Summer 2024 Transfer Window Discussion - Rumours and Links welcome

[ksrclaret]

I should have added as well that O’Shea has an excellent injury record for us, whilst those on this conveyor belt certainly do not.

[123EasyasBFC]

The actual article in the the telegraph doesn’t make the deal look as close as the title. Says looks set for a move back to the top flight in the last couple of weeks of the window

[agreenwood]

People talk about us selling players like it’s unusual behaviour. It’s frustrating and it’s hard to take at times, but it’s pretty much what every club in the land outside of those backed by states do, particularly after a relegation.

[boyyanno]

Flipping O’Shea for double what we paid is what we’re all about. It’s our raison d’etre.

It wouldn’t be a lack of ambition to sell O’Shea, however much of a loss he would be, because we have a conveyor belt set up to replace him.

I disagree personally.

I don't think we have or will ever have a conveyor belt of Premier league players ready to replace anyone.

O'Shea and Esteve are the only 2 centre halves at the club anywhere near that level.

If we're talking short term then yes we do have some other capable defenders at the club who could replace him in the championship, but that's surely not the ambition.

If we get the going rate for a PL centre half that's young and can score (20m+) I'd be tempted- but I wouldn't entertain and I think it would be bad business for anything less than that.

[boyyanno]

People talk about us selling players like it’s unusual behaviour. It’s frustrating and it’s hard to take at times, but it’s pretty much what every club in the land outside of those backed by states do, particularly after a relegation.

I don't think it's unusual, we are and likely always will be a selling club.

What I would find unusual though is if we sell key players (unless its for stupid fees) when we've got multiple big money signings and a huge squad full of players that barely kick a ball for us.

[agreenwood]

I don't think it's unusual, we are and likely always will be a selling club.

What I would find unusual though is if we sell key players (unless its for stupid fees) when we've got multiple big money signings and a huge squad full of players that barely kick a ball for us.

The key players are the ones the interest will be in. I’m sure we’d have flogged several of the reserves if the money had been there.

[RVclaret]

I disagree personally.

I don't think we have or will ever have a conveyor belt of Premier league players ready to replace anyone.

O'Shea and Esteve are the only 2 centre halves at the club anywhere near that level.

If we're talking short term then yes we do have some other capable defenders at the club who could replace him in the championship, but that's surely not the ambition.

If we get the going rate for a PL centre half that's young and can score (20m+) I'd be tempted- but I wouldn't entertain and I think it would be bad business for anything less than that.

I think Beyer & Al-Dakhil have the potential to make it at that level. O’Shea didn’t look at that level for a while last season. Not sure it’s fair to say the former 2 aren’t anywhere near, they either got shafted by VK’s positioning, tactics or injuries. I guess when someone steps into someone else’s shoes you never really know, Tarkowski stepped into Keane’s despite being unproven etc. Then having said all that, the ambition is to get promoted this season, a new CB could be signed in the summer if promoted.

[ksrclaret]

I think Beyer & Al-Dakhil have the potential to make it at that level. O’Shea didn’t look at that level for a while last season. Not sure it’s fair to say the former 2 aren’t anywhere near, they either got shafted by VK’s positioning, tactics or injuries. I guess when someone steps into someone else’s shoes you never really know, Tarkowski stepped into Keane’s despite being unproven etc. Then having said all that, the ambition is to get promoted this season, a new CB could be signed in the summer if promoted.

We’ve no idea when those two will be available though.

Keeping O’Shea makes it more likely we will go back up and it will allow us to strengthen elsewhere if we do because we will already have two PL centre backs ready to go.

This sale is one that doesn’t make much sense to me if the ambition is to go back up.

[Big Vinny K]

The key players are the ones the interest will be in. I’m sure we’d have flogged several of the reserves if the money had been there.

Exactly this.

As good as last night was it will also mean the likes of Dara and Esteve are even more likely to attract interest between now and the end of the window.

