FAB

[Rileybobs]

Thought it was brilliant how Pace shut them up in the FAB meeting when they were moaning about shirt sponsorship. It’s either that or sell Anass. Room soon went silent

Or maybe just don’t buy that 18th winger.

[Enola Gay]

I too thought it was hilarious when our leveraged up to the ******* eyeballs American hedge fund debt loader owners were willing to sacrifice their own religious beliefs and backtrack on the promise they made to have another think about slapping a giant betting sponsor on the front of our shirts because our finances are on a knife edge and they know the alternative is selling off our most sought after players which could derail their plans of getting back on the gravy train which is literally the only thing that makes their business plan workable and if it doesn't there's nothing stopping us doing a Bolton or Portsmouth.

Looooooooool just bare jokes that.

By this logic any Muslim involved in the sale of alcohol or Christian photographer doing a gay wedding is also sacrificing their own beliefs?
What Pace et al personally believe is one thing, how they run their businesses is another.

As for the betting sponsorships I remember them saying they'd be looking at the situation, not committing to ending it. If they've crunched the numbers and realised that there's no alternative to a betting sponsor right now, that's not backtracking on a promise; that's dealing with the current financial reality.

[jrgbfc]

Thought it was brilliant how Pace shut them up in the FAB meeting when they were moaning about shirt sponsorship. It’s either that or sell Anass. Room soon went silent

Tbf you could use that to justify anything. "We have to charge 4 quid for a crap Hollands pie in order to compete".

[TheFamilyCat]

Oh aye let’s sell our best players just so we can all clap about a shirt sponsor.

I'd happily watch 4th division football again as long as we had Park View Chippy as shirt sponsor.

[FeedTheArf]

Tbf you could use that to justify anything. "We have to charge 4 quid for a crap Hollands pie in order to compete".

Apart from the difference in sponsorship is many millions of pounds which makes up a decent chunk of the playing budget.

That said, I am still mourning the loss of the pie meal deal.

[fatboy47]

They can have a hologram of Gary Glitter's platform boots on the shirt front and Jimmy Savile's cigar on the back for me... couldn't give a toss if we can hack it on the pitch.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I'd happily watch 4th division football again as long as we had Park View Chippy as shirt sponsor.

They could also incorporate this into affordable food on the match. I dread to think how much a twix will cost this season.

[NewClaret]

They can have a hologram of Gary Glitter's platform boots on the shirt front and Jimmy Savile's cigar on the back for me... couldn't give a toss if we can hack it on the pitch.

That’ll upset a few but very funny

Exactly how I feel. Couldn’t care less what’s on the kit as long as we’re giving ourselves the best possible chance on it.

[Inchy]

Regarding the kits, I assume they saw them before the horrible sponsor. They are half decent (third very decent) without it

[KlyBfc]

The shirt sponsor thing I find weird.
If you don’t agree don’t buy it.
Also Maybe I’m different but just because i see something doesn’t mean I think right I’m going to buy it, pay for it etc..
I never bought or considered buying a P3 computer, I wouldn’t use Endsleigh insurance, I wouldn’t buy a shirt from classic football shirts.
Whilst I understand gambling is an addiction for some does what’s on the front of our over priced kit really make a difference to those people?

[Plissken]

Yes.

[Rileybobs]

The shirt sponsor thing I find weird.
If you don’t agree don’t buy it.
Also Maybe I’m different but just because i see something doesn’t mean I think right I’m going to buy it, pay for it etc..
I never bought or considered buying a P3 computer, I wouldn’t use Endsleigh insurance, I wouldn’t buy a shirt from classic football shirts.
Whilst I understand gambling is an addiction for some does what’s on the front of our over priced kit really make a difference to those people?

Have a little read up about white label betting organisations and ask yourself whether you’re happy that the club is partnering with one.

[Row x]

Have a little read up about white label betting organisations and ask yourself whether you’re happy that the club is partnering with one.

If you stay whiter than white nowadays there's only one way to go, and it isn't upwards

[Rileybobs]

If you stay whiter than white nowadays there's only one way to go, and it isn't upwards

With all due respect that’s a complete cop-out, just like Alan Pace telling the FAB that it was either take the deal or sell Zaroury.

