The team we have sold

[dsr]

These players were on the back page of last week's programme and weren't involved today.

Johann Berg Gudmondsson (sold)
Scott Twine (sold)
Sander Berge (sold)
Anass Zaroury (sold)
Wilson Odobert (sold)

Dara O'Shea
Manuel Benson
Josh Cullen
Wout Weghorst
Luca Koleosho
Mike Tresor

Are we going to lose all of this lot, plus Vitinho, Amdouni McNally, and Al Dakhill?

And when we add Muric, does that mean that we will have sold the best Championship XI anyone has ever sold in a single window? A bit short of defenders and centre forwards, but the creativity and excitement that we are getting shut of is huge. Still, creativity? Excitement? Who needs them.

[timshorts]

You could play obafemi up front.

[claret2018]

I’m glad you posted this, I’d have had no idea we’d sold any players otherwise.

[ClaretOfMancunia]

You could play obafemi up front.

He's gone/going.

[ClaretPete001]

What did you expect DSR? We have a thread full with a million plus comments about the debt, the Auditors report and the fact the club said they were going to sell 6 senior players.

[RVclaret]

What did you expect DSR? We have a thread full with a million plus comments about the debt, the Auditors report and the fact the club said they were going to sell 6 senior players.

The club never said this. Once again you state something as a fact which isn’t. How about we try:

‘According to the Athletic, some sources had told them there was an acceptance 4/5 first team players will leave, including Muric’

So far there’s been Muric, Odobert, Berge and O’Shea.

[scouseclaret]

I’m glad you posted this, I’d have had no idea we’d sold any players otherwise.

It’s still useful to see them all listed in one place. I’ve been trying to get my head round how we seem to have gone from ridiculously bloated squad of 40+ players to a situation where we have two goalkeepers and three apprentices on the bench in the space of 2 weeks!

[ClaretPete001]

The club never said this. Once again you state something as a fact which isn’t. How about we try:

‘According to the Athletic, some sources had told them there was an acceptance 4/5 first team players will leave, including Muric’

So far there’s been Muric, Odobert, Berge and O’Shea.

It's funny that last time you made a comment like that you cited the Athletic. So, JBG and Zaroury aren't classed as senior players...?

The context of the conversation was being surprised at what has happened.

The Auditors said the club would have to sell. It was reported in the media that Alan Pace said as such.

It's also well documented on the ALK thread that we would likely have to sell. It happened last time we went down and most relegated clubs have to sell.

No surprises in what has happened. You can't change the fact by cherry picking the bits that fit your narrative and making silly comments.

[ClaretPete001]

It’s still useful to see them all listed in one place. I’ve been trying to get my head round how we seem to have gone from ridiculously bloated squad of 40+ players to a situation where we have two goalkeepers and three apprentices on the bench in the space of 2 weeks!

Becuase you have to sell the players that have value and that does not necessarily equate to a balanced squad.

[beddie]

Is Weghorst still with us?

[scouseclaret]

I don’t think anyone is disputing the fact that we need to sell. , but do we need to sell everybody???

Including Kompany, we must’ve raked-in over £80m already.

[BleedingClaret]

The policy seems to have been
But all the wingers in the world
Play 1
Sell all the wingers you have
Have none

[claretskeith]

I don’t think anyone is disputing the fact that we need to sell. , but do we need to sell everybody???

Including Kompany, we must’ve raked-in over £80m already.

And how much is promotion... £220 million?

We can wave goodbye to that.

[mdd2]

I don’t think anyone is disputing the fact that we need to sell. , but do we need to sell everybody???

Including Kompany, we must’ve raked-in over £80m already.

Isnt it Muric 11million
VK 10mill
Odobert 30
OShea 15
Berger 25
Gudmonson 1.5
Zaroury 7
Peacock Farrell 0.5mill
Twine 2.5mill
And Wolves wanting Koleosho
Leeds and others Benson
Al-Dakhill off the Germany
Weghorst wants out
Amdouni rumours around Benfica
If all that comes to pass then I fear our season to come.

[RVclaret]

I don’t think anyone is disputing the fact that we need to sell. , but do we need to sell everybody???

Including Kompany, we must’ve raked-in over £80m already.

We’re on over £100m.

[BurnleyFC]

We’re on over £100m.

Still not enough for thrifty Al.

[claretskeith]

We’re on over £100m.

5 billion in debt by the sounds of things. How much for a chair?

[Devils_Advocate]

So far we've sold just 3 of our starling 11 and have a solid replacement in for one of them already. Thinning out some of he squad members whilst getting good money seems to sensible to me and allows Parker to bring in some of his own players.

