Empty Seats

[BigChaCha]

I'd love to see the stats, but I suspect we're an ageing fan base!... We have always punched above our weight and per capita, been one of the best-supported clubs on the planet and are still one of the best-supported clubs per capita in the country but I've always felt that was unsustainable and likely to drop off over time...

I just can't see the youth of today being as fanatical going forward, there are too many distractions and they have a much shorter attention span... I just think we had a unique affinity with the club that eventually will become less fervent and we will end up having a more normal per capita support than we have...

We have kind of taken our support for granted... It has been extraordinary... Very few other clubs compare on a per capita basis but I have noticed a slow drop-off for a while now, especially for away support.

[beddie]

I didn’t expect to see so many empty seats. We’re in the JHL - half way line and the back row had at least 20 continuous seats empty, I can’t recall seeing as many as that in a long time

[bumba]

It’s quite clear in that image that you have posted that the Jimmy Mac Lower is much fuller than recent games - last night it was barely half full. Nobody said it was a sell out every week under Kompany - but it was nowhere near as empty as it has been recently. Fans are voting wth their feet - and who can blame them?

I also wouldn’t say we played “really well” on the 4 game winning run. The Swansea game was almost as bad as last night, Bristol City was a ‘job done’ type of performance, first half v Boro and 30 mins in the second half v Stoke were encouraging but we’re hardly putting teams to the sword.

Negative team selections, boring tactics/patterns of play and players who just lack the ability needed to open teams up and ultimately finish in the automatic promotion spots.

Are the 'fans' really voting with their feet? Or is it the so called 'fans' that only turn up when we are a premier league club that jumped on the bandwagon in the championship because of VK that have decided to stop turning up just like previous relegations?

Pretty certain regardless that it's the price putting people off.

3rd in the league, keeping clean sheets, dominating possession, creating chances, all whilst probably our best 4 forward players are all out injured or unavailable.

[Awayfromburnley]

I've not gone to the last 3 home games.

Iam a season ticket holder but the long journey combined with what I can only describe as tedious matches, has made it easy for me not to go (the weather, night games and fact they are on TV has also influenced my decision).

It's just boring!!

[burnley007]

What would make people come back?

Do you think Parker will ever play entertaining football and get bums on seats?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

I honestly think you would have to be a lunatic to buy a one off ticket at the minute with the cost, the constant barrage of midweek games and then the quality of entertainment is just not there. It is like an open training session with players just repeating patterns of play.

I can't make the Watford game, so that is me done with the Turf until January. Usually I would be gutted to be away for so long, but I am honestly not that bothered.

[Ric_C]

Midweek night matches are becoming a real slog tbh. Been a season ticket holder for 35 years and hate missing matches. But the boring matches and not easy journey are making me have my doubts.

This is a real concern for Alan Pace. The crowd even before the game seemed bored. Since the squad overhaul in the last week of the window, here have been the results at home

1-1
2-1
1-0
0-0
0-0
1-0
2-0
1-1
0-0

You could argue it is impressive defensively, but 9 matches in which a total of 11 goals have been scored, is going to turn people away

[Poulton-le-Claret]

What would make people come back?

Do you think Parker will ever play entertaining football and get bums on seats?

Saturday 3pm kick offs would help for a start I bet.

Next few home games are:
Saturday
Weds (bank hol)
Friday
Monday
Saturday
Wednesday
Friday

[blatherwickstattoos]

I've not gone to the last 3 home games.

Iam a season ticket holder but the long journey combined with what I can only describe as tedious matches, has made it easy for me not to go (the weather, night games and fact they are on TV has also influenced my decision).

It's just boring!!

I can walk onto the turf in 10 minutes from where I live . Even I don’t want to waste that time at the minute.

[LlandennyClaret]

We live in South Wales and with the ridiculous number of weeknight matches, due to the new TV deal, means three of us with season tickets aren’t up for 7-8 hour round trip, mostly in the dark, when the game is on tv.
The football isn’t helping, but if we lived within an hours drive we would be there most games.
I’ve said in another thread previously that the value of a season ticket is getting less and less worth it for us.
We couldn’t even sell the tickets on the exchange for this one either.
Better football may help but the biggest issue is TV in my opinion.

