Clarts vs Derby

[The Shire Claret]

******** this. We've got players who cost more than Derby's team and made them look our equals.

And we beat Man United 2-0 at old Trafford - I’m sure the comparison was the same

[distortiondave]

Unrelated to the actual football on show; Scott Parker is still really, really, weird. Gives me bad vibes.

[123EasyasBFC]

And we beat Man United 2-0 at old Trafford - I’m sure the comparison was the same

We beat United 2-0 with a team that had been in the prem for 6 years, not a comparison at all to tonight’s result.

Everyone knows that in football results don’t go your way all the time but that doesn’t mean you are wrong to think we should be beating Derby tonight with the team we have compared to theirs

[Bow]

anyone think Parker is getting the best out of the squad ?

I think he is. He was dealt a horrific hand pre season and cobbled together a team that’s 3rd in the league, and who have conceded the lowest amount of goals in English league football by some margin.

[elwaclaret]

We beat United 2-0 with a team that had been in the prem for 6 years, not a comparison at all to tonight’s result.

Everyone knows that in football results don’t go your way all the time but that doesn’t mean you are wrong to think we should be beating Derby tonight with the team we have compared to theirs

I wouldn’t go so far as say we should be beating Derby… but we should at least look like we are trying to.

[Quicknick]

I wouldn’t go so far as say we should be beating Derby… but we should at least look like we are trying to.

Of course they were trying to win.

[burnley007]

No we are certainly not one and same.

I hope we're not.

Maybe we are and we need some therapy??

[RVclaret]

Watched Leeds v Derby the other day. Similar game for 40 minutes. We probably created better chances in open play than Leeds did (Opta data agrees), and they have a stronger team, yet it was 2 set pieces for them which made it a very comfortable second half (still didn’t create much). We had another 6 corners last night and won the first header in one of them I think.

[dandeclaret]

We've got a horribly entitled fan base imo.

I'm as frustrated as most with a point today, I was against Boro, but I don't think performances are half as bad as being made out.

We had chances to win the game, Sarmiento had two shots inside their box first half, Pires had that one at the back post, Koleoshos 1vs1 in the second. We are also dominating teams- is it perfect, no, but we're doing a lot of things right.

This group of players is very erratic on the ball and some of them need to find a bit of consistency but we really aren't that bad.

Agree fully with this.

[dsr]

Of course they were trying to win.

Winning should be the primary aim. Yesterday we were playing primarily to not concede a goal, with hopes of perhaps a penalty or somehow sneaking a goal to turn a draw into a win. They wouldn't have objected to winning, obviously, but it wasn't first priority.

[Blyclaret]

I hope we're not.

Maybe we are and we need some therapy??

Admitting you need therapy …. Thats good … your half way there.

[RVclaret]

Winning should be the primary aim. Yesterday we were playing primarily to not concede a goal, with hopes of perhaps a penalty or somehow sneaking a goal to turn a draw into a win. They wouldn't have objected to winning, obviously, but it wasn't first priority.

Complete nonsense.

[Rick_Muller]

Day after analysis from me results in recognising that the fluidity that we built up recently was affected by missing CJER and us having to change too much at the back to accommodate players changing positions. It's no excuse, but I think its a valid reason to go some way to explain why we've not performed as well as we have done recently.

[BigChaCha]

boyyanno wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 10:42 pm
We've got a horribly entitled fan base imo.

I'm as frustrated as most with a point today, I was against Boro, but I don't think performances are half as bad as being made out.

Codswollop!... Even the commentator seemed exasperated last night and alluded to how bored he was when he continually mentioned the lack of creativity and the lack of chances...

The empty seats say otherwise too!...

If anything, we are far more chilled about it than we should be!

[Clovius Boofus]

We've got a horribly entitled fan base imo.

We do indeed have a massively entitled fanbase and it's not a recent thing either. There were fans who wanted Dyche sacked after a bad Boxing Day afternoon in Hull - the same season we won the Championship 2015/2016.