Ultimately the transfer window and possibly the season hinges and what happens to the following 5 players: Esteve, Brownhill, Cullen, Amdouni, & Koleosho

If we keep all of them then despite a difficult weak it will have been an excellent window and we'll have a team who should be challenging for the title again

If we lose 1 out of 5 then I think we've done ok and should leave us easily enough to get promoted

If 2 go then its a bit more of a challenge and will depend on how good the replacements are and how quickly Parker can gel a new team together. With a few good signings I still think we should be one of the favourites for promotion but can understand why people would be upset and worried

If 3 or more go then I think we might struggle as we will have effectively ripped out most of our team plus some of the squad members who might have been able to step in

[JohnMac]

Zaroury has hardly been involved for the past 12 months and to me isn't too much of a loss. Likewise Benson, Twine, Weghorst.

I'm genuinely not unhappy about Wilson Odobert as to stop such a talent progressing would be selfish.

Berge I think has been told his fabulous International career would be in jeopardy by playing in the Championship. About time International threats were curtailed though, if they are good enough they will play and most International games for better or worse are against poor Nations anyway.

I'm not sure there really is much to gripe about at the moment other than we lack a decent striker.

[ClaretPete001]

We’re on over £100m.

For once, can you at least cite where you have got that figure from including the money we have spent and bearing in mind in the last set of accounts we had over £230 million worth of creditors.

Not to mention the £40 - £50 million we will lose as a consequence of relegation.

For once properly cite your responses and give a context to the overall debt.

No conjecture no figures pulled out of the air just what we know to be true.

And it's not just because it will take you a bit of time and a few paragraphs and not just because some tw*t will pick on one minor point irrelevant to the overall point and quibble over a Euro conversion or similar.

[RVclaret]

For once, can you at least cite where you have got that figure from including the money we have spent and bearing in mind in the last set of accounts we had over £230 million worth of creditors.

Not to mention the £40 - £50 million we will lose as a consequence of relegation.

For once properly cite your responses and give a context to the overall debt.

No conjecture no figures pulled out of the air just what we know to be true.

I’m not talking about debt. Talking about total player sales so far, which is what I replied to.

Figures taken from the Athletic or Nixon, probably the two most reliable reporters for us.

Kompany 10-13
Muric 10-15
Odobert 30
BPF 0.5
Vigouroux 0.5
Twine 3.5-4
O’Shea 15-17
Berge 20-25
Zaroury 7-7.7

£96.5-112.5m.

Benson, Weghorst, McNally all certs to add this week too it seems.

Spent around £7-8m.

[NEILTHO61]

Isnt it Muric 11million
VK 10mill
Odobert 30
OShea 15
Berger 25
Gudmonson 1.5
Zaroury 7
Peacock Farrell 0.5mill
Twine 2.5mill
And Wolves wanting Koleosho
Leeds and others Benson
Al-Dakhill off the Germany
Weghorst wants out
Amdouni rumours around Benfica
If all that comes to pass then I fear our season to come.

You forgot the prize money from finishing 19th in the Premier league

[NEILTHO61]

How much prize money did we get from our position in the Premier league

[Enola Gay]

How much prize money did we get from our position in the Premier league

The figure I've seen quoted most often is £3.1million per place.

If true, gives us £6.2m for finishing 19th.

[FCBurnley]

What about the parachute money ?

[AfloatinClaret]

The club never said this. Once again you state something as a fact which isn’t. How about we try:

‘According to the Athletic, some sources had told them there was an acceptance 4/5 first team players will leave, including Muric’

So far there’s been Muric, Odobert, Berge and O’Shea.

So unless you are telling us that either the Athletic, or 'some sources' now own BFC, then 'the club' didn't say '4/5 first team players will leave, including Muric' either; in which case it appears that 'Once again you state something as a fact which isn’t.'

[ClaretPete001]

I’m not talking about debt. Talking about total player sales so far, which is what I replied to.

Figures taken from the Athletic or Nixon, probably the two most reliable reporters for us.

Kompany 10-13
Muric 10-15
Odobert 30
BPF 0.5
Vigouroux 0.5
Twine 3.5-4
O’Shea 15-17
Berge 20-25
Zaroury 7-7.7

£96.5-112.5m.

Benson, Weghorst, McNally all certs to add this week too it seems.

Spent around £7-8m.

The post you replied to was asking the question how much have we made from player sales.

Nobody thinks Nixon is a reliable source and I can't check your figures...! So, I presume your figures include add-ons, which we can't say we will receive.

This is what is on Transfermarket anyone can check it.

