Really Poor Today

[NewClaret]

I think you are forgetting some of Dyche’s early days and at various points throughout his tenure where we created nothing. Many of his victories came from being clinical by taking one of our few chances too. All is forgotten when that happens.

True enough.

[Row Z]

One player doesn't fix the obvious deficiencies in our play. And as NewClaret points out Brownhill has proven himself a very good '10' at this level.

The last 4 teams we just faced are all amongst the 8 worst defences in the league (3 are in the worst 4). They're all in the bottom half for creating attacking chances. We scored 2 goals from open play in those 4 games, and they were shots from outside the area. They were not teams for us to be so fearful of that we would need to shut up shop and hope to nick a winner. And I don't think that was the plan, Parker just hasn't been able to implement a system that creates chances. I'm honestly not sure which is the more concerning explanation.

So yes, we may he 3rd now. But we're not creating chances, let alone scoring goals, against some of the statistically worst teams in the league. It's not sustainable.

Laughable how we are sat third in the table, 3 clean sheets on the bounce, have looked solid at the back all season, have had to deal with another complete squad overhaul in August (never mind in the off season) and yet some fans are hysterical.

A Preston supporting friend found it very amusing that they are 19th and loving it under Heckingbottom, yet we are booing the team off at home when we were sat 2nd.

Yes everyone wants us to create more, but you also forget that 20+ teams in this league would be delighted with a point against us and are quite happy to sit back and run the clock down to earn it. It’s obvious we’ve lost some attacking quality in the squad and we need some of the creative players back fit.

[Vegas Claret]

Yes everyone wants us to create more, but you also forget that 20+ teams in this league would be delighted with a point against us and are quite happy to sit back and run the clock down to earn it. It’s obvious we’ve lost some attacking quality in the squad and we need some of the creative players back fit.

PNE played some really good stuff first half, they did the opposite of sitting back to my surprise. We have a lot of improving to do and hopefully SP can figure it out - it's pretty unanimous that we all want him to succeed.

[NewClaret]

…

Good post.

It’s amazing how much of our good attacking play this season has involved Pires in some role. He’s overlapped, he’s run through, he’s played some great through balls to set up goals. Then sometimes he looks like he’s just been passed a ball for the first time aged 23 My takeaway is we need to get him involved more and we need a right sided version ASAP in January.

I do think we need patterns and I’ve started to see some emerge as you describe. I do like it when you can see a pattern learned on the training ground comes off. Watching Kompany’s was about my only pleasure last year, but I think sometimes there’s just some things that are the basics of playing football.

For example, how many times does Koleosho or Anthony run in to trouble when they’ve doubled or trebbled up on him? Now I’m no tactical genius but if I see two or three men inside, I’d go outside because then I only have to take one on and my worst case scenario is a corner/throw in if my cross is blocked.

Likewise, why don’t we play balls in to space in front of our wingers? Or, in the last 15 minutes, having phot nowhere with patient build up all game, put all our FK’s in the box and try and nab something off a second ball? Test the defence in a different way.

I suppose what I’m saying is that I hope it’s not as complex to fix as you make out. I hope some of it is as simple as telling the wingers to go outside more, telling the midfielders to play it in to space and working on set pieces. They seem basics, really.

[Row Z]

PNE played some really good stuff first half, they did the opposite of sitting back to my surprise. We have a lot of improving to do and hopefully SP can figure it out - it's pretty unanimous that we all want him to succeed.

Agree they looked good going forward, but they sat in with a 5 at the back out of possession and that stifled us. I thought we played round their high press pretty well.

Plymouth the same on Tuesday night, they looked good on the ball and sat back without it which we struggled to create against.

I think we were all slightly spoilt with the season two years ago where VK’s system was so potent against the low block. We had players popping up all over the pitch and it was impossible for teams to contain.

[NewClaret]

Agree they looked good going forward, but they sat in with a 5 at the back out of possession and that stifled us. I thought we played round their high press pretty well.

Plymouth the same on Tuesday night, they looked good on the ball and sat back without it which we struggled to create against.

I think we were all slightly spoilt with the season two years ago where VK’s system was so potent against the low block. We had players popping up all over the pitch and it was impossible for teams to contain.

I agree about our playing out of their press. Overall I think our football has been miles better over the last 3 games.

Not sure if this is the quality of the opposition but two things I’ve seen improve since Leeds is our building from the back and the speed of the passing. I think they’ve been better.

I’m not sure VKs teams were always good at breaking the low block. He got off to a slow start too. It’d be well worthwhile Parker spending the break watching some videos of that season though to pick up on the methods he used and presumably Jackson knows.