A couple of weeks ago people were saying how lucky we are to have a well organised manager in SP after last season's chaos. Two home draws later, one of them fought in horrendous conditions, and some of those very same people are saying he's a load of crap.

[Burnley1989]

I think he is. He was dealt a horrific hand pre season and cobbled together a team that’s 3rd in the league, and who have conceded the lowest amount of goals in English league football by some margin.

I agree, I don't actually think we have enough quality at the minute, I'm not sure what else he can do.

Obviously we are a solid side but we are a long way off the sides that have won us promotion previously, perhaps other than the Coyle side.

[burnleymik]

Entitled isn't the right word, but we certainly have expectations, as we should given our comparative wage structure and squad.

To be honest it's solely down to Parker's way of setting us up to play, which plays into the hands of the low block teams (most realise this is easier than trying to outplay us) and makes the games inevitably boring if there isn't an early goal.

I think people just want to see him experiment a little more and be a bit more aggressive against the perceived weaker teams in the division, instead of making us predictable and easier to play against.

[gandhisflipflop]

The problem we have is that if we sacked parker, I do not see a scenario that favours the club at all. It would be seen on the outside as a bonkers decision given our position in the league, and any potential replacements wouldn’t have the same faith that they would get time like we have given to our previous managers so from a club attraction point of view that isn’t great either.

I’m far from happy with our football, and for what it’s worth I don’t think we have the right man in Parker long term but given our position in the league, we have far more to lose than to gain at this moment in time be getting rid. If we were mid table it would be a different story. We have no choice but to continue.

[The Shire Claret]

We're gonna win the league

[dandeclaret]

I didn't think it was that bad last night to be honest. Got into good positions, and either the penultimate pass, or the execution of the finish were off. There was one definite penalty, and one probable penalty.

The team were largely in control of the game for 90 minutes, despite Phil Bird panicking on the early part of the game I had to watch in the taxi back from the airport.

Stats wise, a couple of interesting ones I think.

Burnley completed 494 passes last night.... 272 in the opposition half (hardly plays into this we just knock it round at the back mantra)

Burnley had 38 touches in the opposition box last night.... only Sunderland (44) had more in any game in the league last night.

How much of the assessment of games presently is what's actually happening, versus preconceived ideas?

[warksclaret]

Pep Guardiola would never be able to get this side higher than third as we are significantly off from the quality of players being shown by Leeds and Sheff Utdte

[burnley007]

Admitting you need therapy …. Thats good … your half way there.

*you're

[burnley007]

We're gonna win the league

which League?

[cockneyclaret]

which League?

Under 21s lol

[The Shire Claret]

which League?

Are we in more than one league ?

[The Shire Claret]

Under 21s lol

[ChorltonCharlie]

There has been a bit of an improvement lately, but last night was back to square one. What frustrates me is the changes for changes sake. None of us are in the know on injury niggles, and maybe players dropped were precautionary, but the attacking changes both came on as subs so we have to assume tactical tweaks.

Boro took a lead against us and for 20-30 minutes we responded by being as dominant as I've seen all season. The team had a nice balance with 2 more orthodox midfielders and three creative players around an out and out striker. Not one player was a square peg in a round hole.

Last night it all gets ripped up. 3 orthodox midfielders, Sarmiento starting from the wing, but clearly directed to move infield as soon as we had possession. Flemming whose best position is behind a striker up front on his own. Pires expect to push up and be a left winger. No surprise that we had Flemming, Sarmiento, Brownhill and Laurent all roughly playing in the same space. Instead of stretching the pitch to make space it just felt like we condensed it. Derby must have been delighted.

I can accept as a manager that you get it wrong, but be pro-active and change it. Parker took an hour to make the first change, which barely changed anything. Then another 10 before he finally brought on an attacker for a central midfielder. The worrying thing is he's happy with what he's seeing.

[burnley007]

Did Parker come out and admit part of the responsibility after the game?

nope.

[blatherwickstattoos]

Did Parker come out and admit part of the responsibility after the game?

nope.

