Summer 2024 Transfer Window Discussion - Rumours and Links welcome

[Selby Claret]

the photo is from an article about him supposedly signing for Utd from Genk prior to going to Sheff U.

The photo was false then

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/footb ... d-21376826

[summitclaret]

Esteve is 6'4 is that not tall enough?

Luton have 2 massive strikers. We need more height to defend set pieces where they bring their cbs up. Without Berge, we ain't got it other than from our extra cbs.

[IanMcL]

https://sportsview.co.uk/2024/08/manche ... uel-ugarte

Berge price goes up!

[Woodleyclaret]

£40m or £25m and McTominay

[CFS]

My bad that's the picture i saw and fell for it.

[Andreshotboots]

Luton have 2 massive strikers. We need more height to defend set pieces where they bring their cbs up. Without Berge, we ain't got it other than from our extra cbs.

2 big central defenders, Foster and a keeper who commands his 6 yard box should be more than enough to defend set pieces. The smaller players need to do their blocking jobs well too..we used to go to City with a much taller side than they had and never got near them on set pieces...

[ClaretTony]

Don’t think Green qualifies as homegrown under EFL rules. Given our really low hg numbers in the squad I thought a hg keeper being on the bench was an easy 1/7 in the match day squad. It appears he moved to France aged 4 so won’t have been coached by a UK based club for 3 years prior to turning 21.

He doesn’t. Nationality is irrelevant, to qualify as home grown you must have spent three successive years up to the age of 21 with an English or Welsh club.

[taio]

£40m or £25m and McTominay

We should hold out for and get a sizeable fee, but we ain't getting £40m, or a deal including McTominay who in no circumstances would drop to the championship. Pure fantasy.

[RVclaret]

He doesn’t. Nationality is irrelevant, to qualify as home grown you must have spent three successive years up to the age of 21 with an English or Welsh club.

Thought so. While on this point, we were discussing on another thread how Massengo should be considered homegrown this season under EFL rules that it must be 36 months before turning 21 or 3 seasons (of which he did the latter with Bristol City). I recall you didn’t list him in the hg names on another thread.

[jojomk1]

I'm starting to feel a bit twitchy now to be honest. We've got a massive squad and we know we need Outgoings- we seem to be struggling to move on a lot of the fringe players so I think the bigger players will have to be sold because we obviously need the money.

It's starting to look that way if rumours of Berge, Trafford and O'Shea are true

Which shows how many players signed under Kompany would seem to be deemed not good enough at Championship level for us now

Egan-Riley, Redmond, Churlinov, Delcroix, Obafemi, Bastien, McNally, Twine

Add to them Weghorst, Costello (and one of Ekdal or Al-Dakhil if need be)

[ClaretTony]

Not sure how exactly the rules work but Massengo was a month past his 18th birthday when he went to Bristol City.

[KlyBfc]

2 big central defenders, Foster and a keeper who commands his 6 yard box should be more than enough to defend set pieces. The smaller players need to do their blocking jobs well too..we used to go to City with a much taller side than they had and never got near them on set pieces...

Whilst I don’t disagree with you , it should be, Foster has to do miles better than he did on Sunday when he allowed the man to rise completely unchallenged and head home their goal (Foster neither engaged physically, got tight or even jumped).

[RVclaret]

Not sure how exactly the rules work but Massengo was a month past his 18th birthday when he went to Bristol City.

Yeah we found the rule which states 3 full seasons up to turning 21 (can turn 21 that season). So that would be 19/20, 20/21 and 21/22. Hopefully this is the case given, as I’ve been highlighting, our lack of numbers for the match day squad requirement.

[RVclaret]

Brentford keen on O’Shea according to Sky Sports. Suggestion is we want a ‘significant fee’ for him though.

[KlyBfc]

Regarding Berge.

Didn’t someone write in this thread (or another) that a player beginning with B was likely to move because despite the club not wanting to sell them and the player not pushing for a move. They said the players agent was trying to get them to move which had meant the club were now considering selling them.

My question is to that person (I can’t remember who it was) as it’s seems was Berge the player in question ?

