Empty Seats

[claretonthecoast1882]

I'm entirely convinced they haven't!

Benson has already scored more than 10 goals in a full season in this division

[fidelcastro]

Benson has already scored more than 10 goals in a full season in this division

Two seasons ago, yes.

With the injuries he's had since and alleged poor attitude, I don't think he'll reach those heights again.

I hope I'm wrong though.

[RickyBobby]

All midweek games being on sky sports+ won’t help attendances. That combined with the football we are serving up you can’t blame people staying in when they have been at work all day and have to get up for work in the morning. If I near Bradford way still I wouldn’t have bothered going last night. Not worth the effort this season.

[Rileybobs]

The connection thing again

Yes, there's definitely not a lack of connection between the players and fans is there...

[claretonthecoast1882]

2 seasons ago when we were the all conquering swashbuckling side that destroyed everyone, played in a better atmosphere, had players fans felt connected with like Tella who had been here a few months, hadn't had eye watering price increases and there was no sky plus we had 3 games on a Saturday and 5 midweek games with a lower attendance than last night

[Dyched]

Yes, there's definitely not a lack of connection between the players and fans is there...

What is this “connection”. What does it mean?

[Rileybobs]

What is this “connection”. What does it mean?

Do you honestly need that explaining or are you being disingenuous?

[Dyched]

2 seasons ago when we were the all conquering swashbuckling side that destroyed everyone, played in a better atmosphere, had players fans felt connected with like Tella who had been here a few months, hadn't had eye watering price increases and there was no sky plus we had 3 games on a Saturday and 5 midweek games with a lower attendance than last night

Connected?!?

You just mean fans liked Tella because he was good.

[Dyched]

Do you honestly need that explaining or are you being disingenuous?

Explain away please.

[Rileybobs]

Explain away please.

I fully believe you are being disingenuous but I'll answer your question anyway by copying and pasting a response I made a few months ago;

A connection to the manager and players who represent the club. A feeling that everyone associated with the club is pulling in the same direction and giving their maximum effort to achieve on-pitch success. Supporting a team of players who would ‘run through walls’ for each other. Watching people develop and improve as players of Burnley Football Club. Supporting a club that punches above its weight and a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. Having leaders on the pitch who act with bravery and commitment. Having players who understand the importance of resonating with the supporters - Tarkowski smashing a gobby Richarlison, Barnes pushing Kaminski into the net, Tella sticking 4 fingers up to the Rovers defender, Trippier doing a chicken dance at Ewood. Dean Marney.

[Dyched]

I fully believe you are being disingenuous but I'll answer your question anyway by copying and pasting a response I made a few months ago;

A connection to the manager and players who represent the club. A feeling that everyone associated with the club is pulling in the same direction and giving their maximum effort to achieve on-pitch success. Supporting a team of players who would ‘run through walls’ for each other. Watching people develop and improve as players of Burnley Football Club. Supporting a club that punches above its weight and a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. Having leaders on the pitch who act with bravery and commitment. Having players who understand the importance of resonating with the supporters - Tarkowski smashing a gobby Richarlison, Barnes pushing Kaminski into the net, Tella sticking 4 fingers up to the Rovers defender, Trippier doing a chicken dance at Ewood. Dean Marney.

Absolute nonsense.

It comes down to how well they performed and how they left us It’s exactly same as how fans see “loyalty”. I assume that’s why certain moments in recent history bigger than those mentioned were left out.

[Rileybobs]

Absolute nonsense.

It comes down to how well they performed and how they left us It’s exactly same as how fans see “loyalty”. I assume that’s why certain moments in recent history bigger than those mentioned were left out.

How can you call what other people feel nonsense? You don't know how I or others feel about the players or club we support. If you genuinely haven't felt a connection to a Burnley team, or individual players, that isn't based on their performance or how they left us (I find that one quite weird), then I actually feel sorry for you.

[Burnley1989]

The atmosphere this season is as poor as I can ever remember it being. Number of reasons why;

- We're no longer the underdog
- Style of play is boring
- Generally poor away support
- Lack of connection between fans and a bunch of disposable and interchangeable assets wearing Burnley kits (pretend this isn't real if you want)
- Nothing to get the fans riled up (serious lack of any 'big tackles', no emotion from the players, no really contentious refereeing decisions, no pantomime villain opponent)
- Generally football has become a purely technical game based on what to do and when, playing percentages and discouraging individualism. This definitely goes for this Burnley side but also applies to most of the opposition who come to Turf Moor with a game plan comprising entirely of making no mistakes and not conceding a goal.

