Parker - In or Out

[Jakubclaret]

I said this just as were winning the Championship with over a 100 points that we would struggle to replace the squad in the summer of 2023.

by ClaretPete001 » Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:37 pm

Said all along we need 8 players to replace the rump of the old PL team and to buy/replace the 4 loanees.

If we can keep sign the loanees then reasonably you could expect it to be an evolution rather than a transition but if we can't then I think it will be a challenge to find 8 PL quality players in the summer.

Odd people did have doubts I'm not disputing that but the general consensus was that kompany knew what he was doing & after the championship success & promotion not many people veered away from that train of thought. Having doubts & being critical wasn't vogue.

[It Is What It Is]

Over a hundred minutes and not one solitary single shot on goal....relegation stuff that.

[ClaretPete001]

The biggest two mistakes of the summer was letting Amdouni and Obafemi go on loan. I think before Hountondji was signed.

I could be wrong but I think Benfica only have a purchase option in the contract to buy Amdouni.

[BurnleyFC]

For the first 2 games of the season, with his original players, Parker played mega-attacking football.

He didn’t.

We were really poor in the first half against Cardiff, but somehow went in at halftime 2-0 up.

It was one of the strangest games of football I’ve seen.

[ClaretPete001]

Odd people did have doubts I'm not disputing that but the general consensus was that kompany knew what he was doing & after the championship success & promotion not many people veered away from that train of thought. Having doubts & being critical wasn't vogue.

There were a few but not the majority I agree, but it was pretty obvious that we would struggle to replace the Championship winning team particularly when VK decided not to play what was left of it.

And it was pretty obvious that playing a 'City lite' style would be a disaster in the PL.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know these things.

[Vegas Claret]

The biggest two mistakes of the summer was letting Amdouni and Obafemi go on loan. I think before Hountondji was signed.

I could be wrong but I think Benfica only have a purchase option in the contract to buy Amdouni.

We loaned Obafemi (our 5th or 6th choice striker) to Millwall to help them get out of the relegation zone, we then signed Millwall's best player and then lost to them. I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Has Amdouni gone for the season or can we recall him early, i would be doing that if we can.

[nil_desperandum]

He didn’t.
We were really poor in the first half against Cardiff, but somehow went in at halftime 2-0 up.
It was one of the strangest games of football I’ve seen.

Spot on.
They gifted us most of our goals. According to the stats our expected goals was just 0.81, and we scored 5 even though we only had 4 shots on target!

[Clive 1960]

plus it will only make things worse when booing at the end of the game, yes the football could be better but Parker only had what was available to him after the transfer window, we definitely need at least one striker in January...

[Jakubs Tash]

Did he have enough time though? A lot of the transfer business was done in the last week of the window, a bit like going to Tesco just they about to shut. These transfer windows don’t help when you have to sell and go and find a replacement with a couple of days to go, and clubs won’t sell without a replacement.

Kompany’s legacy.

Towards the last few weeks of the window there were many fans who thought we were short up front with Rodriguez (who doesn’t seem to stay fit), Foster (who we know can miss large periods through mental or physical fitness) and Houtondji (who was completely untried and unproven).

It was also glaringly obvious that the likes of Amdouni and Weghorst weren’t hanging around. And Parker will obviously have been privy to this too.

Therefore, they should have planned much better and made sure they had all bases covered in this key area.

[Jakubs Tash]

Has Amdouni gone for the season or can we recall him early, i would be doing that if we can.

Why would Amdouni come back to Burnley?? Not a chance that’ll happen.

Besides which, I could be wrong but I think it’s a loan with an obligation to buy.

[Vegas Claret]

Has Amdouni gone for the season or can we recall him early, i would be doing that if we can.

wasn't it loan with an obligation to buy ?

[NewClaret]

In

I’ve said before that I think when you become a circus that hires and fires managers you sign your own decline and realistically who is realistically going to come in and improve us?

But to be honest, I think the rot has set in. He’s lost a good portion of the fanbase. I can’t see that Pace is going to stick with this with the squad we have. I think he’ll be gone by Christmas whatever I want.

