Crypto, love it or hate it

[bfcjg]

Article I read this morning, I'm not sure I'd be happy to see my pension invested accordingly but perhaps I'm just over cautious.
UK pension scheme called 'deeply irresponsible' after investing in Bitcoin
A UK pension scheme has been called "deeply irresponsible" after investing in Bitcoin.

The unnamed defined-benefit scheme became the first in the UK to make the plunge, using 3% of its assets to buy into the cryptocurrency last month.

Pension specialist Cartwright acted as an adviser to the scheme and said the allocation was a "strategic move that, not only offers diversification but also taps into an asset class with a unique asymmetric risk-return profile".

It claimed its approach meant the scheme could benefit from a significant potential bonus, while limiting the possible negative outcomes.

But some experts seem less enthusiastic about the decision, warning it bordered on "gambling with retirees' futures".


Bitcoin is a digital form of money
Reuters

"This is a very strange decision. Pension funds should surely be investing for the long term rather than speculating over the short-term," Colin Low, managing director at Kingsfleet, told Newspage.

"It is ironic that a pension fund, having one of the longest investment time horizons, should speculate its beneficiaries' assets on something that has no intrinsic value."

Daniel Wiltshire, actuary at Wiltshire Wealth, added: "This is deeply irresponsible. Pension trustees have an obligation to ensure scheme assets are managed prudently.

"This precludes taking punts on a basketcase asset class like crypto. For the sake of the members, I hope the regulator is paying attention."

Why are people so concerned about the move?

Bitcoin is the largest and oldest cryptocurrency, although other assets like ethereum, tether and dogecoin have also gained popularity over the years.

Some investors see cryptocurrency as a "digital alternative" to traditional money - but it is very volatile, with its price reliant on larger market conditions.

Pension scheme trustees tend to be against taking big risks with retirees' funds.

Advice from the Financial Conduct Authority states "you should never invest money into crypto that you can't afford to lose" and warns people to be prepared to lose all their money.

And, while a 3% allocation doesn't sound like a lot, it's enough to make an impact on the pension fund's performance.

This means that if Bitcoin continues to skyrocket, it could boost the scheme in a big way, but equally if it sinks, it could have a significant negative impact.

As a defined pension scheme, it does mean the risk is being taken by the employer should there not be enough assets to meet future pension payments, rather than being borne by members.

Head of investment analysis at AJ Bell, Laith Khalaf, says plenty of people have bought crypto personally, but it's harder to make the case for investing in it to diversify a pension portfolio.

"While the price of Bitcoin is currently riding high, in the past we've seen strong performance quickly giving way to dramatic price falls. That in itself is a big hindrance to Bitcoin being adopted by consumers and businesses as a means of exchange," he says.

"If you think Bitcoin is the future of currency despite its volatility, ask yourself if you'd be willing to be paid by your employer or billed by your mortgage provider in the cryptocurrency.

"It's possible Bitcoin will thrive and prove its doubters wrong, but it's also possible it will ultimately become worthless."

Just last week, it hit a record high above $£99,000 - but less than two years before that it dropped below $17,000 following the collapse of crypto exchange FTX.


Some experts believe the potential pay-off means an investment in Bitcoin is a risk worth taking.

Chris Barry, a director of Thomas Legal, says that anything less than a 5% allocation is "sensible", and UK pension funds need to catch up to their US equivalents who have been investing in crypto for years.

"Bitcoin is the top performing asset class over the past 10 years on average, even beating the NASDAQ. The direction of travel following Trump winning the US election is very bullish indeed," he adds.

David Belle, founder and trader at Fink Money, has a similar view, saying a pension scheme portfolio is about numbers trying to deliver a return.

"A portfolio is just numbers made up of different betas, assets which either outperform or underperform a benchmark. Crypto is a fine asset class if it fits risk appetite."

[KateR]

I recently had someone wanting to 'buy' some of my photos as NFT's. I really don't understand all this lot so politely declined the offer, whether this is a mistake or not I'm not sure, I just don't want to have my keks pulled down in a scam.