I can see some people are trying to convince themselves that the atmosphere and despondency has always been like this, but if you attend games and think this you aren't being truthful.

Good post

[Dyched]

How can you call what other people feel nonsense? You don't know how I or others feel about the players or club we support. If you genuinely haven't felt a connection to a Burnley team, or individual players, that isn't based on their performance or how they left us (I find that one quite weird), then I actually feel sorry for you.

What’s weird about that?

[Rileybobs]

What’s weird about that?

I find it weird that your connection to Burnley players is based on the manner in which they leave the club whilst you claim that my reasons are nonsense.

[Dyched]

I find it weird that your connection to Burnley players is based on the manner in which they leave the club whilst you claim that my reasons are nonsense.

That has absolutely everything to with it.

Did you feel a connection with VK in the January of the promotion season? Yes will be the answer. Did you 12 months later based of the performances? No will be the answer. How about the way he left, as in it was his choice not the clubs. Again no will be the answer.

How about players like Ings, Shackell, Wood. You won’t because THEY made the choice to leave.

[Goliath]

I don't go to most games these days but went to the Boro game and found it a thoroughly depressing affair all round. When someone above describes that as a good atmosphere, it makes me question if that's what football has become.
I thought it was dreadful atmosphere wise.

[ClaretTony]

Friday's game was played in dreadful conditions - I sat and shivered all the way through. Concerns that last night would be similar. Easy for many to give it a miss given both were on TV too, this FL deal with Sky will kill attendances.

Again last night, I looked across at the Bob Lord and it was nowhere near half full.

[Rileybobs]

That has absolutely everything to with it.

Did you feel a connection with VK in the January of the promotion season? Yes will be the answer. Did you 12 months later based of the performances? No will be the answer. How about the way he left, as in it was his choice not the clubs. Again no will be the answer.

How about players like Ings, Shackell, Wood. You won’t because THEY made the choice to leave.

You seem to be making the mistake of thinking that everyone else feels the same way that you do.

[NottsClaret]

I do agree the 'connection' thing does pretty much go hand in hand with being good. Man Utd fans don't have a connection now, Chelsea didn't last season. Now Chelsea do, because they're winning. It's sometimes that simple.

That said, we absolutely had it under Dyche, I think even the most cynical fan can see that. Even when we were finishing bottom half, or getting relegated the first time, the players and (match going) fans did feel like we were all in it together.

[burnley007]

Friday's game was played in dreadful conditions - I sat and shivered all the way through. Concerns that last night would be similar. Easy for many to give it a miss given both were on TV too, this FL deal with Sky will kill attendances.

Again last night, I looked across at the Bob Lord and it was nowhere near half full.

I think the big concern is not just the empty seats, but the trend that there are more and more each game.

[ClaretTony]

I think the big concern is not just the empty seats, but the trend that there are more and more each game.

It's happening all across the Football League as fans realise just how often their teams are on TV

[cbx750]

Friday's game was played in dreadful conditions - I sat and shivered all the way through.

You might want to consider a heated gilet.
I have one they are quite thin and can be worn under a coat or even a pullover. Keeps me warm in the motorbike.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rrtizan-Temper ... 14&sr=8-23

[burnley007]

I do agree the 'connection' thing does pretty much go hand in hand with being good. Man Utd fans don't have a connection now, Chelsea didn't last season. Now Chelsea do, because they're winning. It's sometimes that simple.

That said, we absolutely had it under Dyche, I think even the most cynical fan can see that. Even when we were finishing bottom half, or getting relegated the first time, the players and (match going) fans did feel like we were all in it together.

I always think a good indication of a player connecting with fans is when they sing their name, or even better when there is a song specifically about them.
I cannot imagine fans singing songs about Anthony, Flemming, Worral, Pires, Laurent, Hannibal, Egan, Hountondji any time soon.

[bfcmik]

My seat, my son's seat, and my 2 grandkids' seats were all empty as it is school/work night for them and too expensive for me after Friday's trip north.

[Ric_C]

This is an example of our issues. The Rodriguez header near the end. We need to be getting lots of bodies in the box, but we have 2 against 5. This happened time and time again where we either picked out the first man or just plonked it on the head of the number 6.

