Last Night's Q&A with the chairman and Mat Williams

[Rileybobs]

Nobody, but the poster who was there indicated it was.

Have a read of the thread.

The OP said that the agents of 4 players said they wouldn't be playing again after the Spurs game, when our relegation was confirmed. I don't think anyone has stated that the 4 players were actually involved in that particular match, although they may well have been. And even if those players did play again, that doesn't mean that Williams fabricated or even embellished that scenario.

[randomclaret2]

Did Mr Pace have anything to say ?

[Gp8419]

At first I liked Matt Williams, but I struggle to believe a word he says anymore.
He is very loose with words and often strays from truth.

He says 4 players agents told him after the spurs game, his clients won't play for the club again.
There wasn't 4 changes for the team against Forest.

He didn’t say they started against spurs though ???

[MrTopTier]

I'm not asking you to take my stance. You should choose for yourself.

I just think he's a bit of a story teller and goes off piste with the truth.

That’s fair enough, would doubt he would do the jobs he has done for the length of time he has done them for if he was full of BS. I for one am happy that he is part of the club and for the straight up talking.

[beddie]

Of course Mr Pace and Mr Williams could have decided well before the Q&A exactly what was to be said even if it wasn’t 100% correct, that way it has the advantage of making the Club look squeaky clean.

[MrTopTier]

Celtic maybe?

There was a bid from Ipswich.
A Brentford bid significantly lower.
Interest from Wolves and potentially Palace if Guehi had moved to Newcastle.

[ClaretPete001]

Yeah, feels like we've swung from one extreme to the other. Dyche was adamant about researching character, almost above anything else and it did serve us well although maybe restricted our 'market' at times.

Under VK and his team, we seem to have gone for a purely data model. You do unearth some talent but I can't believe we knew too much about the character of lads playing 2nd division football in France or wherever. Every now and again you will strike gold with someone like Steve, who's both ridiculously good and a model pro. Costly when it goes wrong, mind.

If you mean E-Steve - he played over 60 times for Montpellier. And although struggling this season they've been a solid Ligue 1 side for a while. He's also a French Under 21 player. I think Montpellier had to sell for financial reasons but they weren't happy about it.

You can't compare him to Hountondji who was on loan from one Ligue 2 club to another one.

But I agree how do you judge a player who was playing in Ligue 3 a season or so ago and expect him to potentially lead the line of a side expecting a Championship winning season as many expect him to do on Saturday?

[The Shire Claret]

The main question is - Where does Dale Stephens fall into any of this ?

[randomclaret2]

There was a bid from Ipswich.
A Brentford bid significantly lower.
Interest from Wolves and potentially Palace if Guehi had moved to Newcastle.

The Scottish press at the time were suggesting Celtic were also interested

[Quickenthetempo]

I think you have disrespected Matt Williams. He speaks extremely well and is open and clear about what he says. There may be some things that he doesn't say, keeping confidences etc, but he does not make up information

That's your opinion I have mine.

Did you believe him when he said Vinny was the best thing that had ever happened to our club?

[ClaretPete001]

At first I liked Matt Williams, but I struggle to believe a word he says anymore.
He is very loose with words and often strays from truth.

He says 4 players agents told him after the spurs game, his clients won't play for the club again.
There wasn't 4 changes for the team against Forest.

There is nothing stopping four players threatening to quit and them starting the next game.

It can be true that four players threatened it but didn't carry out the threat.

But it does sound like gilding the lily apart from anything they would be in breach of their contracts.

On the balance of things it probably never happened but I guess it sums up the feeling of the club towards the players. So, I would be more likely to view it as a failure at club level as well as the individual players.

[ClaretTony]

At first I liked Matt Williams, but I struggle to believe a word he says anymore.
He is very loose with words and often strays from truth.

He says 4 players agents told him after the spurs game, his clients won't play for the club again.
There wasn't 4 changes for the team against Forest.

I can assure you that Matt is one of the good guys. Maybe his words have been taken too literally but I'm aware of some of the situations involving some who left and the way they did it, some in the right way and some very much the opposite.

A couple of my friends were invited last night.

[ecc]

Some players and agents are an absolute disgrace

And that's an understatement.

The fact clubs use agents to buy and sell players doesn't help matters.

[Row x]

That's your opinion I have mine.

Did you believe him when he said Vinny was the best thing that had ever happened to our club?

That was his opinion, lots of others had the same opinion at the time he said it

[ecc]

Couple of points

1. Just when you couldn't love Steve any more, we hear this about him. What a guy!

2. As for the players demanding to be sold after the Spurs game good riddance to all of them I say.

3. Really hope Tresor shows us what he can do.

4. The DNA of the club is built around guys like Brownhill, Cullen, Barnes, Cork etc, I feel we lost too many of our core all at once. It is good to hear we seem to have a few good characters that have joined recently.

