Mission to Burnley 2

[Swizzlestick]

The doc confirms my belief that Pace still wanted Kompany to stay even as they were negotiating compensation, it is also not clear at what point Kompany falls out with Bellamy. They seem to have a working relationship right up to the end of the season.

I’m not convinced they massively fell out at all. Bellamy said he had an hour long phone conversation with Kompany just before taking the Wales job too so if there was a disagreement, it appears to have been quickly sorted.

[helmclaret]

I’m not convinced either. They were smiling and hugging after one game towards the end of the season. Probably had an issue during the season but sorted it out and agreed Bellamy would leave anyway at the end of the season.

[NewClaret]

I’m not convinced either. They were smiling and hugging after one game towards the end of the season. Probably had an issue during the season but sorted it out and agreed Bellamy would leave anyway at the end of the season.

Just watched it all. Will post some thoughts in the morning.

On this point though, I’m the Wales interview he said he’d decided towards the end of last season that he wanted to be a number one somewhere. That may of course be because he fell out with Kompany but given how they were on the pitch/touchline together in the last part of the season, I’m not completely convinced.

[Jakubclaret]

When cameras are zooming at you or when you know you are being filmed it isn't natural it's all mostly fake. To have proper insightful knowledge or analysis of body language you need to be there when the cameras aren't filming to really know about relationships. You can easily portray people to be best buddies when they can't stand each other.

[beddie]

Regarding Bellamy, perhaps there wasn’t any fall out but more of a case of he didn’t want to move abroad but stay closer to his roots. I watched Ep 2 last night, again it didn’t do a lot for me, very repetitious which I expected it would be.

[FeedTheArf]

Anybody managed to find this online yet?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Has everyone seen the clip of foster in the dressing room.

Got a totally different perspective on the bloke. He really gets it, he’s exactly what Burnley need.

Think he might be favourite player now

[Burnley1989]

When cameras are zooming at you or when you know you are being filmed it isn't natural it's all mostly fake. To have proper insightful knowledge or analysis of body language you need to be there when the cameras aren't filming to really know about relationships. You can easily portray people to be best buddies when they can't stand each other.

You don't half waffle some shite

[Carport]

The meetings around the drum are some of the most tone deaf things I’ve heard when it comes to this town.

Russell Ball saying after the Sheff United game that’s the kind of atmosphere that shows what it could be. Yeah funny that what happens when you win games of football.

It might be the exception these days but there are some clubs where the fans generate an incredible atmosphere regardless of the current score.

[RVclaret]

It might be the exception these days but there are some clubs where the fans generate an incredible atmosphere regardless of the current score.

Yep, interestingly Blackpool, with their errrr, drum, have a constantly good home atmosphere, they properly get it going behind the goal there.

[quoonbeatz]

thats not an atmosphere, it's literally just some herbert with a drum.

[superdimitri]

Anybody managed to find this online yet?

Nope, still looking.

[RVclaret]

thats not an atmosphere, it's literally just some herbert with a drum.

Most European crowds, whose atmosphere’s are levels above English, have drums. I attended Napoli games quite frequently when I lived there and it was unreal. So it’s hardly the most outlandish suggestion. I’m sure if it had come from someone born in Bon’leh the reaction would have been slightly different.

[quoonbeatz]

it works in europe because they have an entire section of the stand bouncing up and down for 2 hours non stop, half of them are hardly bothered about the match, they're there to be part of that group. We don't have that here and we're not likely to because thats just not what english fans are like. And thats ok but it's why drums are awful at english games and stifle atmosphere rather than generate it.

[Big Vinny K]

Yep, interestingly Blackpool, with their errrr, drum, have a constantly good home atmosphere, they properly get it going behind the goal there.

I think the drum was bought for them by the Oystons as a peace offering after the 5 year boycott and the ground has been bouncing ever since.
It’s contributed massively to their recent success.