Screenshot 2024-12-11 at 14.40.25.png (1.76 MiB) Viewed 2009 times

[fidelcastro]

Are the attendances given out still including the non attending ST holders?

I thought 18000 looked very generous last night.

[NottsClaret]

It's happening all across the Football League as fans realise just how often their teams are on TV

It's only just hitting home this season. Next season is going to be a really tough sell for season tickets, not just with us. How many people are actually on the Turf each week now, it's nowhere near the 18 or 19k.

[RVclaret]

This is an example of our issues. The Rodriguez header near the end. We need to be getting lots of bodies in the box, but we have 2 against 5. This happened time and time again where we either picked out the first man or just plonked it on the head of the number 6.

Screenshot 2024-12-11 at 14.40.25.png

Or, presented differently, when there are 6 men in the box, the cross needs to go past the man stood in front of you, which didn’t happen here..

[Dyched]

You seem to be making the mistake of thinking that everyone else feels the same way that you do.

They do and you do. It comes down to who performed and how they left.

Trippier and Ings are great examples of this. Fans want a player coming in, performances and the player never to leave on his terms.

[Plissken]

This is an example of our issues. The Rodriguez header near the end. We need to be getting lots of bodies in the box, but we have 2 against 5. This happened time and time again where we either picked out the first man or just plonked it on the head of the number 6.

Screenshot 2024-12-11 at 14.40.25.png

Because that is the area that the manager is telling them to put the cross in from. It is so easy to defend because the opposition know that ball isn't going out to Koleosho. And in the vanishingly small chance that it is, he's facing sideways, so is coming inside anyway. But that cross is coming in from Roberts, and is all sorts of bad angles for the striker to do anything with. No forward in the world is going to be able to win that header and give it enough force and momentum to beat the goalie from that distance even before you consider that he's battling a centre back for it.

I'm going to use that screenshot in tonights OOMTM - I'll credit you.

[Ric_C]

Crossing in general is dire across the board tbh.

[JohnMac]

I was on Bus 152 which stopped at the Tim Bobbin and declared the incident at Gannow Top and everyone got off. Walking to the Turf in that temperature whilst rushing was not an option for me at approaching 70 with existing Heart and Lung conditions. I took the sensible approach and got my Wife to pick me up and returned home. I'm sure the number of people who gave up in traffic queues etc would have been quite high and whilst not in the thousands, possibly a hundred or more.

[Dyched]

This is an example of our issues. The Rodriguez header near the end. We need to be getting lots of bodies in the box, but we have 2 against 5. This happened time and time again where we either picked out the first man or just plonked it on the head of the number 6.

Screenshot 2024-12-11 at 14.40.25.png

Problem with this is, if he gives it to Kole then the 2 will be making runs in the box. Which is either Kole not be trusted to beat his man to cross it, or Roberts making a poor decision.

[Dyched]

Does look like he’s asking for it as well. That’s on Roberts poor decision making tbh.

[The Shire Claret]

The cheapest tickets for a non ST Holder to take their kid to the Watford game is £53 .... The most expensive is £83 ...

For Championship football ....

A lot of People from Burnley simply can't afford that

[Rileybobs]

They do and you do. It comes down to who performed and how they left.

Trippier and Ings are great examples of this. Fans want a player coming in, performances and the player never to leave on his terms.

I don't really know what point you're trying to make. I'm talking about having a connection to players whilst they play for Burnley, not after they've moved. I don't really what connection I have to a player once he's left the club - and it's totally irrelevant to the discussion about atmosphere.

[jrgbfc]

I’ve only been to a handful of games this season and I think in general the entertainment as a whole has been pretty poor. I actually think a lot of it is down to just how poor the atmosphere is. Without wanting to sound derogatory but when I was a kid going on the turf (to watch some fairly crap football in the Ternant days) the atmosphere was great. I think that is a massive part of the enjoyment of the going on the turf.

The football hasn’t been great this season but it really hasn’t been that bad.

It’s not just Burnley btw you go on nearly every other forum and everyone is talking about how crap the atmosphere is and how they are enjoying matches less

Its a good point. When i started going on as a kid it was the atmosphere that hooked me as much as anything. I probably spent as much time just watching the Longside as what was happening on the pitch.

