The Foster Paradox

[WazzaClaret]

It's obviously been an absolute crap start to the season and a lot of that has come down to such an overhaul of the first team. A lot of them don't look good enough at moment but I can't help but think of how foster was last year. I didn't think in a million years foster would become our best player in the premier League after his performances from last season. Is there an argument that if by some miracle we stay up we could see the same effect next year? Tresor is the main one that springs to mind.

Maybe I'm clutching at straws but I've seen glimpses so far to suggest there's plenty of gears these players can go through.

[clansman]

I think you are clutching at straws though I admire your optimism. The reality is this group of players are talented but don’t have a clue how to win or even manage the game.The Foster situation is mysterious. He is our hope plus 2 good experienced signings in January!! 17th is the target. Who knows with a little luck we might make it!!

[Spiral]

Bags of potential all over this team, but you look at something like their first goal, that's just raw inexperience from Beyer thinking he can get away with defending at 90% intensity. Whistle to whistle you've got to fight for every inch like your life depends on it in the prem. Tresor has shown some of this slackness at times this season, Amdouni has at times, AAD, too, the list goes on...

It takes time to step up and make that required intensity and concentration an automatic thing. You can get away with a few players making small errors if they're surrounded by experienced players covering for the mistakes, but when you've got a chain of five players involved in a phase of play and they're all inexperienced, all their small errors compound into goals being conceded, and we can never get a foot in a game because of it. If it ever clicks this season and we start actually dominating against teams who are properly going for it (unlike Palace today, who just turned up and happened to win), it'll almost certainly be to late to do anything about the league position.

[spt_claret]

Bags of potential all over this team, but you look at something like their first goal, that's just raw inexperience from Beyer thinking he can get away with defending at 90% intensity. Whistle to whistle you've got to fight for every inch like your life depends on it in the prem. Tresor has shown some of this slackness at times this season, Amdouni has at times, AAD, too, the list goes on...

I increasingly think that a good 70-80% of football is about the mental game, with technical coming behind athletic.
Not just footballing intelligence & vision but mentality, workrate, bottle and will to win and improve and the ability to concentrate, focus and stay alert and hungry. A mate of mine was a nonleague player, he was on the books at a few league clubs but never made the grade, he has technical ability but there was just something lacking (he's not the brightest so could be that). At university there was a lad on the team who was brilliant, absolutely magical with the ball at his feet he'd run rings round everybody twice over, one game I got an assist just kicking it from defensive midfield to him and watching him take off. Never even tried to convert to pro because he didn't understand the need to pass to technically inferior players, and ultimately it was just a favoured hobby to him and never something he seriously considered as a job.

Practice can train up technical ability, you can't turn Chris Ronald into Cristiano Ronaldo but you can improve him a lot. And footballing intelligence comes with experience. But there's some innate mental and personality aspects that you just can't coach. You start to see the wisdom of Dyche's approach in prioritising the 'group of lads' and player mentality above anything, it's the foundation of everything.

[Spiral]

I increasingly think that a good 70-80% of football is about the mental game, with technical coming behind athletic.
Not just footballing intelligence & vision but mentality, workrate, bottle and will to win and improve and the ability to concentrate, focus and stay alert and hungry. A mate of mine was a nonleague player, he was on the books at a few league clubs but never made the grade, he has technical ability but there was just something lacking (he's not the brightest so could be that). At university there was a lad on the team who was brilliant, absolutely magical with the ball at his feet he'd run rings round everybody twice over, one game I got an assist just kicking it from defensive midfield to him and watching him take off. Never even tried to convert to pro because he didn't understand the need to pass to technically inferior players, and ultimately it was just a favoured hobby to him and never something he seriously considered as a job.

Practice can train up technical ability, you can't turn Chris Ronald into Cristiano Ronaldo but you can improve him a lot. And footballing intelligence comes with experience. But there's some innate mental and personality aspects that you just can't coach. You start to see the wisdom of Dyche's approach in prioritising the 'group of lads' and player mentality above anything, it's the foundation of everything.

Mate, I'm going 99%.

Personal anecdote. I'm out doing a 5k. I've set a PB in the past, never seemed to be able to better it, no matter how hard I try. I'm out in the evening, it's getting dark, I'm on this long stretch of road on my route, and I go round a bend and there's this lass our running same direction as me, and she's fast A.F. Now, she's running alone, it's a quiet road, it's getting dark and I'm bigger than her. In my mind I'm thinking, "oh $hit, I'm worried that this might be scary for her to have a bloke running behind her when it's getting dark". I don't wanna seem like I'm chasing her like some horror film, but I don't wanna stop either because I'm running a stopwatch. So I decide I'm gonna cross to the other side of the road, run with a really heavy footfall so she hears me and doesn't get spooked, and just try to get ahead of her. So I pick up the pace, get in front of her, and realise it'd be weird to slow down to match her pace again, because that itself is probably creepy, so now my head's full of Peep Show-esque neuroticism, and I decide I'm just gonna leg it and get as far in front as I can.