Hi Ric-C,
Concerning your fourth point, Joe Worrall is one of them. We've got to hope he comes back soon and gets fully matchfit.

But even when not playing, he'll be a good man to have in the squad.

[Andreshotboots]

Celtic maybe?

He said 3 Premeir Clubs and I think they were well documented.

[claret wizard]

At first I liked Matt Williams, but I struggle to believe a word he says anymore.
He is very loose with words and often strays from truth.

He says 4 players agents told him after the spurs game, his clients won't play for the club again.
There wasn't 4 changes for the team against Forest.

They didn't have to have been playing to kick off. We made one change in the starting 11, Vitinho out and Amdouni in between Spurs and Forest.

I'm with you though, whilst the general story might be true, I'm not sure the details would hold well if scrutinized.

[RVclaret]

Did Mr Pace have anything to say ?

Apparently got a bit emotional when asked about him wanting to sell the club, basically saying no chance.

[JohnMcGreal]

As disappointing as it is when players dig in and force a move away from the club, we've probably been the beneficiaries of that kind of behaviour a number of times over the years when we've signed players from lower down the pecking order.

All part of the game.

[randomclaret2]

Apparently got a bit emotional when asked about him wanting to sell the club, basically saying no chance.

Cheers

[Poulton-le-Claret]

He said 3 Premeir Clubs and I think they were well documented.

Brentford, Wolves and Ipswich then I think it was. Celtic were definitely linked at one stage.

[NewClaret]

I'm not asking you to take my stance. You should choose for yourself.

I just think he's a bit of a story teller and goes off piste with the truth.

I very much doubt he would lie or embellish the truth in a such a public forum un front of his own boss, to be honest.

As you say, everyone entitled to their opinion, but Matt Williams has always come across as the straight down the line to me.

[NewClaret]

I can assure you that Matt is one of the good guys. Maybe his words have been taken too literally but I'm aware of some of the situations involving some who left and the way they did it, some in the right way and some very much the opposite.

A couple of my friends were invited last night.

Pretty disgusting thought that we had such unprofessional players at the club. Hopefully lessons learned there.

What was it all about Tony? Post above suggests for investors?!

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Sorry if posted above, but anything mentioned about Trafford at the event? I think I recall on another thread someone saying he had been fairly professional after the end of last season.

[ashtonlongsider]

I can hand on heart say I wasn't bothered about any of the players that left in the last window. Don't remember any Jimmy Mac's, Dobbo's, Willie Morgan's, Tarks or Mee's, I could go on, but essentially players who were ingrained in the fabric of this great club of ours.

[ecc]

As disappointing as it is when players dig in and force a move away from the club, we've probably been the beneficiaries of that kind of behaviour a number of times over the years when we've signed players from lower down the pecking order.

All part of the game.

Indeed and inevitably.

[Jakubs Tash]

He said 3 Premeir Clubs and I think they were well documented.

Surely O’Shea didn’t have a “lifelong desire” to play for Wolves, Brentford or Ipswich??

Christ almighty!

[123EasyasBFC]

One of the things they both said was they regret the decision to not go all out and sign Tella and they realise that now it was a mistake

[NewClaret]

Yeah, feels like we've swung from one extreme to the other. Dyche was adamant about researching character, almost above anything else and it did serve us well although maybe restricted our 'market' at times.

Under VK and his team, we seem to have gone for a purely data model. You do unearth some talent but I can't believe we knew too much about the character of lads playing 2nd division football in France or wherever. Every now and again you will strike gold with someone like Steve, who's both ridiculously good and a model pro. Costly when it goes wrong, mind.

Just to say on this, the club have spoken on a number of occasions about how they recruit (Mooney may have referenced this in MtB2, would have to check) but they’ve reiterated several times that after selecting players based on data they extensively research their background/character.

In the corporate world for example, there are companies that perform detailed searches on peoples social media use, online presence and every possible bit of publicly available data. They provide reports to hiring companies as part of their DD before offering, usually for senior appointments, so I’m pretty sure that we’ll do the same on multi-£m transfers before bidding.

I suppose the issues are:

- Past behaviours won’t always dictate future behaviours

- You won’t get it right 100% of the time, as you point out Steve and Cullen are examples of model professionals recruited by the very same system

- We went for a young, ambitious mainly foreign group and naturally that profile will be less forgiving of failure

- We also recruited a whole new team in one season who basically have had no time to build any loyalty or affinity to the club over a period of time

In all, a complete mess up and one I hope Pace and the Board have taken serious learnings from. Per my post above, I think we need to be uncovering talent overlooked or forgotten by their existing clubs and bringing the best out of them, alongside the upcoming talent.