The one thing we know for sure is that the squad needs cutting - SP has been asked this in nearly every interview and confirmed that we need to.

Of course nobody wants to lose their best players but the reality is that we are probably looking to bring in at least £30m in players sales and get out of the door (by sales or loans) at least 7 or 8 players.

Hopefully SP will be saying that if we have to lose Berge we need to keep Brownhill and the same with one of Esteve or Dara or Odobert / Koleosho.

Still think that there could be at least a couple of incomings too

[SirBob]

Flipping O’Shea for double what we paid is what we’re all about. It’s our raison d’etre.

It wouldn’t be a lack of ambition to sell O’Shea, however much of a loss he would be, because we have a conveyor belt set up to replace him.

While flipping double what we paid sounds impressive it’s not really when you consider his worth to this club, we should easily be able to get 18+ million add ons for him.

What did we pay for Koleosho? 3mil? Does that mean we should just accept 6 million for him now we’ve flipped him for double the money, it’s what we’re all about.

[boyyanno]

I think Beyer & Al-Dakhil have the potential to make it at that level. O’Shea didn’t look at that level for a while last season. Not sure it’s fair to say the former 2 aren’t anywhere near, they either got shafted by VK’s positioning, tactics or injuries. I guess when someone steps into someone else’s shoes you never really know, Tarkowski stepped into Keane’s despite being unproven etc. Then having said all that, the ambition is to get promoted this season, a new CB could be signed in the summer if promoted.

I don't think Beyer will to be honest.

O'Shea looked better than him last year (certainly defensively) but I think one of the big things is that O'Shea will likely score a few headers and that will make a big impact on his valuation.

AAD is an interesting one- I think he's got a big future ahead of him but he's a couple of years behind O'Shea imo. It's also important to note that we've given O'Shea that season of experience in the PL which will stand him in good stead.

The point I'm making is we could sign a centre half if we go back up, but it's likely we will be back to square one where we sign an O'Shea replacement (they then need 12 months to bed in) they cost you a similar amount, and you end up worse for it on the pitch.

If the ambition is to get back to the PL and try and stay there we can't flog the one or two ready made PL players we have and then just keep trying again every year.

When the model was criticised last year. You and others defended it by saying we would keep those players and become stronger.

You've also said everywhere that you would NOT sell Esteve- why not? Could you not make the same argument that you have above?

I think really those who advocate for selling O'Shea don't really rate him (which is fair enough) but I'd rather you say that than somthing forward that you'd disagree with if it was put forward about Esteve.

[FeedTheArf]

As quoted above " better business would be the £200 mill prem money "

Undoubtedly it would. But if this season is anything like the last relegation, where we had to pay a lump of the loans back as a championship club is more of a liability, I would be astounded if we didn't have loan obligations to pay back this summer.

Yes we've had the unexpected bonus of some Kompany compensation and Muric sale, but with our obligations to buy Tresor and Esteve, as well as smaller deals for Pires and Hountondji, I reckon our net spend is around £25m in the minus before any loans/interest payments.

Lets face it, nobody is coming in for the likes of Obafemi, Egan Riley etc. unless it's a loan deal or sold on for relative peanuts like Bastien and BPF. If we're going to balance the books it's going to be through deals that are going to hurt - Berge, O'Shea, Odobert

[NewClaret]

I disagree personally.

I don't think we have or will ever have a conveyor belt of Premier league players ready to replace anyone.

O'Shea and Esteve are the only 2 centre halves at the club anywhere near that level.

If we're talking short term then yes we do have some other capable defenders at the club who could replace him in the championship, but that's surely not the ambition.

If we get the going rate for a PL centre half that's young and can score (20m+) I'd be tempted- but I wouldn't entertain and I think it would be bad business for anything less than that.

Couldn't agree with this more.

Selling one of our two premier league CB's when that's when we aspire to be is never good business.