Absolutely smashed my PB, all because I didn't want to scare the $hit out of someone. It's all a mental game.

[ervi34]

The good thing with Foster last season was the fact that there was no real pressure on him, although we spent a lot to buy him. We pretty much knew we are going up when we signed him and there was no rush for him to start scoring. Kompany was patient with him; gave him some minutes from bench first, then a start in cup, then a start in league and so on.

This season however, we simply bought too many players who have a lot of potential but are too young and have zero experience in top football. PL is a lot tougher and their goals/assists are needed at the moment so they don't have luxury to adapt. On top of that, they are not robots. They are very young, moved countries, changed cultures of living and so on.

[BurnleyFC]

We really, really need a fit and firing Foster at this present time.

Let’s hope we have him back soon and the rumours about his mental health issues resurfacing are just that.

[CoolClaret]

Mate, I'm going 99%.

Personal anecdote. I'm out doing a 5k. I've set a PB in the past, never seemed to be able to better it, no matter how hard I try. I'm out in the evening, it's getting dark, I'm on this long stretch of road on my route, and I go round a bend and there's this lass our running same direction as me, and she's fast A.F. Now, she's running alone, it's a quiet road, it's getting dark and I'm bigger than her. In my mind I'm thinking, "oh $hit, I'm worried that this might be scary for her to have a bloke running behind her when it's getting dark". I don't wanna seem like I'm chasing her like some horror film, but I don't wanna stop either because I'm running a stopwatch. So I decide I'm gonna cross to the other side of the road, run with a really heavy footfall so she hears me and doesn't get spooked, and just try to get ahead of her. So I pick up the pace, get in front of her, and realise it'd be weird to slow down to match her pace again, because that itself is probably creepy, so now my head's full of Peep Show-esque neuroticism, and I decide I'm just gonna leg it and get as far in front as I can.

Absolutely smashed my PB, all because I didn't want to scare the $hit out of someone. It's all a mental game.

Look at Phil Bardsley.

Playing at 36 in the Prem for us when no other team would really have him even in the Champ but still managed to put in performances that won us points.

Heck even at 32/33 his inclusion and tenacity dug us out of a hole a few times.

I’ll go to MMA - McGregor.

When he was dominant he’d won a fight before he even stepped into the cage. He’s miles off ability wise than Jose Aldo or Max Holloway but he had more belief in himself than both of them put together!

Only when he has his first loss and the invincibility factor went/belief went is when he then couldn’t win a fight for toffee.

Same as happened at United.

Far more too it than data points and plucking players and expecting it to work.

[Fenwick]

To answer this you"ve got to put him in a sealed box with a radioactive isiotope trigger of an unknown half life

[criminalclaret]

Resurrecting a bir of an old thread (because there are plenty on Foster and creating another one seemed duplicitous) but it airs on the themes of this topic.

There is a player in there, but what position in Scott Parkers Burnley team to we play him?

Sole striker? In deep? Out wide? In a pairing?

He is the most enimagtic Burnley player I can remember and I just don't know what position we can maximise his strengths?

[claretdj]

Gears? Totally oblivious today, if we can get shut in January, then he got to go.

[criminalclaret]

Oh all the players signed in the last 2 years, I really really want to see Foster succeed. And I absolutely believe he could be a romping success in the championship. I just don't know where he fits in positionally to get the most out of him.

He's like an amazing painting that we just keeping moving from room to room seeing if it suits better in different places.

[KRBFC]

At what point do the fans wake up and smell the coffee?

He gets all the support the likes of Amdouni never got.

Iv never seen a more non threatening striker than Foster, at least Juke got his arse in there, backed in and held it up. Foster makes the basics look incredibly difficult, like he’s playing in bowling shoes.

[KRBFC]

Then he turns around today throwing a tantrum at his team mate because Lyle himself couldn’t control a simple pass along the ground. Trampoline Lyle

[RVclaret]

Foster was excellent against Blackburn, not as good today. No need to over analyse.

[BurnleyFC]

Foster was poor today, but did look better when Flemming came on.

[jlup1980]

There's no paradox. Foster simply isn't a footballer and shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11. Jay and Fleming would offer more. Obafemi would offer more and that's saying something!

