Mission to Burnley 2

[123EasyasBFC]

Alan pace looked visibly uneasy when he was being called out for the plan of buying young to sell for profit by David checketts.

There’s nothing wrong with not liking being wrong but it’s clear that Pace struggles with being wrong and people not going with his idea.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

That Forest handball still irks me and yet some ( the usual clowns ) said it should have been chalked off

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Something else as I watch the first episode ( and taking it back to the last series ) I think Alan's "chuckle" is nothing more than a nervous trigger, nothing more and nothing less

Heck people that know me consider me a reyt bollshie bardsteward, however I'll still give that chuckle if I'm unsure!

[RammyClaret61]

That Forest handball still irks me and yet some ( the usual clowns ) said it should have been chalked off

Just seeing that prick Rob Jones irked me.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Good watch the first episode. Charlie Taylor what a model professional playing for a manager who doesn’t want or rate you but still performing. Foster really was struggling you could see it in his eyes. But like the fat bloke who
Sorts transfers said. “We need experience, we need men” spot on . Kids trying to play under that pressure was absurd.


Although painful to relive last season it’s already a better watch than the last series

[Stonehouse]

After the Luton game watching Pace thinking that he can change the result by legal means just shows how far the Americans are in cloud cuckoo land and I don’t care what anyone says I think the sooner they’re gone even if we get relegated the better we will be .We are in a similar state to that lot down the road.as guys have mentioned in the past we as fans are as far disconnected from this club as we’ve ever been.

[superdimitri]

So, anyone got a link?

[Row x]

After the Luton game watching Pace thinking that he can change the result by legal means just shows how far the Americans are in cloud cuckoo land and I don’t care what anyone says I think the sooner they’re gone even if we get relegated the better we will be .We are in a similar state to that lot down the road.as guys have mentioned in the past we as fans are as far disconnected from this club as we’ve ever been.

He was clearly feeling like most fans that night, and over reacted

You obviously know how that feels

[ClaretTony]

All about opinions, and I was of the same impression until I watched that. He clearly cares for me.

You see things I clearly don't see

[ClaretTony]

Alan pace looked visibly uneasy when he was being called out for the plan of buying young to sell for profit by David checketts.

There’s nothing wrong with not liking being wrong but it’s clear that Pace struggles with being wrong and people not going with his idea.

His face dropped didn't it when Checketts spoke and told him that the model wasn't working.

[ClaretTony]

On another note it was good to see CT in deep conversation

At what point did you spot me? I was filmed ahead of the Sheffield United home game but that wasn't used (thankfully). I didn't spot myself though.

[123EasyasBFC]

His face dropped didn't it when Checketts spoke and told him that the model wasn't working.

Yeah it did and the fact checketts clearly had done his research about Burnley in previous premier league seasons. I wonder how many of our board know about our premier league history.

Matt Williams does come across well but he completely mis understood what checketts was saying. Of course we had 5 players who you’d say are prem level players but checketts meant is there 5 players who will stay at Burnley through the whole ‘project’

I nearly switched off when pace said ‘one day we will win the champions league’

[helmclaret]

I love it how Williams et al think the transfer window is ‘hard work.’ People work long hours all year round in loads of industries and are up and out well before 730am!

Overall I enjoyed it, like the first series. No major surprises. I think Pace cares massively - he has to. He’s living and breathing it everyday. He’s naive at times but running a football
club is a huge responsibility and he needs to make a success of if.

[Row x]

You see things I clearly don't see

I think he cares passionately about the club, without doubt he's made mistakes, but who hasn't. If he didn't care he would be sat back in America, invisible to fans, like a lot of other owners do.

[helmclaret]

At what point did you spot me? I was filmed ahead of the Sheffield United home game but that wasn't used (thankfully). I didn't spot myself though.

Luton (a) in the stand before the game - looks
like you were getting something off your chest!

[ClaretTony]

I think he cares passionately about the club, without doubt he's made mistakes, but who hasn't. If he didn't care he would be sat back in America, invisible to fans, like a lot of other owners do.