Even if we get £20m, we'll have to find another of his calibre - pace, good in the air, scores goals and leadership qualities - if we go up, so our £13m profit less anything we have to WBA will have to be spent on another, probably inferior, player. Far better to keep a good core together and sell off the fringe players first.

[NewClaret]

While flipping double what we paid sounds impressive it’s not really when you consider his worth to this club, we should easily be able to get 18+ million add ons for him.

What did we pay for Koleosho? 3mil? Does that mean we should just accept 6 million for him now we’ve flipped him for double the money, it’s what we’re all about.

Ipswich paid £18.5m for Greaves who has bever kicked a ball in the premier league. We should be able to get more than £18m in my opinion. If we have to sell we should be looking at Collins money.

[RVclaret]

Couldn't agree with this more.

Selling one of our two premier league CB's when that's when we aspire to be is never good business.

Even if we get £20m, we'll have to find another of his calibre - pace, good in the air, scores goals and leadership qualities - if we go up, so our £13m profit less anything we have to WBA will have to be spent on another, probably inferior, player. Far better to keep a good core together and sell off the fringe players first.

The problem is the fringe players are all injured, in that position. Who’s buying injured players?

[Big Vinny K]

Lee Mooney has already worked out that we have a 72.37657% of going up if we sell Dara, Odobert and Berge.

Alan has reminded the rest of the board that Mooney was spot on with his prediction last year that we had a 2 in 3 chance of being relegated.

They both apologised for not pointing this out to the board and investors before we spent all their money on new players.

In all seriousness what makes good or bad business sense is not as simple as just looking at what happens on the pitch and giving ourselves the best possible chance of promotion. Relegation was always going to have an impact on our finances and debt commitments so unless we get some very surprising offers for our “poorer” players then it’s very likely we will need to sell some of our best ones.

[NewClaret]

The problem is the fringe players are all injured, in that position. Who’s buying injured players?

I was talking more generally about fringe players vs CB specifically.

I could stomach Weggy, Amdouni (wouldn’t call them fringe), McNally, Twine, Obafemi as 5 off the top of my head.

I like all of the above but there’s 5 off the top of my head.

[ksrclaret]

Couldn't agree with this more.

Selling one of our two premier league CB's when that's when we aspire to be is never good business.

Even if we get £20m, we'll have to find another of his calibre - pace, good in the air, scores goals and leadership qualities - if we go up, so our £13m profit less anything we have to WBA will have to be spent on another, probably inferior, player. Far better to keep a good core together and sell off the fringe players first.

Absolutely spot on. This would be a very short sighted decision from us that could end up costing us quite a bit more than we get in profit.

[fatboy47]

I'd imagine the prognoses (sp) for Beyer,Al-Dak and Ekdal will have a bearing on our willingness to part with O'Shea.

All three are young developing players who've shown they can certainly hack this division.

A fit Beyer is a class act, as is Al-Dak in his right position.

[RVclaret]

I was talking more generally about fringe players vs CB specifically.

I could stomach Weggy, Amdouni (wouldn’t call them fringe), McNally, Twine, Obafemi as 5 off the top of my head.

I like all of the above but there’s 5 off the top of my head.

Sounds good in theory and I understand the logic but the question is whether suitable offers are received for these players, and if we have cash flow obligations to meet in the immediacy then cashing in on someone we actually have large offers on, and appears somewhat replaceable, could be a factor in the decision making.

[warksclaret]

Appreciate we may need to sell O Shea. However he has a physicality about him (like Tarks had), brilliant in the air (as he showed yet again with that superb goal), quick, brave , gets stuck in, has that nastiness about him, and is like an ox-(has yet to be out injured for us). Thats why clubs are showing interest. Sadly with the best will in the world, none of our other central defenders including Esteve, have all of these rare qualities. Add to that he is an organiser and talker. If it came to one of Berge or OShea being sold, for me it would be Berge, who by the way I really rate

[northeastclaret]

Leaders in the dressing room and on the pitch like O’Shea are a lot rarer in teams than they used to be. Must be worth far more to us this season than whatever fee he might bring in .