Yeah he didn’t use his “to a man” phrase in his interview. I think that’s his way of apologising

[dandeclaret]

Reign it in lads, you're as boring as the football you claim to be watching.

[boyyanno]

Everything I know about football tells me that Parker is up against it if this is how some of the fans react.

We won three in a row and people were happy, we've just drawn two in a row (one tricky one vs Boro) and arguably deserved to win both, and yet people are now "unhappy".

I've said it a lot of times but football isn't linear. People who expect this team to just improve every week to a point where we thrash everyone 5-0 are just not being realistic at all. We are going to have off days.

If the fans are sharpening pitchforks for the manager after two draws in a row and being sat 3rd in the table then Pace might as well get rid of him because we know what it takes to get promoted and imo a large part of it is the togetherness.

[Bordeauxclaret]

People aren’t “sharpening pitchforks” after two draws.

They are voicing frustration as we are almost halfway through the season and have produced an awful lot of uninspiring performances at home.

[123EasyasBFC]

Everything I know about football tells me that Parker is up against it if this is how some of the fans react.

We won three in a row and people were happy, we've just drawn two in a row (one tricky one vs Boro) and arguably deserved to win both, and yet people are now "unhappy".

I've said it a lot of times but football isn't linear. People who expect this team to just improve every week to a point where we thrash everyone 5-0 are just not being realistic at all. We are going to have off days.

If the fans are sharpening pitchforks for the manager after two draws in a row and being sat 3rd in the table then Pace might as well get rid of him because we know what it takes to get promoted and imo a large part of it is the togetherness.

It’s fair to be unhappy after winning 4 in a row looking like we were getting somewhere and then for some reason Parker decided to go ultra defensive/complacent against a league one team in thier own managers eyes

[boyyanno]

People aren’t “sharpening pitchforks” after two draws.

They are voicing frustration as we are almost halfway through the season and have produced an awful lot of uninspiring performances at home.

Have you read this thread?

One guy started a thread last week saying he was wrong about Parker. It's mental.

We are almost halfway through the season and third in the table. You can't just use perspective when it suits.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Have you read this thread?

One guy started a thread last week saying he was wrong about Parker. It's mental.

We are almost halfway through the season and third in the table. You can't just use perspective when it suits.

You can call performances poor and uninspiring when they are.
When they keep happening you are bound to get a build up of frustration.

[boyyanno]

You can call performances poor and uninspiring when they are.
When they keep happening you are bound to get a build up of frustration.

Of course you can, I too thought we were poor last night, but still did enough to win the game (in my opinion of course).

There seems to be some level of expectation that we'll just play well and smash every team that's "inferior" to us. And to most that's pretty much every team in the division.

People need to ask themselves is that how football works? In my lifetime of football I've very rarely seen it happen like that hence why so few teams reach 100 points.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Of course you can, I too thought we were poor last night, but still did enough to win the game (in my opinion of course).

There seems to be some level of expectation that we'll just play well and smash every team that's "inferior" to us. And to most that's pretty much every team in the division.

People need to ask themselves is that how football works? In my lifetime of football I've very rarely seen it happen like that hence why so few teams reach 100 points.

Again I don’t think that’s true either. I don’t know any Burnley fan that’s ever thought we should go and smash teams.

What we do have is an incredible financial advantage over other teams and because of that we have better players.

However we are failing to break down sides on a regular basis. Preston, QPR, Derby, Rovers with ten men, beating Plymouth and Swansea via pens.


Fans are bound to get frustrated when it keeps happening.

[Wokingclaret]

We didn't do enough to win either the Boro or Derby game.

Last night was disappointing and a bore

[123EasyasBFC]

There’s a clear difference between frustration and being entitled.

Entitled is winning games and moaning about the way we play and that we should be scoring more.

Moaning about the way we played in a 0-0 draw against an extremely poor Derby team isn’t being entitled

[dandeclaret]

Was there this level of moaning at the same point in the Kompany season with the same number of points?

[boyyanno]

Again I don’t think that’s true either. I don’t know any Burnley fan that’s ever thought we should go and smash teams.

