Parker - In or Out

[Guller Bull]

Out for me. I normally am one of the ones saying "Give him a bit longer to see if he can turn it around!"

I wasn't with Laws and it just feels like this is a modern day version of that cluelessness. (Is that a word?)

I have seen the comments for the last couple of weeks re "Oh my God we are still 2nd/4th etc and fans are wanting him out - morons!!!" etc etc "But we are better off points wise at this stage than we were under VK in the Championship and you want him gone???"

Yup I do because as far as I can see it aint going to improve and there is no point giving it till Christmas. I am not " one of those <entitled> fans that thinks we have a God given right to be up at the top table, to be honest I am not even bothered about promotion this season but it is awful to watch and seems to be getting worse match by match.

[CoolClaret]

I think we’re starting to see just how good Kompany was at this level now.

I don’t mean in terms of getting results, I mean in terms of attracting players and playing a very attractive style of football.

Oh for Muric’ dinks over the top to Tella, Benny’s screamers now.

It was always going to be near impossible for SP to replicate but I hadn’t quite expected we’d go this conservative/boring so quickly.

It wasn't all rosy - there was some pretty boring games in there where individual brilliance came through for us.

The problem is we don't have Ian Maatsen, Nathan Tella, Anass Zaroury, JBG & Manuel Benson (kinda do) and their replacements are nowhere near as good.

We have no one fit that can unlock a defence, even from the back - as much as I love Esteve, he isn't as good at passing the ball with purpose as Ekdal or Beyer or TBH... same with Traff vs Muric.

We need our creative players back fit, until then we will probably be more likely to win against the 'better teams' than the worse ones because we're going to keep running into the same issues.

[JR1882]

Few thoughts in my head at the moment

Last season was the most unenjoyable in recent memory, and the PL in general is becoming harder for a club like us to belong there. We have enjoyed promotion seasons too. After all that, i think im more interested now in just watching good football and enjoying going to the Turf than am about promotion/winning. And this is so unenjojable.

Yes we are ahead of where we were under VK at this level, however that was good to watch and you could see what they were trying to be, it was just taking time to get there - this is just - well nothing? There’s nothing there at all.

We kept Dyche too long & pulled the trigger too late in the season. We should have potted VK halfway through last season to give us a fighting chance. It looks quite obvious already that this isn’t really happening for Scott. Great guy dealt a bad hand but he’s not helping himself.

We have played all of the bottom 8 and only 4 of the top 12 (won 1 - Leeds where we got battered). Over half of our goals came in 2 games with a different squad - 8 in 11 games since. 11 games isn’t “poor form” that tells me this is how it’s going to be.

Not a fan of sacking managers, and I don’t care if we don’t go up, but being 4th in the Champ should be far more enjoyable than this.

[NL Claret]

Like Tarkowski, Keane, Heaton etc. They all came to progress their careers to, what's the difference. Nationality?
Let's go back to signing just British based players then in that case.

I don't care what the motive of the player is, I just know I'd prefer to watch Zaroury and Benson type players over Jadon Anthony.

The players you have mentioned didn’t depart after a season. Heaton and Tarkowski were part of the fabric and stability of the club.

Dyche would do due diligence on a player beforehand and didn’t end up with a dressing room full of mercenaries.

I’m doubt you are getting my point so I’m not going to bother.

[alf_resco]

Out.
We were warned by Fulham & Bournemouth fans and he was useless at Bruges.
His press interviews are mind- numbing ("in that sense") and his game plan if he has one is unfathomable.
And he constantly pronounces "threat" as "fret" which really grinds my gears.

[Walkerpool]

I think it's unfair on Parker to get sacked without a proper transfer window but if we could get Ruud or someone like him I'd sack him now.

[bfcbri]

For all those saying out, I don't think many were saying that 2 games in after impressive wins.

His team then was sold and he had to do a pretty much total rebuild so although we are not hitting the heights of 2 years ago i seem to remember that the beginning of the campaign under Kompany wasn't that great and people were calling for his head.

Happy to let him try with a fully fit squad and then see where we are. so an in from me

UTC

[Devils_Advocate]

For all those saying out, I don't think many were saying that 2 games in after impressive wins.

His team then was sold and he had to do a pretty much total rebuild so although we are not hitting the heights of 2 years ago i seem to remember that the beginning of the campaign under Kompany wasn't that great and people were calling for his head.

Happy to let him try with a fully fit squad and then see where we are. so an in from me

UTC

His team wasnt sold, it was that he got to start with a full Premier League squad of which we were always going to lose some of the star players by the end of the window. Saying his team was sold the equivalent of saying Pope, Tarks, Collins, Mee, McNeill and Cornet were Kompanys team and he had his team sold from under him.

Parker had £30m - £40m to spend on top of some great players he inherited and by now we should be starting to see a team that looks capable of beating teams and challenging the top 2 but instead we look like a team that has no identity and doesn't seem to have a plan how to create chances and cause trouble in the opposition last third.