[Elizabeth]

It's starting to look that way if rumours of Berge, Trafford and O'Shea are true

Which shows how many players signed under Kompany would seem to be deemed not good enough at Championship level for us now

Egan-Riley, Redmond, Churlinov, Delcroix, Obafemi, Bastien, McNally, Twine

Add to them Weghorst, Costello (and one of Ekdal or Al-Dakhil if need be)

If it’s a rebuild under Parker I wouldn’t be too disappointed if he’s up to the task.
I can’t say any of the players you’ve named connect with me like Rodrigues, Gudmundsson and Brownhill.
We’ve had teams built before where teamwork and spirit have compensated for quality. Not that the quality in the Championship is that frightening.
Here’s one Burnley fan who can’t wait for the clear out and won’t be shedding any tears whoever it involves
#givememyteamback

[ClaretTony]

Yeah we found the rule which states 3 full seasons up to turning 21 (can turn 21 that season). So that would be 19/20, 20/21 and 21/22. Hopefully this is the case given, as I’ve been highlighting, our lack of numbers for the match day squad requirement.

He should be ok though. The folly of having such a big, generally non home grown squad.

[BigGaz]

Regarding Berge.

Didn’t someone write in this thread (or another) that a player beginning with B was likely to move because despite the club not wanting to sell them and the player not pushing for a move. They said the players agent was trying to get them to move which had meant the club were now considering selling them.

My question is to that person (I can’t remember who it was) as it’s seems was Berge the player in question ?

Hey, that was me I believe.

Full caveat that a lot of what I repeat are discussions that have taken place and they're not always concrete and can be shot down as easily as they stand up but what I was told in good faith is that Wolves did like Berge but baulked at the fee, probably rightly so, and that we gave them some encouragement towards Brownhill who is looking like he's gonna run his contract down.

I think they see JB more as a backup opposed to SB being a first choice so not sure it's gonna be a flyer.

[claretspice]

Not sure how exactly the rules work but Massengo was a month past his 18th birthday when he went to Bristol City.

Definition of home grown player:

‘Home Grown Player’ shall mean a Player who irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with:-
his current Club; and/or
a Club and/or any other football club affiliated to the Football Association or the Football Association of Wales, for a period, continuous or not of three Seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the Season during which he turns 21). For the purposes of this definition of Home Grown Player only, a Season will be deemed to commence for all Clubs on the same date as the date on which the Summer Transfer Window in that Season closes for Clubs in Leagues One and Two, and expire on the date of the final League Match of the Season.

Based on that definition, I can't see that the point in August at which Massengo signed for Bristol City would matter.

However, I suspect that fixating on Massengo misses the point. It seems to me the big problem is that of the current squad, only O'Shea, Cullen and Brownhill are first choice and meet the test, and the overall list of players who meet the test is quite small - which potentially paints us into a corner in having lots of players, but not being able to select them.

[LaLigaClaret]

Berge is worth what Man U will pay however they must be a bit stuck if Ugarte is too expensive at £60m and Berge is considered their next best option. We might need the money and need to reduce the squad size but we still hold the best hand, if they want him that badly then they have to pay for him.
We should ask for £35m at the very least and not the reported £15m Fnerbache was alleged to have offered. We might not get £35m but I wouldn't accept much less.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

I do not get how some people are happy for a full squad rebuild 6 days before the season starts. Basically a wasted pre-season then if that's the case

[ClaretTony]

Definition of home grown player:

‘Home Grown Player’ shall mean a Player who irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with:-
his current Club; and/or
a Club and/or any other football club affiliated to the Football Association or the Football Association of Wales, for a period, continuous or not of three Seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the Season during which he turns 21). For the purposes of this definition of Home Grown Player only, a Season will be deemed to commence for all Clubs on the same date as the date on which the Summer Transfer Window in that Season closes for Clubs in Leagues One and Two, and expire on the date of the final League Match of the Season.

Based on that definition, I can't see that the point in August at which Massengo signed for Bristol City would matter.

He signed on 5th August 2019 which was two days after the season started for Bristol City. If that season counts then he had finished three seasons before his 21st in July 2022.

[Pearcey]

I do not get how some people are happy for a full squad rebuild 6 days before the season starts. Basically a wasted pre-season then if that's the case

Losing some players is hardly a rebuild. We’ve got decent cover all over the pitch.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Losing some players is hardly a rebuild. We’ve got decent cover all over the pitch.

I agree, loosing a 2/3 isn't a rebuild, but some on the thread are talking about being happy to have a 'rebuild'.