[Vegas Claret]

Agree they looked good going forward, but they sat in with a 5 at the back out of possession and that stifled us. I thought we played round their high press pretty well.

Plymouth the same on Tuesday night, they looked good on the ball and sat back without it which we struggled to create against.

I think we were all slightly spoilt with the season two years ago where VK’s system was so potent against the low block. We had players popping up all over the pitch and it was impossible for teams to contain.

I'd like us to have some shots from around the edge of the area because we aren't giving the opposition enough to think about. Our patterns/triangles are non existent for large parts - nothing will ever move quicker than the ball so move the bloody thing !

[NewClaret]

I'd like us to have some shots from around the edge of the area because we aren't giving the opposition enough to think about. Our patterns/triangles are non existent for large parts - nothing will ever move quicker than the ball so move the bloody thing !

Love that saying.

It’s for that reason I can’t work out why we don’t play passes in front of the wingers for them to run on to.

[NewClaret]

PNE played some really good stuff first half, they did the opposite of sitting back to my surprise. We have a lot of improving to do and hopefully SP can figure it out - it's pretty unanimous that we all want him to succeed.

I agree, I’m desperate for him to succeed. For us but also for him because I think he comes across as a really nice guy.

For that reason I hope he sorts it over this two weeks or I feel otherwise he might start to lose the fans. Everyone gets a bit of a break initially but that will wear off.

Personally it doesn’t have to be hugely complex patterns, just passes in to space, wingers taking their men on outside as much as cutting in, full backs supporting and lots more balls in to the box/shots to ask proper questions of the keeper and defence.

Pretty simple stuff you can instil in a fortnight while the more intricate stuff is worked through.

As RV says though, hopefully his past record suggests he’s capable of getting us creating more and with a solid base at the back we’d then take some beating.

[ClaretPete001]

I think you start with the facts and work forward from there. VK started with a PL squad, which crashed and burned in the PL because 7/8 of them were unlikely to play for us after winning the Championship: too old in some cases and too good in others. Bundesliga medals and Champions league final appearances proved the point. Tella and Maatsen alone would transform this team into something more formidable.

We now have a decent Championship squad not a PL one but one that is young, hard working and has some real characters and grafters amongst it.

So, one problem solved but another created. The problem now is we have a team that is inexperienced and the end product isn't there. Kolosheo is exciting but nowhere near Odobert in terms of being the finished product and hasn't really produced anything like the quality of ball required since he arrived. Pires is erratic; Hannibal wanders all over the pitch and Foster(who has only just turned 24) is not winning enough individual battles and so on and so forth.

In addition, we have injuries to a number of the more creative players. What else would anyone else have done on Saturday? There is no point listing a team half of whom are injured and not available. If Berge was in this team we would be winning every game because he has exactly what we need the ability to carry the ball in their half.

The problem caused by the injuries is that we have 3 central midfielders who are two defensive and two full backs that are no where near the quality of Vitinho and Maatsen. Foster is isolated and we are lacking the creativity to beat the low block.

On the upside Parker is doing ok in the sense we are up there, have a solid base and look hard to beat but on the flip side he looks a little a little risk averse.

That is where we are. Not at the end of the universe but not entirely convinced either...!

[ClaretPete001]

I'd like us to have some shots from around the edge of the area because we aren't giving the opposition enough to think about. Our patterns/triangles are non existent for large parts - nothing will ever move quicker than the ball so move the bloody thing !

The problem is that when faced with a low block there is no space to pass and the wingers are facing their full back and winger. I thought Robbie Brady was excellent on Saturday btw.

The problem lies with the full backs and the midfield three not getting forward enough or having the quality/type of game to make those surgical passes and to support the front players.

Without the likes of Ramsay, Flemming etc. it's a bit of a challenge.

[boatshed bill]

I think you start with the facts and work forward from there. VK started with a PL squad, which crashed and burned in the PL because 7/8 of them were unlikely to play for us after winning the Championship: too old in some cases and too good in others. Bundesliga medals and Champions league final appearances proved the point. Tella and Maatsen alone would transform this team into something more formidable.

We now have a decent Championship squad not a PL one but one that is young, hard working and has some real characters and grafters amongst it.



That is where we are. Not at the end of the universe but not entirely convinced either...!

Our starting 11 vs Preston had 272 PL appearances between them.
Not sure that counts as inexperienced, TBH.

[ClaretPete001]

272 divided by 11 is 24 games Bill. I'm guessing crusty old sea dogs are better navigating by the stars than making points with statistics.

[boatshed bill]

272 divided by 11 is 24 games Bill. I'm guessing crusty old sea dogs are better navigating by the stars than making points with statistics.