Kompany used his windfall from the star players he lost to bring people like Muric, Maatsen, Beyer, THB, Zaroury, Cullen, Tella and Benson whereas the players Parkers brought in look very ordinary for the money spent.

Parker needs to get his team performing because we have a squad capable of being one of the best in the division and for me the question mark is over the manager but Im happy to give him some time.

[beddie]

I still think we need to give him time but looking back I would have preferred appointing a European Manager, if only for his contacts with other players, anyway Parker and the team need supporting so let’s get behind them all and try in a small way to help them.

[NL Claret]

His team wasnt sold, it was that he got to start with a full Premier League squad of which we were always going to lose some of the star players by the end of the window. Saying his team was sold the equivalent of saying Pope, Tarks, Collins, Mee, McNeill and Cornet were Kompanys team and he had his team sold from under him.

Parker had £30m - £40m to spend on top of some great players he inherited and by now we should be starting to see a team that looks capable of beating teams and challenging the top 2 but instead we look like a team that has no identity and doesn't seem to have a plan how to create chances and cause trouble in the opposition last third.

Kompany used his windfall from the star players he lost to bring people like Muric, Maatsen, Beyer, THB, Zaroury, Cullen, Tella and Benson whereas the players Parkers brought in look very ordinary for the money spent.

Parker needs to get his team performing because we have a squad capable of being one of the best in the division and for me the question mark is over the manager but Im happy to give him some time.

I agree with a lot of that although the players who left were either out of contract or sold early in the window and not the last week of the window. Non of them played for us in the championship. Of the players who joined mentioned in the post , most were part of the first team squad for Huddersfield game.

[ClaretPete001]

His team wasnt sold, it was that he got to start with a full Premier League squad of which we were always going to lose some of the star players by the end of the window. Saying his team was sold the equivalent of saying Pope, Tarks, Collins, Mee, McNeill and Cornet were Kompanys team and he had his team sold from under him.

Parker had £30m - £40m to spend on top of some great players he inherited and by now we should be starting to see a team that looks capable of beating teams and challenging the top 2 but instead we look like a team that has no identity and doesn't seem to have a plan how to create chances and cause trouble in the opposition last third.

Kompany used his windfall from the star players he lost to bring people like Muric, Maatsen, Beyer, THB, Zaroury, Cullen, Tella and Benson whereas the players Parkers brought in look very ordinary for the money spent.

Parker needs to get his team performing because we have a squad capable of being one of the best in the division and for me the question mark is over the manager but Im happy to give him some time.

Most of this is true but substantively unfair. The big sell off happened to Parker after two league games and in the last week of the Window. Eur30 million of a Eur50 million spend was already spent by VK. Eur18 million was spent on a player that hasn't played.

The truth is VK had more time, more to spend and inherited a much better squad including 7 seasoned PL pros. The team behind him should have been looking at potential loans period to him joining because you can't get the likes of Tella and Maatsen with a couple of days of the Window left.

None of us know the truth but it looks like many of the selling decisions happened at the last minute.

Amdouni should not have been allowed to go on loan and if Churlinov and Obafemi are not good enough then that's Eur8 million VK spent on players not even of Championship quality.

The way Parker is playing is very clear and is similar to what he has played before what he is struggling with is injuries and poor performances from individuals.

I am not convinced Parker will turn it around but there are a lot of uncharitable comments made, which to my mind are unfair. If someone is ruthless enough to sack him then so be it but his compensation will be huge and we will then have to find another manager who may prove what some of us already suspect that this squad is seriously lacking in several areas and nowhere near as good as the one VK inherited.

It's the unfairness I object to more than the opinions on Parker.

[beddie]

Good post ClaretPete001 I couldn’t agree more.

[ClaretAL]

His team wasnt sold, it was that he got to start with a full Premier League squad of which we were always going to lose some of the star players by the end of the window. Saying his team was sold the equivalent of saying Pope, Tarks, Collins, Mee, McNeill and Cornet were Kompanys team and he had his team sold from under him.

Parker had £30m - £40m to spend on top of some great players he inherited and by now we should be starting to see a team that looks capable of beating teams and challenging the top 2 but instead we look like a team that has no identity and doesn't seem to have a plan how to create chances and cause trouble in the opposition last third.

Kompany used his windfall from the star players he lost to bring people like Muric, Maatsen, Beyer, THB, Zaroury, Cullen, Tella and Benson whereas the players Parkers brought in look very ordinary for the money spent.

Parker needs to get his team performing because we have a squad capable of being one of the best in the division and for me the question mark is over the manager but Im happy to give him some time.

I agree with this. You only have to read some of the threads on here to realise that there is a division happening now within the fan base whether you are in or out, and reality is there are pros and cons on both sides, i.e. pot him now and get someone in ready for January and also turn the fortunes around, or stay as we are and trust the manager has seen what we are all seeing and has a plant to change.