[Claretitus]

I think the drum was bought for them by the Oystons as a peace offering after the 5 year boycott and the ground has been bouncing ever since.
It’s contributed massively to their recent success.

Recent success? That must have passed by most people. They were in League 1, went up to the Championship for 1 season, then went straight back down. Hardly success.

[Swizzlestick]

You may have missed some sarcasm there.

PNE have a drum and it sounds awful. Kills any atmosphere that builds if anything.

[ClaretTony]

I’m not convinced they massively fell out at all. Bellamy said he had an hour long phone conversation with Kompany just before taking the Wales job too so if there was a disagreement, it appears to have been quickly sorted.

All I know is that Kompany was replacing Bellamy and was bringing in Jensen. Had Kompany stayed, Bellamy was gone. As it turns out, both of them have gone.

[123EasyasBFC]

All I know is that Kompany was replacing Bellamy and was bringing in Jensen. Had Kompany stayed, Bellamy was gone. As it turns out, both of them have gone.

So it could be that they hadn’t fallen out, Bellamy could have been replaced because he said he wanted to try and be a number 1 somewhere

[ClaretTony]

So it could be that they hadn’t fallen out, Bellamy could have been replaced because he said he wanted to try and be a number 1 somewhere

It was not Bellamy's decision - he was in effect being sacked.

[Papabendi]

All I know is that Kompany was replacing Bellamy and was bringing in Jensen. Had Kompany stayed, Bellamy was gone. As it turns out, both of them have gone.

May well have been amicable if Bellamy wanted a a number one job

[ClaretTony]

May well have been amicable if Bellamy wanted a a number one job

It was nothing to do with Bellamy wanting a number one job - it was Kompany's decision to sack him. Not sure why this has appeared on this thread, it's been done to death. I don't know what the disagreement was but I do know that Bellamy was on his way had Kompany stayed and it was Kompany's decision.

[Papabendi]

It’s appearing again because the doc seems to suggest other outcomes to the ones previously mentioned on the board. Including, for example, Pace and Kompany in the final week

[NewClaret]

So, will post my thoughts on the key storylines/people individually so as not to create a mega post, but firstly what a fantastic series. It’s excellent and I’d recommend it to anyone. Far more so than the first.

As a Burnley fan it’s hard not to be fascinated by all the storylines and people, when they’re what you discuss all day every day but I always think as I’m watching these “would other fans enjoy it” and with this series it’s a resounding yes. If Sky push it and get the marketing right on live football days I’m sure it’ll do very well.

Only small criticism was that I thought they could’ve stretched it out an episode or two. I thought some of the storylines felt a bit rushed. For instance, the Kompany leaving saga and replacement was done in half an episode. I think they could’ve done a whole one on that - more on how they shortlisted, the interview process, etc.

I also felt they could’ve introduced more about social media and this board around the feedback and frustrations of fans throughout the season to show the general mood amongst fans was toxic. I felt that did t come across as well as it could.

Try and get to watch it if you can.

[nyclaret]

Does anyone know if a third season is planned? It felt like it was teed up for one.

[NewClaret]

***SPOILER ALERT***

Most fascinating two parts for me came in the first and the last episode.

Firstly, Williams saying “We need experience… We need men”.

I’m not completely convinced that was said after three games in to the season and with the transfer window still open, or if it was, certainly not acted upon. Frustrating and reassuring that Williams knew the answers before the season had really started in equal measure.

The second was Checketts airing his concerns on the strategy. To be honest, that was fantastic to hear. I don’t think it’s fair to say we have a group of Americans who don’t understand the game after listening to that.

He was talking with the benefit of hindsight, but none of us really predicted how badly last season would unfold at the start of the season so we can’t say we’d have predicted it either. The important thing is that they’re learning and I believe Parker’s appointment is probably a reflection of that in action.

It’s a shame that whole scene broke down by Williams being caught napping in the meeting (happens to me a lot ) and misunderstanding the question. They had no answers and Pace’s silence said he knew it.