[KRBFC]

I thought Kompany signed a bunch of crap players last summer?

Odobert Berge O’Shea Esteve Trafford all linked with moves

Ramsey injured but I’m confident based on his record at this level and his performance at home to Man United he’ll prove to be a very good signing in the long run.

Koleosho at £2.5-3m is an absolute steal.

Delcroix and Redmond signed for peanuts as cover.

Are we putting Tresor in the flop column?


Looks like a very good strike rate to me…..

[boatshed bill]

I'm not really up to speed on the rules, but can any player who played for us last night get a move in this window and play for another club before the end of the Winter window?

[NewClaret]

Sounds good in theory and I understand the logic but the question is whether suitable offers are received for these players, and if we have cash flow obligations to meet in the immediacy then cashing in on someone we actually have large offers on, and appears somewhat replaceable, could be a factor in the decision making.

Yes, I realise it might not be so simple in practice. I am just saying what I would like the strategy to be. What I would have liked the club to be working towards and trying to action.

I realise that may not always be feasible for a variety of reasons and we don't know a tenth of full picture in terms of finances, contract terms, player wishes, gentleman's agreements, injuries - etc.

[TsarBomba]

Sounds good in theory and I understand the logic but the question is whether suitable offers are received for these players, and if we have cash flow obligations to meet in the immediacy then cashing in on someone we actually have large offers on, and appears somewhat replaceable, could be a factor in the decision making.

Spot on.

Nobody wants O’Shea sold, and if we could flog all our deadwood and avoid selling our star players then that would be the dream. But we all know that’s not going to happen.

Also- an excellent selling point for the club is we don’t obstruct a move later down the line to a bigger club/established PL club, so long as our valuation is met.

[claretburns]

I'm not really up to speed on the rules, but can any player who played for us last night get a move in this window and play for another club before the end of the Winter window?

Yes, the rule is a player can't play for more than 2 clubs in a season.

[boatshed bill]

Yes, the rule is a player can't play for more than 2 clubs in a season.

Thanks

[Firthy]

I'd be very surprised if we sell O'Shea. We lack home grown players already and selling him won't help.

[burnmark]

Szmodics starts for Blackburn in the cup. I have a feeling he’s going to stay there.

[claretburns]

Szmodics starts for Blackburn in the cup. I have a feeling he’s going to stay there.

Also playing Arnór Sigurðsson who is reportedly off to QPR.

[Colburn_Claret]

I warned weeks ago, about throwing the baby out with the bath water. Selling O'shea would be a huge mistake. We have plenty of fringe players who can make a profit, even if it's a smaller one. Losing key players, young, rising talent, and a leader to boot would be frankly stupid.

[TsarBomba]

Szmodics starts for Blackburn in the cup. I have a feeling he’s going to stay there.

Scored already.

I still think he’ll go, and the later in the window it is the less time Rovers will have to replace him.

[NewClaret]

Spot on.

Nobody wants O’Shea sold, and if we could flog all our deadwood and avoid selling our star players then that would be the dream. But we all know that’s not going to happen.

Also- an excellent selling point for the club is we don’t obstruct a move later down the line to a bigger club/established PL club, so long as our valuation is met.

I agree on the last point (there is a benefit to be seen not to obstruct moves) but would add:

- if our goal is to become an established premier league club again, which we were but now we’re not, we need to surely prioritise keeping our premier league quality players. It’s one thing saying we shouldn’t obstruct them but our interests should come first.

- many players linked with move have been here one season. It’s the exact situation Checketts was talking about. I think it’s not unreasonable to ask for a few season at least else every player we sign will assume a move the following summer may be on. I don’t think it would damage our reputation to block a few moves this summer for newly-arrived players.