[The Shire Claret]

3 - 4 Seasons ago for walk on's if you wernt fussed where you sat you could pay

£20 ticket
£5 Pie and a Pint

£25 all in

Now

£35 Ticket
£6 Pint
£4.50 Pie

Nearly doubled

[blatherwickstattoos]

3 - 4 Seasons ago for walk on's if you wernt fussed where you sat you could pay

£20 ticket
£5 Pie and a Pint

£25 all in

Now

£35 Ticket
£6 Pint
£4.50 Pie

Nearly doubled

All the while the working class person around here are on less than the national wage average.

[The Shire Claret]

All the while the working class person around here are on less than the national wage average.

Exactly - So Empty Seats will be the norm if we don't get up at the first time of asking

[ClaretTony]

It's only just hitting home this season. Next season is going to be a really tough sell for season tickets, not just with us. How many people are actually on the Turf each week now, it's nowhere near the 18 or 19k.

Not even close to those numbers, particularly the last two games. They can talk the talk as much as they like but the leagues and the clubs don’t give a damn about supporters. But it will bite them in the end.

[elwaclaret]

Football has been moving away from its roots for thirty years, remember Fergie complaining about the “prawn sandwich brigade” moving in. Football is now paying the price for pricing many of its core supporters out of the market. The middle class may have the money but they also have other interests. When I was working at John Cottons the sole conversation at breaks was football… the workers lived from one game to the next, they wore last seasons kit under their overalls and booked half days to get to away games….

[Dyched]

I don't really know what point you're trying to make. I'm talking about having a connection to players whilst they play for Burnley, not after they've moved. I don't really what connection I have to a player once he's left the club - and it's totally irrelevant to the discussion about atmosphere.

I’m pointing out there is no “connection”.

This “connection” is just these are my most “favourite players” but for adults.

[Stayingup]

With us mostly unable to break down teams at home and poor teams coming to defend deep and as mentioned early on this thread wasting time from the off we are perhaps better playing away where the onus should be on the home team to come out and attack. At home we need to get in behind these defences but the wingers are not good enough and the play is mostly too slow.

[paulatky]

This new TV deal will be a disaster for midweek attendances. And we either aren't bothered about walk ons anymore, or if Pace thought people would be willing to pay 40 quid for games last night then he's living in a fantasy world.

Would appear that the powers that be are are now pushing fans to watch on TV with so many games televised and more to be televised next season

We chose to watch it on telly to save 3 hours travelling in the dark

[Newcastleclaret93]

3 - 4 Seasons ago for walk on's if you wernt fussed where you sat you could pay

£20 ticket
£5 Pie and a Pint

£25 all in

Now

£35 Ticket
£6 Pint
£4.50 Pie

Nearly doubled

When you add the cost of travel in for me, it’s over £100 per match day now

[AmbleClaret]

A slightly different angle,but hopefully relevant. Been going on Turf since early 70's so seen every high and low. A number of posts have alluded to lack of connection with the team,and increasing technical knowledge and skills coming in, replacing old fashioned passion and commitment.
I find this in many sports now. I used to watch snooker and tennis particularly back in the 70's,'80's,'90's, it was exciting.I only watch snooker now if Ronnie O Sullivan is playing for example.generally, it's just about safety,winning 'quietly', technicality over raw ambition.
Too many teams in football trying not to lose rather than win. We are in that position now,and fans are voting with their feet.

[Burnley1989]

Football has been moving away from its roots for thirty years, remember Fergie complaining about the “prawn sandwich brigade” moving in. Football is now paying the price for pricing many of its core supporters out of the market. The middle class may have the money but they also have other interests. When I was working at John Cottons the sole conversation at breaks was football… the workers lived from one game to the next, they wore last seasons kit under their overalls and booked half days to get to away games….

Great point

[Burnley1989]

Football has been moving away from its roots for thirty years, remember Fergie complaining about the “prawn sandwich brigade” moving in. Football is now paying the price for pricing many of its core supporters out of the market. The middle class may have the money but they also have other interests. When I was working at John Cottons the sole conversation at breaks was football… the workers lived from one game to the next, they wore last seasons kit under their overalls and booked half days to get to away games….

The more i think about this the more depressing it becomes.
The powers that be want to appeal to those with deeper pockets, but as you say, they've often enough money to pick & choose games and also often have a lot more things to do away from football.
Games gone, the footballs boring, i'm off for a bath to re-evaluate my hobbies