What we do have is an incredible financial advantage over other teams and because of that we have better players.

However we are failing to break down sides on a regular basis. Preston, QPR, Derby, Rovers with ten men, beating Plymouth and Swansea via pens.


Fans are bound to get frustrated when it keeps happening.

Look at what you're writing- you've just perfectly illustrated my point.

If we beat those sides instead of drawing with them them we'd be on course to smash the division again with a massive points total and we'd be flying clear at the top of the table- so yes by your own definition that's what your expectation is.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Was there this level of moaning at the same point in the Kompany season with the same number of points?

A few fans moaned throughout the summer transfer window but then went missing as the season went on.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Look at what you're writing- you've just perfectly illustrated my point.

If we beat those sides instead of drawing with them them we'd be on course to smash the division again with a massive points total and we'd be flying clear at the top of the table- so yes by your own definition that's what your expectation is.

So you’ve just decided I think we should go ahead and smash teams?

Strange approach.

[Guller Bull]

Was there this level of moaning at the same point in the Kompany season with the same number of points?

This and the "and the entitled fans are moaning when we are 2nd/3rd/4th in the league ffs! " kind of comments.

Nobody is moaning because we are where we are in the league. Not many expect us to **** the league, some of us don't even care if we get promoted this season or not. But no I personally wasn't moaning when we were where we were in the league with Vinny because it was great to watch! Same as it was with Oweny! With Shauny also it was direct and exciting. With Scotty at the helm it is a grind. He will get us up but it isn't entertaining.

[boyyanno]

So you’ve just decided I think we should go ahead and smash teams?

Strange approach.

Ahhh the whole- "crap I can't respond to that because he's actually made a good point, better deflect" strategy.

Nice.

[dandeclaret]

This and the "and the entitled fans are moaning when we are 2nd/3rd/4th in the league ffs! " kind of comments.

Nobody is moaning because we are where we are in the league. Not many expect us to **** the league, some of us don't even care if we get promoted this season or not. But no I personally wasn't moaning when we were where we were in the league with Vinny because it was great to watch! Same as it was with Oweny! With Shauny also it was direct and exciting. With Scotty at the helm it is a grind. He will get us up but it isn't entertaining.

Last night, Burnley played most of the game in the opposition half, and had more touches in the box than every championship team playing last night bar Sunderland. I asked the point above, on how much of this is actually reacting to what's happening, and how much is preconceived ideas? It's hardly Cotterball esque, all sat in our own half hoping for the odd counter, nor is it the dullness of the naivety of last season, and being 2-0 down due to self inflicted wounds before half past three.

[scamander]

The difference in where we play better and where we don't seems to reside in decision making as opposed to skill. A few times yesterday a quick ball was on but a player took an extra touch and so the moment was lost.

A good example was Pires at the far fost - rather than fire a cross in the decision was to recycle the ball. Perhaps it's an experience thing?

Koleosho needed to take their full back more on the outside but wanted to run into a very congested part of the pitch. Again, decisions and age.

I feel for Flemming, he's very good when linking up but not a poacher - though he has taken up good positions in the games I have seen and not been given the ball. He needs to be alongside or behind a striker.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Ahhh the whole- "crap I can't respond to that because he's actually made a good point, better deflect" strategy.

Nice.

It’s more the fact you’ve imagined something in your own head and decided to run with it.

Nobody is saying we should be smashing teams.

[boyyanno]

It’s more the fact you’ve imagined something in your own head and decided to run with it.

Nobody is saying we should be smashing teams.

What would you call it if we had beat all those teams and currently sat 9 points clear at the top of the table- if not smashing the division?

[Guller Bull]

Dande

Agreed -we play a lot higher up the pitch and have more touches.It still is limited in creative flowing enjoyable football.
It doesn't feel much more than a couple of steps up from Cotterill
We wont know how we can compare the naivety in the Prem until we are back up there. my gut feeling is we will manage the self inflicted wounds with far more packing but they will still be the same wounds.