[NewClaret]

One of the things they both said was they regret the decision to not go all out and sign Tella and they realise that now it was a mistake

Wow

[ClaretTony]

Pretty disgusting thought that we had such unprofessional players at the club. Hopefully lessons learned there.

What was it all about Tony? Post above suggests for investors?!

It is disgusting but that's how things are I'm afraid. It doesn't take a lot of working out who they are either.

The two people I know who were invited both certainly have considerably more money than I have and I think would be considered potential investors.

[ChorltonCharlie]

Just to say on this, the club have spoken on a number of occasions about how they recruit (Mooney may have referenced this in MtB2, would have to check) but they’ve reiterated several times that after selecting players based on data they extensively research their background/character.

I take it with a pinch of salt. It's become a bit of a cliche. Something you'll hear people from every club talk about. I'm sure most clubs try and do their due diligence, but I'd question how reliable it is. Then you get to the end of the transfer window and panic will set in at times. Then you have to think, we're talking about players forcing moves who other clubs have felt quite happy to pay a lot of money for. Clubs are quite happy with those behaviours when it suits them and it's likely seen as part of the pantomime of the football world. Forcing a move (at a profit) when you think you've outgrown a club is far preferable to being poisonous in the dressing room week in, week out.

[warksclaret]

No way is Matt Williams going to make stuff up if Alan Pace was there. Its sad that a number of players pushed to move .How good do they think they were.O Shea could find himself in the Championship in 7-8 months, Berge will struggle to start at Fulham on a regular basis. With Muric we have seen some of the worst goal keeping gaffs in the PL this season, and when Odobert has played for Spurs his contribution has been minimal-I think now injured he will struggle to get near the starting 11. Zarourry never did it at Hull, and in the few games for us this season looked very average.

It shows there is no substitute for genuine team players like Tarks, Barnes, Arfield, Ward, Barton, Taylor , Vokes, Brownhill. No coincidence they were all Dyche's chosen players-but whatever division we were in they gave it everything

[woody]

Apparently got a bit emotional when asked about him wanting to sell the club, basically saying no chance.

To be honest he didn't get emotional when asked about selling the club, he got emotional talking about why he bought the club. He was talking about his dad.
Regarding Tella, Matt was very open and said we wanted him and could have got him for 15 million, we were prepared to pay that but were persuaded to wait by his agent as he thought we'd get him for less. This seemed to be the case until Bayer Leverkusen came from nowhere to scupper the deal.

[woody]

No way is Matt Williams going to make stuff up if Alan Pace was there. Its sad that a number of players pushed to move .How good do they think they were.O Shea could find himself in the Championship in 7-8 months, Berge will struggle to start at Fulham on a regular basis. With Muric we have seen some of the worst goal keeping gaffs in the PL this season, and when Odobert has played for Spurs his contribution has been minimal-I think now injured he will struggle to get near the starting 11. Zarourry never did it at Hull, and in the few games for us this season looked very average.

It shows there is no substitute for genuine team players like Tarks, Barnes, Arfield, Ward, Barton, Taylor , Vokes, Brownhill. No coincidence they were all Dyche's chosen players-but whatever division we were in they gave it everything

Three players said they weren't going to play in the Championship for a season. Berge, Oderbert and Amdouni. Muric basically said he wouldn't play for the club again and was prepared to sit on his contract for two years.
Sounds like O'Shea was a complete prick as soon as the Premier League came calling.
Zaroury actually sent a sick note to club the day before the Sunderland game and refused to train.
He spoke very highly of Brownhill, Cullen and Esteve.

[Hipper]

On O'Shea, am I right in thinking it is alleged that he 'downed tools' after the Spurs game?

First of all, was it not O'Shea who berated Assignon for a ridiculous dive? He also played against Forest and the first two games this season, and in those two he played well. I therefore find this suggestion unlikely. More likely is that he felt that after the progress he made last season he wanted another go in the Premier League. Who can blame him for that? Most of us wanted to keep him based on his performances.

[ClaretTony]

Just to say on this, the club have spoken on a number of occasions about how they recruit (Mooney may have referenced this in MtB2, would have to check) but they’ve reiterated several times that after selecting players based on data they extensively research their background/character.

I don't think that extensive research on background/character is anything like it was if indeed much is done no matter what Mooney might say. Those checks were paramount when Dyche was here, similarly with Ternent and Cotterill. I'm far from convinced given some of the stuff I've been told.

[Royboyclaret]

Three players said they weren't going to play in the Championship for a season. Berge, Oderbert and Amdouni. Muric basically said he wouldn't play for the club again and was prepared to sit on his contract for two years.
Sounds like O'Shea was a complete prick as soon as the Premier League came calling.
Zaroury actually sent a sick note to club the day before the Sunderland game and refused to train.
He spoke very highly of Brownhill, Cullen and Esteve.