[KRBFC]

The football has become so bad there was a part of me in the second half that hoped for an early Derby goal, then we might have seen some kind of urgency and a kick up the arse.

[KRBFC]

Its very similar and point being my example was a midweek game, in November, and against an unattractive opponent. And that was before this new tv deal where every single match is shown.

Opinion on what’s boring or not will change from person to person, but here we are talking about empty seats cause of style of play, and I have provided an example where it was very similar when we apparently played the best football ever and created one million chances per game (yes I’m exaggerating).

But why are you exaggerating? There’s no need to, anyone who has been on the ground recently and during the VK season will tell you the attendance/atmosphere difference is substantial. Go look at the away attendances too, it’s dropped alarmingly since Kompany.

[RVclaret]

But why are you exaggerating? There’s no need to, anyone who has been on the ground recently and during the VK season will tell you the attendance/atmosphere difference is substantial. Go look at the away attendances too, it’s dropped alarmingly since Kompany.

Exaggerating about one million chances - I thought that was pretty obvious.

[NL Claret]

Went to most midweek games in the glorious VK Championship season.

Log onto the ticket website and it was a struggle to get 2 seats together. Turn up on the night and have the choice of about 50 seats.

Not been this season for 2 reasons, increased ticket prices and increased TV coverage.

If I had a ST I wouldn’t have gone last night, reason ….work commitments.

[ArmchairDetective]

I decided not to go to last night's game, so my seat was one of the empty ones. I normally get home close to midnight after a midweek match. I was feeling a little under the weather, left work a little late, and the traffic was looking bad. I could also watch it at home. All those things contributed to my absence.

In the same situation two years ago would I have gone out of my way despite the above to watch a VK team have a really good go and maybe some last minute drama. Maybe yes.

In my situation it's a mix of the football being less entertaining but also midweek games generally just being a bit of a pain to get to. I'll be there for the next weekend match.

[jrgbfc]

Would be interesting to see some of the actual attendances this season. As others have said due to cost/tv games our walk ons are virtually non existent. But i can't remember a time when it felt like so many season ticket holders weren't bothering.

[Since62]

Travelling, costs, weather, Sky TV etc are all relevant but for me the lack of quality in attack has taken most of the excitement out of the game.
I have been to two 0 - 0 draws this season and yesterday (from my armchair) was no better. I don’t expect every performance to be good and I’m not particularly bothered about being promoted but I do want to be entertained and enjoy myself most of the time so for the moment I will take the easy option and watch from home.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

Are the 'fans' really voting with their feet? Or is it the so called 'fans' that only turn up when we are a premier league club that jumped on the bandwagon in the championship because of VK that have decided to stop turning up just like previous relegations?

Pretty certain regardless that it's the price putting people off.

3rd in the league, keeping clean sheets, dominating possession, creating chances, all whilst probably our best 4 forward players are all out injured or unavailable.

That in my case is spot on. Due to work patterns if I had a season ticket I'd pretty much miss over 50% of home games, the walk on prices though now imo are a joke. I fancied going on the Boro game, looked at the forecast and thought nah not at those prices !

[Dyched]

That in my case is spot on. Due to work patterns if I had a season ticket I'd pretty much miss over 50% of home games, the walk on prices though now imo are a joke. I fancied going on the Boro game, looked at the forecast and thought nah not at those prices !

Same here. At least £40 (Cheaper elsewhere but this time of year in the lower tiers is a risk not worth saving £5 for).

If I knew they’d be decent food at the ground, decent hot drinks and beer then that helps. Means there’s no rushing to grab some food either at home or elsewhere and can we washed down with a decent pint and a decent brew.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned further up the comments but I couldn’t believe how quiet it was last night. Derby out singing us, could hear conversations being had in the stands. Utterly appalling atmosphere and game of football

[Newcastleclaret93]

I’ve only been to a handful of games this season and I think in general the entertainment as a whole has been pretty poor. I actually think a lot of it is down to just how poor the atmosphere is. Without wanting to sound derogatory but when I was a kid going on the turf (to watch some fairly crap football in the Ternant days) the atmosphere was great. I think that is a massive part of the enjoyment of the going on the turf.

The football hasn’t been great this season but it really hasn’t been that bad.