Back in America - he'd have to pay other people to run the club then.

[RVclaret]

Back in America - he'd have to pay other people to run the club then.

He’s been happy to pay for advisory / consultancy services from the likes of Mike Baldwin and Lee Mooney, to help him run the club.

[jojomk1]

"We need men"

The whole season summed up in three small words

[ClaretTony]

He’s been happy to pay for advisory / consultancy services from the likes of Mike Baldwin and Lee Mooney, to help him run the club.

Lee Mooney is apparently on the club staff now but he's removed a lot of staff and not replaced them. I assume you mean Dave Baldwin and if so, he was here for a very short time at the beginning.

[ClaretTony]

Luton (a) in the stand before the game - looks
like you were getting something off your chest!

I'd never have spotted me - was talking to my brother.

[Conroysleftfoot]

Must admit I was concerned for Matt Williams during the January transfer window, he was under a lot of pressure.

[burnmark]

I’ve only watched the first episode but my takes from it:

- Felt extremely sorry for Foster. Judging from the footage shown and from what Foster said about him, Kompany dealt with him excellently. I liked the chat between Pace and Foster in the corridor also. Excellent man management from both of them
- The amount of work that goes on behind the scenes is astounding and something a lot of us will take for granted, from the number of staff and the work they do on the recruitment front, the transfer dealings with Williams and co to the detailed conversations between medical/sport science staff surrounding individual players outputs, quality of training etc.
- I know it was only the first episode, but no qualms as yet about Kompany’s work or manner. In fact the way it showed him deal with the Taylor and Maatsen situation and with Bruun Larson was commendable. Nicely dovetailed together with his talk to the team after the Luton game. Yes he swears a lot in his team talks but so did Bellamy and Jackson. Cullen also culpable in the tunnel at Spurs. Is it needed? Probably not but I dare say it happens in 90% of adult changing rooms across the leagues.

[gandhisflipflop]

"We need men"

The whole season summed up in three small words

If Matt Williams knew we needed men, why didn’t he go and sign any? Was it that VK wouldn’t have allowed it? Also, I’m not convinced that Lee Mooney comes across as well as people say he did on here. He talked about the percentages of survival if we signed x player or y player. How could he possibly know that? Football isn’t just about statistics, and I feel we are focussing far to much on statistics and removing the whole dynamics that surround the game and that goes for the broader football spectrum as a whole not just our club. Lyle Foster is a good example. According to their metrics, he would be ‘the cheapest striker in the PL’ and all their data pointed to him doing well at that level. Now he didn’t do badly don’t get me wrong, but it wouldn’t and couldn’t have foreseen him being away from the club for a chunk of the season with mental health issues.

[blatherwickstattoos]

If Matt Williams knew we needed men, why didn’t he go and sign any? Was it that VK wouldn’t have allowed it? Also, I’m not convinced that Lee Mooney comes across as well as people say he did on here. He talked about the percentages of survival if we signed x player or y player. How could he possibly know that? Football isn’t just about statistics, and I feel we are focussing far to much on statistics and removing the whole dynamics that surround the game and that goes for the broader football spectrum as a whole not just our club. Lyle Foster is a good example. According to their metrics, he would be ‘the cheapest striker in the PL’ and all their data pointed to him doing well at that level. Now he didn’t do badly don’t get me wrong, but it wouldn’t and couldn’t have foreseen him being away from the club for a chunk of the season with mental health issues.

I did think this too. If the analytic process was full proof then it would have surely flagged up issues with discipline and other issues. One thing we can’t knock dyche for was the type of characters he signed over this MUD analysis stuff.


Foster did look extremely sharp early in the season before his illness kicked in. Forgot how good he was actually until I saw the first episode last night.

