the negative themes are consistently the same.

It’s just my opinion.

I will back him when he’s appointed and the season starts (becasue he will be our manager) and I hope he proves me wrong (it won’t be the first time someone has). I do however have huge worries that things will turn toxic very quickly on all if he doesn’t hit the ground running especially considering we have Rovers at home and Leeds away very early on.

Just to counteract this a little, although I appreciate there are valid concerns (as there would likely be with any new manager).

We can’t comment on what the exact style of football will be. Yes, it might not be a radical shift, but Parker will have a completely different team behind him from his days at Bournemouth and Fulham. Jensen and Jackson have been managers in their own right previously, and Bellamy is hardly a shrinking violet. They will have (some) influence.

The changes we are making in the structure behind the manager, and the change to a ‘head coach’ allude to the desire for it to be more of a democratic, segmented approach, which is good thing.

You have to take the views of Bournemouth and Fulham fans with a pinch of salt. Football fans are inherently negative before they are positive. If you were to ask a cross section of Burnley fans their views on Dyche, then a good percentage would say the football was boring and they were glad to see the back of him, much like what Bournemouth and Fulham fans are saying about Parker. But that wouldn’t be telling the full story, would it?

2/2 promotions, whichever way you try and spin it, is seriously, seriously impressive, and that is the exact experience we need at this point. We’ve a lot to get through this summer- a massive squad overhaul and it gives us a head start having a manager that knows the league, and knows what’s needed to get out of it.

It may take 10 games for us to show signs of gelling, but that could also have been the case if we still had Kompany. It took 10+ games 2 years ago to get into our stride and we still smashed it. There’s no reason for it to turn toxic, it’s a long season, and it undoubtedly feels like there is a bit of a hangover from relegation this time around to work through.

[123EasyasBFC]

What happened to Igor Tudor?

Meeting with Pace in Dubrovnik must not of gone well

[Poulton-le-Claret]

There’s no reason for it to turn toxic, it’s a long season, and it undoubtedly feels like there is a bit of a hangover from relegation this time around to work through.

I pretty much agree with all you say, although I'll add that if we lose at home to Blackburn, whoever is in charge is going to get pelters from the fans and will have some serious work to get people back on side.

On the flip side, win and they will have 99% of fans behind them.

[mybloodisclaret]

I pretty much agree with all you say, although I'll add that if we lose at home to Blackburn, whoever is in charge is going to get pelters from the fans and will have some serious work to get people back on side.

On the flip side, win and they will have 99% of fans behind them.

Exactly this....need to stay unbeaten until that game and run riot against them. Everyone will be % behind the manager then.

With the squad we have currently we shouldn't be contemplating anything less. Plenty in this massive squad to be in the top 2.

[HahaYeah]

What happened to Igor Tudor?

Went over the hill with the swords of a thousand men.

[mybloodisclaret]

I literally posted a screenshot from that season with the odds. Are you suggesting I photoshopped it or something?

I suppose it depends when the screen shotted prices were as they were. Start of the season or March?

[NewClaret]

I think some of the improvements got lost in the emotion of it being such a bad season results wise. The team did improve at set pieces. There were games when you could see a proper structure - not quite Dyche level of organisation but it was improved. Some individuals really grew in performance levels - O'Shea, Cullen. There were positives but they tended to get lost because we were so uncompetitive for much of the season. Agree with all of your post. I would have given Vinny full backing this season so I think the same should apply to his coaches continuing in the same roles.

Agree with every word of that.

Probably from January onwards I’d accepted relegation and watched all of the games through a different lens, forgetting the result and looking for improvements and positives - individually and as a team. There were lots but I knew posting and discussing them on here was fruitless so I tended to post less this season. Hoping the coaches, particularly Bellamy and Jackson, can keep working on those areas and continuing that progression.

[Steddyman]

It's a strange feeling tbh.
I'm only saying what I think.
It's typical of this board though, if you don't fit in, you get bullied.

I don't think many have a problem with what you are saying, and some clearly agree.

The issue is the frequency of your responses, like you are trying to convince every contrary opinion to yours.

If I can accept your views, learn to accept the views of others rather than trying to prove them wrong

[burnley007]

I don't think many have a problem with what you are saying, and some clearly agree.

The issue is the frequency of your responses, like you are trying to convince every contrary opinion to yours.

If I can accept your views, learn to accept the views of others rather than trying to prove them wrong

I really haven't posted very often.

It's just that I seem to be a lone voice

[123EasyasBFC]

I really haven't posted very often.

It's just that I seem to be a lone voice

The big question is will you back Parker once he’s officially announced?

[KRBFC]

Parker was managing teams expected to win the league and finished 4th and 2nd. Corberan took over teams in the bottom half of the league (20th and 23rd) and took them to the play-offs.

One overachieved, one achieved par at best.

Imagine trying to convince people WBA were one of the worst teams in this league they’re spending a fortune on wages. Saying Corberan has overachieved there is funny, he couldn’t do ANY worse and took over after a few games of a new season. They had one of the strongest squads in the league, just got off to a poor start.

[burnley007]

The big question is will you back Parker once he’s officially announced?

I will back the team, as always.

[Stonehouse]

Parker and Starmer all in one day

[burnley007]

Parker and Starmer all in one day

Plusses and minuses I guess.

[Bosscat]

Plusses and minuses I guess.

Ahhh but which is the minus and which the plus

[Steddyman]

I really haven't posted very often.

It's just that I seem to be a lone voice

I had the same response when I first heard it was Parker as you did, especially after some of the linked names like RVN.

In retrospect, the problem with Parker (apart from his dress sense), is he just seems boring compared with some of the 'names'. We didn't do too badly out of the previous boring manager though.

He has this going for him, especially if he we keep Bellamy:
- He was a model professional as a player and very intelligent
- He knows the division, and has successfully got two teams out of it
- He will have plenty of contacts from his playing career
- He plays a similar style of possession based football as VK, so the team should suit him
- He has a track record of working well with and developing young players
- He has built his team around a mix of youth and experience, and knows the value of that experience
- He's failed twice on promotion, but arguably the last time he had his hands tied behind his back on transfers, so should know what is required to make the jump
- He doesn't wear a cap with a suit

[123EasyasBFC]

I will back the team, as always.

That’s good to know at least you’ll back him.

[warksclaret]

I had the same response when I first heard it was Parker as you did, especially after some of the linked names like RVN.

In retrospect, the problem with Parker (apart from his dress sense), is he just seems boring compared with some of the 'names'. We didn't do too badly out of the previous boring manager though.

He has this going for him, especially if he we keep Bellamy:
- He was a model professional as a player and very intelligent
- He knows the division, and has successfully got two teams out of it
- He will have plenty of contacts from his playing career
- He plays a similar style of possession based football as VK, so the team should suit him
- He has a track record of working well with and developing young players
- He has built his team around a mix of youth and experience, and knows the value of that experience
- He's failed twice on promotion, but arguably the last time he had his hands tied behind his back on transfers, so should know what is required to make the jump
- He doesn't wear a cap with a suit

....good points, and he does not appear to have an ego bigger than the club

[Hedontplayforyou]

If they announce him with A “streets” skit of some sort it will
Show some real character

[Wile E Coyote]

Bellamy will be a thorn in the new managers side.