[CoolClaret]

The shirt sponsor thing I find weird.
If you don’t agree don’t buy it.
Also Maybe I’m different but just because i see something doesn’t mean I think right I’m going to buy it, pay for it etc..
I never bought or considered buying a P3 computer, I wouldn’t use Endsleigh insurance, I wouldn’t buy a shirt from classic football shirts.
Whilst I understand gambling is an addiction for some does what’s on the front of our over priced kit really make a difference to those people?

Think of a soft drink, I think your first thought will be 'Coke/Coca-Cola', think of a cereal brand and I think your first thought will be 'kellogs'.

Advertising works, whether you like it or not - it's a $650 billion + industry.

[Row x]

With all due respect that’s a complete cop-out, just like Alan Pace telling the FAB that it was either take the deal or sell Zaroury.

Not a cop out, just fact of life

If we don't take the 4m from sponsors, it has to come from somewhere else, if it doesn't come, we end up not as competitive
Your morals are probably higher than mine, which is fair enough, I just want Burnley to be successful, whatever that takes, I make no apologies for that

[Rileybobs]

Not a cop out, just fact of life

If we don't take the 4m from sponsors, it has to come from somewhere else, if it doesn't come, we end up not as competitive
Your morals are probably higher than mine, which is fair enough, I just want Burnley to be successful, whatever that takes, I make no apologies for that

It’s perfectly achievable to have morals and principles and still be successful. £4m is a hefty sum, but we’ve wasted a lot more than that on signing players who haven’t made a single contribution to the first team. How much money have the club wasted by sending season tickets out to incorrect addresses? Obviously not into the millions, but there are ways this club could be more efficiently run so that we don’t need to partner up with shady organisations.

[Row x]

It’s perfectly achievable to have morals and principles and still be successful. £4m is a hefty sum, but we’ve wasted a lot more than that on signing players who haven’t made a single contribution to the first team. How much money have the club wasted by sending season tickets out to incorrect addresses? Obviously not into the millions, but there are ways this club could be more efficiently run so that we don’t need to partner up with shady organisations.

I don't think any efficiency savings such as sending envelopes to the correct address would make up the difference

If you look deep enough you could find something shady with any sponsor, I'm sure classic football shirts obtain shirts made in some sweat shop somewhere where workers rights are abused every day

[fatboy47]

I'd happily watch 4th division football again as long as we had Park View Chippy as shirt sponsor.

Hmmmm...fatty salty high-cholestrol junk food....youre as bad as Lineker with his crisps.

[KlyBfc]

Think of a soft drink, I think your first thought will be 'Coke/Coca-Cola', think of a cereal brand and I think your first thought will be 'kellogs'.

Advertising works, whether you like it or not - it's a $650 billion + industry.

I do understand that, it’s more I suppose that I don’t think we should suffer financially to take a position that I’m not sure is that significant.
Ps I do understand this is just my opinion and respect all those who disagree, and maybe I’m wrong but hey ho.

I think the paddy power type pre kick off / half time in play type adverts are so so much worse / enticing.

[Rileybobs]

I don't think any efficiency savings such as sending envelopes to the correct address would make up the difference

If you look deep enough you could find something shady with any sponsor, I'm sure classic football shirts obtain shirts made in some sweat shop somewhere where workers rights are abused every day

I said that sending season tickets to the correct addresses wouldn’t make up the difference. But there will be a significant cost associated with printing out new cards and redistributing them alongside the administration. This is just one of many examples where the club could improve how it operates so that we don’t feel we need to partner with a shady organisation.

And your point about any sponsor being shady is another cop-out. Any organisation as big as BFC will carry out due diligence on contractors and suppliers, and should ensure that they operate ethically and legally.

[Row x]

I said that sending season tickets to the correct addresses wouldn’t make up the difference. But there will be a significant cost associated with printing out new cards and redistributing them alongside the administration. This is just one of many examples where the club could improve how it operates so that we don’t feel we need to partner with a shady organisation.

And your point about any sponsor being shady is another cop-out. Any organisation as big as BFC will carry out due diligence on contractors and suppliers, and should ensure that they operate ethically and legally.

4 million quid efficiency savings, for example, is pie in the sky figures for a company the size of Burnley, without getting rid of staff, is that what you'd prefer?

Why is it a cop out?
Who do you suggest we partner with that operate ethically and legally?

[Rileybobs]

4 million quid efficiency savings, for example, is pie in the sky figures for a company the size of Burnley, without getting rid of staff, is that what you'd prefer?

Why is it a cop out?
Who do you suggest we partner with that operate ethically and legally?