I wonder how that compares with the rest of the top 6.
No big deal, just interested.

[ClaretPete001]

I wonder how that compares with the rest of the top 6.
No big deal, just interested.

Dunno but Foster is 24, Kolosheo 20, Anthony 24, Egan Riley 21, Sarmiento 22, Esteve 22, Pires 23, Hannibal 21, Trafford 21.

Brownhill, Roberts and Cullen are older.

It's hard to say because although a lot of sites quote squad ages they don't usually cite the average age of the first 11. In terms of squads (30 or so players) we are similar to a number of the teams around us but like I say it would be hard work to check the actual playing 11.

[boatshed bill]

Dunno but Foster is 24, Kolosheo 20, Anthony 24, Egan Riley 21, Sarmiento 22, Esteve 22, Pires 23, Hannibal 21, Trafford 21.

Brownhill, Roberts and Cullen are older.

It's hard to say because although a lot of sites quote squad ages they don't usually cite the average age of the first 11. In terms of squads (30 or so players) we are similar to a number of the teams around us but like I say it would be hard work to check the actual playing 11.

Well, as far as I can see, Preston totalled 167 appearances, 160 were Robbie Brady.

[ClaretPete001]

Well, as far as I can see, Preston totalled 167 appearances, 160 were Robbie Brady.

And Robbie Brady's quality stood out but it was only one game. Luton will no doubt have a lot of PL appearances but they are fourth from bottom.

Equally, Kolosheo and Trafford would have more PL appearances than the whole Preston team but no one would argue they are experienced or the final product.

If this team had a Cork and Cullen double pivot plus Brownhill pushing forward we would be winning every game whether it be as swash buckling as VK or Parker's more pragmatic style. Better players win games most of the time...!

[Vegas Claret]

The problem is that when faced with a low block there is no space to pass and the wingers are facing their full back and winger.

Hence the get some shots in comment, need to drag the CB's out and create gaps. We are too predictable atm but I'm sure it will come. Brady was good yes

[Vegas Claret]

I agree, I’m desperate for him to succeed. For us but also for him because I think he comes across as a really nice guy.

For that reason I hope he sorts it over this two weeks or I feel otherwise he might start to lose the fans. Everyone gets a bit of a break initially but that will wear off.

Personally it doesn’t have to be hugely complex patterns, just passes in to space, wingers taking their men on outside as much as cutting in, full backs supporting and lots more balls in to the box/shots to ask proper questions of the keeper and defence.

Pretty simple stuff you can instil in a fortnight while the more intricate stuff is worked through.

As RV says though, hopefully his past record suggests he’s capable of getting us creating more and with a solid base at the back we’d then take some beating.

I'm sure I read on here that Parker's Bourneouth team had a higher XG than VK's Burnley side (not that I like XG tbh). Parker is no mug, I'm sure he will get it right.

[Vegas Claret]

Love that saying.

It’s for that reason I can’t work out why we don’t play passes in front of the wingers for them to run on to.

exactly

[quoonbeatz]

You keep the fact that you are an academic well hidden

Why advertise? Apologies, I’ll make it more obvious for you in future

[CoolClaret]

I don’t see why so much fuss is being made of people calling out the obvious deficiencies in our performances? We’ve had a season last year of the most toxic comments about Kompany, Trafford, etc and all of a sudden it’s like everyone has to be happy with every single aspect of our performances which is just completely unrealistic.

I’m not convinced on your point re: the 10. Flemming might be the longer term plan for that role but Browny is a perfectly able 10 at this level and our current top scorer. Parker has the players at his disposal to be beating teams that we’ve come across in the last three games quite easily but he’s not managing it. Yet.

Last season was a completely different beast - it wasn't building on what we had done the season prior, and it was pretty clear from the outset that the plan was rotten and the entire season was a (very expensive) complete waste of time... Evidenced with the fact that barely any of those signings are still playing for the club. Not to mention that they could plan for the PL since what, March time?

One player doesn't fix the obvious deficiencies in our play. And as NewClaret points out Brownhill has proven himself a very good '10' at this level.

Brownhill isn't a creative 10, he played a slightly different role there under VK compared with a more traditional '10' where lots of our creativity was coming from fullback, centre half and goalkeeper. Include left wing in that as well. All players in those respective positions far better footballers with the ball at their feet compared to what we have now.

SP (as of now) clearly has more of a structured system and needs a genuine attacking midfielder in there to provide the creativity that we so desperately need.

I’m surprised at that, especially as I remember Kompany making 20-odd chances a game in the premier league when we were getting battered, but it’s quite heartening to hear.