[Wokingclaret]

He has to fix the goal scoring problem, if he can't then he's toast

[dvalley69]

Whoever is head of recruitment seriously needs to leave, and whoever gave Jay a contract needs shooting, probably a commercial guy thinking it'll keep the fans sweets coz "he's one of our own". These owners are incompetent and making a mockery of it. They might show they care on TV shows, but they are chancers and smooth talkers, and haven't a clue. SP has been conned and it looks like he's starting to realise it, and doesn't have much of a plan B. He probably thought he'd have all these quality players, and his method of keeping it tight and relying on individuals would be enough. I'm feeling pretty pessimistic as we've got players who are going through the motions (said it many times on here but Brownhill has downed tools and hates the fans so seeing out his contract), ditto Roberts, and lots who are just very very average, who we need to stop kidding ourselves as being decent players when there not!

[BigBadBarnes]

I hate the current football and can't see things improving any time soon but I also dislike when clubs sack managers so soon. Getting rid now is a sign of a mistake by the owners and they will probably not want to own that just yet.

But Parker has to realise the glaring issues with how he is clearly telling the team to play. Yes we are lacking quality in the final third. But in Cullen and Brownhill there is a good technical championship pairing so let's start getting the CBs to play the ball in to them with the hope of actually getting back to playing football. Everything is going to the full backs and then to the wingers and there's no space to progress. At the moment it's just a hope and prayer that one of the wingers will pull something out of the hat but they aren't good enough to do so.

[Stonehouse]

I hate the current football and can't see things improving any time soon but I also dislike when clubs sack managers so soon. Getting rid now is a sign of a mistake by the owners and they will probably not want to own that just yet.

But Parker has to realise the glaring issues with how he is clearly telling the team to play. Yes we are lacking quality in the final third. But in Cullen and Brownhill there is a good technical championship pairing so let's start getting the CBs to play the ball in to them with the hope of actually getting back to playing football. Everything is going to the full backs and then to the wingers and there's no space to progress. At the moment it's just a hope and prayer that one of the wingers will pull something out of the hat but they aren't good enough to do so.

Mentioned during the match that Brownhill wasn’t mentioned on commentary for the first 30 mins and after that just seemed to make a load of silly mistakes ,how this guy can be captain is beyond me.

[SydneyClaret]

In. But only if he allows the team to show some flare and creativity. Who cares about losing shape in the Championship. Half the teams couldn’t score in an open net anyway. Might as well gonall out to beat them 5-3.

If he can’t see this then he has to go.

[JimmyRobbo]

Ridiculous thread underlining a lack of understanding of football.

To turn any ship around takes time. Time, skill, professionalism and an awful lot of luck.

The guy had his star players sold after having them for preseason. That is a major hindrance. Give him time. Give him a few windows. We will be competitive come the end of season. We may not go straight up but we might.

The complaints about style...didn't seem to be such a problem when we were attacking and scoring tons against Luton and Cardiff. Give him time. Time that he deserves.

[ClaretPete001]

wasn't it loan with an obligation to buy ?

Depends what you read but most media reports say it's just an option.

[Murger]

Ridiculous thread underlining a lack of understanding of football.

To turn any ship around takes time. Time, skill, professionalism and an awful lot of luck.

The guy had his star players sold after having them for preseason. That is a major hindrance. Give him time. Give him a few windows. We will be competitive come the end of season. We may not go straight up but we might.

The complaints about style...didn't seem to be such a problem when we were attacking and scoring tons against Luton and Cardiff. Give him time. Time that he deserves.

Why does he deserve time?

[NewClaret]

In. But only if he allows the team to show some flare and creativity. Who cares about losing shape in the Championship. Half the teams couldn’t score in an open net anyway. Might as well gonall out to beat them 5-3.

If he can’t see this then he has to go.

I agree with you, we’re WAY too conservative for this league.

Sadly I don’t think he’ll be changing or allowing players to Thow their flair.

[ClaretPete001]

Whoever is head of recruitment seriously needs to leave, and whoever gave Jay a contract needs shooting, probably a commercial guy thinking it'll keep the fans sweets coz "he's one of our own". These owners are incompetent and making a mockery of it. They might show they care on TV shows, but they are chancers and smooth talkers, and haven't a clue. SP has been conned and it looks like he's starting to realise it, and doesn't have much of a plan B. He probably thought he'd have all these quality players, and his method of keeping it tight and relying on individuals would be enough. I'm feeling pretty pessimistic as we've got players who are going through the motions (said it many times on here but Brownhill has downed tools and hates the fans so seeing out his contract), ditto Roberts, and lots who are just very very average, who we need to stop kidding ourselves as being decent players when there not!