£4m efficiency saving is buying one less player that will never kick a ball for us. Pace disingenuously suggested that it was either take this deal or sell Zaroury, I’d have been pretty insulted if I was sat in that room and he thought I was stupid enough to believe that.

The cop out is you claiming that all companies operate nefariously and therefore it doesn’t matter who we do business with. Also, I would suggest your insinuation about classic football shirts is bordering on libel.

[Big Vinny K]

With all due respect that’s a complete cop-out, just like Alan Pace telling the FAB that it was either take the deal or sell Zaroury.

I agree 100% and thought that response was pathetic.
Ironically though we probably would have been better of selling Zaroury given he hardly kicked a ball after that comment !!

As for making other efficiency savings then yes not signing as many players as we did could very easily have achieved that.

There’s numerous other ways to save that kind of money too. Stop using extremely expensive factoring companies for one.

Or maybe restrict the increase in the number of senior management staff that we have had under the new owners.

Don’t by a drum…and get rid of the bloke buying the drum.

It’s all about choices and Pace made the choice to go with a betting company.

[NewClaret]

The shirt sponsor thing I find weird.
If you don’t agree don’t buy it.
Also Maybe I’m different but just because i see something doesn’t mean I think right I’m going to buy it, pay for it etc..
I never bought or considered buying a P3 computer, I wouldn’t use Endsleigh insurance, I wouldn’t buy a shirt from classic football shirts.
Whilst I understand gambling is an addiction for some does what’s on the front of our over priced kit really make a difference to those people?

I’d be amazed if anyone has ever become addicted to gambling as a result of a front of shirt sponsor.

The deals/offers/TV ads I can accept, so for me until they are banned there is little point banning it in shirt sponsorship.

[NewClaret]

Ey up all! I've done a little (or not so little) report from last night's Fan Advisory Board meeting. Most of these questions were gathered from social media and Clarets Trust members, but feel free to put your thoughts, feedback and queries in this thread. We have another FAB meeting in September and I'm keen to keep addressing fans' concerns.

Apologies for the length of the write-up! Perhaps settle down with a brew in hand..

Great summary. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[Plissken]

I’d be amazed if anyone has ever become addicted to gambling as a result of a front of shirt sponsor.

The deals/offers/TV ads I can accept, so for me until they are banned there is little point banning it in shirt sponsorship.

No-one has become addicted to gambling because of a shirt sponsor.

Plenty will have started gambling because of a shirt sponsor, and then will have become addicted over time.

[CoolClaret]

I’d be amazed if anyone has ever become addicted to gambling as a result of a front of shirt sponsor.

The deals/offers/TV ads I can accept, so for me until they are banned there is little point banning it in shirt sponsorship.

Honestly why is that so hard to believe?

You don't think there's a 'lad' culture in football that includes having a few pints and putting a slip on? It's all the same entity... For most people it's fine but there'll be a few that can't help themselves.

Why do you think Paddy Power bothers making 'humorous' clips? It's so they get shared on social media/whatsapp groups etc and more people are seeing their name/logo regularly for 'brand awareness' then when either you fancy a bet or a few peers or discussing bets you think of Paddy Power.

The entire goal of betting companies advertising in football is to try and make putting a bet (with the respective bookie) as part and parcel of being a fan of the game. It's that simple.

[dougcollins]

We can't afford to have morals.

The likes of City can. It's just that their morals can be suspended as appropriate when it comes to other issues.

[Chester Perry]

With all due respect that’s a complete cop-out, just like Alan Pace telling the FAB that it was either take the deal or sell Zaroury.

Having just seen this on MTB2 what I wonder is that no one from the FAB stood up to Pace and said

well Alan
- you don't appear to have ever written a check for the club that didn't come from the clubs finances
- you and your mates have taken £59.8m out of the club to write a cheque for you to own shares - according to the accounts
- you and your mates also got the club to take on the responsibility of a £65m loan it didn't need and has never been allowed to make use of, instead it was used by you to buy shares, that has so far cost the club in excess of £10m in interest payments and led to the club having to repay £20m of that loan or did you write a personal cheque for that?


of course since then we know that Alan has felt free to spend even more of the club's money on shares together with the repaying and refinancing of loans that would not have been required if he and his mates had actually wrote a personal check in the first place.

i bring this up not because of the leveraging model employed but to show that everything comes to choice and subsequent consequences of those choices , he has made his choices but it can never be argued that he did this one to benefit the club when he has made other, more significant ones that have encouraged him to make the one for a gambling sponsor.