[Burnley1989]

Foster is a good player dont be stupid.

He's struggling but he's definitely a good player.

[daveisaclaret]

If Sarmiento had played the ball quicker he'd have scored the winner today.

[Colburn_Claret]

I like Foster, even though he was off it today.

He's good on the deck, strong, can head a ball, but his biggest failing is he hardly leaves the ground.
Every cb who's marked him this season, has had the better of him, and because of that he just doesn't suit the lone striker role.
I'd love to see him strike a partnership with Flemming, but IF we have to play a lone striker Flemming is a lot better option.

[Cirrus_Minor]

I think Foster was playing as the focal point of our attack and was marked out of it. When Flemming came on he was running at them off the ball and this pushed their press further back. Clearly Scott will need to be working on transition from defence to our attack because it was poor in the first half.

[boyyanno]

I actually feel like Foster is doing as good a job as he can do in the role he's being asked to play. I think we need to find better ways to use him personally.

[RVclaret]

I like Foster, even though he was off it today.

He's good on the deck, strong, can head a ball, but his biggest failing is he hardly leaves the ground.
Every cb who's marked him this season, has had the better of him, and because of that he just doesn't suit the lone striker role.
I'd love to see him strike a partnership with Flemming, but IF we have to play a lone striker Flemming is a lot better option.

How have got the conclusion Flemming is ‘a lot better’ an option? From what I can see Flemming barely ever plays as a lone striker, while Foster did so at a much higher level last season, and was our best player before his issues. I hope we see both of them together and form a partnership, I think there’s great potential as a duo.

[Burnley87]

His movement is one of the worst I’ve seen off the ball however he has all the attributes to be a brilliant centre forward.

For a guy with running power like he has he should be looking at stretching the pitch for us and run the channels. Which would leave pockets for Fleming to operate. In the first half both him and Hannibal were coming deeper and deeper for the ball and the midfield was so congested there wasn’t any room to play. Some of our team need to be more selfish and look to let the players who are better at playing play and use there pace to get in behind like we did a lot at Luton

[willsclarets]

How have got the conclusion Flemming is ‘a lot better’ an option? From what I can see Flemming barely ever plays as a lone striker, while Foster did so at a much higher level last season, and was our best player before his issues. I hope we see both of them together and form a partnership, I think there’s great potential as a duo.

He's clearly not suited to being a lone striker. I would love to see a heat map comparison before and after the subs were made. In the first half, he plodded back and forth coming short for the ball. His control just isn't good enough to warrant starting a player who mainly gets the ball, back to goal, and often turns it over in the process.

He needs to be in the box for the next phase of play; the cross, the through ball and/or someone else needs to be occupying the CBs to create space for him running ONTO the ball. He's very dangerous when he gets into his stride, but he has to be facing forward. When Flemming got the ball he was much more willing to hit the channels. He just isn't a guy to play up front on his own.

[boyyanno]

There's no paradox. Foster simply isn't a footballer and shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11. Jay and Fleming would offer more. Obafemi would offer more and that's saying something!

Tell me you know nothing about football without saying you know nothing about football.

[Conroy92]

Not sure how Foster is getting bad press today.

He's an out and out striker with pace as his best attribute.
Yet we're using him in a role where he's not tearing towards teams and is dropping in to hold it up with his back towards goal.

He did a lot of the dirty stuff today. Squeezed Infront of the man to prod it sideways towards the wide players and midfielders from goal kicks and lots of long balls from the back. He's effectively playing the Barnes roll while being a fast pacey striker.

We will never see the best of him like this. And I don't even think he did badly today.

[boatshed bill]

There's no paradox. Foster simply isn't a footballer and shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11. Jay and Fleming would offer more. Obafemi would offer more and that's saying something!

You wouldn't be saying that if you'd watched Plymouth vs Sunderland.

[KlyBfc]

I agree Conroy

Watching that first hour but especially first half he had no support. The midfield pairing of Brownhill with Hannibal did not work against an organised defensive team, neither player got anywhere near him to link with him or to run past him. Then the widemen but awful loopy crosses for him to battle with two big Centre halves. He had nothing at all to work with. The pedestrian nature of our play was what was wrong.

[Conroy92]

At what point do the fans wake up and smell the coffee?

He gets all the support the likes of Amdouni never got.

Iv never seen a more non threatening striker than Foster, at least Juke got his arse in there, backed in and held it up. Foster makes the basics look incredibly difficult, like he’s playing in bowling shoes.

Next level.
He won the ball back on the edge of our penalty area a few weeks ago and ran the length of the field before slotting it in for an assist.

When he's allowed to play towards the opposition net rather than our own, he's far more effective.