[Big Vinny K]

I doubt very much many fans from other clubs will watch it.
Sky really pushed the first series - they have not done this for the second one.

I really enjoyed the first series and wished that it would have been more than 4 episodes as they seemed to miss out big chunks of the season on the pitch.

Only seen the first couple of episodes of the second series and whilst there is definitely some insightful footage I’m finding most of it pretty cringeworthy.

Pace comes across as a giggling fanboy and VK as the football version of David Brent.

[CoolClaret]

He was talking with the benefit of hindsight, but none of us really predicted how badly last season would unfold at the start of the season so we can’t say we’d have predicted it either. The important thing is that they’re learning and I believe Parker’s appointment is probably a reflection of that in action.

Hmmmmm think some did! In fact, I thought it was clear as day.

[NewClaret]

Does anyone know if a third season is planned? It felt like it was teed up for one.

No idea but I hope there is, especially if they keep on this trajectory of improvement.

I know it’s only a very local thing but I was in ASDA yesterday and heard three separate conversations going about it. Don’t recall that in series one.

Will say I think part of it is the access they get and how they seem to have trusted them with more footage. For example, this time they talked numbers, players they were interested in/could have signed etc.

They need that to continue to maintain interest in it. 365 access to it all. Total transparency. Cameras constantly there capturing things as they happen. That’s the way to make it most captivating.

I will say though I think we are so lucky as fans to have a series like this and see so much behind the scenes. There are 91 other league clubs who don’t have this access - we should be really grateful for that.

[NewClaret]

Hmmmmm think some did! In fact, I thought it was clear as day.

Fair enough. I don’t recall what individuals said.

I think if we went and pulled up the thread before the season where we were predicting where we’d finish, there was not a single one I remember saying we’d be relegated, 2nd bottom on 24 points though.

If someone could bump that, it’d be good to see what we all thought. I’d imagine I said mid table or something.

[claretskeith]

I've not yet watched it and you're not selling it to me

[Big Vinny K]

Fair enough. I don’t recall what individuals said.

I think if we went and pulled up the thread before the season where we were predicting where we’d finish, there was not a single one I remember saying we’d be relegated, 2nd bottom on 24 points though.

If someone could bump that, it’d be good to see what we all thought. I’d imagine I said mid table or something.

That’s a pretty specific prediction to make though !!

[CoolClaret]

Fair enough. I don’t recall what individuals said.

I think if we went and pulled up the thread before the season where we were predicting where we’d finish, there was not a single one I remember saying we’d be relegated, 2nd bottom on 24 points though.

If someone could bump that, it’d be good to see what we all thought. I’d imagine I said mid table or something.

Most of the predictions were optimistic of course, especially the ones made in the off-season, when pre-season rolled around and the wingers began to stockpile then a lot of people were raising eyebrows...

I made a thread after the Villa game suggesting that the approach to the season, team selection and setup was wrong and naive. That's why the season was so frustrating for many - it was like seeing the iceberg early on but knowing that you couldn't do anything to change course.

[Newcastleclaret93]

So, will post my thoughts on the key storylines/people individually so as not to create a mega post, but firstly what a fantastic series. It’s excellent and I’d recommend it to anyone. Far more so than the first.

As a Burnley fan it’s hard not to be fascinated by all the storylines and people, when they’re what you discuss all day every day but I always think as I’m watching these “would other fans enjoy it” and with this series it’s a resounding yes. If Sky push it and get the marketing right on live football days I’m sure it’ll do very well.

Only small criticism was that I thought they could’ve stretched it out an episode or two. I thought some of the storylines felt a bit rushed. For instance, the Kompany leaving saga and replacement was done in half an episode. I think they could’ve done a whole one on that - more on how they shortlisted, the interview process, etc.

I also felt they could’ve introduced more about social media and this board around the feedback and frustrations of fans throughout the season to show the general mood amongst fans was toxic. I felt that did t come across as well as it could.

