Spain v England

[BurnleyFC]

New captain.
New manager.
New talent.
New ideas.

Exciting times.

[taio]

The PL needs to start helping too, far too often we have our Champions league teams playing on a Sat-Weds-Sat, in Spain they postpone the fixture before the big games and give the players more rest. If England want to win things the players need to be given priority over the PL (and the clubs are just as much to blame with these **** take money making tours)

I'd rather we stick to our guns and preserve and protect our domestic leagues.

[KRBFC]

It's very accurate. And while Southgate might not have used those words, he used those tactics. It's his job to take control of the tactical situation. He failed.

You’re not going to out football the Spanish, culturally they’re so far advanced at keeping the ball. I thought Southgate’s subs were positive and made an impact, the Spanish just controlled us throughout. We needed big impact from great players like Foden and Kane, we didn’t get it.

[Swizzlestick]

Needed 8 and 9 out of 10 performances from our top players and we didn’t get anywhere near it. Kane was actually quite a sad sight to watch. He was way off it - couldn’t even challenge for the ball properly, so slow. Foden went missing, Bellingham and Saka looked a bit knackered, Mainoo overawed, Walker all over the place. Can’t put in performances like that and expect to win major trophies.

[taio]

You’re not going to out football the Spanish, culturally they’re so far advanced at keeping the ball. I thought Southgate’s subs were positive and made an impact, the Spanish just controlled us throughout. We needed big impact from great players like Foden and Kane, we didn’t get it.

There are other ways to play than defending deep on the edge of your box, especially after getting back into the game. The reason the likes of Foden didn't have an impact today and enough in previous games is because of the negative tactics deployed. It was so very obvious and certainly not with the benefit of hindsight - it's what many people have been highlighting prior to today.

[Vintage Claret]

Obviously gutted at the result but not as much as when we lost to a bang average Italy side on penalties in the previous Euro final

Spain have been the best team in the tournament and the better team won on the night tonight so good for them.

When we equalised, rather than give England the momentum, it seemed to inspire Spain and it was virtually one way traffic until their inevitable winner.

Oh well, never mind, guess we'll just have to wait another 2 years until ''it" finally comes home..

[Murger]

When did the FA actually appoint a non-negative manager? Sven?

[roperclaret]

When did the FA actually appoint a non-negative manager? Sven?

Venables

[Tresor'sTracksuit]

Imagine Venables with this team.

[Vegas Claret]

Absolutely no to that. The domestic league is disrupted far too much already by Europe and internationals.

I didn't say I wanted it, it's a massive reason why the national team fails though

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Southgate lol

Don't let the door hit you on the ar5se on the way out.....

[MT03ALG]

After 1-1.
Toney for Saka.
Palmer on the right.
Attack i.e.continue to take the game to Spain.
Win 2-1, 3-1, 4-1.
End of story.
Southgate out.

[RammyClaret61]

Venables

Then they panicked and found a reason to sack him.

[Swizzlestick]

Venables had a pretty good squad at his disposal - greatest midfielder of his generation, all time PL scorer, pretty solid defence - and didn’t reach a final.

I do think it’s time for a change now though.

[chipbutty]

Needed 8 and 9 out of 10 performances from our top players and we didn’t get anywhere near it. Kane was actually quite a sad sight to watch. He was way off it - couldn’t even challenge for the ball properly, so slow. Foden went missing, Bellingham and Saka looked a bit knackered, Mainoo overawed, Walker all over the place. Can’t put in performances like that and expect to win major trophies.

Exactly this.
I said about 3 games ago that these players are 9 out of 10 week in, week out for Citeh etc. For England they're a 6 at best. Is the problem the manager or the individual players?

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Picking your out of form favourites will always eventually bite you hard.

Kane had more touches of his own balls this last month than he did on the pitch yet still gets picked to start. Hilarious/disgracefully p!ss poor from the manager

[Wembley09]

Obviously gutted at the result but not as much as when we lost to a bang average Italy side on penalties in the previous Euro final

Spain have been the best team in the tournament and the better team won on the night tonight so good for them.