We never, ever made 20 odd 'chances' a game and even if we did, it wouldn't matter because we'd have been conceding 30+ chances the other way.

[NewClaret]

Last season was a completely different beast - it wasn't building on what we had done the season prior, and it was pretty clear from the outset that the plan was rotten and the entire season was a (very expensive) complete waste of time... Evidenced with the fact that barely any of those signings are still playing for the club. Not to mention that they could plan for the PL since what, March time?

We never, ever made 20 odd 'chances' a game and even if we did, it wouldn't matter because we'd have been conceding 30+ chances the other way.

On your two points to me:

No arguments about last season, although the money recovered from just a few of the players bought goes some way to mitigate the expense, with 4/5 real saleable assets to go from that season it could still end up profitable.

On chances, I’m not sure of the technical definition but I am assuming you have to create a chance to have a shot? Last 5 games of the season we had:

Forest - 20
Spurs - 7
Newcastle - 17
United - 16
Sheff U - 16

Also had 18 vs Chelsea and 17 vs Brentford.

If you also include chances missed (those where we did not get a shot away) then I’m sure we were 20+ in many games. I read that somewhere, anyway.

As you say, pointless creating a lot of chances when also conceding the same. Part of our issue was that we were engaged in games of basketball at times, but the reality is that we’re now playing far lower opposition, creating far less and generally the football is less entertaining.

For some, they won’t enjoy that or take much pleasure in a clean sheet because they want to be entertained. I think that’s a valid and understandable viewpoint, although so is the expectation that Parker gets more time to sort it.

FWIW, and the frustration for me, is I don’t think we’re that far off and some real basic tweaks would provide the answers.

[Fizzy]

I had a round trip of over 500 miles for that.

[Big Vinny K]

Burnley making 20 odd chances a game last season under VK is one of the funniest things I have seen on this board in a good while

Was it all a big dream and we qualified for Europe ?
Has VK just turned up in the shower like Bobby Ewing ?

The blind loyalty to VK is admirable

[agreenwood]

Not really interested in what came before.

We’ve got one of the largest budgets in the division, but have scored just 5 goals in our last 8 matches. It needs to improve drastically.

Not just the fans saying either. Esteve said as much after the game on Saturday.

[jlup1980]

FWIW, and the frustration for me, is I don’t think we’re that far off and some real basic tweaks would provide the answers.

I agree with this, and for me the most basic tweak would be changing our mindset from "sideways and backwards" to "forward passing". We should be looking to get the ball forward at all times. Clearly it's not always possible, and that's when you go sideways or backwards, but too many players are taking the easy option at the moment and not looking to push us up the pitch in the first instance.

[NewClaret]

Not really interested in what came before.

We’ve got one of the largest budgets in the division, but have scored just 5 goals in our last 8 matches. It needs to improve drastically.

Not just the fans saying either. Esteve said as much after the game on Saturday.

Agree. And Parker is saying it too, to be fair to him.

[NewClaret]

I agree with this, and for me the most basic tweak would be changing our mindset from "sideways and backwards" to "forward passing". We should be looking to get the ball forward at all times. Clearly it's not always possible, and that's when you go sideways or backwards, but too many players are taking the easy option at the moment and not looking to push us up the pitch in the first instance.

That’s it.

When people say it needs more time or it needs the players to gel, I fear we’re over complicating it somewhat.

My advice to players at would be:

- be positive
- pass quickly, in to space
- get at the ball higher up the pitch & win corners, throws, whatever puts them under pressure (a scrappy one’ll do)
- every corner/FK in the box please & win the seconds until we’re ahead and maybe then we have more licence
- and to wingers: stop cutting inside when double marked, go outside, get crosses in across the box.

Tbh these are the sort of thing I’d expect to be able to sort out at HT, not needing a load of training sessions to resolve.

My slight concern here being that we overcomplicate things coming up with styles of play and complex patterns to break teams down when really we just need to be more direct and progressive more often. Prioritising attacking play and getting the ball in the box/nearer the goal more often.

Credit where it’s due though, despite not scoring I have seen what I consider to be improvements in last two games: faster football and Pires overlapping albeit infrequently.

[Big Vinny K]

Hopefully SP logs into this board for some advice during the international break.
My advice would be score more goals than the opposition and we won’t go far wrong.
The crowd will do their bit by singing that old favourite “ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK”

[CoolClaret]

On your two points to me:

No arguments about last season, although the money recovered from just a few of the players bought goes some way to mitigate the expense, with 4/5 real saleable assets to go from that season it could still end up profitable.