I prefer the latter just not sure how long the time given is though... Also we need to remember our sick bay has a hell of a lot of talent still to be shown, but I do understand every interview of the opposition manager, they always state how we have so much talent in our squad, so it must just need to shine.

[Goliath]

The players you have mentioned didn’t depart after a season. Heaton and Tarkowski were part of the fabric and stability of the club.

Dyche would do due diligence on a player beforehand and didn’t end up with a dressing room full of mercenaries.

I’m doubt you are getting my point so I’m not going to bother.

They weren't part of the fabric out of choice. Tarkowski clearly wanted to leave as soon as interest from bigger clubs came in, as did Keane and possibly Heaton too.
I fully understand your point I just think it's an old fashioned and naive view. If you want players that are going to stick around then the likelihood is that big clubs don't want them.

I'm not sure that's what we want at all.

[Jakubclaret]

They weren't part of the fabric out of choice. Tarkowski clearly wanted to leave as soon as interest from bigger clubs came in, as did Keane and possibly Heaton too.
I fully understand your point I just think it's an old fashioned and naive view. If you want players that are going to stick around then the likelihood is that big clubs don't want them.

I'm not sure that's what we want at all.

Tarks wanted to leave for yonks before he did not sure on the other 2. You'd be hard pressed to think of another example of somebody overstaying well past a point of straightforward intent.

[Hipper]

I agree with this. You only have to read some of the threads on here to realise that there is a division happening now within the fan base whether you are in or out, and reality is there are pros and cons on both sides, i.e. pot him now and get someone in ready for January and also turn the fortunes around, or stay as we are and trust the manager has seen what we are all seeing and has a plant to change.

I prefer the latter just not sure how long the time given is though... Also we need to remember our sick bay has a hell of a lot of talent still to be shown, but I do understand every interview of the opposition manager, they always state how we have so much talent in our squad, so it must just need to shine.

Our sick bay may have a lot of potential talent but it's difficult to know if it will materialise.

Foster for example, is a talent, but it seems his demons and general fitness will not allow us to see it. Beyer as a playmaker type player may be good but isn't he a long way off being available? Ekdal was good but this is not an area we are lacking. Delcroix - where is he? Then there's Tresor and Ramsey. What can they offer? We don't really know. Benson is clearly not being considered and didn't impress in his cameo against Blackburn and we haven't seen him since. Redmond?

The fact that Foster has offered little is a big disappointment, perhaps to the management too. Hountondji looks like he's got something but he's not there yet. Flemming, Rodriquez.... This is where our problem lies with Parker's set up.

It's difficult to know what another manager could do with what looks to me like mostly a bunch of average players without a lot of creativity or natural goalscorers.

[Devils_Advocate]

Most of this is true but substantively unfair. The big sell off happened to Parker after two league games and in the last week of the Window. Eur30 million of a Eur50 million spend was already spent by VK. Eur18 million was spent on a player that hasn't played.

But we should be including the money we have committed to paying for Humphries and Flemming so that is an additional £20m taking his spending up to £40m (Kompany spent about £45m)

The truth is VK had more time, more to spend and inherited a much better squad including 7 seasoned PL pros. The team behind him should have been looking at potential loans period to him joining because you can't get the likes of Tella and Maatsen with a couple of days of the Window left.

£37m out of the £75m happened the day before the first game of the season or later so Kompany didnt have loads of time to spend the money. In terms of the squad then once you discount the players lost Parkers is much stronger than what Kompany had. Kompany might have got some experience players but the squad he was left was an aging squad that needed completely refreshing and had to bring in a lot of youth whereas Parker has a lot more talent and has been able to add in some cheaper experienced players like Worral and Laurent to add to Roberts, Cullen, Brownhill and Rodriguez

None of us know the truth but it looks like many of the selling decisions happened at the last minute.

Give over, it was obvious that Berge was going to leave and that almost certain we'd lose O'Shea and at least one of the two wingers. On top of that Zaroury didnt want to play for us and Amdouni didnt want to drop to the Championship and JBG had already left once so Parker had plenty of time to be lining up targets and planning options for who to bring in. Vintinho was the only real surprise and as per the meltdown on here transfer week the big surprise was that we didnt lose additional players like Trafford, Koleosho, Benson and Foster

Amdouni should not have been allowed to go on loan and if Churlinov and Obafemi are not good enough then that's Eur8 million VK spent on players not even of Championship quality.

Amdouni was never staying and the Churlinov and Obafemi fees aren't relevant when Parker had £40m to spend on top of the players left. Kompany managed to do a complete rebuild on an aging and depleting squad for a few million more and stormed the league

Maybe what VK did was extraordinary and holding Parker to his standards are unfair but Parker inherited a quality squad alongside a large war chest to add to it and he's now had plenty of time to get that team performing.