[ClaretTony]

If Matt Williams knew we needed men, why didn’t he go and sign any? Was it that VK wouldn’t have allowed it? Also, I’m not convinced that Lee Mooney comes across as well as people say he did on here. He talked about the percentages of survival if we signed x player or y player. How could he possibly know that? Football isn’t just about statistics, and I feel we are focussing far to much on statistics and removing the whole dynamics that surround the game and that goes for the broader football spectrum as a whole not just our club. Lyle Foster is a good example. According to their metrics, he would be ‘the cheapest striker in the PL’ and all their data pointed to him doing well at that level. Now he didn’t do badly don’t get me wrong, but it wouldn’t and couldn’t have foreseen him being away from the club for a chunk of the season with mental health issues.

Matt Williams does the deals, he doesn't select which players we are trying to sign. I share your concerns re: Mooney too.

[123EasyasBFC]

I did think this too. If the analytic process was full proof then it would have surely flagged up issues with discipline and other issues. One thing we can’t knock dyche for was the type of characters he signed over this MUD analysis stuff.


Foster did look extremely sharp early in the season before his illness kicked in. Forgot how good he was actually until I saw the first episode last night.

You are extremely hooked on MUD analysis stuff, it’s clear from the doc that we don’t purely sign players based of one analysis system, it’s a lot more in depth than that.

The issue isn’t the system we used to sign players, it clearly identified young players with potential that kompany wanted.

The issue was there wasn’t a David checketts talking to kompany and pace before the season started saying the type of player we need. Or even Matt Williams saying we need experienced heads

[123EasyasBFC]

Matt Williams does the deals, he doesn't select which players we are trying to sign. I share your concerns re: Mooney too.

It’s interesting how people view things, because I actually thought Mooney comes across well and seems to understand and have an intelligent football mind. Yes he’s all statistics driven but that it was Alan Pace wants (not that I agree with it being that way).

Mooney played a key role in appointing Parker along with Jenkins

[CoolClaret]

Just finished it - really enjoyed it actually and thought that the production quality of this season's series is leagues apart from last year's. There are notable improvements in footage quality, camera stabilisation, narration, imagery/colour grading, and music selection.
The cinematography during Dyche's return was particularly impressive, reminiscent of an old western with a gunslinger returning to town with his posse.

I'm not as convinced about Lee Mooney's portrayal as others seem to be. I thought that his role was limited to consulting on player profiles and analysing raw data for player modelling, but it appears to me that his influence is more extensive than I expected.
In episode 3, covering the January transfer window, Mooney presented what I believe to be a deliberately disingenuous claim. He suggested a false dichotomy between buying a young squad to develop and increase asset value, or acquiring journeymen on short-term deals, as though it's a binary choice between the two and imo was deflecting blame for the current points return relative to money spent.

Mooney further stated that signing a more established player would cost a minimum of £15 million, implying this was a financial obstacle. However, this argument seems inconsistent with the club's willingness to invest similar amounts in raw, undeveloped talents in the summer window.

His data-led approach, while I do believe is valuable, especially for finding 'diamonds in the rough' (Luca etc), appears to dominate decision-making to an extent that I think loses site of the bigger picture.

As for the owners, the scenes around the drum remain embarrassing as ever as does the claim of wanting to 'get legal' following the Luton game. I still have concerns about pretty much all of the board, they may have vast experience and knowledge in finance but are still pretty clueless about association football in England.

Matt Williams, similar to Season 1, comes across as a great operator who doesn't tolerate nonsense from agents. I'm really pleased he's at the club in his current role and I think he's an asset to the club.

On Lyle; I felt deeply for Lyle and hope he's over the worst of his struggles. It was enlightening to hear VK describe him as our 'best player' when he's fit and firing on all cylinders – a sentiment I agree with and to VK's credit (as I thought during the season), he handled that situation extremely well.

Overall, this was a much more enjoyable season than Season 1 for me as a viewer, though obviously not as a fan given the on-field results.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Spoiler-ish alert?

Finished the second series and thought it was miles better than the first. Think VK handled certain situations very well but came across as very naive on the whole (and far too stubborn for his own good).

Thought Mooney came across OK to be honest. He is a data guy and that’s what he hangs his hat on. Interesting to see the recruitment department at work (briefly).

The flashpoints were an interesting bit of added context. Don’t doubt they go on at every club but it was good to see some passion spill over esp Foster v Cork (and I didn’t quite understand why Cork was getting upset).