Try and get to watch it if you can.

The biggest thing for me is it has totally changed my opinion on certain players and further compounded my opinion on others.

Foster in particular came across like a real leader.

The disappointing thing for me is the club don’t seem to be learning. They talk about the issues of not having men etc…. Then the windows since we haven’t signed any experienced pros that will feature in the team.

I think we have the makings of a truly great team here. But they are clearly lacking a Jack Cork type

[NewClaret]

Most of the predictions were optimistic of course, especially the ones made in the off-season, when pre-season rolled around and the wingers began to stockpile then a lot of people were raising eyebrows...

I made a thread after the Villa game suggesting that the approach to the season, team selection and setup was wrong and naive. That's why the season was so frustrating for many - it was like seeing the iceberg early on but knowing that you couldn't do anything to change course.

That’s my point though really Cool, nobody was complaining at the start of the season. We were all optimistic, giving the transfer windows high scores and expecting a comfortable finish.

I didn’t see any negativity, complaints about playing style or requests to adapt it in the premier league, or loud cries for different profiles of signings.

My point being that you couldn’t really expect the Board were expecting anything different at the start of the season when we weren’t. It may've been more obvious to some than others as the season started what was going to unfold. I personally thought we’d improve, which we did in a way just not enough/too late, I just don’t think we could’ve expected the Board to foresee the seasons challenges.

Thats not important now anyway. I got the feeling that they had learned from mission to Burnley, which is the important thing. Just the minor challenge of getting back up we need to worry about now.

[burnmark]

I doubt very much many fans from other clubs will watch it.
Sky really pushed the first series - they have not done this for the second one.

I really enjoyed the first series and wished that it would have been more than 4 episodes as they seemed to miss out big chunks of the season on the pitch.

Only seen the first couple of episodes of the second series and whilst there is definitely some insightful footage I’m finding most of it pretty cringeworthy.

Pace comes across as a giggling fanboy and VK as the football version of David Brent.

I think other fans will have more of an inclination to watch this series rather than the first. If I was a Blackburn fan I’d be more likely to watch the second series rather than the first due to the perceived failure of my rivals rather than a whirlwind success story.

[Grahamjack]

Lots of people nailed it as soon as the team started to be reshaped so drastically from the championship winning team.

15 new signings and yet we were playing people in positions they had rarely if ever played.

A goalkeeper with no premier league level

Completely unbalanced squad.

As the called in episode one said this was a disaster clearly on the cards and guess what we got relegated.

VK even explained it was difficult decision to change goalkeeper at game 28. How difficult could it be ffs

[Grahamjack]

Lots of people nailed it as soon as the team started to be reshaped so drastically from the championship winning team.

15 new signings and yet we were playing people in positions they had rarely if ever played.

A goalkeeper with no premier league level experience

Completely unbalanced squad.

As the called in episode one said this was a disaster clearly on the cards and guess what we got relegated.

VK even explained it was difficult decision to change goalkeeper at game 28. How difficult could it be ffs

[Winstonswhite]

Fair enough. I don’t recall what individuals said.

I think if we went and pulled up the thread before the season where we were predicting where we’d finish, there was not a single one I remember saying we’d be relegated, 2nd bottom on 24 points though.

If someone could bump that, it’d be good to see what we all thought. I’d imagine I said mid table or something.

viewtopic.php?style=2&f=2&t=70032&p=210 ... s#p2103757

[ElectroClaret]

If I was a Blackburn fan I’d be more likely to watch the second series rather than the first due to the perceived failure of my rivals rather than a whirlwind success story.

Yes, but that's just the R*vers fans.
Agree with Big Vinny, can't see it holding much interest for the vast majority of fans.
As a Claret, even i haven't sought it out yet, though i probably will sometime.