Im not confident Parker will get it to click but I see no reason not to give him a chance and I actually think if he's a bit braver this team can do the business.

[Woonderbah]

Sacking SP would feel like a knee-jerk reaction but the level of unrest amongst supporters is clear to see.. and Pace wouldn't be blind to that.. it's now a test to see if SP can change that and play a quicker more attacking game.. sliding into mid-table obscurity is simlpy not an option.

[ClaretPete001]

But we should be including the money we have committed to paying for Humphries and Flemming so that is an additional £20m taking his spending up to £40m (Kompany spent about £45m)

£37m out of the £75m happened the day before the first game of the season or later so Kompany didnt have loads of time to spend the money. In terms of the squad then once you discount the players lost Parkers is much stronger than what Kompany had. Kompany might have got some experience players but the squad he was left was an aging squad that needed completely refreshing and had to bring in a lot of youth whereas Parker has a lot more talent and has been able to add in some cheaper experienced players like Worral and Laurent to add to Roberts, Cullen, Brownhill and Rodriguez

Give over, it was obvious that Berge was going to leave and that almost certain we'd lose O'Shea and at least one of the two wingers. On top of that Zaroury didnt want to play for us and Amdouni didnt want to drop to the Championship and JBG had already left once so Parker had plenty of time to be lining up targets and planning options for who to bring in. Vintinho was the only real surprise and as per the meltdown on here transfer week the big surprise was that we didnt lose additional players like Trafford, Koleosho, Benson and Foster

Amdouni was never staying and the Churlinov and Obafemi fees aren't relevant when Parker had £40m to spend on top of the players left. Kompany managed to do a complete rebuild on an aging and depleting squad for a few million more and stormed the league

Maybe what VK did was extraordinary and holding Parker to his standards are unfair but Parker inherited a quality squad alongside a large war chest to add to it and he's now had plenty of time to get that team performing.

Im not confident Parker will get it to click but I see no reason not to give him a chance and I actually think if he's a bit braver this team can do the business.

If you are going to include the money for Humphrey's and Flemming then you would also have to include the fees for Maatsen, Tella, THB and Beyer. Again, you are hardly being fair. Parker had a lot less money to spend and for whatever reason does not have the quality of loanees because for the most part VK had already spent Eur30 million.

I think you are away with the fairies regarding the quality of the squad. 32 year old Cork, Barnes, Jay Rod along with Taylor and JBG would transform this squad. VK also had Roberts and Brownhill available. Jay Rod netted 9 times before his injury and Brownhill was the best player in the Championship prior to Xmas.

Both Brownhill and Cullen never quite looked the same players once Cork had gone and both were dropped for periods in the PL.

You say '£37m out of the £75m happened the day before the first game of the season'. I don't know who that pertains to I can only remember Mc Neil being quite late but that's not two weeks into the season. None of us actually know how much influence each manager has on transfers.

Parker had £40 million to spend? Again I'm not sure that is true. VK benefited from the bulk of a PL first team and some extra ordinary loan signings. Once those were gone he performed very poorly.

Overall, I think you are being somewhat unfair in your analysis of VK, the quality of the squads and the lack of firepower in the current squad. I agree he is too cautious but I think you are exaggerating the negatives.

[NewClaret]

Sacking SP would feel like a knee-jerk reaction but the level of unrest amongst supporters is clear to see.. and Pace wouldn't be blind to that.. it's now a test to see if SP can change that and play a quicker more attacking game.. sliding into mid-table obscurity is simlpy not an option.

I agree that Pace will be considering the fan unrest. When you go from being a quite high chance creating team at a higher level, to one that is barely testing the opposition keeper game after game, it’s going to divide the fans and I think Pace will be asking whether it can be turned around or whether there’s a more fundamental issue in the play style that forced Brugge to make the changes they did so quickly.

That said, I imagine Pace is also reflecting on the massive reduction in squad quality that he oversaw himself in summer, and also the opinions of the players who seem to enjoy working with Parker. If he feels the players still back him I doubt he’ll care too much about the fans because they’re not the ones that go out on the pitch.

It’s a tough one to call, on the one hand I don’t think he’ll want to do anything rash, and on the other I think he’ll have more pressure to be decisive than previously - having arguably graced previous managers too much time when things have been going wrong.

[NewClaret]

Sacking SP would feel like a knee-jerk reaction but the level of unrest amongst supporters is clear to see.. and Pace wouldn't be blind to that.. it's now a test to see if SP can change that and play a quicker more attacking game.. sliding into mid-table obscurity is simlpy not an option.

It would definitely be knee jerk and probably not very good decision if, like me, you don’t want the club to become a Watford.

One thing on my mind is whether there was a close second in the race that he might have in mind if things don’t improve though.

[Ampth7]

In terms of current league position he stays, but performances have been really poor recently and yesterday I genuinely think we could have played that game until Christmas and still not scored! Did we even have a shot on target?