The profit has helped a tad with the reduced revenue streams, but it was still on borrowed money, so just servicing debts with a small portion reinvested.

The problem being that they really had a a week / week and half to then get deals over the line for the new lot which really is a big ask.

On chances, I’m not sure of the technical definition but I am assuming you have to create a chance to have a shot? Last 5 games of the season we had:

Forest - 20
Spurs - 7
Newcastle - 17
United - 16
Sheff U - 16

Also had 18 vs Chelsea and 17 vs Brentford.

If you also include chances missed (those where we did not get a shot away) then I’m sure we were 20+ in many games. I read that somewhere, anyway.

As you say, pointless creating a lot of chances when also conceding the same. Part of our issue was that we were engaged in games of basketball at times, but the reality is that we’re now playing far lower opposition, creating far less and generally the football is less entertaining.

For some, they won’t enjoy that or take much pleasure in a clean sheet because they want to be entertained. I think that’s a valid and understandable viewpoint, although so is the expectation that Parker gets more time to sort it.

FWIW, and the frustration for me, is I don’t think we’re that far off and some real basic tweaks would provide the answers.

Yeah not too about your definition of chances here NC, certainly being quite liberal with it... We'd have had to have been the unluckiest team in football history if we created 20 chances a game and only have 5 wins all season...

[NewClaret]

The profit has helped a tad with the reduced revenue streams, but it was still on borrowed money, so just servicing debts with a small portion reinvested.

The problem being that they really had a a week / week and half to then get deals over the line for the new lot which really is a big ask.

Yeah not too about your definition of chances here NC, certainly being quite liberal with it... We'd have had to have been the unluckiest team in football history if we created 20 chances a game and only have 5 wins all season...

My point was that we spent £100m and got it back plus some this summer. So yes it was with borrowed money, but technically now covered by sales, plus we still have players to sell from that cohort. Technically we’ll end up profiting, I imagine, so I’m not sure the plan was an expensive mistake. It definitely was a mistake. One Ipswich and Southampton are now repeating.

I’m not really being liberal with it. The actual definitions after a quick google are all shots (on or off target) - what I have posted - plus key passes that could reasonably have been expected to lead to a goal. So you could say I’ve been conservative

Either way, what there is pretty much no doubting is that we are far less creative than we were at a higher level. Linking back to the above point about style, I think we could all accept that in the Premier League if it meant conceding less and staying in games longer. I don’t think fans, or Pace, will accept it in the Championship.

There’s no talk of 3 year plans anymore. Everyone is talking about an immediate return - Pace, Parker, Esteve. It’s a new dynamic now so the lack of chances needs addressing very quickly from Parker’s perspective. I’d start by looking what Kompany got right because he definitely cracked this level.

[RVclaret]

Using shots for chance creation isn’t really helpful. If a team has 20 pot shots from 30 yards and another team has 5 shots in the game but all open net tap ins or one on ones, who had the better chances? This context is one of the key uses of xG which is what I’m referring to when I say chance creation was higher - Kompany’s Burnley averaged 1.45 p/90 in the Champ, 1.08 in the PL and Parker’s Bournemouth was 1.65 in the Champ fyi.

[NewClaret]

Using shots for chance creation isn’t really helpful. If a team has 20 pot shots from 30 yards and another team has 5 shots in the game but all open net tap ins or one on ones, who had the better chances? This context is one of the key uses of xG which is what I’m referring to when I say chance creation was higher - Kompany’s Burnley averaged 1.45 p/90 in the Champ, 1.08 in the PL and Parker’s Bournemouth was 1.65 in the Champ fyi.

To be honest, all stats are irrelevant apart from the scoreline.

I fully accept you could have 50 attempts against a team you’ve conceded two goals to and are restricting you to pot shots.

In some ways, that’s how we look to be playing, like we’re ahead and just looking to dominate the ball.

why I’d say it’s relevant to this discussion is, a shot in my mind means you’ve got close enough to goal to take one. We all know we didn’t take pot shots outside the box under Kompany… and Berge never did! The shooting was s*** but that’s another issue.

We’re just not doing that at the moment, but Parker’s record offers some hope we will.

[Goliath]

My point was that we spent £100m and got it back plus some this summer. So yes it was with borrowed money, but technically now covered by sales, plus we still have players to sell from that cohort. Technically we’ll end up profiting, I imagine, so I’m not sure the plan was an expensive mistake. It definitely was a mistake. One Ipswich and Southampton are now repeating.