I don't think I'll ever grasp all this and paying some 'gas' fee, whatever that is!!

gas fee, is just a fee to send crypto from one place to another, or to exchange your crypto to another crypto or cash. You know exactly what banks/Western Union, etc. have been doing for hundreds of years, it's normal financial business, same as if you use a broker for shares, they don't do it for free! The crypto type language is strange though, I'll give you that.

[KateR]

Some of us take the risk in crypto, many of you don't, it's just down to simple personal decision making, more and more companies are buying Bitcoin on to their balance sheets, there's a good reason for that.

[Bosscat]

Emmerdale running a Crypto storyline .......

[ClaretPete001]

Some of us take the risk in crypto, many of you don't, it's just down to simple personal decision making, more and more companies are buying Bitcoin on to their balance sheets, there's a good reason for that.

All kinds of people buy into all kinds of scams. People bought into .DotCom before it burst. The banks were selling each other bad debt wrapped up as 'super clever investment instruments' before the 2008 crash. We all bailed them out.

The smart money and the big money will take the profits and crash the whole thing and everyone else will be blubbing into their rice Krispies about how unfair everything is and expecting minimum wage saps to bail them out with their taxes.....!

Except you Kate obviously who no doubt will get out with the smart money.

[Hedontplayforyou]

XRP still on the rise. Hope this is a sign of things to come

[KateR]

XRP still on the rise. Hope this is a sign of things to come

It's a slow burn, I expect when the new US administration starts, it will move upwards, but then again, I expect the majority of crypto to move upwards in 2025.

[KateR]

All kinds of people buy into all kinds of scams. People bought into .DotCom before it burst. The banks were selling each other bad debt wrapped up as 'super clever investment instruments' before the 2008 crash. We all bailed them out.

The smart money and the big money will take the profits and crash the whole thing and everyone else will be blubbing into their rice Krispies about how unfair everything is and expecting minimum wage saps to bail them out with their taxes.....!

Except you Kate obviously who no doubt will get out with the smart money.

you actually sound like someone from 12/14 years ago, you really should try to catch up, I'm sure all those people buying Google/Amazon/Mircrosoft/ and so many others in the Dot.Com bubble are really crying a lot these days, but you just keep on keeping your money under a mattress, it'll be safe there.

[Hedontplayforyou]

It's a slow burn, I expect when the new US administration starts, it will move upwards, but then again, I expect the majority of crypto to move upwards in 2025.

Why do you expect it all to move upwards? I see XRP is slowing moving towards £2 now.

[hoosier-daddy]

Why do you expect it all to move upwards? I see XRP is slowing moving towards £2 now.

Because people are getting with it. People are 10 years behind the curve.

[hoosier-daddy]

you actually sound like someone from 12/14 years ago, you really should try to catch up, I'm sure all those people buying Google/Amazon/Mircrosoft/ and so many others in the Dot.Com bubble are really crying a lot these days, but you just keep on keeping your money under a mattress, it'll be safe there.

Thoughts on memecoins? I'm being offered a lot for 20 minutes promotion but not sure people are making that much from it.

[hoosier-daddy]

Why do you expect it all to move upwards? I see XRP is slowing moving towards £2 now.

On the same plan mate. I just throw money at it when people pay me.

[alboclaret]

Been watching a while.

Got in for fist time on xrp earlier this month on the news and potential with trump as pres.

Been a great wkend. Great start see where it goes. Low stakes , will keep adding and looking at long term rippe effect.

[ClaretnGreen]

No nay never ever for me.
I dare say some people will get rich, but still not for me.

[hoosier-daddy]

No nay never ever for me.
I dare say some people will get rich, but still not for me.

Can't go wrong with BTC and ETH. The Bull run is here.

[KateR]

Thoughts on memecoins? I'm being offered a lot for 20 minutes promotion but not sure people are making that much from it.

meme coins, are just a gamble, and it's really all about when you buy, I have two, both bought at low prices, both in the green, both I'll sell in 2025, memes are all hype and it's whether they capture the crypto community attention and people buy. Some people have got very rich/wealthy off DOGE & SHIB for example, but they bought super low and probably paid a lot more than I'd be willing to risk, but that's just me

[hoosier-daddy]

meme coins, are just a gamble, and it's really all about when you buy, I have two, both bought at low prices, both in the green, both I'll sell in 2025, memes are all hype and it's whether they capture the crypto community attention and people buy. Some people have got very rich/wealthy off DOGE & SHIB for example, but they bought super low and probably paid a lot more than I'd be willing to risk, but that's just me

They are pretty much always low, so no problem there. People create the coin and ask me to promote it - then sell. I'm earning more with the promotion than the actual coin itself. A crazy world we live in.