Checketts calling our Pace’s strategy clearly stung Pace but, again, good to see that people on the board were willing to challenge (although could have been useful last summer!).

Matt Williams came across very well again and he’s clearly the one person who knows how a football club is run.

Kompany’s interview at the end was much better than the short message he gave to fans when he departed. I do believe he gave everything (and I was lucky enough to see his work ethic first hand at the training ground towards the end of the season). Still peeved he jumped ship despite all his talk of projects etc but that’s life.

Pace and Ball’s moody reaction to fans leaving showed they were completely out of touch with supporter sentiment and probably revealed the attitude to the supporters many of us have long thought they held. Not sure what the point of Ball is and never have been.

Clear the first series was a Pace/ALK promo and this one really isn’t. Guess that’s why the club haven’t bothered pushing it.

[123EasyasBFC]

Spoiler-ish alert?

Finished the second series and thought it was miles better than the first. Think VK handled certain situations very well but came across as very naive on the whole (and far too stubborn for his own good).

Thought Mooney came across OK to be honest. He is a data guy and that’s what he hangs his hat on. Interesting to see the recruitment department at work (briefly).

The flashpoints were an interesting bit of added context. Don’t doubt they go on at every club but it was good to see some passion spill over esp Foster v Cork (and I didn’t quite understand why Cork was getting upset).

Checketts calling our Pace’s strategy clearly stung Pace but, again, good to see that people on the board were willing to challenge (although could have been useful last summer!).

Matt Williams came across very well again and he’s clearly the one person who knows how a football club is run.

Kompany’s interview at the end was much better than the short message he gave to fans when he departed. I do believe he gave everything (and I was lucky enough to see his work ethic first hand at the training ground towards the end of the season). Still peeved he jumped ship despite all his talk of projects etc but that’s life.

Pace and Ball’s moody reaction to fans leaving showed they were completely out of touch with supporter sentiment and probably revealed the attitude to the supporters many of us have long thought they held. Not sure what the point of Ball is and never have been.

Clear the first series was a Pace/ALK promo and this one really isn’t. Guess that’s why the club haven’t bothered pushing it.

Russell ball the estate agent turned fan experience guy, what could possibly go wrong

[123EasyasBFC]

Just finished it - really enjoyed it actually and thought that the production quality of this season's series is leagues apart from last year's. There are notable improvements in footage quality, camera stabilisation, narration, imagery/colour grading, and music selection.
The cinematography during Dyche's return was particularly impressive, reminiscent of an old western with a gunslinger returning to town with his posse.

I'm not as convinced about Lee Mooney's portrayal as others seem to be. I thought that his role was limited to consulting on player profiles and analysing raw data for player modelling, but it appears to me that his influence is more extensive than I expected.
In episode 3, covering the January transfer window, Mooney presented what I believe to be a deliberately disingenuous claim. He suggested a false dichotomy between buying a young squad to develop and increase asset value, or acquiring journeymen on short-term deals, as though it's a binary choice between the two and imo was deflecting blame for the current points return relative to money spent.

Mooney further stated that signing a more established player would cost a minimum of £15 million, implying this was a financial obstacle. However, this argument seems inconsistent with the club's willingness to invest similar amounts in raw, undeveloped talents in the summer window.

His data-led approach, while I do believe is valuable, especially for finding 'diamonds in the rough' (Luca etc), appears to dominate decision-making to an extent that I think loses site of the bigger picture.

As for the owners, the scenes around the drum remain embarrassing as ever as does the claim of wanting to 'get legal' following the Luton game. I still have concerns about pretty much all of the board, they may have vast experience and knowledge in finance but are still pretty clueless about association football in England.

Matt Williams, similar to Season 1, comes across as a great operator who doesn't tolerate nonsense from agents. I'm really pleased he's at the club in his current role and I think he's an asset to the club.

On Lyle; I felt deeply for Lyle and hope he's over the worst of his struggles. It was enlightening to hear VK describe him as our 'best player' when he's fit and firing on all cylinders – a sentiment I agree with and to VK's credit (as I thought during the season), he handled that situation extremely well.