Received

Odobert 29.00
Sander Berge 23.55
Dara O'Shea 14.20
Arijanet Muric 9.55
Anass Zaroury 9.00
Scott Twine 3.75
Bailey Peacock-Farrell 0.5
Samuel Bastien 0.25
Eur 90

Let's say £76 million

Vigouroux £0.5 (Uncited on Transfer market. Accept the figure of 0.5)
Kompany £10.00 (The Independent, TransferMarket)

£86.5 Million

Mike Trésor €18.00m
Maxime Estève €12.00m
Joe Worrall €5.90m
Andreas Hountondji €4.00m
Lucas Pires €2.30m
Eur42 million

Lets say £36million

Net Income £50 million

So, the Net revenue so far is around £50 million.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I’m not talking about debt. Talking about total player sales so far, which is what I replied to.

Figures taken from the Athletic or Nixon, probably the two most reliable reporters for us.

Kompany 10-13
Muric 10-15
Odobert 30
BPF 0.5
Vigouroux 0.5
Twine 3.5-4
O’Shea 15-17
Berge 20-25
Zaroury 7-7.7

£96.5-112.5m.

Benson, Weghorst, McNally all certs to add this week too it seems.

Spent around £7-8m.

Wasn’t Tresor like 20m and Esteve 15m?

That’s before any other signings this window

[ClaretPete001]

What about the parachute money ?

The last time we got relegated we lost around £55 million of broadcast revenue.

[randomclaret2]

The figure I've seen quoted most often is £3.1million per place.

If true, gives us £6.2m for finishing 19th.

The overall amount we will have received for last season will be around £110m.

[ClaretPete001]

Wasn’t Tresor like 20m and Esteve 15m?

That’s before any other signings this window

Around Eur30 million for Tresor and Esteve.

[ClaretPete001]

The overall amount we will have received for last season will be around £110m.

I would think it will be higher than that - more like £130 million - but expenditure will be up. We haven't yet seen those accounts so it's quite possible we made money.

But the Creditors stood at £230 million in the last accounts and debtors around £50 million (excluding inter company loans).

There are no problems if we go up but ALK also have to balance risk with the fact that we may not...!

I am not saying there are problems, I am just explaining why they have had to sell players and why we knew they would from the start of the summer.

[RVclaret]

Wasn’t Tresor like 20m and Esteve 15m?

That’s before any other signings this window

Tresor 13m (Athletic) & Esteve 10m (L’equipe).

I count them in last seasons spend of circa £100m.

Can’t say Tresor is a new signing when he’s not even training with us.

[Stonehouse]

I would think it will be higher than that - more like £130 million - but expenditure will be up. We haven't yet seen those accounts so it's quite possible we made money.

But the Creditors stood at £230 million in the last accounts and debtors around £50 million (excluding inter company loans).

There are no problems if we go up but ALK also have to balance risk with the fact that we may not...!

I am not saying there are problems, I am just explaining why they have had to sell players and why we knew they would from the start of the summer.

How the chuff have we accrued £230 million in debt?

[Devils_Advocate]

Tresor 13m (Athletic) & Esteve 10m (L’equipe).

I count them in last seasons spend of circa £100m.

Can’t say Tresor is a new signing when he’s not even training with us.

By that logic would you not count Humphreys in this years spend then?

[ClaretPete001]

Tresor 13m (Athletic) & Esteve 10m (L’equipe).

I count them in last seasons spend of circa £100m.

Can’t say Tresor is a new signing when he’s not even training with us.

Equipe says Eur 12 million like Transfermarket. And most sites I can see say Eur18 million for Tresor as I've quoted above

You don't include Tresor because he's not training with us.....? I'm afraid that in the real world that's not an option

Last years spend of around £95 million is accounted for

Zeki Amdouni 19
James Trafford 17.3
Aaron Ramsey 16.45
Jordan Beyer 15
Sander Berge 14
Wilson Odobert 12
Dara O'Shea 8
Michael Obafemi 4
Hannes Delcroix 3
Luca Koleosho 3
Eur111.75

[Big Vinny K]

How the chuff have we accrued £230 million in debt?

Possibly half of that will be outstanding transfer commitments and I’d imagine bulk of the rest is our loans.

There will be an element of that creditors number which is I imagine is just point in time stuff - ie the accounts are cut off at the year end date and there will be operating costs that we owe (running costs etc)

[ClaretPete001]

How the chuff have we accrued £230 million in debt?

It's in the accounts. £70 million of bank loans and £ 70 million of trade creditors, various factoring and then a sum of £50 million, which is probably TV broadcast revenue taken early probably to fund some of the the £100 million spend last summer so it's possible that we have paid off that figure with broadcast revenue subsequently received.

To repeat, I am not saying there is an issue if we get back into the PL but the board have to be cautious and with a loss of broadcast revenue of £50 million they need to sell players both to reduce the debt and to get the salary figure down.

It is always going to be a challenging balancing act if you get relegated because the consequences of relegation are so severe.