August is a long month, it's really unlikely we will get through it without losing a couple of players we want to keep, just got to hope there is a plan to replace them (whether that is with the players we have or new ones)

[claretspice]

I do not get how some people are happy for a full squad rebuild 6 days before the season starts. Basically a wasted pre-season then if that's the case

I don't think we're looking at any real sort of re-build. I'd be amazed if we kicked off with more than 5 or 6 new faces in the squad, and lost more than a 2, perhaps 3 of our likely first choice team (assuming Trafford isn't in it) - certainly in positions where we don't already have their replacement (we might lose Odobert, but if we do I can't see us signing another left winger/number 10 to replace him). We're in a far more settled state than we were 6 days before the commencement of the 22/23 season where there were a lot of vacant slots in a first choice 18 still to be filled. We're looking at replacing a couple of big names and getting rid of some surplus ballast that Kompany took a punt on, probably in order to allow us to rebalance in a couple of areas.

[Holtyclaret]

Wood had a £25m release clause in his contract,there was little we could do about that,Pope on the other hand was an absolute disgrace ,

Hardly a disgrace.

£9/10m plus add ons for a keeper that

A) cost £1m
B) gave 6 years fantastic service
C) was 31 (?)
D) has a dodgy shoulder
E) poor with his feet
F) never had best games in his limited England appearances

I loved Pope too for us but some players you don’t stand in their way after getting great value from them, like Tarks, mee, trips etc…..

[jojomk1]

If it’s a rebuild under Parker I wouldn’t be too disappointed if he’s up to the task.
I can’t say any of the players you’ve named connect with me like Rodrigues, Gudmundsson and Brownhill.
We’ve had teams built before where teamwork and spirit have compensated for quality. Not that the quality in the Championship is that frightening.
Here’s one Burnley fan who can’t wait for the clear out and won’t be shedding any tears whoever it involves
#givememyteamback

It's not a rebuild that is required - it's a thinning down on numbers

Even if you moved on the eleven or so players I mentioned and you are still left with a squad of 26

Lose either of Trafford, Berge and O'Shea and they do need replacing with mirrored quality

Plus an additional CM and LB would be suffice for the start of the season

[brazilianclaret]

I do not get how some people are happy for a full squad rebuild 6 days before the season starts. Basically a wasted pre-season then if that's the case

22/23 we were in a position where we had to start Costello in the opening game

Benson, Tella, Zaroury, Beyer and Churlinov were all signed after that

With the squad we have and what we had then even major outgoings and a few incomings we are still arguably in a much better position than at that point

[CrosspoolClarets]

I think Berge is great but if we keep Cullen (whose level appears to be that of a yoyo club) we only need one of Brownhill or Berge, so one needs to go who can get the most fee. Backup should be Massengo etc who will feel he needs 1,000 minutes next season minimum.

Same argument in defence - I like O’Shea a lot, but again if we have an offer around the £20m mark (not unrealistic given age, height, speed etc) then we have more than adequate replacements - Beyer, Ekdal or Al Dakhil.

Trafford has obviously agitated for a move. So he will go. I suspect he feels he isn’t loved by the fanbase.

Weghorst will also go for about £5m, probably to Turkey.

If that and a few fringe outgoings is the extent of it, we will be fine. I still expect a large fee striker incoming, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Parker has persuaded the club to raise the cash by wheeling and dealing. I’m not fully confident yet we have a 20 goal man, and pre season certainly isn’t seeing the net bulge regularly.

[claretspice]

I think Berge is great but if we keep Cullen (whose level appears to be that of a yoyo club) we only need one of Brownhill or Berge, so one needs to go who can get the most fee. Backup should be Massengo etc who will feel he needs 1,000 minutes next season minimum.

Same argument in defence - I like O’Shea a lot, but again if we have an offer around the £20m mark (not unrealistic given age, height, speed etc) then we have more than adequate replacements - Beyer, Ekdal or Al Dakhil.

Trafford has obviously agitated for a move. So he will go. I suspect he feels he isn’t loved by the fanbase.

Weghorst will also go for about £5m, probably to Turkey.

If that and a few fringe outgoings is the extent of it, we will be fine. I still expect a large fee striker incoming, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Parker has persuaded the club to raise the cash by wheeling and dealing. I’m not fully confident yet we have a 20 goal man, and pre season certainly isn’t seeing the net bulge regularly.