For me, he’s got to bin the current 3 in midfield approach and instead play Flemming in the 10, because at the moment we have zero creativity in midfield.

In fairness to him, he has not been helped with the injuries we’ve got, but tactically, that’s on him and let’s be honest performances have all been a bit meh at the moment.

[JimmyRobbo]

Ah. You’ve played the old ‘if you don’t have the same opinion as me then you don’t really understand football’ card.

So wanting somebody out after 10 games is a 'new' ?

Do you even know what you're saying? Wht is your point, that I've made a comment? Thank you for the recognition.

You've played the old, "You've played the old you have a different opinion so you don't understand football card" card.

Yawnfest.

[JimmyRobbo]

Luton game we still had a very strong squad before selling them off Cardiff outplayed us for 45 minutes how won 5 zip I still don’t know have we actually put in a good 90 mins display yet?? I can’t recall one

We pretty much agree.

[Jakubs Tash]

So wanting somebody out after 10 games is a 'new' ?

Do you even know what you're saying? Wht is your point, that I've made a comment? Thank you for the recognition.

You've played the old, "You've played the old you have a different opinion so you don't understand football card" card.

Yawnfest.

Yawnfest?? Haha

Parker has had 12 league games to date (not 10). Luton away was very good. Since then, it’s been like watching the same game over and over again. Boring, uninspiring, insipid and uneventful tosh.

That’s my opinion. I’m allowed one. Just like you are. Just I don’t go around on a message board telling other fans they don’t understand football just because they have a different opinion to me.

There are worse teams in this league with far lower budgets and they are meant to have inferior managers but they play with heart, desire and a game plan to try and win football matches (this actually includes having a shot at goal). Our manager seems to tell his players that the aim of the game is aimless possession. Even with all the injuries we currently have, there are many managers at this level that would get far more out of the current fit players that Burnley have.

Nobody can seriously be enjoying watching us every week at the moment. We all know exactly how the game is going to go.

[Devils_Advocate]

If you are going to include the money for Humphrey's and Flemming then you would also have to include the fees for Maatsen, Tella, THB and Beyer. Again, you are hardly being fair. Parker had a lot less money to spend and for whatever reason does not have the quality of loanees because for the most part VK had already spent Eur30 million.

Nope Tella and co were loan signings in the same way Anthony and Sarmento are. I referenced Flemming and Humphries as you seemed to imply the £30-£40m I originally mentioned inluded Esteve and Tresor when I didnt include them as Parker signings. Parker didnt have a lot less money to spend but my original post wasnt trying to compare Parker and Kompany but was more stating Parker did't have his team sold from under him and rather than been dealt a bad hand he's inherited a good squad with money to spend

I think you are away with the fairies regarding the quality of the squad. 32 year old Cork, Barnes, Jay Rod along with Taylor and JBG would transform this squad. VK also had Roberts and Brownhill available. Jay Rod netted 9 times before his injury and Brownhill was the best player in the Championship prior to Xmas.

Id rather have Esteve over Taylor, Cullen over Cork (Cullen was better than him 2 years ago) and have Trafford as a goalkeeper over Peacock-Farrell. Koleosho is different but as good as JBG (stared only half the games) and if Kompany was managing Koleosho he'd be nearer the £30m player Wolves were after. Barnes looked well off the pace and id credit Kompany for turning his season around. Foster has a lot to prove and Id agree upfront is probably the only area where Kompany was better off

Both Brownhill and Cullen never quite looked the same players once Cork had gone and both were dropped for periods in the PL.

You're having a laugh with this one as Cork barely started the second half of the season when we were at our best and Cullen was the player of the year. Yes Cullen struggled with the step up but Cork was struggling at that level two years earlier.

You say '£37m out of the £75m happened the day before the first game of the season'. I don't know who that pertains to I can only remember Mc Neil being quite late but that's not two weeks into the season. None of us actually know how much influence each manager has on transfers.

We only got decent money for four players with McNeill going the day before the season started and Cornet going a week into the season. This summer we got money for Muric 6 weeks before the window shut and with 9 days still to go till the window shut we'd pulled in £70m from transfers so this idea Parker didnt have time to find replacements is rubbish. The fact that the season had started totally excuses the performances against Sunderland and Blackburn but nothing more.

Parker had £40 million to spend? Again I'm not sure that is true. VK benefited from the bulk of a PL first team and some extra ordinary loan signings. Once those were gone he performed very poorly.

You've based your figures on transfermarket numbers and based on that we have spent £40m. It might be overstated but only to the same extent the Kompanys signings fees would be. As per the loans you're arguing my point for me. What Kompany did with those loans is to his credit and shows what can be done in a short space of time. I wont fully judge just yet but Parker's loans havent quite hit the mark and thats on him

Overall, I think you are being somewhat unfair in your analysis of VK, the quality of the squads and the lack of firepower in the current squad. I agree he is too cautious but I think you are exaggerating the negatives.