[ClaretPete001]

Possibly half of that will be outstanding transfer commitments and I’d imagine bulk of the rest is our loans.

There will be an element of that creditors number which is I imagine is just point in time stuff - ie the accounts are cut off at the year end date and there will be operating costs that we owe (running costs etc)

Agreed this is fag packet stuff - you can't take any of these figures without context, which is why it is so hard posting on this issue.

[Foshiznik]

So many people on this message board seem to be in the know on every thread that I sometimes feel like I’ve accidentally been given access to the clubs internal communication system.

[dsr]

So many people on this message board seem to be in the know on every thread that I sometimes feel like I’ve accidentally been given access to the clubs internal communication system.

I think the season ticket fiasco suggests that even the people who work there don't have access to the "internal communication system".

[BleedingClaret]

How the chuff have we accrued £230 million in debt?

And have a team out like that and that BENCH at Sunderland

[roperclaret]

And have a team out like that and that BENCH at Sunderland

I find it remarkable that some fans really don’t understand the vast sums involved in even trying to compete in the Premier league. We have just sold 2 players who are definitely unproven at the level for over £25 million each. Ever since we went up under Dyche we have been trying to shop in TK Maxx looking for bargains to help us survive. The difference now is that we didn’t survive and the players we bought held their value.

[BurnleyFC]

If, by some minor miracle, we do get promoted again this season, what the hell are we going to do when we’re tasked with an even bigger rebuild?

The squad as it stands wouldn’t get a single point in the Premier League.

[AGENT_CLARET]

If, by some minor miracle, we do get promoted again this season, what the hell are we going to do when we’re tasked with an even bigger rebuild?

The squad as it stands wouldn’t get a single point in the Premier League.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Screenshot_20240826_103520_com_whatsapp_MediaViewActivity.jpg (355.28 KiB) Viewed 1765 times

[roperclaret]

If, by some minor miracle, we do get promoted again this season, what the hell are we going to do when we’re tasked with an even bigger rebuild?

The squad as it stands wouldn’t get a single point in the Premier League.

Ipswich have spent €115 million so far and they might not get a point either

[BleedingClaret]

I find it remarkable that some fans really don’t understand the vast sums involved in even trying to compete in the Premier league. We have just sold 2 players who are definitely unproven at the level for over £25 million each. Ever since we went up under Dyche we have been trying to shop in TK Maxx looking for bargains to help us survive. The difference now is that we didn’t survive and the players we bought held their value.

And we went straight back up after all the Dyche relegations once under Kompany
If we don’t go up now then we go into financial meltdown
The way we turned out on Saturday doesn’t get us back up
I understand that
And I say it again
We have made money on player sales
Simple buying and selling
Besides Odobert
The others after the buying loan interest
Refinancing loans to pay loans interest on interest Wages money back to the original selling club Factoring (Bridging loans) incurring interest on the selling fee for liquidity
Players bought not good enough to stay in the EPL purpose they were bought for and paid
So loss of EPL revenue 60mil first year?
TV revenue 40m compared to EFL
That’s 100m
We are not making money
What don’t you understand
Some loans are secured on the Turf
What don’t you understand
I understand we had no choice to sell
But at this level for immediate survival
Avoidance of FFP fines and points deduction but in the mid to long term it looks like disaster
Do you understand my concerns

[BleedingClaret]

Ipswich have spent €115 million so far and they might not get a point either

Their manager will at least play his best keeper
Players in their right positions
Substitutions appropriate to the situation on the field
Support his players
They’ll have a go
The fans will have a ball like Luton’s
It will end in tears most likely but they won’t taste bitter
When they come down they might even try and keep a few of those players that they bought and try and go back up
What a thought

[roperclaret]

And we went straight back up after all the Dyche relegations once under Kompany
If we don’t go up now then we go into financial meltdown
The way we turned out on Saturday doesn’t get us back up
I understand that
And I say it again
We have made money on player sales
Simple buying and selling
Besides Odobert
The others after the buying loan interest
Refinancing loans to pay loans interest on interest Wages money back to the original selling club Factoring (Bridging loans) incurring interest on the selling fee for liquidity
Players bought not good enough to stay in the EPL purpose they were bought for and paid
So loss of EPL revenue 60mil first year?
TV revenue 40m compared to EFL
That’s 100m
We are not making money
What don’t you understand
Some loans are secured on the Turf
What don’t you understand
I understand we had no choice to sell
But at this level for immediate survival
Avoidance of FFP fines and points deduction but in the mid to long term it looks like disaster
Do you understand my concerns

Yes I understand your concerns. Ultimately the point I’m making is that really we don’t belong in the Premier League. We are just not big enough.