It’s not just Burnley btw you go on nearly every other forum and everyone is talking about how crap the atmosphere is and how they are enjoying matches less

[Burnley1989]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned further up the comments but I couldn’t believe how quiet it was last night. Derby out singing us, could hear conversations being had in the stands. Utterly appalling atmosphere and game of football

You could hear the players talking to each other in the top tier of the Jimmy Mac, it was like a Reserve/Youth team game.
I'm not calling anyone as I was silent myself, but it does say a lot. (whether folk want to accept it or not is up to them)

[Andreshotboots]

I was a season ticket holder for a long time until a couple of years ago.

With the costs if everything rising, for me it was a choice of continue my golf membership, which is over £1000 per annum, or keep my season ticket, I couldn't do both...

I went for the golf as I love my Saturdays on the course, with the intention of attending plenty of home games as a walk on.

The cost is absolutely staggering hence the reason I've been on twice this year!! We're charging big city club prices for a town team without a doubt.

As has been previously mentioned too, there's not even much of an incentive to entice you in, you know you're not going to see too many goals and much blood and thunder action that gets you off your seat.

I think this ownership has to be very careful or we soon could be back to 12-13000 crowds, pricing people out of a club, and offering a poor product is not the way to make it successful..

[Burnley1989]

I’ve only been to a handful of games this season and I think in general the entertainment as a whole has been pretty poor. I actually think a lot of it is down to just how poor the atmosphere is. Without wanting to sound derogatory but when I was a kid going on the turf (to watch some fairly crap football in the Ternant days) the atmosphere was great. I think that is a massive part of the enjoyment of the going on the turf.

The football hasn’t been great this season but it really hasn’t been that bad.

It’s not just Burnley btw you go on nearly every other forum and everyone is talking about how crap the atmosphere is and how they are enjoying matches less

Spot on, times have changed, it wont ever go back in my opinion.
You'll get many folk complaining about the type of fan in the cricket field stand or at away days, but in truth they're generally the type that create an atmosphere. It looks like you cant have it both ways.

[NewClaret]

Spot on, times have changed, it wont ever go back in my opinion.
You'll get many folk complaining about the type of fan in the cricket field stand or at away days, but in truth they're generally the type that create an atmosphere. It looks like you cant have it both ways.

When I go away most home atmospheres are terrible. I think ours is pretty good by comparison, certainly was against Boro with a half-empty ground.

I think the TV deal is playing its part this year. All too easy to stop at home and watch it when it’s on the box, especially at this time of year when people have a lot on and a lot of expense.

It should be a huge concern for Alan Pace though. The entertainment needs to improve a lot if he wants the Turf to be full and bouncing.

[NottsClaret]

Spot on, times have changed, it wont ever go back in my opinion.
You'll get many folk complaining about the type of fan in the cricket field stand or at away days, but in truth they're generally the type that create an atmosphere. It looks like you cant have it both ways.

It's a fair point that. We all remember what the Longside was like, but pretty much everything about it would be frowned upon now. I'm a middle aged bore myself these days, but the fact is if you want a 'good' atmosphere, it's usually created by young, drunk lads who will often be shouting and singing things which will offend our delicate ears, standing up and generally being a bit rowdy. It's quite the quandary.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Spot on, times have changed, it wont ever go back in my opinion.
You'll get many folk complaining about the type of fan in the cricket field stand or at away days, but in truth they're generally the type that create an atmosphere. It looks like you cant have it both ways.

No you’re totally right, I think the whole culture of football has changed and I think it’s having a negative opinion on the enjoyment of matches.

Football is now longer and affordable prospect for every fan, social media has made it profitable to be negative (ie Arsenal tv, mark goldbridge), the type of fans that attend now are happy with prawn sandwiches and a day out.

(Before anyone says anything I’m talking about football as a whole not Burnley).

I think all of that wrapped up is just sanitising the football experience and making atmospheres and enjoyment die

[Dyched]

I’ve only been to a handful of games this season and I think in general the entertainment as a whole has been pretty poor. I actually think a lot of it is down to just how poor the atmosphere is. Without wanting to sound derogatory but when I was a kid going on the turf (to watch some fairly crap football in the Ternant days) the atmosphere was great. I think that is a massive part of the enjoyment of the going on the turf.