At least Juke got his arse in there, backed in and held it up- you seem to be of the opinion Foster is a **** target man when maybe you might see more clearly if you realise he's not a target man being asked to play as one.

Juke, come on .

[bfcjg]

Foster was poor,but only as poor to the service to him. That said I think the club are walking on eggshells with him. Real talent in there but his head has to be right place and if they pressurise him we loose a real asset.

[Goalposts]

I think ive seen enough of foster now to know he wont be 20 goal a season striker.. his first touch goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. He jumps like he has leaden boots.. he is not adept at receiving the ball with his back to goal, in fact he’s pretty awful.. at times he battle wins his duels and creates panic when he’s running onto the ball. but when he has to think it all breaks down. He can strike a ball sublimely and the next instant he hits a ballon.. It is these inconsistencies for me that tell me we will need a striker in jan.. most similar player he reminds me of is Andre grey.. just not as good.

[boyyanno]

I agree Conroy

Watching that first hour but especially first half he had no support. The midfield pairing of Brownhill with Hannibal did not work against an organised defensive team, neither player got anywhere near him to link with him or to run past him. Then the widemen but awful loopy crosses for him to battle with two big Centre halves. He had nothing at all to work with. The pedestrian nature of our play was what was wrong.

This.

You can't blame Foster for not spending all game going in behind when we couldn't get the ball there. Not that that was his role today anyway.

I don't think he's best suited to that position but he worked hard, had a few good touches and scored a goal (admittedly offside but I thought Pires could have played it earlier but I was on the RH/S of the JH lower so can't say for sure).

I don't think he's as bad technically as people are making out at all- I think the word is erratic. Sometimes he takes a poor touch but equally there was a moment in the second half where he took a few fantastic touches in a small space. He's got ability I still don't think we've seen the best of him.

[KRBFC]

Next level.
He won the ball back on the edge of our penalty area a few weeks ago and ran the length of the field before slotting it in for an assist.

When he's allowed to play towards the opposition net rather than our own, he's far more effective.

At least Juke got his arse in there, backed in and held it up- you seem to be of the opinion Foster is a **** target man when maybe you might see more clearly if you realise he's not a target man being asked to play as one.

Juke, come on .

You know Foster’s not up to it when we’re talking about the first game of the season to give him any credit.

I have seen Foster play wide and central in various roles and hasn’t looked good at either. Technically he’s so far off the level he can’t even do the basics. Which is fine, use the attributes you have to cause a threat, he can’t even do that, doesn’t even look like worrying a defence.

[claretspice]

There's a very good player in Foster but I don't think we've yet set the team up to get the best out of him. He's not going to do the sort of job of dropping deep to link play, or to occupy centre halves and create space, that Barnes and Rodriguez respectively did two years ago. That's not his strength. If there's space to exploit in transition he's very effective but when the game becomes tight he needs others to help provide an alternative focal point.

Flemming helped with this today and generally, I think he will help get the best out of Foster. When Flemming came on, several times Foster drifted out towards the left, which is often where he does his best work - driving at the space outside the centre half (a little like Aubemayang at Arsenal). Flemming can operate as a sort of false 9 and Foster can then target the space behind. The balance was also better with Sarmiento, who held the ball under pressure better than Anthony, drawing the full back and creating space for Foster to drift into.

[KRBFC]

He’s been here almost 2 years yet we’re still making excuses for him like he has been here 2 minutes. Everybody else’s fault….

[claretspice]

He’s been here almost 2 years yet we’re still making excuses for him like he has been here 2 minutes. Everybody else’s fault….

Nah. No-one is saying that. As a traditional centre forward he's got limitations.

The best teams play to the strengths of their players. Fair to point those out.

[KRBFC]

Nah. No-one is saying that. As a traditional centre forward he's got limitations.

The best teams play to the strengths of their players. Fair to point those out.

You’re acting like we haven’t tried everything to get him
Involved, even VK shoehorning him in wide. Amdouni and many others in behind. The fella doesn’t run in behind you’re blaming everybody but him for that, which is just disingenuous.

[GetIntoEm]

I don't think his extra weight is helping. I like him though. Definitely should be starting

[jlup1980]

Tell me you know nothing about football without saying you know nothing about football.

Tell me you're a fan boy without telling me you're a fan boy.

Foster has been with us for a long time now and he's still only had about half a dozen decent games. Don't get me wrong, give me the Foster who started last season any day of the week, but he hasn't been that player for nearly 12 months now. He isn't consistent enough to be a starter at this level. He doesn't score regularly and doesn't link the play well enough (his dreadful first touch and inability to make simple passes were on show again today). He's the worst "first-choice" striker we've had at this level for a long time.