Finally despite all Ive posted in response to your points my actual argument is not about comparing Kompany to Parker and arguing about who's best. My main point is that Parker did not have his team sold from under him, was not dealt a bad hand, has inherited a very good squad of players for this level and was given around £40m to spend.

The notion that Parker has had it tough (Sunderland match excluded) is laughable and as I've stated previously the majority of Championship managers can only dream of being given the plethora of talent and money that Parker has had at his disposal

[elwaclaret]

In. He has made us solid next few weeks he has to find a way of making us offensive. I’m a big believer in you build a team from solidity, now the challenge is for him to make us dynamic and aggressive. The clock is now ticking for him to start showing he can do this. By Christmas we need to be terrifying the opposition with the various threats we offer, and making it virtually impossible for the opposition to set out a game plan to contain us.

[ClaretPete001]

Nope Tella and co were loan signings in the same way Anthony and Sarmento are. I referenced Flemming and Humphries as you seemed to imply the £30-£40m I originally mentioned inluded Esteve and Tresor when I didnt include them as Parker signings. Parker didnt have a lot less money to spend but my original post wasnt trying to compare Parker and Kompany but was more stating Parker did't have his team sold from under him and rather than been dealt a bad hand he's inherited a good squad with money to spend



Id rather have Esteve over Taylor, Cullen over Cork (Cullen was better than him 2 years ago) and have Trafford as a goalkeeper over Peacock-Farrell. Koleosho is different but as good as JBG (stared only half the games) and if Kompany was managing Koleosho he'd be nearer the £30m player Wolves were after. Barnes looked well off the pace and id credit Kompany for turning his season around. Foster has a lot to prove and Id agree upfront is probably the only area where Kompany was better off


You're having a laugh with this one as Cork barely started the second half of the season when we were at our best and Cullen was the player of the year. Yes Cullen struggled with the step up but Cork was struggling at that level two years earlier.


We only got decent money for four players with McNeill going the day before the season started and Cornet going a week into the season. This summer we got money for Muric 6 weeks before the window shut and with 9 days still to go till the window shut we'd pulled in £70m from transfers so this idea Parker didnt have time to find replacements is rubbish. The fact that the season had started totally excuses the performances against Sunderland and Blackburn but nothing more.


You've based your figures on transfermarket numbers and based on that we have spent £40m. It might be overstated but only to the same extent the Kompanys signings fees would be. As per the loans you're arguing my point for me. What Kompany did with those loans is to his credit and shows what can be done in a short space of time. I wont fully judge just yet but Parker's loans havent quite hit the mark and thats on him


Finally despite all Ive posted in response to your points my actual argument is not about comparing Kompany to Parker and arguing about who's best. My main point is that Parker did not have his team sold from under him, was not dealt a bad hand, has inherited a very good squad of players for this level and was given around £40m to spend.

The notion that Parker has had it tough (Sunderland match excluded) is laughable and as I've stated previously the majority of Championship managers can only dream of being given the plethora of talent and money that Parker has had at his disposal

At the end of the day there are opinions and facts. Cork was an established PL player Cullen isn't. Barnes career wasn't resurrected by VK - it was because he was in the Championship. JBG was an established PL player Anthony and Kolosheo are not. JBG would be in my team ahead of both of them on current form.

Taylor is a Left Back so your comparison with Esteve is not reasonable. He played 28 games in the PL last season after initially not being picked. He would be in my team ahead of Pires or Humphreys. And Cork wasn't struggling in the PL, SD refused to pick him. In my and many others opinions that is one of the biggest reasons we got relegated. Finally, VK had experienced players who had done it at the highest level Parker does not have that luxury. It's an important point.

And he did not have Eur40 million to spend we spent Eur20 million; the other Eur30 million was spent by VK. I use transfermarket to avoid just making stuff up. Humphreys and Flemming are on loan as were Tella et al, the semantics of the contract are not really the issue here. VK had better quality loan signings we all know that...!

If your point is not to compare Parker with VK then don't...! Parker has had the team sold under him and he has had some money to spend but the squad is a mish mash and we are lacking up front.

Anyway we'll have to agree to disagree and perhaps mostly agree again only a fool wouldn't be concerned at this point both in Parker's ability to mould the squad and the quality of the players available to him.

[Devils_Advocate]

At the end of the day there are opinions and facts. Cork was an established PL player Cullen isn't. Barnes career wasn't resurrected by VK - it was because he was in the Championship. JBG was an established PL player Anthony and Kolosheo are not. JBG would be in my team ahead of both of them on current form.

Taylor is a Left Back so your comparison with Esteve is not reasonable. He played 28 games in the PL last season after initially not being picked. He would be in my team ahead of Pires or Humphreys. And Cork wasn't struggling in the PL, SD refused to pick him. In my and many others opinions that is one of the biggest reasons we got relegated. Finally, VK had experienced players who had done it at the highest level Parker does not have that luxury. It's an important point.