I’m not really being liberal with it. The actual definitions after a quick google are all shots (on or off target) - what I have posted - plus key passes that could reasonably have been expected to lead to a goal. So you could say I’ve been conservative

Either way, what there is pretty much no doubting is that we are far less creative than we were at a higher level. Linking back to the above point about style, I think we could all accept that in the Premier League if it meant conceding less and staying in games longer. I don’t think fans, or Pace, will accept it in the Championship.

There’s no talk of 3 year plans anymore. Everyone is talking about an immediate return - Pace, Parker, Esteve. It’s a new dynamic now so the lack of chances needs addressing very quickly from Parker’s perspective. I’d start by looking what Kompany got right because he definitely cracked this level.

Kompany signed a better quality player and gave them patterns which allowed us to score goals even against a low block

[ClaretPete001]

Kompany signed a better quality player and gave them patterns which allowed us to score goals even against a low block

He didn't sign them he inherited 5 or 6 good quality PL players and loaned four top flight players we could not afford.

Hence why we are on our third rebuild in 3 years.

[NewClaret]

He didn't sign them he inherited 5 or 6 good quality PL players and loaned four top flight players we could not afford.

Hence why we are on our third rebuild in 3 years.

Good point, this. I was well against loans in summer but maybe feeling a bit differently now!

[boatshed bill]

He didn't sign them he inherited 5 or 6 good quality PL players and loaned four top flight players we could not afford.

Hence why we are on our third rebuild in 3 years.

Inherited: Roberts, Lowton, Peacock-Farrell, Taylor, Cork, Brownhill Barnes, Rodriguez, Gudmondsson, plus Costello and Dodgson from the U21s.
Wouldn't have done much without the quality loans, plus we did sign a few good players.

[Goliath]

He didn't sign them he inherited 5 or 6 good quality PL players and loaned four top flight players we could not afford.

Hence why we are on our third rebuild in 3 years.

A loan is still a signing. This wasn't a discussion about long term benefits. Just a direct comparison, we have signed a much lower standard of players this time around and it's showing.

[agreenwood]

Parker has a job to do on confidence and bravery and he's got to push players to get into the box. He also has to question personnel - is Anthony our best option off the left, and if he wants his centre forward in the sort of position Foster was in (he's the one player who can't get into the box because he's dropped off too deep) then will that get the best out of Foster? The next fortnight gives him time to work on those patterns around the box but also to ponder. You can't butcher opportunities as good as that.

I think this is my slight fear so far. I'm not sure it's necessarily about courage or individual decision making. I have a nagging feeling we do a lot of work in training on building attacks in a way that doesn't leave us exposed to a quick counter. It's why the full back so far seem reluctant to go beyond the wingers very often, which is particularly odd given the preference for the wingers to come inside and free up so much space down the wing.

[LaLigaClaret]

So lets be absolutely honest. The game against PNE was not just really poor it was absolutely Pi**poor. Yes I know we are third and only a point below the leaders but if we continue on in the same way we played in this game we will soon be sliding down the table. Yes, yes we have injuries, yes, yes they are a young side but I read we now have an expected goals ratio which places us 24th out of 24 in the division. Currently we are expected to create less goal scoring opportunities even lower than Portsmouth, Cardiff at al.

From the very first whistle today we looked like a team that was happy to settle for a point. There was no ambition, no desire, and absolute zero creativity. One sloppy pass after another, we never looked like scoring all day long which is becoming a regular situation at the moment. Koleosho, Sarmiento and Anthory are all talented players but their final pass or cross is absolutely woeful. I feel so sorry for Lyle Foster who is being called out as a scapegoat but the simple truth is , he is completely isolated, has zero support and zero service. I just can't see what his role is supposed to be and I honestly believe both he and SP don't know it either. There is a player in there but its never going to come out using him they way he is being used at the moment. Lyle Foster is not Ashley Barnes, his attributes are not being used in a way which gives him the chance to contribute goals.

Considering PNE had let in 10 goals in their 3 previous away games Burnley's failure to trouble the goalkeeper was pathetic. SP is alleged to have said that if anyone thinks Burnley are going to sling in lots of crosses is sadly mistaken. I suggest he needs to rethink that because passing sideways, backwards and sideways in a totally predictable way until the ball is given away through a sloppy pass or having the ball stolen off a player is not exactly threatening much.

Frankly teams have already compltely sussed us out and we appear totally clueless on a plan B. I fear lots more draws instead of wins and that will wreck any chance of automatic promotion. Yes we should have had a penalty but PNE were very unlucky in that their "goal" was onside and not offside so we got away with one today. To think we could have gone top by winning but in all honestly the players didn't seem at all bothered about trying to win. We need our long term injured back as soon as possible but we also need a change in tactics, a change in formation and some changes change in the players being used at the moment. We can't afford many more displays like the last 2 or 3 games which were supposely against less strong teams. We are not going to continually away with winning games for the rest of this season with an odd goal here and there from different players if our forwards are not scoring regularly, its too much to ask to do this successfully for the whole season.