[Clive 1960]

I have only watched a clip of this series and that was enough for me and to see a manager acting like he did to certain players, maybe it was for the camera i don't know what i do know that a fit and proper chairman would not have let that continue as it did , and who gives Kompany the right to sack is coach he was only the manager not the owner but maybe he was in full control of the club. just hope Pace as wakened up and learned from is mistakes...

[morninbob]

Link to first episode.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X-X_oo ... sp=sharing

[burnmark]

Yes, but that's just the R*vers fans.
Agree with Big Vinny, can't see it holding much interest for the vast majority of fans.
As a Claret, even i haven't sought it out yet, though i probably will sometime.

I’d be the same the other way round.

[Big Vinny K]

I think other fans will have more of an inclination to watch this series rather than the first. If I was a Blackburn fan I’d be more likely to watch the second series rather than the first due to the perceived failure of my rivals rather than a whirlwind success story.

Possibly yes - bit like those people at the super bikes who stand on the corner hoping to get a view of the crashes !!

Personally I just don’t think it’s getting that many viewing figures full stop. Look at the channel it’s been put on and like I said it’s hardly been promoted this series. Compared to the other football fly on the wall documentaries which have been in the main bought by Netflix or Amazon it’s not getting anything like the kind of interest.

But I do agree that as a burnley fan its great to have something made like this about our club.

[Row x]

I have only watched a clip of this series and that was enough for me and to see a manager acting like he did to certain players, maybe it was for the camera i don't know what i do know that a fit and proper chairman would not have let that continue as it did , and who gives Kompany the right to sack is coach he was only the manager not the owner but maybe he was in full control of the club. just hope Pace as wakened up and learned from is mistakes...

I take it you've never seen one of Pep's rants?

[beddie]

The thing it highlighted to me was the lack of leadership in the dressing room and on the pitch. I still don’t think we have that now. Davies, Caldwell, Tarky, Mee, Heaton those are what you call leaders.

[Big Vinny K]

That’s my point though really Cool, nobody was complaining at the start of the season. We were all optimistic, giving the transfer windows high scores and expecting a comfortable finish.

I didn’t see any negativity, complaints about playing style or requests to adapt it in the premier league, or loud cries for different profiles of signings.

My point being that you couldn’t really expect the Board were expecting anything different at the start of the season when we weren’t. It may've been more obvious to some than others as the season started what was going to unfold. I personally thought we’d improve, which we did in a way just not enough/too late, I just don’t think we could’ve expected the Board to foresee the seasons challenges.

Thats not important now anyway. I got the feeling that they had learned from mission to Burnley, which is the important thing. Just the minor challenge of getting back up we need to worry about now.

Think you are missing the point IMHO.

How could any Burnley fan not go into last season without a high degree of optimism after what had happened the previous year and after a summer of spending the most money we have in our history.

Of course there was some comments made about the number of wingers we had signed but generally speaking before a ball was kicked I’d say almost all Burnley fans (with the exception of those that are never happy !!) were feeling positive about the season ahead.

Even after the City game it was generally still positive given that we had played excellently for the first half an hour and we were beaten by probably the best side in the world.

But it then began to unravel pretty quickly. By the end of the transfer window our failure to sign a left back together with a very quick realisation that our defence and our keeper was to put it mildly a bit shaky there were plenty of fans on this board and also pundits and commentators highlighting our weaknesses and that our tactics would be punished if we continued with them.

Thsi just grew and grew as the season progressed - amongst our own fans and pundits / commentators. There were a few people pointing out our tough start but as soon as we started to get stuffed with the likes of Brentford and everyone else there were very few people saying anything but we were being relegated. I reckon if you would have asked people in September to predict our points total there would be a lot more predicting nearer to 24 than 40 (or whatever was needed to survive).

It wasn’t long into the season when Burnley and Sheff United were doomed by many and only Luton were being talked about as having the players, tactics and spirit to possibly survive and that’s how it remained for much of the rest of the season.

[NewClaret]

Think you are missing the point IMHO.

How could any Burnley fan not go into last season without a high degree of optimism after what had happened the previous year and after a summer of spending the most money we have in our history.