Overall, this was a much more enjoyable season than Season 1 for me as a viewer, though obviously not as a fan given the on-field results.

There’s a difference from spending 15m on a raw talent in January when we had a low % of staying up then there was in the summer. I thought that scene made total sense

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Russell ball the estate agent turned fan experience guy, what could possibly go wrong

And we’re lumbered with him because he’s Pace’s oldest UK mate who he brought in to help with a property aspect of the Sheff United takeover that never happened and he felt obliged to give him a job when that fell through.

[RVclaret]

To be fair I cracked up when Ball mentioned him telling Pace we could put an image of a drum on the big screens when the atmosphere goes flat.

[CoolClaret]

There’s a difference from spending 15m on a raw talent in January when we had a low % of staying up then there was in the summer. I thought that scene made total sense

It wasn't about spending 15m (minimum) on raw talent in January though was it? It was about getting a more 'established' player, my point being, couldn't we have done more of that in the summer?

[123EasyasBFC]

And we’re lumbered with him because he’s Pace’s oldest UK mate who he brought in to help with a property aspect of the Sheff United takeover that never happened and he felt obliged to give him a job when that fell through.

Yeah I knew they were friends. Surely there’s another role they could have given him, to get Jordan north on a zoom call to talk about the atmosphere it embarrassing. Not being out of games at half time would be a massive help to atmosphere

[ClaretAL]

At what point did you spot me? I was filmed ahead of the Sheffield United home game but that wasn't used (thankfully). I didn't spot myself though.

I think it was episode 2 on a stairway having a conversation with another bloke. It was quite dark where you was stood but I will try and find it again

[123EasyasBFC]

It wasn't about spending 15m (minimum) on raw talent in January though was it? It was about getting a more 'established' player, my point being, couldn't we have done more of that in the summer?

Of course they could of done that in the summer but as a collective the decided to do down the raw talent route instead of buying the sander berge types and with the benefit of hindsight it was the wrong decision.

Should we get promoted this season if the cameras where running during a Parker led premier league transfer window I bet the targets would be different.

The two Jan striker targets where Dia from salernitina who had Milan wanting him and quoting 15m and then fofana who was a loan signing, financially it would of been crazy to spend 15m on a striker in Jan.

To me the whole issue is Pace doesn’t seem to listen to any feedback/advise or criticism unless kompany was speaking to him

[ClaretTony]

I think it was episode 2 on a stairway having a conversation with another bloke. It was quite dark where you was stood but I will try and find it again

I’ve got it now. Helmclaret pointed it out. I’m with my brother at Luton.

[CoolClaret]

Of course they could of done that in the summer but as a collective the decided to do down the raw talent route instead of buying the sander berge types and with the benefit of hindsight it was the wrong decision.

Should we get promoted this season if the cameras where running during a Parker led premier league transfer window I bet the targets would be different.

The two Jan striker targets where Dia from salernitina who had Milan wanting him and quoting 15m and then fofana who was a loan signing, financially it would of been crazy to spend 15m on a striker in Jan.

To me the whole issue is Pace doesn’t seem to listen to any feedback/advise or criticism unless kompany was speaking to him

Was it as a collective though, or was it delusions of grandeur put onto Pace/the board from VK & Mooney?

Definitely agree with your last sentence.

[Burnley1989]

Checketts calling our Pace’s strategy clearly stung Pace but, again, good to see that people on the board were willing to challenge (although could have been useful last summer!).

Haven't watched it yet but glad to hear that, the most successful companies should have boardrooms full of people that question and challenge decisions when things aren't going well, not just 'yes men' that agree with everything the senior says. (Providing youre diplomatic)

[Big Vinny K]

Would be interesting to see how much some of these guys are getting paid - especially the likes of Russell Ball.

If you are going to have a role in a football club in charge of the fan experience I’d say the 2 most important criteria would be :

1) you are a fan
2) you understand a bit about football

Despite his surname RB is qualified for neither.