And he did not have Eur40 million to spend we spent Eur20 million; the other Eur30 million was spent by VK. I use transfermarket to avoid just making stuff up. Humphreys and Flemming are on loan as were Tella et al, the semantics of the contract are not really the issue here. VK had better quality loan signings we all know that...!

If your point is not to compare Parker with VK then don't...! Parker has had the team sold under him and he has had some money to spend but the squad is a mish mash and we are lacking up front.

Anyway we'll have to agree to disagree and perhaps mostly agree again only a fool wouldn't be concerned at this point both in Parker's ability to mould the squad and the quality of the players available to him.

Fair enough, disagree on a few points but like you sat its all about opinions and like arseholes everyone's got one

[ClaretPete001]

Fair enough, disagree on a few points but like you sat its all about opinions and like arseholes everyone's got one

A point, which is both factual and incontrovertible.

[JimmyRobbo]

That’s my opinion. I’m allowed one. Just like you are. Just I don’t go around on a message board telling other fans they don’t understand football just because they have a different opinion to me.

I'm not denying you your opinion.

Opinions can be wrong.

I;m not saying I'm enjoying our current run. I'm saying to suggest sacking him is pathetic. It shows a clear misunderatanding of many thinngs in life. This is a football forum and in football context, it's pathetic to suggest sacking him. That's my opinion. It may be wrong but it isn't (at this stage).

[mickleoverclaret]

In. He has made us solid next few weeks he has to find a way of making us offensive. I’m a big believer in you build a team from solidity, now the challenge is for him to make us dynamic and aggressive. The clock is now ticking for him to start showing he can do this. By Christmas we need to be terrifying the opposition with the various threats we offer, and making it virtually impossible for the opposition to set out a game plan to contain us.

Unfortunately from what we've seen so far and from what we were told by fans of his previous clubs, i'm not convinced he has any interest in making us dynamic, aggressive or offensive.

[burnleymik]

It is concerning that the fans of all his previous clubs are being proven correct. They all said the same thing and unfortunately it is coming to fruition. If this is all he knows and thinks it's a winning formula then I don't see him making any major changes. We have talent, we have experience, in theory we should be blowing away some of these teams we have struggled to have a shot against and that is of concern.

[elwaclaret]

Unfortunately from what we've seen so far and from what we were told by fans of his previous clubs, i'm not convinced he has any interest in making us dynamic, aggressive or offensive.

Nor am I, but I’m happy to see if he can change my mind and allow him the time to try and do so.

[Jakubs Tash]

I'm not denying you your opinion.

Opinions can be wrong.

I;m not saying I'm enjoying our current run. I'm saying to suggest sacking him is pathetic. It shows a clear misunderatanding of many thinngs in life. This is a football forum and in football context, it's pathetic to suggest sacking him. That's my opinion. It may be wrong but it isn't (at this stage).

I’ve never been as bored watching Burnley as I am under this manager.

Dyche got some pelters but when Arfield and Boyd played out wide they at least had some form of technical ability and devil on their play even if they were lacking pace. And that man anger would invariably play two up front and give the opposition something to think about it.

This manager is showing no signs of trying anything different. He just keeps changing a midfielder and his left back over. He doesn’t even switch his wingers over for twenty minutes during a game to change things up when it’s stale (like it quickly becomes). He doesn’t have the bottle to play two up front and have a bit of a go.

By the time it gets to mid December I think there’s a good chance we’ll be too far behind and it’s not like things are going to click and everything fall into place and we’re going to start scoring lots of goals when we have such a negative manager in charge.

Parker is sucking the life out of this club.

[ClaretAL]

I was talking to a guy at work yesterday who was asking what had happened to us as he had watched the match on TV, I explained the unrest and all the things we have discussed over the last few weeks and the fans are now becoming divided on the manager, although he needs more time. The guy I was discussing this with is genuine football fan anorak type rather than a single club fan, and he pointed out that he had seen a similar situation with SP at Brugge and it was SP that walked away in the end by mutual consent after 12 or so games, and as we took so long to appoint SP it could be fair to say the offerings of a replacement may not be forth coming, so be careful what you wish for, or you could end up managerless and freefall down the league. food for thought I think.

[Clive 1960]

personally think that he will be given until the end of the season and i hope he can
get a couple of quality striker's in January to help the cause because we are struggling up top...

[mickleoverclaret]

Nor am I, but I’m happy to see if he can change my mind and allow him the time to try and do so.

I'm inclined to agree- i'd give him a season at least. If we manage to bore our way to promotion, so much the better!