When we equalised, rather than give England the momentum, it seemed to inspire Spain and it was virtually one way traffic until their inevitable winner.

Oh well, never mind, guess we'll just have to wait another 2 years until ''it" finally comes home..

Over this Euros, seen alot of foreign player's talk about how we threw away that game against Italy. They all spoke about how Italy were there to be beat, but we didn't handle the game right after going infront and allowed Italy back into it.


I love the job Southgate as done (better than any modern day manager) but is he too cautious.

[Vegas Claret]

In one of his interviews after the game Southgate was asked about the momentum after the equalizer - he said something along the lines of 'we had a throw in in the Spanish final third and we threw it all the way back to Pickford' - That was Walker, probably our most experienced player. Players consistently made poor choices throughout the tournament and I'm not sure why that is tbh

[Wembley09]

In one of his interviews after the game Southgate was asked about the momentum after the equalizer - he said something along the lines of 'we had a throw in in the Spanish final third and we threw it all the way back to Pickford' - That was Walker, probably our most experienced player. Players consistently made poor choices throughout the tournament and I'm not sure why that is tbh

Because I have no clue and I tell them to do what's best, but when they don't I have no idea why - Southgate

[Tribesmen]

Beaten by the best side at the Euro's , best just leave it at that .

[NottsClaret]

No chance we’re changing our domestic leagues, nobody gives a toss about England now until one month in 2026.

I hope the next guy bins off the ‘senior leadership group’. You end up with situations like this time, where players are starting games because they’re in the inner circle rather than on merit. We started a major final with ten players tonight out of choice.

Spain would have beaten us anyway, they’re just better than we are which is fine, but let’s pick teams on merit from here on.

[RVclaret]

In one of his interviews after the game Southgate was asked about the momentum after the equalizer - he said something along the lines of 'we had a throw in in the Spanish final third and we threw it all the way back to Pickford' - That was Walker, probably our most experienced player. Players consistently made poor choices throughout the tournament and I'm not sure why that is tbh

Walker was awful all tournament. Ironic that ‘liability Trent’ who ‘can’t defend’ was benched for a player who’s only strength now is being a bit quick, which doesn’t even matter when you are so frequently out of position. Don’t get me started on his passing and crossing.

[JohnMcGreal]

Beaten by a better side. No shame in that.

I think questions can be asked about the generally poor standard of performance throughout the tournament.

Kane should be calling it a day and retiring from international football at this point.

Southgate should resign, for his own sake. He looks done in.

Whatever happens someone needs to find a way of taking these players up a couple of levels. There's so much quality there, it shouldn't be that hard.

[TheFamilyCat]

England were rancid for virtually the whole tournament. We made the final thanks to moments of individual brilliance by Bellingham, Saka and Watkins that came out of nowhere (add Palmer's equaliser last night to that).

Southgate moaning about playing extra time twice was laughable. We played extra time because we were garbage in those games.

[Hipper]

Kyle Walker at fault for both goals drifted off Williams then off his man for cross

I didn't think Walker was at fault for the first goal. He had to come inside to mark a free man leaving Williams alone. Either Saka should have been there - he was further upfield near Cucurella - or Mainoo. Same thing happens almost immediately afterwards so clearly someone has erred somewhere.

For the second goal Saka lets Cucurella go - that's it.

I thought Walker was one of our better players yesterday and in the tournament. He did really well when marking Williams and also was a good attacking outlet at times.

The best team won of course. I ask myself which England player would I put in the Spanish side. I can't think of any. That's why we lost. Yet we weren't far away from winning.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Beaten by a better side, who were set up better and their players performed.

Playing 60 minutes with 10 men was never going to work. Seen a stat this morning since the knockout stages began we have led in total for 36 minutes in total. Think Southgate when he looks back on things will really regret his tactics in the previous final against an average Italy.