[Big Vinny K]

I’d be amazed if anyone has ever become addicted to gambling as a result of a front of shirt sponsor.

The deals/offers/TV ads I can accept, so for me until they are banned there is little point banning it in shirt sponsorship.

Where to start with such an ignorant statement.
Actually I don’t think I’ll bother.

[helmclaret]

AP doesn’t have to entertain an FAB, I wouldn’t. At least he does and listens.

[Chester Perry]

AP doesn’t have to entertain an FAB, I wouldn’t. At least he does and listens.

According to the Premier Leagues own guidelines he does - the FAB is a Premier League creation

[Leisure]

Ey up all! I've done a little (or not so little) report from last night's Fan Advisory Board meeting. Most of these questions were gathered from social media and Clarets Trust members, but feel free to put your thoughts, feedback and queries in this thread. We have another FAB meeting in September and I'm keen to keep addressing fans' concerns.

Hi George - The issues which I'm constantly asked about and read about are-
a) The difficulty in getting through to the Ticket Office on the phone.
b) The lack of live/up to date ticketing info on the Club website eg no Sunderland tickets showing as available, possibly indicating (quite reasonably) to fans that it had sold out, and then a couple of days later tickets then showing as available but no info from the Club of this situation. So anyone who had tried to purchase tickets when it was showing none available, could reasonably assume that that it was sold out and wouldn't necessarily try again.
c) The lack of information for fans when unexpected issues arise on ticketing issues eg Season tickets apparently being sent out to old addresses but no information from the Club of this actually happening and how you can find out just where your ST is!
d) Whilst it's apparent that the new ticketing system has/is having teething problems, no info from the Club on this.
I'm not suggesting that all these issues are the fault of the TO, as I presume that the Club has a Communication team who should deal with a number of these issues and an IT team. The lack of understanding and communication of ticketing issues which fans are having to deal with is a major issue for fans. It appears as if the Club think it's for fans to find out information rather than the Club providing it.

Hopefully these issues could be addressed at the next FAB meeting.

[Row x]

According to the Premier Leagues own guidelines he does - the FAB is a Premier League creation

What about in the championship?

[daveisaclaret]

What about in the championship?

EFL rule 112.1

[Casper2]

Thought it was brilliant how Pace shut them up in the FAB meeting when they were moaning about shirt sponsorship. It’s either that or sell Anass. Room soon went silent

Pace who wastes money paying Crow Wood to hold board meetings

[helmclaret]

According to the Premier Leagues own guidelines he does - the FAB is a Premier League creation

Ok I stand corrected.

[helmclaret]

Pace who wastes money paying Crow Wood to hold board meetings

It’s common for company board meetings to be held off site.

[ClaretPuddle]

According to the Premier Leagues own guidelines he does - the FAB is a Premier League creation

What I'd say in the Club's defence on this, or at least how I've found their attitude since the FAB launched, is that they genuinely see it as a really important cornerstone of fan engagement. It's true that FABs are a requirement of all Premier League clubs, but we launched the recruitment for ours at the start of the 2022/23 Championship season. The feeling was that the Club knew the FAB may eventually be a requirement, so they wanted to invest their time in it early to make it a worthwhile endeavour.

Now we are in the Championship, there is no requirement to have one - but still they remain committed and needless to say, they're hoping we become a Premier League club soon again.

As for Alan Pace individually, he was the ONLY Premier League owner last season to attend a Fan Advisory Board meeting. Not only that, but he has attended every single one with the exception of Thursday evening. I have seen many other FABs feeling rather fobbed off by their clubs, but that isn't the case here. I'm looking forward to reading Martin Cloake's article that was shared in the thread (https://martincloake.substack.com/p/we- ... -over-fabs), to see how our experience tallies against others.

[ClaretPuddle]

Hi George - The issues which I'm constantly asked about and read about are-
a) The difficulty in getting through to the Ticket Office on the phone.
b) The lack of live/up to date ticketing info on the Club website eg no Sunderland tickets showing as available, possibly indicating (quite reasonably) to fans that it had sold out, and then a couple of days later tickets then showing as available but no info from the Club of this situation. So anyone who had tried to purchase tickets when it was showing none available, could reasonably assume that that it was sold out and wouldn't necessarily try again.
c) The lack of information for fans when unexpected issues arise on ticketing issues eg Season tickets apparently being sent out to old addresses but no information from the Club of this actually happening and how you can find out just where your ST is!
d) Whilst it's apparent that the new ticketing system has/is having teething problems, no info from the Club on this.
I'm not suggesting that all these issues are the fault of the TO, as I presume that the Club has a Communication team who should deal with a number of these issues and an IT team. The lack of understanding and communication of ticketing issues which fans are having to deal with is a major issue for fans. It appears as if the Club think it's for fans to find out information rather than the Club providing it.