[Dark Cloud]

A few weeks ago I genuinely believed we could quite easily "bore our way to promotion" and if we do that I'm happy enough. The problem is in the past couple of weeks it looks like we might more easily bore our way to mid table mediocrity and that's really starting to worry me. I don't necessarily think that's all down to Parker as after the "flash sale" I'm not convinced the hastily brought in replacements are of the same quality and that's not his fault, but it's a manager's job to get the best out of what he's working with. Changing manager now would be daft and almost certainly torpedo any promotion push for the current season. Parker wouldn't have been my first choice, but he's here and in order to give promotion our best shot I think he's got to have the whole season before we think about turning everything on its head again by pulling the trigger (imo).

[burnley007]

Alan Pace is awfully quiet atm.

I wonder what he's thinking

[dsr]

personally think that he will be given until the end of the season and i hope he can
get a couple of quality striker's in January to help the cause because we are struggling up top...

But what would he do with two strikers?

[colner]

Think he will be given the season unless we drop like a stone. Surely Mr Pace can see it aint great at the min,if theres fan unrest and attendances drop,that could be the catalyst for the bullet before the seasons out

[GetIntoEm]

Alan Pace is awfully quiet atm.

I wonder what he's thinking

do you normally hear from him? other than the program notes? what do you want him to say?

we always come back to this comment, nonsense.

[Casper2]

If only someone had made two documentaries around him giving him a platform to spout bullshit

[burnley007]

Alan Pace is awfully quiet atm.

I wonder what he's thinking

My comment was more about what he must be thinking behind the scenes, he must be very aware of the unrest that is building among fans.

One of his core objectives is to sell the club around the world, to build our brand globally. Scott Parker is almost certainly the worst choice to help spread the brand. The brand isn't even popular in Burnley at the minute!

[Silkyskills1]

A few weeks ago I genuinely believed we could quite easily "bore our way to promotion" and if we do that I'm happy enough. The problem is in the past couple of weeks it looks like we might more easily bore our way to mid table mediocrity and that's really starting to worry me.

Mid table mediocrity seems like light at the end of the tunnel to me at the moment. Unable to beat sides with 10 men, unable to beat sides at the bottom of the league table, unable to muster attempts on goal. This is now what we are. Mercenaries and players not overkeen on being here and a manager ill- equipped to bring about changes. Yes, I'm certainly settling for mid table obscurity as a possibility. Only problem is that is going to require around another 35 points to achieve. About a point per game. That should keep the dwindling numbers entertained.

[JimmyRobbo]

I’ve never been as bored watching Burnley as I am under this manager.

Dyche got some pelters but when Arfield and Boyd played out wide they at least had some form of technical ability and devil on their play even if they were lacking pace. And that man anger would invariably play two up front and give the opposition something to think about it.

This manager is showing no signs of trying anything different. He just keeps changing a midfielder and his left back over. He doesn’t even switch his wingers over for twenty minutes during a game to change things up when it’s stale (like it quickly becomes). He doesn’t have the bottle to play two up front and have a bit of a go.

By the time it gets to mid December I think there’s a good chance we’ll be too far behind and it’s not like things are going to click and everything fall into place and we’re going to start scoring lots of goals when we have such a negative manager in charge.

Parker is sucking the life out of this club.

Some good comments that I kind of agree with. My issue is that we committed to a manager and we shouldn't be considering his employment status so quickly.

Falling down the table could actually be to our benefit in the long run. I'm sure the recruitment team know they need options in January. Look at the chase for Conway in August.

I'll give him time but I watched us in Div 4 so might have more patience than some on here.

[123EasyasBFC]

I’ve never been as bored watching Burnley as I am under this manager.

Dyche got some pelters but when Arfield and Boyd played out wide they at least had some form of technical ability and devil on their play even if they were lacking pace. And that man anger would invariably play two up front and give the opposition something to think about it.

This manager is showing no signs of trying anything different. He just keeps changing a midfielder and his left back over. He doesn’t even switch his wingers over for twenty minutes during a game to change things up when it’s stale (like it quickly becomes). He doesn’t have the bottle to play two up front and have a bit of a go.

By the time it gets to mid December I think there’s a good chance we’ll be too far behind and it’s not like things are going to click and everything fall into place and we’re going to start scoring lots of goals when we have such a negative manager in charge.

Parker is sucking the life out of this club.

I wouldn’t say it’s solely Parker sucking the life out of the club, all comes down to the ownership and the many backwards decisions they make, to the price of food in the ground to the silly membership scheme where you can have a B branded cap

The board or should we say Alan Pace were completely besotyed by kompany and the way he spoke that they allowed him to p*ss away a season in the prem and all the money that goes with it and they have been left cleaning up his mess and between the recruitment team have left another unbalanced incomplete squad for Parker to work with.

I standby the fact the board got lucky in 22/23 that the players kompany brought in clicked straight and were to good for the league at the time because other then that season, every season under the new owners has been a slog

[MT03ALG]

Needs a good shake up. Shake it all about.

[beeholeclaret]

Parker out.

People who brought him in and then sold half of his squad - also OUT!

How would you have dealt with all the players and their agents then when it became apparent they wanted to leave to play at a higher level? Just interested in your thoughts?