On a general point it would be interesting to see the breakdown in staff of senior management type roles compared to under the last ownership. We seem to have a lot more new senior titles and rules under Pace. And they don’t look or sound like people who are on insignificant salaries.
When you look at the clubs finances it’s not easy to see what they have contributed to the club since the takeover. There’s no new meaningful revenue lines - I see we are announcing various partnership deals but don’t see our commercial revenues changing.

All looks a bit smoke and mirrors to me - and I do not see any of this 5 or 10 year plan stuff. I could not even tell you what the end goal or the “project” is. Though tbh it may be nothing more complicated than to make as much money as they can over the shortest possible period. There’s certainly no signs yet of any kind of legacy or long lasting cultural or identity changes. I haven’t got the first clue what our identity is right now.

[123EasyasBFC]

Was it as a collective though, or was it delusions of grandeur put onto Pace/the board from VK & Mooney?

Definitely agree with your last sentence.

To me it was kompanys idea and Mooney obviously agreed but was he in a position to say no we need to go down the more experienced route of players. They just got it completely wrong.

Would have been nice to see a board meeting regarding transfer window early in the summer to see if someone like checketts said anything because he seemed to be the only one who understood.

Williams does come across well in his practice and ability to do his job but to me he’s another one who didn’t like to disagree with pace or kompany

[CoolClaret]

Would be interesting to see how much some of these guys are getting paid - especially the likes of Russell Ball.

If you are going to have a role in a football club in charge of the fan experience I’d say the 2 most important criteria would be :

1) you are a fan
2) you understand a bit about football

Despite his surname RB is qualified for neither.

On a general point it would be interesting to see the breakdown in staff of senior management type roles compared to under the last ownership. We seem to have a lot more new senior titles and rules under Pace. And they don’t look or sound like people who are on insignificant salaries.
When you look at the clubs finances it’s not easy to see what they have contributed to the club since the takeover. There’s no new meaningful revenue lines - I see we are announcing various partnership deals but don’t see our commercial revenues changing.

All looks a bit smoke and mirrors to me - and I do not see any of this 5 or 10 year plan stuff. I could not even tell you what the end goal or the “project” is. Though tbh it may be nothing more complicated than to make as much money as they can over the shortest possible period. There’s certainly no signs yet of any kind of legacy or long lasting cultural or identity changes. I haven’t got the first clue what our identity is right now.

That's precisely what I think and have stated before.

The commercial revenue streams aren't as high as they were pre covid times, as the only thing that matters is results on the pitch. The rest is insignificant or 'smoke and mirrors' as you put it.

I also conclude that the only viable plan that I can gather is to make as much money as possible over the short term, then sell up. My opinion will change if I see evidence for more long term planning but there's no evidence of that on display.

[CoolClaret]

Could someone tell me which episode/minute Dave Checketts voices his opinion/concerns? I seem to have missed that bit...

[ClaretAL]

Could someone tell me which episode/minute Dave Checketts voices his opinion/concerns? I seem to have missed that bit...

Episode 4 I think

[CoolClaret]

Episode 4 I think

Thanks yeah, it's right at the beginning of EP4 - think I was in the kitchen when that segment played.

He was absolutely spot on with everything that he said.

[Claret Till I Die]

Anyone else seen all 4 episodes on Virgin yet? I watched the first one yesterday dinner but when I tried to put the 2nd one on last night it said it wasn't available until Monday.

[Ightenhill_Claret]

Yeah I think it’s episode 4 at the board meeting. Pace looks uncomfortable being told that we took the wrong path (or it looked like at that point we’d taken the wrong path).

[Bosscat]

Watching Episode 2 and that rant at JBG is shocking ...

[CoolClaret]

Yeah I think it’s episode 4 at the board meeting. Pace looks uncomfortable being told that we took the wrong path (or it looked like at that point we’d taken the wrong path).

Yep - even doubled down a bit suggesting that Brighton spent 'decent money' but not 'a lot of money'...

Hmm - pretty certain £500 million is a lot of money. Crikey.