If Brownhill is staying then ideally he signs a new contract. I'm not sure Massengo can understudy him - he and Cullen lack the stature to be a partnership in the centre of midfield, particularly in the Championship. You need someone taller and with more presence and if Berge (or Brownhill) leaves I'd expect us to be looking for someone in that mould (noting that we do have Ramsey, who has some of those tools, to return at some point in the autumn).

[Poulton-le-Claret]

22/23 we were in a position where we had to start Costello in the opening game

Benson, Tella, Zaroury, Beyer and Churlinov were all signed after that

With the squad we have and what we had then even major outgoings and a few incomings we are still arguably in a much better position than at that point

I should have clarified myself better. I don't think we are facing a rebuild myself. I am just questioning those who think we are and are seemingly happy about the idea.

I think we will lose 2/3 players we would rather keep (+ many more who we don't need and need to be moved on).

[CrosspoolClarets]

If Brownhill is staying then ideally he signs a new contract. I'm not sure Massengo can understudy him - he and Cullen lack the stature to be a partnership in the centre of midfield, particularly in the Championship. You need someone taller and with more presence and if Berge (or Brownhill) leaves I'd expect us to be looking for someone in that mould (noting that we do have Ramsey, who has some of those tools, to return at some point in the autumn).

I take your point that Massengo cannot understudy both Cullen and Brownhill. I do feel though that we will run with only two natural centre mids playing, in that 4-2-3-1, and I’m not sure we can justify an expensive bench signing to supplement who we have now. Ramsey, Massengo and if necessary an out of position player would probably suffice if either of our first choice are missing.

(we don’t know yet how easy we find the season - if we over-perform, we can afford a few experiments at times)

[northeastclaret]

Whatever rebuilding we do has to include signing more physical players with the mentality to tough it out in the championship.

VK has left us on the whole with an imbalance of players lacking that toughness at the expense of so called flair.

Without more of that mental toughness in the team I believe we could struggle to be as dominant as we hope.

[Ric_C]

Whatever rebuilding we do has to include signing more physical players with the mentality to tough it out in the championship.

VK has left us on the whole with an imbalance of players lacking that toughness at the expense of so called flair.

Without more of that mental toughness in the team I believe we could struggle to be as dominant as we hope.

I'd say Esteve, Ekdal, O'Shea, Cullen, Berge, Brownhill, Jay Rod & JBG are all either physically or mentally up to the challenge, so we are not too bad on that front

[RVclaret]

I take your point that Massengo cannot understudy both Cullen and Brownhill. I do feel though that we will run with only two natural centre mids playing, in that 4-2-3-1, and I’m not sure we can justify an expensive bench signing to supplement who we have now. Ramsey, Massengo and if necessary an out of position player would probably suffice if either of our first choice are missing.

(we don’t know yet how easy we find the season - if we over-perform, we can afford a few experiments at times)

You’re missing JBG too who I reckon will play centrally quite often this season.

One of our better away performances last season was at Forest with a midfield 3 of Cullen, Brownhill & Amdouni too.

[Mattster]

If Brownhill is staying then ideally he signs a new contract. I'm not sure Massengo can understudy him - he and Cullen lack the stature to be a partnership in the centre of midfield, particularly in the Championship. You need someone taller and with more presence and if Berge (or Brownhill) leaves I'd expect us to be looking for someone in that mould (noting that we do have Ramsey, who has some of those tools, to return at some point in the autumn).

Massengo and Brownhill are the same height.

[Big Vinny K]

Hardly a disgrace.

£9/10m plus add ons for a keeper that

A) cost £1m
B) gave 6 years fantastic service
C) was 31 (?)
D) has a dodgy shoulder
E) poor with his feet
F) never had best games in his limited England appearances

I loved Pope too for us but some players you don’t stand in their way after getting great value from them, like Tarks, mee, trips etc…..

You missed the most important one.
Nick Pope had one year left ion his contract.
If we had turned down the offer from Newcastle it basically means we would have kept him for around 4 months at which point he could sign a pre contract agreement which would have allowed him to walk away for nothing in the summer.

Getting £10m to £11m for him was not a bad deal at all and I don’t understand why people think we were robbed by Newcastle.

As for the fee we got for Chris Wood I’d say that is up there with the best deal we have ever had in our history in terms of his age, his form and the amount of profit we made. It was massively over priced for a player Newcastle did not need and he ended up being their 3rd or 4th striker for the rest of the season. They did it to weaken Burnley. He was never going to be a regular in their team.