The football hasn’t been great this season but it really hasn’t been that bad.

It’s not just Burnley btw you go on nearly every other forum and everyone is talking about how crap the atmosphere is and how they are enjoying matches less

In them Ternant days we were the plucky little club, above our height, enjoying our time out of pits. Nowadays were ome of the big boys. Makes a mighty difference. It’s like Liverpool. It’s quiet when Crystal Palace are in town but when Real Madrid are then it’s a differe t story. Friday was rocking for a long periods against Boro.

[Newcastleclaret93]

When I go away most home atmospheres are terrible. I think ours is pretty good by comparison, certainly was against Boro with a half-empty ground.

I think the TV deal is playing its part this year. All too easy to stop at home and watch it when it’s on the box, especially at this time of year when people have a lot on and a lot of expense.

It should be a huge concern for Alan Pace though. The entertainment needs to improve a lot if he wants the Turf to be full and bouncing.

Certainly been a factor for me, I’m attending less and less games every year mainly because it’s more convenient and cost effective just stay at home and watch the match.

Il still try get to a few in person but honestly not that fussed about just watching the majority on tv

[Newcastleclaret93]

In them Ternant days we were the plucky little club, above our height, enjoying our time out of pits. Nowadays were ome of the big boys. Makes a mighty difference. It’s like Liverpool. It’s quiet when Crystal Palace are in town but when Real Madrid are then it’s a differe t story. Friday was rocking for a long periods against Boro.

I think you’re right but I would say on the whole football grounds don’t have the same atmospheres they used to.

To this day I still don’t think I’ve experienced an atmosphere like that Keane goal against Boro nearly 10 years ago.

I’m not convinced we will ever get back to that tbh

[Raconteur]

Used it so could see the BL stand too. The below is earlier and it’s the same.

We won 4 in a row playing, in the main, really well -

I agree with this but what dumbfounded me was Parkers bizarre decision to change that winning formula for reasons only known to him.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

I think the atmosphere picked up a little at the start of the second half, fans were making noise around me in the CFS, but then nothing changes on the pitch. The players don't raise the game or create any sort of excited, so it just slips back into keeping your hands warm in your pockets.

[blatherwickstattoos]

I was in the cricketfield and people had their backs to the game chatting to mates behind them. That’s how bad the football was. Alan pace as we know is into the idea of creating a better match day experience and atmosphere (drum ffs) but he must be sat there holding his wife’s hand tightly thinking what is going on!! He needs someone to tell him it’s the manager and his negative football that’s the issue.

[bumba]

I was in the cricketfield and people had their backs to the game chatting to mates behind them. That’s how bad the football was. Alan pace as we know is into the idea of creating a better match day experience and atmosphere (drum ffs) but he must be sat there holding his wife’s hand tightly thinking what is going on!! He needs someone to tell him it’s the manager and his negative football that’s the issue.

No it's not, it's the fans especially fans with your attitude since day 1

[blatherwickstattoos]

No it's not, it's the fans especially fans with your attitude since day 1

I sing. I get behind them. Would love to know where you sit. I’ll hazard a guess …you’ve got a Bob lord attitude

[bumba]

I sing. I get behind them. Would love to know where you sit. I’ll hazard a guess …you’ve got a Bob lord attitude

Cricket Field always have since it reopened.
Go to games in Europe the ground is packed an hour before a game non stop singing great atmospheres, yesterday was terrible from the fans. If we was loud and went quiet during the match because it was so poor I'd agree, the team needs to come out to the Turf rocking not a morgue like it is now.
The atmosphere at kick off has nothing to do with the style.
The style by the way that's got us 3rd with the 2nd best GD in the league and best defence and some good performances along the way, yes some bad ones but we are a team in transition and arguably out best 4 forwards missing all season.
Do we support the club or the style?

[blatherwickstattoos]

Cricket Field always have since it reopened.
Go to games in Europe the ground is packed an hour before a game non stop singing great atmospheres, yesterday was terrible from the fans. If we was loud and went quiet during the match because it was so poor I'd agree, the team needs to come out to the Turf rocking not a morgue like it is now.
The atmosphere at kick off has nothing to do with the style.
The style by the way that's got us 3rd with the 2nd best GD in the league and best defence and some good performances along the way, yes some bad ones but we are a team in transition and arguably out best 4 forwards missing all season.
Do we support the club or the style?