Of course there was some comments made about the number of wingers we had signed but generally speaking before a ball was kicked I’d say almost all Burnley fans (with the exception of those that are never happy !!) were feeling positive about the season ahead.

Even after the City game it was generally still positive given that we had played excellently for the first half an hour and we were beaten by probably the best side in the world.

But it then began to unravel pretty quickly. By the end of the transfer window our failure to sign a left back together with a very quick realisation that our defence and our keeper was to put it mildly a bit shaky there were plenty of fans on this board and also pundits and commentators highlighting our weaknesses and that our tactics would be punished if we continued with them.

Thsi just grew and grew as the season progressed - amongst our own fans and pundits / commentators. There were a few people pointing out our tough start but as soon as we started to get stuffed with the likes of Brentford and everyone else there were very few people saying anything but we were being relegated. I reckon if you would have asked people in September to predict our points total there would be a lot more predicting nearer to 24 than 40 (or whatever was needed to survive).

It wasn’t long into the season when Burnley and Sheff United were doomed by many and only Luton were being talked about as having the players, tactics and spirit to possibly survive and that’s how it remained for much of the rest of the season.

My comments were responding specifically to the comments in this thread that our American owners/board don’t have a clue about football (or words to that effect - not sure who made them).

My point is that: What they were discussing in that board meeting was club strategy - not performances, results, or last season in isolation. I don’t think they could’ve foreseen how that they were getting the strategy so wrong in the summer prior, when we all couldn’t with our collective millions of years of football knowledge. All seemed good. We were ahead of plan and optimistic that Kompany had the magic dust to lead us to a mid-table finish. What was clear from MtB ep4 is the whole club strategy (not performances or results) was being rightly questioned and Checketts at least had identified the problem.

This is good. It’s good that they got it. It’s good that the tough conversations were had, and good that Alan was challenged (sign of a functioning board). It’s also good that I think they’ve learned with the Parker appointment (even if I’d have liked RVN myself). It gives me hope for the future if we can get back up. Equally this summers signings would suggest they’ve not thrown the baby out with the bath water which I think is also important; Pires & Hountondji look decent players.

I don’t care a jot about last season now. It’s over. All I care about now is that the mistakes have been identified and acted upon, which I feel they have.

[Big Vinny K]

My comments were responding specifically to the comments in this thread that our American owners/board don’t have a clue about football (or words to that effect - not sure who made them).

My point is that: What they were discussing in that board meeting was club strategy - not performances, results, or last season in isolation. I don’t think they could’ve foreseen how that they were getting the strategy so wrong in the summer prior, when we all couldn’t with our collective millions of years of football knowledge. All seemed good. We were ahead of plan and optimistic that Kompany had the magic dust to lead us to a mid-table finish. What was clear from MtB ep4 is the whole club strategy (not performances or results) was being rightly questioned and Checketts at least had identified the problem.

This is good. It’s good that they got it. It’s good that the tough conversations were had, and good that Alan was challenged (sign of a functioning board). It’s also good that I think they’ve learned with the Parker appointment (even if I’d have liked RVN myself). It gives me hope for the future if we can get back up. Equally this summers signings would suggest they’ve not thrown the baby out with the bath water which I think is also important; Pires & Hountondji look decent players.

I don’t care a jot about last season now. It’s over. All I care about now is that the mistakes have been identified and acted upon, which I feel they have.

I was responding to your comments on this thread that nobody predicted how bad a season we were going to have or were going into last season negative.
I was explaining why this was a pretty obvious feeling amongst most people but how this very quickly changed when they saw what was happening on the pitch.

You may not care about last season but that’s like saying you don’t care about the promotion season. Irrespective of whether you care or not a lot of fans obviously do care not just because we got it so wrong but because it is very relevant to our future. One look at our finances should make that clear.

[Clovius Boofus]

Sky should rename it: Mission to Quibble Town 2.