[warksclaret]

Venables had a pretty good squad at his disposal - greatest midfielder of his generation, all time PL scorer, pretty solid defence - and didn’t reach a final.

I do think it’s time for a change now though.

But he was not manager for 100 games

[Colburn_Claret]

I didn't think Walker was at fault for the first goal. He had to come inside to mark a free man leaving Williams alone. Either Saka should have been there - he was further upfield near Cucurella - or Mainoo. Same thing happens almost immediately afterwards so clearly someone has erred somewhere.

For the second goal Saka lets Cucurella go - that's it.

I thought Walker was one of our better players yesterday and in the tournament. He did really well when marking Williams and also was a good attacking outlet at times.

The best team won of course. I ask myself which England player would I put in the Spanish side. I can't think of any. That's why we lost. Yet we weren't far away from winning.

Sorry Hipper, both goals came from the space he should have been covering. On both occasions he was doubling up in the area on other players, but that wasn't his job. The danger was always going to be down the wings, he should have been concentrating on his own job, rather than someone else's.
Kane (hopelessly out of form), Walker (absent without leave), and Rice (giving the ball away cheaply) cost us dearly.
Credit to Spain, they had a game plan, and stuck to it. We still looked like we didn't know if we were coming or going.

All tournament Pickfords hoofed that long ball to Kane, all tournament his feet haven't left the ground. Any other manager would have either replaced Kane, or stopped hoofing it. To carry on with the same poor tactic highlights the paucity of Southgates coaching.

[Indecisive]

Pep Guardiola, Arteta or Klopp managing this English squad would make them almost unbeatable

These are great managers. However, have they done as well as they have because the have built their teams and work with then day in day out, to mould them to play a particular style. Particularly with Pep, those players are coached to within an inch of their lives. Can you do that as an International manager? For me it's almost a different game.

[Colburn_Claret]

These are great managers. However, have they done as well as they have because the have built their teams and work with then day in day out, to mould them to play a particular style. Particularly with Pep, those players are coached to within an inch of their lives. Can you do that as an International manager? For me it's almost a different game.

It's obviously a fair point, but other teams seem to manage it. Even the so called 'smaller' nations are organised, and have a plan. The secret is to keep it simple, and don't ask players to play otherwise than they do for their clubs

[Colburn_Claret]

These are great managers. However, have they done as well as they have because the have built their teams and work with then day in day out, to mould them to play a particular style. Particularly with Pep, those players are coached to within an inch of their lives. Can you do that as an International manager? For me it's almost a different game.

It's obviously a fair point, but other teams seem to manage it. Even the so called 'smaller' nations are organised, and have a plan. The secret is to keep it simple, and don't ask players to play otherwise than they do for their clubs.

[Dark Cloud]

Although pretty much everyone agrees we were beaten by the best team at the tournament, we weren't that far away from taking them to the extra half hour and even the lottery of the pens. In the dying minutes Watkins mis controls a great pass which he would have been tied on to score from and the two point blank headers were either unlucky or glaring misses depending on how you look at it. As others have said we didn't help ourselves by playing Kane who sadly looked a busted flush at that level, despite his stand out season in Germany. It smacked all tournament of misguided loyalty to someone who's done it for you in the past when the difficult decision was to move on and leave him out for a fresher face and that didn't help us unfortunately.

[Blyclaret]

Hard luck england …. Its a good story but I heard it before

[Quickenthetempo]

Venables had a pretty good squad at his disposal - greatest midfielder of his generation, all time PL scorer, pretty solid defence - and didn’t reach a final.

Yeah, Southgate messed that one up as well.

[Sproggy]

England were rancid for virtually the whole tournament. We made the final thanks to moments of individual brilliance by Bellingham, Saka and Watkins that came out of nowhere (add Palmer's equaliser last night to that).

Southgate moaning about playing extra time twice was laughable. We played extra time because we were garbage in those games.