Fans just done care anymore it seems. Won’t ever forget the Newcastle game last game or the season and how mental and loud it was before the match. Then silence as we realised we were down after about 20 mins

[Sheedyclaret]

Live about a ten minute drive from TM I’m a ST holder and not been since Preston at home it’s becoming a chore again unfortunately with the mind numbing football on display it bores me to death…

[ClaretPete001]

The attendances are still very high for the Championship season and similar to VKs season.

The weather and Christmas always affects attendances.

I don't think the tactics are negative we tend to swarm over teams but I think sadly we are a bit short of quality up front. Had we played J Rod and Kolosheo from the start it might have made a difference.

But no doubt constant low scoring draws don't make for great entertainment and I don't think there is a belief in the crowd, which generates anticipation and excitement.

I mean no one rocked up to Turf, saw that line up and thought we'll get a hatful today.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I have never missed as many games as a STH. The last two weren’t bought on the Ticket Exchange despite being plum seats.

Combination of only having one car, living a long way away, pals no longer attending, school nights so cannot take family, driving gets more difficult as one gets older (particularly on unlit motorways) and the football is bloody tedious because we are set up so negatively.

This has the smell of “the end” about it, and ALK needs to guarantee promotion to avoid it. That means holding Parker to account for negativity (not giving him the keys to the palace like they did with Kompany), and it means spending big on forwards in January. What has to be avoided at all costs is a failure to go up this year, using up most of the parachute payments and the apathy setting in to a point where they only sell 13,000 ST next season with the resulting impact on getting behind the team. We have seen it before with several teams, Derby being one, they serve as a warning.

[Sheedyclaret]

The attendances are still very high for the Championship season and similar to VKs season.

The weather and Christmas always affects attendances.

I don't think the tactics are negative we tend to swarm over teams but I think sadly we are a bit short of quality up front. Had we played J Rod and Kolosheo from the start it might have made a difference.

But no doubt constant low scoring draws don't make for great entertainment and I don't think there is a belief in the crowd, which generates anticipation and excitement.

I mean no one rocked up to Turf, saw that line up and thought we'll get a hatful today.

Not been since Preston but we hardly swarm all over teams its boring safe possession with zero tempo to it teams just sit in and it’s easy to defend

[Dyched]

Cricket Field always have since it reopened.
Go to games in Europe the ground is packed an hour before a game non stop singing great atmospheres, yesterday was terrible from the fans. If we was loud and went quiet during the match because it was so poor I'd agree, the team needs to come out to the Turf rocking not a morgue like it is now.
The atmosphere at kick off has nothing to do with the style.
The style by the way that's got us 3rd with the 2nd best GD in the league and best defence and some good performances along the way, yes some bad ones but we are a team in transition and arguably out best 4 forwards missing all season.
Do we support the club or the style?

There’s more goals in Europe.

The Bundesliga for example since the year 2000 has had 23 seasons with an average of 2.7 goals a game.

The Championship has had 3.

[quoonbeatz]

We have 5 season tickets, which is one less than the number of goals I’ve seen at home this season and 5 of those were in one game. I think last night was only the 2nd time all 5 of us were there this season.

Far too many kickoff changes meaning the games clash with other things. The boring football doesn’t put me off; I’m a Burnley fan and I’ve seen loads of boring football so I’ll always still be there when I can be but it’s not as exciting as it once was because football as a whole is less exciting than it once was. Supporting a smaller club like ours is largely futile because we’re stuck with needing the promotion money to keep having good seasons at this level but knowing that in sporting terms it is completely pointless us playing in the premier league. The game as a whole is dying slowly and it’s hard to give a toss about any of it outside the fortunes of your own team.