Just how low has our great Club descended ?

Connelly, Mac, Pointer, Robson & Pilky.....Where did it all go wrong ?

[Somethingfishy]

I know we are all trying to think of the four guys who demanded the move instantly after the Spurs game. Several have said Odobert and Amdouni. I doubt either were in that four considering that Odobert played at Luton and played well and Amdouni played against Cardiff and at Sunderland despite his move to Benfica beginning. I'd suggest both were in the group that later wanted out and in both cases you can hardly blame them for the moves they got.

I think Berge was one agitating for a move. That mysterious injury that kept him out at the start of the season. Convenient.
Zaroury will be one, Muric too.

[randomclaret2]

Just how low has our great Club descended ?

Connelly, Mac, Pointer, Robson & Pilky.....Where did it all go wrong ?

I would say the mid 80s were as low as our great club descended...things are positively rosy now in comparison

[RVclaret]

To be honest he didn't get emotional when asked about selling the club, he got emotional talking about why he bought the club. He was talking about his dad.
Regarding Tella, Matt was very open and said we wanted him and could have got him for 15 million, we were prepared to pay that but were persuaded to wait by his agent as he thought we'd get him for less. This seemed to be the case until Bayer Leverkusen came from nowhere to scupper the deal.

Interesting how it all works isn’t it. Never as ‘straightforward’ as it appears.

[Royboyclaret]

I would say the mid 80s were as low as our great club descended...things are positively rosy now in comparison

Rosy is difficult to comprehend, random.

[Burnley1989]

Just how low has our great Club descended ?

Connelly, Mac, Pointer, Robson & Pilky.....Where did it all go wrong ?

How can you blame the club for that ffs

Stupid comment

[Royboyclaret]

How can you blame the club for that ffs

Stupid comment

Absolutely no blame attached.

[TheFamilyCat]

A very popular keeper was the player who threatened to down tools..

I expected better from Chris Pearce.

[DCWat]

I’ve nothing against Williams sharing some insight, though I can see where Quicken is coming from, to a degree - particularly around the superlatives being thrown towards Parker, when not so long ago, Kompany was the best thing to ever happen to this club (come on, now).

These sort of things are always going to be interesting to us fans, but what I’d be more interested in hearing, is what we have learned from it and what we are looking to do differently going forward.

Under Dyche, we were hamstrung by character profiling, under Kompany we were hamstrung by no character profiling.

We have to find a middle ground and that might include having a smattering of poorer characters but with a bagful of talent. The hope being that having a core of good characters who get the club, know what it’s about, can positively influence those around them.

It’s all well and good saying that Kompany only went for players hitting certain metrics, Pace and Co. allowed him to do that - pretty much unchecked from what I can see. They hopefully shoulder a share of the responsibility and with any luck, that might benefit us down the line.

[bodge]

Anything said about whether they thought the season is panning out as expected so far or any comments about Scott Parker ?

[Royboyclaret]

Anything said about whether they thought the season is panning out as expected so far or any comments about Scott Parker ?

Where's woody ?

[Mattster]

I read some other comments that no current players have release clauses too, which puts to bed the idea those long contracts for Luca and Esteve would have them.

Not necessarily.

It could quite easily be a bit of a half truth ie. there are no "active" releases clauses now but should we fail to win promotion from the Championship, however, some may become active.

Or simply there are gentleman's agreements in place rather than release clauses.

[NewClaret]

I don't think that extensive research on background/character is anything like it was if indeed much is done no matter what Mooney might say. Those checks were paramount when Dyche was here, similarly with Ternent and Cotterill. I'm far from convinced given some of the stuff I've been told.

I’m not disagreeing with you, my point was that I don’t believe for a second that we commit to a multi-£m signing without background/character checks (Mooney was one person to discuss it - and most recent, I think - but many others have as well - Pace, Williams, etc).

I think what you’re saying is that they’re not as extensive or as paramount as they once were. I’m not disagreeing with that. I’m not even sure it would be as possible to do that when recruiting in a much wider market.

What I do think is that previous managers have also signed bad characters, despite these more extensive checks, say Dyche with Gibson. We’ve also had players like Tarks give interviews to the press saying they plan to run their contract down. And our club captain ran his contract down and left after a relegation without a thought.

My point being I’m not really sure the end result is much different if you get relegated.

In Kompany’s case, he recruited about 40 players over 4 windows and the OP said 4 of them were bad uns (may be more), but he might argue that’s a 90% success rate and about par for the course when recruiting people in any organisation. And he may have a point.