Some of his comments during this tournament have been bizarre - experimenting playing people out of position during a tournament because we haven't found a replacement for Kalvin Philips....after the game last night he said Kane hadn't been effective because he wasn't fit. Eh? He has no idea what his best team is, no idea what formation to play, he has no idea how to set a team up to win and he can't respond to changes made by the opposition.

What's his approach? We don't press. We don't try and pass it round teams that do. We play long ball football from the keeper, yet when we do win it in midfield we don't get it wide quickly to get crosses in or try and get in behind teams, we pass it slowly sideways and backwards around the midfield until the inevitable return to Pickford and hopeful hoof. Throw in having players out of position or hopelessly out of form and eventually your luck runs out.

35% possession last night - that's Sean Dyche's Burnley vs. Man City level stats yet we have Rice, Bellingham and Foden in midfield not Cork, Westwood and Brownhill.

Still, we have Ireland and Finland to look forward to in a couple of months after Gareth got us relegated from the top Nations League group.

[BurnleyFC]

We’ve been dreadful all tournament bar two halves of football.

The luckiest England manager in history’s luck finally ran out last night, and injured or not (if he was injured, why the hell was he playing?), Kane’s performance in the final was probably the worst centre forward performance from a professional footballer that I’ve ever seen.

[Hipper]

Sorry Hipper, both goals came from the space he should have been covering. On both occasions he was doubling up in the area on other players, but that wasn't his job. The danger was always going to be down the wings, he should have been concentrating on his own job, rather than someone else's.
Kane (hopelessly out of form), Walker (absent without leave), and Rice (giving the ball away cheaply) cost us dearly.
Credit to Spain, they had a game plan, and stuck to it. We still looked like we didn't know if we were coming or going.

All tournament Pickfords hoofed that long ball to Kane, all tournament his feet haven't left the ground. Any other manager would have either replaced Kane, or stopped hoofing it. To carry on with the same poor tactic highlights the paucity of Southgates coaching.

Well I don't know what Walker's instructions were but I doubt it would be some kind of man to man marking (is that done anymore?). Generally any defender should try to deal with the most dangerous option, which in this case was the attacker in the central area. If Walker had let him have the space he might have scored. It's no good saying it wasn't my man that scored so it isn't my fault. It's a team game and all players have to look out for the team. That's how I see it anyway.

I agree with most of your other points including the ridiculous kick off routine in every match - pass back to Pickford who will hoof it up to Kane with others in the vicinity. All it seemed to do was give the ball to the opposition - everytime. Unless it was one of those psychological things that some managers used to employ years ago - get it in the opponents half to intimidate them - it seemed pointless. It was almost like saying 'we don't know what to do with the ball, you do something'.

[JR1882]

I think getting to the final has papered over a lot of cracks.

Walker - time to move on I think. Kane maybe had one more tournament in him but his style limits this potentially dynamic young team & we need a quicker more mobile front man. Taking him off after an hour is essentially an admission that he shouldn’t have started.

Gareth has done a super job, he has nurtured a great ethic & environment which has previously been far from that, 2018 he made us greater than the sum of our parts but last night we were less than. I think things have moved on and the quality of player we now have is beyond the level Gareth is able to coach.

Don’t nessescary think we need some to play all out attack, but we do need to decide what we are on the field & go from there. Keeping it tight & then relying on star quality will only take us so far.

[BigGaz]

Quite an amusing, semi-serious bead from Kieran Maguire over on twitter:

"Based on FIFA rankings and converting into domestic positions England’s results over 90 minutes would have been
Spurs 1 Preston 0
Spurs 1 Leicester 1
Spurs 0 Exeter 0
Spurs 1 Portsmouth 1
Spurs 1 Burnley 1
Spurs 2 Newcastle 1
Spurs 1 Man Utd 2"

[Gp8419]

Imagine Venables with this team.

