Ref watch.

[Tricky Trevor]

For my sanity I have to give up on football.
Gallagher and Warnock are backing the FAs announcement that this was just a yellow.
The ball is out of sight above them and Martinez started his “tackle” after the ball was out of sight. Kicks him on the knee but it shouldn’t matter where he kicks him. This has to be a red.
The number of grey areas in football where decisions are given one way one week and justified and the opposite way the next week and are justified is beyond me.
Corrupt as f*ck.

IMG_4539.jpeg (1.17 MiB) Viewed 2513 times

[Stproc]

I saw this & said immediately that it was a red card. The lateness, direction and studs 1st are exactly what the red card was designed for. But it’s the Premier league, they do what they want.

[beddie]

I’ll sum it up by saying if that was us in the premier league and one of our players did the exact same tackle in exactly the same scenario then we’d get a red. How it wasn’t given is beyond me.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

This was given as a corner ---not just the PL!

https://x.com/theposh/status/1853082203 ... ukZdC5F7gA

[what now !]

i suspect the decision at Man U yesterday was a reaction to the one the other week where Fernandez got sent off and then they rescinded the red. it did look like the ref was taking the stadium and the club into account as if that had been say a Bournemouth or Leicester player doing that at old Trafford then it would have been a straight red and no one would have complained.

[quoonbeatz]

Definitely a yellow at worst. Watch it at full speed, he just reacts to the ball movement and flicks his leg out. Unfortunate and it would be a sore one for Palmer but these things happen in football.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Nasty player is Martinez. I think he knows exactly what he’s doing there.

[what now !]

the thing is though a very similar one next week will be a nailed on red and no one will argue its the consistency, oh and i always use the metric, if it was on our player would i want a red , if the answer, is yes then its a red, this debate of 'well some say it is some say it isn't' is rubbish,
for example i don't know one single Burnley fan who thought Trafford wasn't fouled for Luton's goal last season. if we had got that decision for an equaliser we would have thought we had got away with one. i think utd fans probably feel they got away with one yesterday. it it had been a chelsea player on a utd player you can bet they would have been screaming for a red !!!

[Colburn_Claret]

Definitely a yellow at worst. Watch it at full speed, he just reacts to the ball movement and flicks his leg out. Unfortunate and it would be a sore one for Palmer but these things happen in football.

Ridiculous.
I missed it yesterday so just watched it on ref watch. If he wasn't trying to kick Palmer, what was he he throwing his foot at, because the ball was long gone. It was clearly deliberate, the fact that the contact wasn't hard enough to injure him was just good fortune.

[quoonbeatz]

Ridiculous.
I missed it yesterday so just watched it on ref watch. If he wasn't trying to kick Palmer, what was he he throwing his foot at, because the ball was long gone. It was clearly deliberate, the fact that the contact wasn't hard enough to injure him was just good fortune.

Behave. Like I said, watch it at full speed. Even in slow motion the ball isn’t ’long gone’, palmers flick puts him off balance.

[Tricky Trevor]

Behave. Like I said, watch it at full speed. Even in slow motion the ball isn’t ’long gone’, palmers flick puts him off balance.

Rubbish. The ball is out of shot and went up in the air, nowhere near the tackle point. It might not have been a deliberate intention to hurt him but it was the intention to stop him and it was studs into knee. You really need to watch it again. As I wrote in the OP Martinez made his “tackle” after the ball had gone up and he lunges to the right.
Totally deliberate and reckless.

[Goody1975]

Definitely an orange card at least, he knows what he's doing.

The only thing would be the force of the kick but when watching it live I thought it was a red.

Tin foil hat and all, but we know that decisions like this for the smaller sides go against them. If this was Ipswich, Southampton etc I think it's given as a red. Is that because I think the referees are corrupt? No, it's just nobody (outside of those sides supporters) cares if an Ipswich or Southampton player is dismissed, the referees subconsciously know there will be no backlash in that instance and don't second guess themselves.

[nil_desperandum]

This was given as a corner ---not just the PL!

https://x.com/theposh/status/1853082203 ... ukZdC5F7gA

Thanks for posting.
Had heard about it, but not seen it.
Often a referee has a decision to make, and opposing fans will see it differently, but you would think that there's no decision to make here. The ball ends up in the back of the net.
Has the referee given any reason?
The only possible explanation is that the corner was taken before the referee was ready?
I note that the player celebrations are somewhat muted, so maybe something wasn't quite right??

[nil_desperandum]

Re: previous post (Can't edit)
Just looked at more footage. The referee definitely blows the whistle before the corner is taken. It's possible that he was blowing for some kind of infringement in the box, but that doesn't seem to be the case. it's just a really bad decision.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Thanks for posting.
Had heard about it, but not seen it.
Often a referee has a decision to make, and opposing fans will see it differently, but you would think that there's no decision to make here. The ball ends up in the back of the net.
Has the referee given any reason?
The only possible explanation is that the corner was taken before the referee was ready?
I note that the player celebrations are somewhat muted, so maybe something wasn't quite right??
Re: previous post (Can't edit)
Just looked at more footage. The referee definitely blows the whistle before the corner is taken. It's possible that he was blowing for some kind of infringement in the box, but that doesn't seem to be the case. it's just a really bad decision.

The thing which struck me was the fact that the ball was clearly in the back of the net, however, after the ref had checked with his assistant, I would have expected them to inspect the net because there was clearly not a problem with the netting, however, they didn't do anything except award another corner. It was all a bit bizarre.
Fortunately, it did not affect the match result because The Posh won 4-2 anyway.

[randomclaret2]

The thing which struck me was the fact that the ball was clearly in the back of the net, however, after the ref had checked with his assistant, I would have expected them to inspect the net because there was clearly not a problem with the netting, however, they didn't do anything except award another corner. It was all a bit bizarre.
Fortunately, it did not affect the match result because The Posh won 4-2 anyway.