[claretspice]

You’re acting like we haven’t tried everything to get him
Involved, even VK shoehorning him in wide. Amdouni and many others in behind. The fella doesn’t run in behind you’re blaming everybody but him for that, which is just disingenuous.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'm observing on a player's strengths and weaknesses.

[Goliath]

There's a very good player in Foster but I don't think we've yet set the team up to get the best out of him. He's not going to do the sort of job of dropping deep to link play, or to occupy centre halves and create space, that Barnes and Rodriguez respectively did two years ago. That's not his strength. If there's space to exploit in transition he's very effective but when the game becomes tight he needs others to help provide an alternative focal point.

Flemming helped with this today and generally, I think he will help get the best out of Foster. When Flemming came on, several times Foster drifted out towards the left, which is often where he does his best work - driving at the space outside the centre half (a little like Aubemayang at Arsenal). Flemming can operate as a sort of false 9 and Foster can then target the space behind. The balance was also better with Sarmiento, who held the ball under pressure better than Anthony, drawing the full back and creating space for Foster to drift into.

He'd probably be at his best in a direct Dyche style 442 where we concede a lot of possession. He's quite similar to Andre Gray, better technically but not as threatening. If Parker can get him making the right runs then he will score goals.

Also from the replay his disallowed goal looked very tight.

[KRBFC]

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'm observing on a player's strengths and weaknesses.

Poor Lyle eh the team hasn’t played to his strengths for 2 years….. excuse the awful performances.

I’m sorry but he passed the ball out of play today when trying to pass to Koleosho who was 3 yards away, you can make all the tactical excuses in the world for him it doesn’t excuse his lack of basic football ability.

[boatshed bill]

Poor Lyle eh the team hasn’t played to his strengths for 2 years….. excuse the awful performances.

I’m sorry but he passed the ball out of play today when trying to pass to Koleosho who was 3 yards away, you can make all the tactical excuses in the world for him it doesn’t excuse his lack of basic football ability.

The bloke's had serious problems.
there is every possibility that he has medications (or has had), these affect fitness and weight. Probably best we just give him a while to see how things work out.

[boyyanno]

Tell me you're a fan boy without telling me you're a fan boy.

Foster has been with us for a long time now and he's still only had about half a dozen decent games. Don't get me wrong, give me the Foster who started last season any day of the week, but he hasn't been that player for nearly 12 months now. He isn't consistent enough to be a starter at this level. He doesn't score regularly and doesn't link the play well enough (his dreadful first touch and inability to make simple passes were on show again today). He's the worst "first-choice" striker we've had at this level for a long time.

If by "fan boy" you mean a supporter of Burnley football club and it's playing staff, and someone who opposes the opinion that "Lyle Foster is not a footballer" or whatever babyish nonsense you said then you're bang on the money mate- I'm a fan boy.

It's strange- I fact checked it and yanno what- Lyle Foster is a footballer, Premier League and international goal scorer too.

Is it any wonder half of our players wanted to **** off this summer? We talk about players being loyal and this is the **** they get after having a public mental health crisis.

[agreenwood]

Thought there were a few moments today where he showed glimpses of quality, but my overriding takeaway is that he looks overweight.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Ultimately he needs to start performing well consistently or be replaced. Same as any other player. Really hope he can do it, but if it's more of today from now onwards, then change is needed in January.

I think if we can get Flemming playing with him, then it gives him the best chance to do well.

[bfcmik]

As a member of the striker's union, albeit of a much lesser standard, I feel for Lyle, BUT if he can't do the job he is well paid for unless the team is set up specifically to his strengths then he shouldn't be picked. At every level of football I played, and at walking football competitive games now, I was/am expected to make myself useful whatever the personnel playing in my team. I would be expected to make space to receive the ball, be attacking the goal when crosses might be coming in, be trying to create space for others to get free on goal, and to hold up the ball and try to play colleagues in to continue the move.

Sadly, Lyle's positive contributions seem to be too little and too infrequent to warrant regular gametime. However, he is a Burnley player, and thus will receive my full support whenever selected.

[Bullabill]

The bloke's had serious problems.
there is every possibility that he has medications (or has had), these affect fitness and weight. Probably best we just give him a while to see how things work out.

Sorry, but we're not a charity team helping someone's rehabilitation. If he's not up to it he shouldn't play until he is. How would you feel if it were the pilot of your aeroplane - happy to give him a while to see whether he could land the machine OK?

[Oshkoshclaret]

I don’t know what his issues are but am pretty certain they won’t be helped by the crowd getting on his back.