[KateR]

Why do you expect it all to move upwards? I see XRP is slowing moving towards £2 now.

because I expect several surges as the new administration make announcements favorable to crypto, XRP being a main one, court cases dropped, regulatory relaxation, etc. Another one is CRO, they are in dispute with the SEC, they filed a lawsuit against the SEC, but they announced on election day a new Roadmap for 2025, this will have a significant impact on US users if they implement the Exchange being available, which will only happen with relaxed and clear regulatory frameworks.

[hoosier-daddy]

because I expect several surges as the new administration make announcements favorable to crypto, XRP being a main one, court cases dropped, regulatory relaxation, etc. Another one is CRO, they are in dispute with the SEC, they filed a lawsuit against the SEC, but they announced on election day a new Roadmap for 2025, this will have a significant impact on US users if they implement the Exchange being available, which will only happen with relaxed and clear regulatory frameworks.

XRP is finally making a profit after all these years. The chances are anywhere $3-$5 very soon.

[KateR]

XRP is finally making a profit after all these years. The chances are anywhere $3-$5 very soon.

335% increase in a month for XRP, comparable to HBAR which is almost exactly the same in price increase for a month, now depends on how many sell after waiting all this time, as to whether it depresses price somewhat before next upturn. Definitely lots of opportunities still for many to make the same and more, as this Bull Market starts to roll.

[Hedontplayforyou]

So do you expect XRP price to drop again soon? Or continue to rise?

[hoosier-daddy]

So do you expect XRP price to drop again soon? Or continue to rise?

Rise.

[Hedontplayforyou]

Rise.

I’m trying to get my head in to it more as I invested a bit of spare cash in it a few years ago. Now I’m seeing this hike it’s obviously drawn my attention and I’m intrigued to see how high this could eventually reach?

Any opinions?

[Dyched]

How would one buy into something like this? Not talking alot. Just something for fun.

[hoosier-daddy]

I’m trying to get my head in to it more as I invested a bit of spare cash in it a few years ago. Now I’m seeing this hike it’s obviously drawn my attention and I’m intrigued to see how high this could eventually reach?

Any opinions?

My thoughts is only ever put money into this if you are happy to lose it. I work with finance and marketing every day and I read what companies are about to do. That can change the Crypto market. What myself and Kate say is never gospel, as we can't see the future so just treat it as a bit of fun.

[hoosier-daddy]

How would one buy into something like this? Not talking alot. Just something for fun.

Go to a website such as blockchain and sign up.

[Hedontplayforyou]

My thoughts is only ever put money into this if you are happy to lose it. I work with finance and marketing every day and I read what companies are about to do. That can change the Crypto market. What myself and Kate say is never gospel, as we can't see the future so just treat it as a bit of fun.

I understand that and I don’t see myself investing anymore money but would like to get the max out of my current investments as would anybody else of course .

I just remember when I first put little
Bits in that XRP was one that people were excited by for some serious gains. Is this the time and how high can it go is the question on everyone’s lips I guess .

[dsr]

As long as there are more buyers than sellers, the price will go up, and the reason there are more buyers than sellers is because they expect the price to go up. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. There are probably still loads of people with cash who believe the price will continue to go up, so it probably will.

But it works in reverse as well. And when the time comes that there are more sellers than buyers, the price drops. And if it so happens that the price drops so much that it panics the market, then there is a crash - and as cryptocurrency has no underlying assets, the crash could be all the way down to zero.

[hoosier-daddy]

As long as there are more buyers than sellers, the price will go up, and the reason there are more buyers than sellers is because they expect the price to go up. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. There are probably still loads of people with cash who believe the price will continue to go up, so it probably will.