Hopefully these issues could be addressed at the next FAB meeting.

Thanks a lot for raising these points Leisure! I'll make a note for the September meeting. I believe the Club are going to do a similar thing in asking for questions to answer in a Q&A section, which I think greatly improves the usefulness to the FAB.

[Chester Perry]

What I'd say in the Club's defence on this, or at least how I've found their attitude since the FAB launched, is that they genuinely see it as a really important cornerstone of fan engagement. It's true that FABs are a requirement of all Premier League clubs, but we launched the recruitment for ours at the start of the 2022/23 Championship season. The feeling was that the Club knew the FAB may eventually be a requirement, so they wanted to invest their time in it early to make it a worthwhile endeavour.

Now we are in the Championship, there is no requirement to have one - but still they remain committed and needless to say, they're hoping we become a Premier League club soon again.

As for Alan Pace individually, he was the ONLY Premier League owner last season to attend a Fan Advisory Board meeting. Not only that, but he has attended every single one with the exception of Thursday evening. I have seen many other FABs feeling rather fobbed off by their clubs, but that isn't the case here. I'm looking forward to reading Martin Cloake's article that was shared in the thread (https://martincloake.substack.com/p/we- ... -over-fabs), to see how our experience tallies against others.

I am aware that the club's engagement with the FAB is different to the experiences of others, not necessarily better, just different in some ways - not that my comment you quoted was a criticism, just a response of fact to a someone who did not appear to understand the reason for the FAB's existence.

[NewClaret]

Where to start with such an ignorant statement.
Actually I don’t think I’ll bother.

Good stuff.

Would love to know if anyone on here has ever placed a bet with dafabet, lovebet, spreadex, W88 or 96.com?

I know I certainly haven’t and I like the occasional flutter.

[Plissken]

Considering they are not particularly available to UK citizens apart from a barebones website, I would say it is as likely as me buying tomorrows dinner from Cracker Barrel.

[Goody1975]

Good stuff.

Would love to know if anyone on here has ever placed a bet with dafabet, lovebet, spreadex, W88 or 96.com?

I know I certainly haven’t and I like the occasional flutter.

Not me, never even researched them on the net to see what they'd offer.

[Row x]

Good stuff.

Would love to know if anyone on here has ever placed a bet with dafabet, lovebet, spreadex, W88 or 96.com?

I know I certainly haven’t and I like the occasional flutter.

Never had a bet online, even though I see an advert for one at almost every ad break, or numerous firms on front of football shirts.
I think the only thing I ever bought from a company that sponsored us was a Hollands pie.

[NewClaret]

Not me, never even researched them on the net to see what they'd offer.

Me either.

I’ll be genuinely amazed if more than a handful of clarets have ever placed a bet with any of them that we’ve had over the last decade. Never mind retain an account/app with them.

I’ll be even more flabbergasted if any other fans across the world did it because they saw them on a Burnley shirt once.

[NewClaret]

Never had a bet online, even though I see an advert for one at almost every ad break, or numerous firms on front of football shirts.
I think the only thing I ever bought from a company that sponsored us was a Holland pie.

I think I might’ve bought a table from Oakland once. Not a massive fan of Hollands pies so doubt I’ve even had one of them.

Otherwise I can safely say that I’ve never been influenced by any of the advertising on shirts or at a football ground and I think if most would say the same.

[Burnleyareback2]

Whilst I have never bought something due to shirt sponsorship I no longer buy Perspex or McEwans lager.

[Rileybobs]

Me either.

I’ll be genuinely amazed if more than a handful of clarets have ever placed a bet with any of them that we’ve had over the last decade. Never mind retain an account/app with them.

I’ll be even more flabbergasted if any other fans across the world did it because they saw them on a Burnley shirt once.

The white label betting companies aren’t aimed at the UK market, because they don’t operate here. They operate in countries where gambling is illegal.

If people across the world aren’t using these websites having seen them advertised on Burnley shirts then why is this company spending £4-5m?