[Holtyclaret]

If Brownhill is staying then ideally he signs a new contract. I'm not sure Massengo can understudy him - he and Cullen lack the stature to be a partnership in the centre of midfield, particularly in the Championship. You need someone taller and with more presence and if Berge (or Brownhill) leaves I'd expect us to be looking for someone in that mould (noting that we do have Ramsey, who has some of those tools, to return at some point in the autumn).

How did Cullen and Browny go last time in champ?

Height and stature are far more important in the prem.

[brunlea99]

How did Cullen and Browny go last time in champ?

Height and stature are far more important in the prem.

Imagine how good Messi would be, if only he was taller.

[northeastclaret]

I'd say Esteve, Ekdal, O'Shea, Cullen, Berge, Brownhill, Jay Rod & JBG are all either physically or mentally up to the challenge, so we are not too bad on that front

I agree but only four may be playing on Monday.

[claretspice]

Massengo and Brownhill are the same height.

Whenever I've seen them on a pitch massengo has looked notably shorter than Brownhill, and certainly more lightweight.

Noone is saying you need a team of giants but unless you are exceptionally good, you need balance. We had that last time, and there were plenty of times when Cork's ability to win second balls was important.

[LincsWoldsClaret]

Berge will be closer to £20m (if he goes) rather than some of the figures quoted here.

[ecc]

Berge won't sign for NH. Were he Dutch I might possibly think twice about it but I would be staggered if Ratcliffe agreed to that (and we wouldn't sell him under £30m/£35m).

[Elizabeth]

I do not get how some people are happy for a full squad rebuild 6 days before the season starts. Basically a wasted pre-season then if that's the case

I don't see how the pre-season cannot have been anything other than difficult considering all the questions marks over an oversized squad and the real likelihood that recognised first- teamers could be playing for other clubs 4-5 games into the season. I don't envy Parker and his assistants in their early team selections.
Things will need rebuilding for the short term as well as the long term. Once the dust has settled I think we'll see an improvement hopefully by the second half of the season by which time I'm confident the team will be more settled and his team building and tactics will start to pay dividends.

[boatshed bill]

I don't see how the pre-season cannot have been anything other than difficult considering all the questions marks over an oversized squad and the real likelihood that recognised first- teamers could be playing for other clubs 4-5 games into the season. I don't envy Parker and his assistants in their early team selections.
Things will need rebuilding for the short term as well as the long term. Once the dust has settled I think we'll see an improvement hopefully by the second half of the season by which time I'm confident the team will be more settled and his team building and tactics will start to pay dividends.

Not so dissimilar to when VK took over (except for the quantity of players we currently have as opposed to then).
But putting a settled side together before the window closes is very difficult, almost impossible, given the likely number of players who may yet leave.
We may have a similar start to two seasons ago, but look what happened.

[ecc]

I don't see how the pre-season cannot have been anything other than difficult considering all the questions marks over an oversized squad and the real likelihood that recognised first- teamers could be playing for other clubs 4-5 games into the season. I don't envy Parker and his assistants in their early team selections.
Things will need rebuilding for the short term as well as the long term. Once the dust has settled I think we'll see an improvement hopefully by the second half of the season by which time I'm confident the team will be more settled and his team building and tactics will start to pay dividends.

Hi Elizabeth,

Fully agree with you. Huge task on SP's hands. I suspect that some of the reported candidates might well have been put off when they started to study the situation.

The length of negotiations with SP presumably involved thrashing out what could, what should and what might happen. Reading an old article about his departure from Bournemouth, it was essentially a fall-out with the Chairman about the rebuilding of the squad following promotion to the PL.

Here it's different in that we've gone in the opposite direction but I would imagine SP wanted assurances on who he might lose, who he could keep and who might arrive.

I just hope fans give the man time. My gutfeeling is he'll do a good job.

He'll need the backing of the fans.

[morninbob]

Second bid in for O'Shea according to Graham bailey.
https://www.hitc.com/brentford-make-new ... nce-grows/

[TopCat]

Surely we will take advantage of some loans??

[Conroy92]

Ben Mee back in return and 20-30 million. I'm sold.

[billyhamilton82]

Second bid in for O'Shea according to Graham bailey.
https://www.hitc.com/brentford-make-new ... nce-grows/

I must have missed the first bid.

How much are they offering?