But it works in reverse as well. And when the time comes that there are more sellers than buyers, the price drops. And if it so happens that the price drops so much that it panics the market, then there is a crash - and as cryptocurrency has no underlying assets, the crash could be all the way down to zero.

It's down to news, governments, technology, economics. You read the news and you see a crash well before it happens.

[bfcmatt]

How would one buy into something like this? Not talking alot. Just something for fun.

coinbase is half decent and very easy to use.

[Hedontplayforyou]

It's down to news, governments, technology, economics. You read the news and you see a crash well before it happens.

Just been having a read about XRP, a stablecoin potentially being confirmed as early as Wednesday this week?

[hoosier-daddy]

Just been having a read about XRP, a stablecoin potentially being confirmed as early as Wednesday this week?

XRP is not a stablecoin itself. It's behind Ripple the company behind it. It's all up in the air mate.

[Hedontplayforyou]

XRP is not a stablecoin itself. It's behind Ripple the company behind it. It's all up in the air mate.

Yes XRP is what they call the native coin I believe ? ( look at me go) but the platform as you say Ripple is possibly set to announce a stablecoin very soon.

Interesting

[Bosscat]

Ripple is possibly set to announce a stablecoin very soon.

Is this aimed at Rovers fans

[hoosier-daddy]

Bossman, get yourself involved, happy to give advice.

[Bosscat]

Bossman, get yourself involved, happy to give advice.

Nah your all right I am happy with mine invested where it is ...

[hoosier-daddy]

Nah your all right I am happy with mine invested where it is ...

[Firthy]

I really don't understand how bitcoin works. Can someome explain in simple language what it it is, how it works and why is it worth so much. Surely it's just digits on a computer and nothing tangeable.

[hoosier-daddy]

I really don't understand how bitcoin works. Can someome explain in simple language what it it is, how it works and why is it worth so much. Surely it's just digits on a computer and nothing tangeable.

Well they aren't a financial asset so they lack physical substance so no lol.

[apc1956]

hoosier-daddy
Re: Crypto, love it or hate it
Unread post Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:41 pm

dsr wrote: ↑
As long as there are more buyers than sellers, the price will go up, and the reason there are more buyers than sellers is because they expect the price to go up. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. There are probably still loads of people with cash who believe the price will continue to go up, so it probably will.

But it works in reverse as well. And when the time comes that there are more sellers than buyers, the price drops. And if it so happens that the price drops so much that it panics the market, then there is a crash - and as cryptocurrency has no underlying assets, the crash could be all the way down to zero.
It's down to news, governments, technology, economics. You read the news and you see a crash well before it happens


If you think you can see a crash well before it happens then you have more financial insight than nearly everyone working professionally in the financial markets

[hoosier-daddy]

hoosier-daddy
Re: Crypto, love it or hate it
Unread post Mon Dec 02, 2024 3:41 pm

dsr wrote: ↑
As long as there are more buyers than sellers, the price will go up, and the reason there are more buyers than sellers is because they expect the price to go up. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. There are probably still loads of people with cash who believe the price will continue to go up, so it probably will.

But it works in reverse as well. And when the time comes that there are more sellers than buyers, the price drops. And if it so happens that the price drops so much that it panics the market, then there is a crash - and as cryptocurrency has no underlying assets, the crash could be all the way down to zero.
It's down to news, governments, technology, economics. You read the news and you see a crash well before it happens


If you think you can see a crash well before it happens then you have more financial insight than nearly everyone working professionally in the financial markets

You can discuss and chat with people. You must know how that works.

[Goliath]

I really don't understand how bitcoin works. Can someome explain in simple language what it it is, how it works and why is it worth so much. Surely it's just digits on a computer and nothing tangeable.

Like most money these days

[Loyalclaret]

They are pretty much always low, so no problem there. People create the coin and ask me to promote it - then sell. I'm earning more with the promotion than the actual coin itself. A crazy world we live in.

Not that crazy, people have been doing Ponzi schemes since the 1920's.

[hoosier-daddy]

Not that crazy, people have been doing Ponzi schemes since the 1920's.

You're not thick so why act like you are?

[Bosscat]

You're not thick so why act like you are?

Is it you who has conned Eric Pollard of his life savings (and his partners) on Emmerdale Frank