A more reasonable assessment would be that they gave Jay Rod a new contract because they knew they did not have the firepower and required Jay Rod for cover.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Why would Amdouni come back to Burnley?? Not a chance that’ll happen.

Besides which, I could be wrong but I think it’s a loan with an obligation to buy.

wasn't it loan with an obligation to buy ?

Ive no idea but were incredibly short upfront, depends if hes playing regular at Benfica, doubtful he would come back anyway but were looking pretty desperate for a decent striker with a bit of pedigree. We look pretty fooked at the moment if something doesnt change. Need to bring quality in from somewhere even if we have to force him back

[ClaretPete001]

I agree with you, we’re WAY too conservative for this league.

Sadly I don’t think he’ll be changing or allowing players to Thow their flair.

Flair? As far as I can see Kolosheo and Anthony are allowed to do their thing. Laurent has been allowed to roam and has probably been one of the better players.

Brownhill is a bit of a mystery but at the moment all the more creative midfield players are injured.

Other then play Hountodji and Jay Rod in a 4-4-2 what more can he do?

[dvalley69]

A more reasonable assessment would be that they gave Jay Rod a new contract because they knew they did not have the firepower and required Jay Rod for cover.

Barnes left after promotion and Jay stayed, and Jay is still here. We've had time (Obafemi) to find replacements. There is no justification, sorry, for him to still be getting a playing contract when he should've gone like Barnes 2 years ago.

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Ive just read on transfermarket its an option to buy and weve got a 2 million euros loan fee, christ we have shot ourselves in the foot there. It says we paid £15m for him only last season when Kompany was still here. I wasnt his biggest fan in premier but we desperately need a decent striker in Jan if we can get him back i would do so.

[ClaretPete001]

Barnes left after promotion and Jay stayed, and Jay is still here. We've had time (Obafemi) to find replacements. There is no justification, sorry, for him to still be getting a playing contract when he should've gone like Barnes 2 years ago.

I'm not making a judgement on whether he should be here or not but just giving a reason why he likely is here.

They knew that they would struggle to find a quality striker and/or never intended to buy one.

[ClaretPete001]

Ive just read on transfermarket its an option to buy and weve got a 2 million euros loan fee, christ we have shot ourselves in the foot there. It says we paid £15m for him only last season when Kompany was still here. I wasnt his biggest fan in premier but we desperately need a decent striker in Jan if we can get him back i would do so.

I said that about 6 posts above. We likely can't get him back but it's a huge mistake.

[JimmyRobbo]

Why does he deserve time?

Why not?

[Wokingclaret]

Why not?

Poor teams have sussed us out, look at their managers comments, Parker needs to change.

[Murger]

Why not?

Fair enough if you think he should have more time, but why does he deserve it?

[Peacock-Barrel]

In.
It's frustrating but Parker's had barely any options up front since the window. Foster's been missing half the season, Flemming's been missing half the season, Hountondji and Jay have struggled off the bench. Anthony and Koleosho have been the only fit wingers, having to play 90 mins every week through bad form. Sarmiento's missed a lot of games, Agyei's untried, there's been no other wingers available. No attacking mids available either, Brownhill, Laurent, Hannibal are all hardworking CMs but aren't unlocking a deep-lying defence, or scoring from the edge of the box. And the full-backs have been disappointing, but there again Roberts has missed games, Pires has been poor, Humphreys is out of position.
We could have played different tactics but we'd have had the same players to select from and opponents would have sat deep for a draw and time wasted, it wouldn't have made much difference so far.

[dsr]

Flair? As far as I can see Kolosheo and Anthony are allowed to do their thing. Laurent has been allowed to roam and has probably been one of the better players.

Brownhill is a bit of a mystery but at the moment all the more creative midfield players are injured.

Other then play Hountodji and Jay Rod in a 4-4-2 what more can he do?

You've answered your own question. When we're a goal down against a moderate side, playing a defensive formation showing no sign of scoring, then he could try playing an extra forward. There was absolutely no sense in continuing with the same system for the last 25 minutes today.

[JimmyRobbo]

Fair enough if you think he should have more time, but why does he deserve it?