Did they retrieve the ball from the back of the net to allow the corner to be taken with it ?

[MDWat]

I’m with quoon on this one. It’s a reactionary flick out to try and stop the ball. Palmer is super quick and it’s a bit unlucky. Doesn’t look malicious to me. Yellow.

[what now !]

I’m with quoon on this one. It’s a reactionary flick out to try and stop the ball. Palmer is super quick and it’s a bit unlucky. Doesn’t look malicious to me. Yellow.

if its in the box its a pen right , and a yellow? as its double jeopardy to send him off , if its outside the box its a straight red , i have no doubt there will be a very similar one in the next couple of weeks that will be compared with this , its the consistency that's the problem. and it has consequences.

look at us last season some of the decisions against us were shocking and we received at least 3 apology letters from the PGMOL ultimately costing us precious points and momentum if they get those decisions right we may have stopped up , its all about context over a season

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Did they retrieve the ball from the back of the net to allow the corner to be taken with it ?

Yes they did.

[randomclaret2]

Yes they did.

Did they wonder how it had got there ?

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Did they wonder how it had got there ?

I am not a mind reader so I have no idea what thoughts the officials had. The players knew how it had got there, particularly the defender who headed it and the goalkeeper who touched it on the way in, however, you wouldn't expect them to say anything and the Peterborough players were quite calm in the whole situation.

[quoonbeatz]

Rubbish. The ball is out of shot and went up in the air, nowhere near the tackle point. It might not have been a deliberate intention to hurt him but it was the intention to stop him and it was studs into knee. You really need to watch it again. As I wrote in the OP Martinez made his “tackle” after the ball had gone up and he lunges to the right.
Totally deliberate and reckless.

lol.

I watched it back before I posted on this thread to check what I thought I’d seen on MOTD and it confirmed I was right. It’s you who needs to watch it back at full speed. Not in slo-mo and not a still photo. If you watch it at full speed and think Martinez has the ability to think about deliberately taking out Palmer at the knee in that split second then you’re giving him far more credit than I ever would.

Football is largely a game of split second reactions; it’s why a lot of dumb stuff happens where you think “why did he do that?”. It’s not usually because they want to injure someone’s else.

[quoonbeatz]

if its in the box its a pen right , and a yellow? as its double jeopardy to send him off , if its outside the box its a straight red.

No.

If it’s in the box it’s a pen, yes, and a booking at worst but it wouldn’t be a sending off unless it denies a goalscorong opportunity. As the ball looped way up in the air, it wouldn’t have been denying a goalscoring opportunity so there’s no double jeopardy.

[what now !]

No.

If it’s in the box it’s a pen, yes, and a booking at worst but it wouldn’t be a sending off unless it denies a goalscorong opportunity. As the ball looped way up in the air, it wouldn’t have been denying a goalscoring opportunity so there’s no double jeopardy.

exactly my point if its a pen and yellow in the box then it should be a red outside the box,

i don't buy this 'he had a split second to pull out of it' , zaroury got sent off against man city for a split second decision which the ref booked him for then VAR got involved and said red , also, was it O'Shea that got sent off at Everton for DOGSOP nearly on the half way line and they said that was a red, then wrote to the club to apologise after saying they got it wrong !!! i now the parameters have change slightly from last season but i still think that was a red and i have yet to see anything to change my mind.

[Rileybobs]

exactly my point if its a pen and yellow in the box then it should be a red outside the box,

i don't buy this 'he had a split second to pull out of it' , zaroury got sent off against man city for a split second decision which the ref booked him for then VAR got involved and said red , also, was it O'Shea that got sent off at Everton for DOGSOP nearly on the half way line and they said that was a red, then wrote to the club to apologise after saying they got it wrong !!! i now the parameters have change slightly from last season but i still think that was a red and i have yet to see anything to change my mind.

If it’s a red card outside the box then it would also be a red card if the same offence was committed inside the box.

[quoonbeatz]

exactly my point if its a pen and yellow in the box then it should be a red outside the box,

That isn’t how it works.

[what now !]

If it’s a red card outside the box then it would also be a red card if the same offence was committed inside the box.

no it wouldn't be a red inside the box as that is double jeopardy

i think the only reds inside the box are for dogso either a foul or a handball on the line although i may be wrong on that , serious foul play, maybe like breaking someone's leg

[Rileybobs]

no it wouldn't be a red inside the box as that is double jeopardy

i think the only reds inside the box are for dogso either a foul or a handball on the line although i may be wrong on that , serious foul play, maybe like breaking someone's leg

Yes serious foul play is using excessive force or endangering the safety of the opponent which is presumably what you feel Martinez was guilty of? Double jeopardy wouldn’t apply in this case therefore a red card and a penalty.

[Hipper]

Re: previous post (Can't edit)
Just looked at more footage. The referee definitely blows the whistle before the corner is taken. It's possible that he was blowing for some kind of infringement in the box, but that doesn't seem to be the case. it's just a really bad decision.

I was refereeing a youth game and a player hit the ball superbly and it flew into the net just inside of the post. At least that was my immediate thought but then the ball continued on behind the goal as if it hadn't gone in the net at all. I took a brief look at the net but couldn't see anything wrong so had no choice but to award a goal kick. I said 'unlucky' to the 'scorer' which he accepted in good grace and we continued without any problems. At half time one of the club officials was able to show that, even though the net looked ok, you could push a ball through it. I apologized to the lad but there was nothing I could do.

In hind sight I could have asked the team that conceded the 'goal' to allow their opponents to score a free goal but that might have lead to some unpleasantness if they had said 'no' so it was probably best that I didn't do that. Any thoughts on that should come from the defending team perhaps.