But I do agree with RV that we probably can’t plan or determine which players we get offers for and obviously it’ll always be our best players who get the offers.

[billyhamilton82]

Scored already.

I still think he’ll go, and the later in the window it is the less time Rovers will have to replace him.

Already scored twice.... Rovers 4-0 up within half an hour

[randomclaret2]

Scored already.

I still think he’ll go, and the later in the window it is the less time Rovers will have to replace him.

Mentioned on TalkSport earlier that the 2 clubs are only £500k apart now in their valuations of Szmodics. Loose change for a Premier League club but big money for minnows like Blackburn.

[TopCat]

When does the window shut?

[elwaclaret]

We get a lot of talk about long term plans; but to me selling O’Shea to Brentford would be anything but long-term thinking. Surely our aim is to return to the Premier next season… the long term view would be to try to resist selling our top assets. Selling to a club we have to see as our direct competitors I.e. have to be looking to finish above and who will be shopping in the same market next season, seems contrary to long term thought and blinkered short term grasping. It would take a jaw dropping offer and a player asking to go before I’d deal with Brentford (unless Parker sees an opportunity for a part ex he fancies).

[claretskeith]

When does the window shut?

According to Sky, August 30th at 11pm.

[Colburn_Claret]

We get a lot of talk about long term plans; but to me selling O’Shea to Brentford would be anything but long-term thinking. Surely our aim is to return to the Premier next season… the long term view would be to try to resist selling our top assets. Selling to a club we have to see as our direct competitors I.e. have to be looking to finish above and who will be shopping in the same market next season, seems contrary to long term thought and blinkered short term grasping. It would take a jaw dropping offer and a player asking to go before I’d deal with Brentford (unless Parker sees an opportunity for a part ex he fancies).

There's also an argument that his improvement, which he has shown over the last 6 months, and hopefully continue, will mean his valuation will be a lot higher in 12 months time. Unless the club believe he's peaked, which I doubt, it makes even less sense.

[LongsideClaret]

Wouldn’t be surprised to see O’Shea gone by the end of the window but nobody has met the fee we demand yet so nothing imminent.

[123EasyasBFC]

Wouldn’t be surprised to see O’Shea gone by the end of the window but nobody has met the fee we demand yet so nothing imminent.

Is there any movement at all yet on the fringe players leaving, the likes of Delcroix, McNally, twine, obafemi

[LongsideClaret]

Is there any movement at all yet on the fringe players leaving, the likes of Delcroix, McNally, twine, obafemi

Heard that Twine could yet stay. Mcnally is one we would sell but he’s currently our next in line to start due to injuries so think that gets done later in the window. Not heard about the other two but suspect both would be players we are looking to move on.

[jojomk1]

According to Sky, August 30th at 11pm.

Need to iron my yellow tie ready for the day

[Hedontplayforyou]

Heard that Twine could yet stay. Mcnally is one we would sell but he’s currently our next in line to start due to injuries so think that gets done later in the window. Not heard about the other two but suspect both would be players we are looking to move on.

Amdouni or Weghorst to go? Or both?

[claretskeith]

I thought Amdouni was injured.

[123EasyasBFC]

Heard that Twine could yet stay. Mcnally is one we would sell but he’s currently our next in line to start due to injuries so think that gets done later in the window. Not heard about the other two but suspect both would be players we are looking to move on.

If there’s potential for twine to stay then you’d imagine one of Amdouni or weghorst have to leave, maybe even both purely for squad size

[claretskeith]

If there’s potential for twine to stay then you’d imagine one of Amdouni or weghorst have to leave, maybe even both purely for squad size

Or Berge is likely to leave with them both being central midfielders.

[Quickenthetempo]

Twine has to stay until someone else can get in the squad who is homegrown.

[123EasyasBFC]

Or Berge is likely to leave with them both being central midfielders.

I wouldn’t class twine as a centre midfielder, if we sell Berge we would need a replacement. Twine isn’t a Berge replacement