As I said in 1st post, went through preseason with his best players and then they all left. It is incredibly difficult to reset without a proper forward threat or a legit presence.

Give hm a proper window. I assume we knew the issue, as an organisation, which is why they went after Tommy Conway in summer. He's scored 4 in 8 so far.

[dsr]

In.
It's frustrating but Parker's had barely any options up front since the window. Foster's been missing half the season, Flemming's been missing half the season, Hountondji and Jay have struggled off the bench. Anthony and Koleosho have been the only fit wingers, having to play 90 mins every week through bad form. Sarmiento's missed a lot of games, Agyei's untried, there's been no other wingers available. No attacking mids available either, Brownhill, Laurent, Hannibal are all hardworking CMs but aren't unlocking a deep-lying defence, or scoring from the edge of the box. And the full-backs have been disappointing, but there again Roberts has missed games, Pires has been poor, Humphreys is out of position.
We could have played different tactics but we'd have had the same players to select from and opponents would have sat deep for a draw and time wasted, it wouldn't have made much difference so far.

We had two wingers and one centre forward, and were still passing it uselessly in the last 10 minutes. Why not stick a centre half in the box, along with both our forwards, and give the wingers someone to cross to? Better option than withdrawing the centre forward and playing to lose 1-0.

[ClaretPete001]

You've answered your own question. When we're a goal down against a moderate side, playing a defensive formation showing no sign of scoring, then he could try playing an extra forward. There was absolutely no sense in continuing with the same system for the last 25 minutes today.

I was talking more about the season as a whole going 4-4-2 with Jay Rod is not going to get you into the top 2 in this league.

The squad lacks firepower. We have 1 player who appears to be decent enough in this division albeit he's only scored 2 goals in nigh on 20 games and I don't think he can play in this formation. We then have a 35 year old and a youngster who looks quite a long way off.

After that you have a Flemming who is more of an attacking midfield player. I don't see squad that can play 4-4-2. With Flemming back a 4-2-3-1 looks more promising but it's not working.

Parker looks too cautions I agree but I don't think that's the fundamental problem.

[Quicknick]

In

[Shaggy]

All this there’s no options is just a convenient excuse for some people. There are options, and tactical changes which could be implemented. Parker has specifically set us up this way. This is his style, his coaching and instructions. Dominating possession but doing nothing with it, no attacking threat is on his instructions.

I am not Parker out (yet) however I am very dismayed with the current trajectory of the team.

In the cold light of day with our budget we should be getting promoted and anything short of that is a failure.

[Sheedyclaret]

Ridiculous thread underlining a lack of understanding of football.

To turn any ship around takes time. Time, skill, professionalism and an awful lot of luck.

The guy had his star players sold after having them for preseason. That is a major hindrance. Give him time. Give him a few windows. We will be competitive come the end of season. We may not go straight up but we might.

The complaints about style...didn't seem to be such a problem when we were attacking and scoring tons against Luton and Cardiff. Give him time. Time that he deserves.

Luton game we still had a very strong squad before selling them off Cardiff outplayed us for 45 minutes how won 5 zip I still don’t know have we actually put in a good 90 mins display yet?? I can’t recall one

[Jakubs Tash]

Ridiculous thread underlining a lack of understanding of football.

Ah. You’ve played the old ‘if you don’t have the same opinion as me then you don’t really understand football’ card.

[bobinho]

One or two mentioning Amdouni….

Well, I remember Amdouni. How on earth anyone could think he’s the answer to our lack of goals conundrum obviously doesn’t.

[MeeActon1]

A more reasonable assessment would be that they gave Jay Rod a new contract because they knew they did not have the firepower and required Jay Rod for cover.

He signed his new contract on 30th May, 3 months before the end of the window, hardly a panic end of window cover signing. They had plenty of time yet wasted a wage because “He knows what it means.”

[claretonthecoast1882]

In, the last thing the clubs is to become one of those moronic fan bases that want a manager out every 3 months if they have a bad spell.

He is never going to win over some though which is an issue. Look at Trafford some who bitched and moaned about him all last season due to missing the golden boy Muric even now can't bring themselves to give him any credit. Some of the comments on the players ratings when it comes to him are childish but it shows once some have made a choice they will never change.

[JohnMcGreal]

The team looks in big trouble but they're going to have to stick with him a bit longer yet. No point sacking him at this stage.