[BigChaCha]

bumba wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 12:14 pm
Cricket Field always have since it reopened.
Go to games in Europe the ground is packed an hour before a game non stop singing great atmospheres, yesterday was terrible from the fans. If we was loud and went quiet during the match because it was so poor I'd agree, the team needs to come out to the Turf rocking not a morgue like it is now.
The atmosphere at kick off has nothing to do with the style.
The style by the way that's got us 3rd with the 2nd best GD in the league and best defence and some good performances along the way, yes some bad ones but we are a team in transition and arguably out best 4 forwards missing all season.
Do we support the club or the style?

First of all, we are in Europe lol and I go to games in many other countries within Europe and that is not always the case... The atmosphere you describe is generally only in their top-tier divisions from my experience so it's not a like-for-like experience!... The beer is also usually far cheaper than here which helps and the weather is usually at least 5 degrees warmer which makes a massive difference... You are comparing oranges with apples!...

Secondly... If you can't see there is a problem with the style and that it has an effect when most fans are saying that and even neutral fans, pundits, journalists and ex-players are saying it, then that is your problem and you're in a tiny minority who think that...

Thirdly... Who are these best 4 forwards missing all season that you keep spouting on about?... Many of our players who are injured were known to be out for most of the season at the start of the season so we knew who to buy in the summer to compete in those areas so that's a pointless argument... Or do you mean Foster?... A player who has hardly done anything while he has been here, especially this season before his injury and a player who has since been replaced by Rodriguez who has performed far better and scored more goals this season than him!... Or do you mean Benson, a player that looked damn useless and made it obvious he doesn't want to be here in the few appearances before his latest injury?...

Come on let's have a laugh, Who are these best 4 forwards missing all season you keep bringing up?

[ClaretPete001]

Not been since Preston but we hardly swarm all over teams its boring safe possession with zero tempo to it teams just sit in and it’s easy to defend

You can quibble over the description but we got nigh on 70 per cent possession and had 14 shots last evening and that is about as bad as we have played.

Other than the odd foray Derby never really got that much of a sniff and our midfielders tend to dominate.

We are just shocking up front...

[fidelcastro]

Come on let's have a laugh, Who are these best 4 forwards missing all season you keep bringing up?
[/quote]

At a guess, he means Foster, Benson, Tresor and Redmond, but he'd be wrong.

[Rileybobs]

The atmosphere this season is as poor as I can ever remember it being. Number of reasons why;

- We're no longer the underdog
- Style of play is boring
- Generally poor away support
- Lack of connection between fans and a bunch of disposable and interchangeable assets wearing Burnley kits (pretend this isn't real if you want)
- Nothing to get the fans riled up (serious lack of any 'big tackles', no emotion from the players, no really contentious refereeing decisions, no pantomime villain opponent)
- Generally football has become a purely technical game based on what to do and when, playing percentages and discouraging individualism. This definitely goes for this Burnley side but also applies to most of the opposition who come to Turf Moor with a game plan comprising entirely of making no mistakes and not conceding a goal.

I can see some people are trying to convince themselves that the atmosphere and despondency has always been like this, but if you attend games and think this you aren't being truthful.

[ClaretPete001]

Come on let's have a laugh, Who are these best 4 forwards missing all season you keep bringing up?

At a guess, he means Foster, Benson, Tresor and Redmond, but he'd be wrong.
[/quote]

They are decent players but I'm not greatly convinced that any of them has 10-15 goals in them, which is probably what we need to secure a top 2 spot

[fidelcastro]

They are decent players but I'm not greatly convinced that any of them has 10-15 goals in them, which is probably what we need to secure a top 2 spot

I'm entirely convinced they haven't!

[Dyched]

The atmosphere this season is as poor as I can ever remember it being. Number of reasons why;

- We're no longer the underdog
- Style of play is boring
- Generally poor away support
- Lack of connection between fans and a bunch of disposable and interchangeable assets wearing Burnley kits (pretend this isn't real if you want)
- Nothing to get the fans riled up (serious lack of any 'big tackles', no emotion from the players, no really contentious refereeing decisions, no pantomime villain opponent)
- Generally football has become a purely technical game based on what to do and when, playing percentages and discouraging individualism. This definitely goes for this Burnley side but also applies to most of the opposition who come to Turf Moor with a game plan comprising entirely of making no mistakes and not conceding a goal.

I can see some people are trying to convince themselves that the atmosphere and despondency has always been like this, but if you attend games and think this you aren't being truthful.

The connection thing again