I think the 4-2 against Holland in ‘96 and the Gazza wonder goal as overrated that England team.We got to a semi after just sneaking through on pens v Spain.We have hit two finals with a extra knockout game thrown in (more teams).only 16 competed in ‘96 and we was on home turf.yet that team is considered better they may play better football yes but that’s it imo.

[jlup1980]

We have a talented squad and we made the final due to individual moments of quality rather than tactical genius.

Southgate fell into the same trap as Sven, and several other managers, in thinking some players HAD to start, meaning we played a whole tournament without a mobile striker and without a left winger. Whoever takes over from Gareth needs to make the hard decisions for the good of the team.

Foden and Bellingham are not left wingers. It's like when Scholes played on the left. It's just doesn't work.

And Kane's legs look like they've gone. He can still do a job if he playing in a team like Spain; a team who dominate the ball and get crosses into the box. He simply can't play in a team that sits back. He doesn't occupy the centre halves and offers very little to the team. It's sad to see, but time catches up with everyone.

[Ric_C]

I like Southgate, he has done a lot for English football. But this was all so typically inevitable. There is only so long we can rely on lady luck, and determination. The first real quality side we play and we are found wanting.

England moving forward. Sort out the left back position. Play Bellingham deeper, and rotate him with technicians like Wharton and Mainoo. Bring Trent in, have a front 3 of dynamic pacy players. Klopp would be a perfect choice for next manager with the players we have.

[Tribesmen]

Hard one really to call on Southgate , he makes choices with players and some work others don't , but lets face it after the Serbia game how many were calling for his head . He got a very good side to the final the problem i see it is that England have very good players in the country but are any of them in the top 5 in the world , i don't think so and this is why they have fallen short again .

Think about the draw and Spain beat England , France and Germany , i don't think England would have beaten Germany or France do you ?

Southgate should leave as he has been close over the last 4 years but not close enough .

[claretskeith]

i don't think England would have beaten Germany or France do you ?

We'd have had every chance, yes. But who we would have beat and who would have got into Spain's side (I disagree with the poster who mentioned nobody) could be a 10-pager on its own.

Southgate is a defensive-minded manager and I think with the players we have (arguably the best squad since before Italia 90) we need a more attack-minded manager. You've got to give him credit for how far we have gone in the previous 4 tournaments, and he did make some great subs, but ultimately I just think he's too defensive and a bit tactically inept.

[bfcjg]

Southgate and his backroom staff are in domestic terms a low ranking Premier league team trying to manage top end professionals, we need a top end proven manager and backroom staff. Somebody like Klopp with this talent pool would have smashed the Euros.

[Sproggy]

Southgate said: "Harry has come into the tournament having had an injury at the end of the season. He's played a lot of minutes. We've tried to manage those minutes as well as we could. He's led the team incredibly well. We've lost a lot of leadership from the group with the injuries to Jordan Henderson and Harry Maguire, so a lot has fallen on Harry's shoulders."

Kane pushed to play whilst injured because Jordan Henderson wasn't there. He's delusional.

[claretskeith]

I don't remember Kane sprinting once in the 7 games. He played like he was pulling a bus.

[jlup1980]

Southgate said: "Harry has come into the tournament having had an injury at the end of the season. He's played a lot of minutes. We've tried to manage those minutes as well as we could. He's led the team incredibly well. We've lost a lot of leadership from the group with the injuries to Jordan Henderson and Harry Maguire, so a lot has fallen on Harry's shoulders."

Kane pushed to play whilst injured because Jordan Henderson wasn't there. He's delusional.

There you go then, we would have won last night had we started Henderson and Phillips in midfield

[Rileybobs]

There you go then, we would have won last night had we started Henderson and Phillips in midfield

I think Southgate's point was that he thought England needed Kane's leadership qualities on the pitch, and having watched Burnley last season I wouldn't be so quick to mock that view.

[beddie]

Hindsight and all that. I would have loved Southgate to have changed it at half time and bring on Watkins, Cole and Gallagher. It just might have put more pressure on them, especially with them taking of Rhodri, Spain though have and were outstanding at times.