[Mattster]

Kompany’s Burnley averaged 1.45 p/90 in the Champ, 1.08 in the PL and Parker’s Bournemouth was 1.65 in the Champ fyi.

And Parker's Burnley is currently at 0.91

[RVclaret]

And Parker's Burnley is currently at 0.91

Correct - nowhere near good enough if it remains the same. But also worth noting the context of 1. A small sample 2. The mid-season turmoil. Plenty of scope for improvement on that front though, right?

[morninbob]

I'm going to use Anthony's first half shot which was beaten away to reflect both what we are trying to do (because it worked well on that occasion) but also why it's not yet proving effective.

- the move gets going when Cullen plays a 30 yard square pass to Pires, who is in a left half position 20 yards in field, 10 yards inside the attacking half, but I think we'd had good possession in deep areas before that and it allows us to get the ball to Pires in space (similar to our goal against Blackburn where the move again gathered pace with Pires after patient build up).

- when Pires gets the ball we're in a really good set up. Anthony is wide left ready to run inside behind the wing back. Koleosho is unmarked, holding wide right. Hannibal is our furthest man forwards, just goalside of the right centre half and Brownhill is breaking forwards into a central area; Foster meanwhile has dropped off and is unmarked in a pocket of space in a "10" position. Pires has various passes on as a result - a short pass into Foster who can turn and drive or pass; long to Koleosho, or an attempt to thread in one of the runners. He ultimately plays the right pass to Anthony and it is a peach: it leaves him goalside just inside the box.

All of that is excellent. Pires' ability to play that sort of ball is a huge asset and we have made the pitch big, and have plenty of free men. If this is the plan, it's a good one and "Parkerball" has lots going for it. I think it's a very similar set up to what Kompany would aim for (although perhaps we'd squeeze up a bit).

But - from here I think its a good study in why we aren't capitalising. As Anthony gets the ball, he has the chance to drive towards goal on his left foot, to either shoot (from a good angle perhaps from 10 yards out), win a penalty by getting his body across the defender, or square it. Hannibal should be exploiting the fact he was goalside in the right channel to get into a position for a tap in should Anthony square ball. But firstly, Hannibal makes a weird decision to stop running and if anything backs away from the box. Secondly Anthony shies away from going outside and cuts inside towards traffic - he has an option to play in Brownhill who is unmarked, but ends up taking the safest option- getting a fairly routine shot away that is comfortably saved. Koleosho meanwhile is a bit slow to get into the box on the far side.

We should end up with at least 2 inside the box other than Anthony, and should end up with a much clearer chance - just as Portsmouth did to score from a fairly similar situation. But poor decision making, a lack of confidence (I'm sure that's why Anthony cut inside) and a lack of bravery or instinct to get into the box means we end up only with a half chance. Even then had Hannibal got into the box the rebound might very well have fallen to him.

Parker has a job to do on confidence and bravery and he's got to push players to get into the box. He also has to question personnel - is Anthony our best option off the left, and if he wants his centre forward in the sort of position Foster was in (he's the one player who can't get into the box because he's dropped off too deep) then will that get the best out of Foster? The next fortnight gives him time to work on those patterns around the box but also to ponder. You can't butcher opportunities as good as that.

Foster will be away again, as will 8 others.

[claretspice]

Good post.

It’s amazing how much of our good attacking play this season has involved Pires in some role. He’s overlapped, he’s run through, he’s played some great through balls to set up goals. Then sometimes he looks like he’s just been passed a ball for the first time aged 23 My takeaway is we need to get him involved more and we need a right sided version ASAP in January.

I do think we need patterns and I’ve started to see some emerge as you describe. I do like it when you can see a pattern learned on the training ground comes off. Watching Kompany’s was about my only pleasure last year, but I think sometimes there’s just some things that are the basics of playing football.

For example, how many times does Koleosho or Anthony run in to trouble when they’ve doubled or trebbled up on him? Now I’m no tactical genius but if I see two or three men inside, I’d go outside because then I only have to take one on and my worst case scenario is a corner/throw in if my cross is blocked.

Likewise, why don’t we play balls in to space in front of our wingers? Or, in the last 15 minutes, having phot nowhere with patient build up all game, put all our FK’s in the box and try and nab something off a second ball? Test the defence in a different way.