If we still look this clueless come January then he'll be lucky to still be in a job.

Performances have to start improving. Simple as that.

[willsclarets]

So you suggest we tread water for a year because it would be unfair to sack a manager so soon? Fair enough, not sure we can afford to do so personally.

It's not so much it's unfair, more completely illogical. You go through a rigorous interview process and find your man. A huge recruitment turnover takes place, and you're sat 4th after 13 games. You sack him, pay big compo, and start the process again.

We are playing pretty turgid stuff, but we are hard to beat. For me the obvious thing is to give him time.to develop our play at the other end. Each game it doesn't happen feels like the end for our supporters atm, but this stuff can take time. We just don't appreciate in the main that concept. I'm as guilty watching sometimes it's so frustrating.

I don't mean give him a full season at all costs either, if we're sat 14th in February, I think the conversation changes. But for now, the panic button should stay well away from the board's desk. He's got two promotions, he's not stupid and he knows what needs fixing. For now we have to be patient and see if he can deliver.

[KRBFC]

It's not so much it's unfair, more completely illogical. You go through a rigorous interview process and find your man. A huge recruitment turnover takes place, and you're sat 4th after 13 games. You sack him, pay big compo, and start the process again.

We are playing pretty turgid stuff, but we are hard to beat. For me the obvious thing is to give him time.to develop our play at the other end. Each game it doesn't happen feels like the end for our supporters atm, but this stuff can take time. We just don't appreciate in the main that concept. I'm as guilty watching sometimes it's so frustrating.

I don't mean give him a full season at all costs either, if we're sat 14th in February, I think the conversation changes. But for now, the panic button should stay well away from the board's desk. He's got two promotions, he's not stupid and he knows what needs fixing. For now we have to be patient and see if he can deliver.

But do you really believe things will improve? If so, what is that based on?

If you don’t believe things will improve then is it better for the board to hold their hands up and accept they got the wrong man or do we drag this out, tread water for a while just for the sake of giving him time.

I’m torn between both

[dsr]

I was talking more about the season as a whole going 4-4-2 with Jay Rod is not going to get you into the top 2 in this league.

The squad lacks firepower. We have 1 player who appears to be decent enough in this division albeit he's only scored 2 goals in nigh on 20 games and I don't think he can play in this formation. We then have a 35 year old and a youngster who looks quite a long way off.

After that you have a Flemming who is more of an attacking midfield player. I don't see squad that can play 4-4-2. With Flemming back a 4-2-3-1 looks more promising but it's not working.

Parker looks too cautions I agree but I don't think that's the fundamental problem.

The second paragraph is exactly where Parker is going wrong. We don't have players who can play in this formation, so why are we playing it? The managers job is to put the players in the best position, and best formation, to win. Parker isn't doing that. Guardiola at Man City has set the trend for managers micro-managing every player's every move on the pitch; but he's good enough to do that. Most managers aren't.

[ChorltonCharlie]

Crazy topic, with responses that I doubt are reflective of our whole fanbase. When you’ve spent weeks trying to recruit the best man for the job and you sit 4th and 3 points off automatic promotion a quarter of the way into the season you don’t sack your head coach.

I am very disappointed with how we’re playing and fed up with seeing all these excuses. Looking at our fit players, it’s a small squad, but still one where the majority walk into other teams in the league. They may not be good enough to go on long winning runs, but they should look much more like producing positive results. There’s no shame in losing 1-0 away at Millwall, these results will happen. It’s the manner of the defeats/draws (and even wins) which are concerning. From an attacking point of view, yesterday was the worst yet. All this talk of things will get better is nonsense. It seems like we get worse every game. It’s very hard to see what we’re trying to do. There’s little in the way of any kind of attacking patterns. We have a lot of possession, but it’s all in our own defensive third. We can’t carry the ball up the pitch. When we do it’s matter of time before an individual mistake.

What really bugs me is the similarities with last year where making the same tactical mistakes week in, week out is resulting in the players being questioned. Players will always have off days and poor runs of form, but Brownhill’s goals aside, it’s hard to think of a player who is not a centre back that’s had a good start to the season. That has to sit with Parker.

So no, I wouldn’t sack Parker, but I fear unless he starts doing something different by the time we get to January the board will have little choice.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

In