I suppose what I’m saying is that I hope it’s not as complex to fix as you make out. I hope some of it is as simple as telling the wingers to go outside more, telling the midfielders to play it in to space and working on set pieces. They seem basics, really.

I agree on Pires - he's very quickly become integral to us as an attacking force. But I don't think we need another that is in the same mould. I think against a team like Preston we're badly missing a full back like Vitinho on the opposite side - someone with real accelaration to carry the ball from deep or join an attack at deep to exploit gaps. Roberts and Pires aren't slow, but they're not explosive athletes like Vitinho and Maatsen were and I don't think we played many, if any, games in 2022/23 without one or other of those two in the side.

I think the point of my post last night though was to demonstrate that I don't think the basic way we're trying to play has too much wrong with it. The set up for that chance does demonstrate some positional flexibility - Pires has stepped into an orthodox holding midfield position, Foster has dropped deep and Hannibal is basically in a centre forward position with Brownhill making a third man run. I'm not sure all the pegs are in the right holes because Foster doesn't look comfortable dropping in like that and Hannibal doesn't seem to have the instinct to get into the box as he needed to in that instance, but there's plenty of rotation on show in the build up. Clearly we lack a little bit of guile on the pitch yet because the front 5 is a bit heavy on runners and light on craftsmanship, and adding that will help, but basically if we can get into the sort of attacking shape we found ourselves in when Pires delivered that ball we'll create more than enough chances provided that we are willing to commit to getting players into the box and that once we get there, players have the confidence and belief to be a bit more direct in attacking the goal. With confidence comes the composure and belief that was lacking in that chance and others - the confidence to play a calm pass to the free man was missing more than once.

I think our more fundamental issue is how we set those positions up - we are struggling to beat the press. I think that's for a few reasons - the most obvious is that we don't make the pitch big enough often enough but I also think we need to give Cullen the sort of licence to drop into a back 3 that Kompany gave him. I'm hopeful that will come with time and work on the training ground, but the lack of real pace from full back is going to be a limitation I fear. I think Parker's got to encourage us to take more risks in the way we play out to get round a press. If you pass cautiously without making the pitch big, then most teams at this level will combat that.

[Mattster]

Correct - nowhere near good enough if it remains the same. But also worth noting the context of 1. A small sample 2. The mid-season turmoil. Plenty of scope for improvement on that front though, right?

I feel like talking about small samples is bait coming from you so I'm not going to bite. You know I don't buy into the turmoil excuse but even if I did, 6 weeks later and if anything, we've taken steps back.

And well, yes, there's scope for improvement. But chance creation could hardly get much worse, could it?

[ClaretPete001]

A loan is still a signing. This wasn't a discussion about long term benefits. Just a direct comparison, we have signed a much lower standard of players this time around and it's showing.

Because that is what we can afford and I guess the board decided that creating a base that can be taken into the PL is better than yet another re-build.

I'm not sure this is SPs fault.

[Goliath]

Because that is what we can afford and I guess the board decided that creating a base that can be taken into the PL is better than yet another re-build.

I'm not sure this is SPs fault.

Maybe but it probably also displays a lack of pulling power with Parker compared to Kompany. I also wonder if that's why so many rumoured names fell by the wayside in the managerial hunt, as they realised we wouldn't have much to play with and we'd be selling half of the squad.

[ClaretPete001]

Inherited: Roberts, Lowton, Peacock-Farrell, Taylor, Cork, Brownhill Barnes, Rodriguez, Gudmondsson, plus Costello and Dodgson from the U21s.
Wouldn't have done much without the quality loans, plus we did sign a few good players.

Roberts, Taylor, Cork, Brownhill Barnes, Rodriguez, and Gudmondsson is over half a PL team. And six of them made quite a number of appearances in the PL.

In fact, apart from Cork all clocked up a lot more appearances than Zaroury, Benson, Twine et al. Depending which stats you use, only Vitinho managed more appearances than JBG and Charlie Taylor and no player signed in the Championship winning season made more appearances than Brownhill.

Cullen managed a couple more than Jay Rod. So, the PL players VK inherited appeared more in the PL than the ones he signed.

Four of the six made more than 20 appearances in the PL while Roberts managed 14 and was then sent on loan.

Of all the players we signed in the Championship only Foster, Cullen and Vitinho managed 20 plus appearances.

Fact is, VK didn't rate his own signings.

[ClaretPete001]

Maybe but it probably also displays a lack of pulling power with Parker compared to Kompany. I also wonder if that's why so many rumoured names fell by the wayside in the managerial hunt, as they realised we wouldn't have much to play with and we'd be selling half of the squad.

I think that is conjecture. As I explain above - VK didn't rate his own Championship signings for the most part....!