Is It High Time For A Premier League Division Two?

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:52 am

I know it's an argument that's been made often before
and people have views for and against.

We all know that if we get promoted, it'll be the usual
unequal struggle against an immediate drop back.
There'll be the same hammerings against the big clubs, interspersed with the odd bright spot now and again.
It'll be the same for Leeds, Sheff U, Sunderland, etc. or whoever joins us.

Indeed, watching Ipswich last night reminds us that, once again, in all probability, the three promoted teams will be the ones taking the drop, and so on, and so on.

I don't pretend that a PLD2 would be the solution to all modern footballs ills, and how you would decide who goes in which division, maybe the bottom few in the PL and the top few in the Championship.

But surely we can't go on and on like this, with the current system only benefiting the huge clubs. The gap is just too big now.

Thoughts?

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:54 am

Not at all. Keep it as it is. There's a lot of money with the current set up.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:57 am

Three little words...

NO NO NO

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:58 am

In essence the Premier league is quite boring and the only good stuff is watching the likes of City implode and the really good stuff played by Liverpool, it's bland and to a formula as dictated by Pep.
A prem 2 would still result in small teams struggling and dropping down.b

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:03 pm

A cursory glance at the Premier League table would suggest it’s currently a very competitive division. Why would you want to change that?

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:04 pm

No.

What difference would it make anyway?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:06 pm

Such a plan would require the current PL money to be split between more teams, which is unlikely to happen.

If it were to happen, PL 2 would get a smaller share, as the appeal of watching, say Swansea v West Brom (or Burnley, let's be honest) is never going to be high. So teams promoted from PL 2 are going to be at the same disadvantage as Championship sides are now.

ArmchairDetective · Post by **ArmchairDetective** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:18 pm

Don't see how it would make a difference. But I'd happily listen to an argument for/against it.

blatherwickstattoos · Post by **blatherwickstattoos** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:27 pm

No. The bubble will burst now FFP is coming into play more and more. City’s downfall is proof.

Deathtrip · Post by **Deathtrip** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:55 pm

Bosscat wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 11:57 am
Three little words...

NO NO NO

Those are three big words

Deathtrip · Post by **Deathtrip** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 1:02 pm

I think a Premier league division two is a silly idea it would be the Championship under a different name the same inequalities would be around and we would still get shafted by the big six still being their greedy self important selves.

ClaretPete001 · Post by **ClaretPete001** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 1:32 pm

I think we are reasonably well placed to have another go at the PL. We spent 7 or so seasons in it and only got relegated because of the ALK deal.

And if ALK had done what Southampton have done and sacked VK before Xmas we may well have taken advantage of the points deductions and survived. ALK had a 'mare last year and we suffered as a consequence. Even so, we started the season with a squad far too good for the Championship.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 1:45 pm

We already have a Premier League Division Two and a Division 3 and Division 4 for that matter. They're called The Championship, League One and League Two.

Folkestoneclaret · Post by **Folkestoneclaret** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 1:58 pm

The over-funded elite will eventually form a European super-league. Given another few years it will be a world league. At least then we might see a truly competitive English (or UK even) league which isn't pre-destined to be won by one of just a handful of big money clubs. It's great that the likes of Forest, Bournemouth etc have become at least temporarily established in the Premier league, just as we were under Sean Dyche. But they're not going to win it.

Stonehouse · Post by **Stonehouse** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:10 pm

: IMG_1990.png (432.1 KiB) Viewed 2351 times

So who would have picked these 8 at the start of the season?

Poulton-le-Claret · Post by **Poulton-le-Claret** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:23 pm

An even tighter circle of the same clubs at the top with access to the most money? Not for me!

If anything, I would prefer a bigger PL with more teams in it. The big clubs would never agree though, as their voting rights would be diluted.

Stonehouse · Post by **Stonehouse** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:28 pm

Poulton-le-Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:23 pm
An even tighter circle of the same clubs at the top with access to the most money? Not for me!

If anything, I would prefer a bigger PL with more teams in it. The big clubs would never agree though, as their voting rights would be diluted.

They’re struggling now with all the international breaks I don’t see how a bigger league will suit anyone.

Poulton-le-Claret · Post by **Poulton-le-Claret** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:34 pm

Stonehouse wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:28 pm
They’re struggling now with all the international breaks I don’t see how a bigger league will suit anyone.

Yeah there is no chance it will happen, but more so because of the European games for the top clubs. In reality, it's an unfixable monopoly.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 2:41 pm

blatherwickstattoos wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 12:27 pm
No. The bubble will burst now FFP is coming into play more and more. City’s downfall is proof.

Isn’t FFP being scrapped?

The Hung Juror · Post by **The Hung Juror** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:18 pm

I think it is high time the so called big 6, ****** off to the European Super League and left the rest of us to have a fair, competitive, exciting and meritorious league system.

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:29 pm

The Hung Juror wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:18 pm
I think it is high time the so called big 6, ****** off to the European Super League and left the rest of us to have a fair, competitive, exciting and meritorious league system.

But why would we want this, where no money comes in? Sky aren't going to want to pay clubs the millions when there's a league going on in Saudi Arabia. You can kiss goodbye to the 120+ million. We'd be skint in no time.

Who would want a Burnley side with no money at all, having to sell all our best players, and watch lower league football against poor teams?

It feels like I'm in the minority on here, but I'd take promotion and be at the bottom end of the Prem, than anything else.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:43 pm

Yes.

And let’s call it “the championship”.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:47 pm

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:56 pm

It’s just another change of name.
There was absolutely no need to change it from Div 1, Div 2, etc., In these times that method would make it easier for checking down the pyramid, which is currently a nightmare.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:57 pm

hoosier-daddy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:29 pm
Who would want a Burnley side with no money at all, having to sell all our best players, and watch lower league football against poor teams?

We’ve got the first two

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:12 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 4:57 pm
We’ve got the first two

You know what I mean. We get rid of the teams bringing in the money and we're screwed.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:29 pm

The 3 promoted teams constantly getting relegated and not really competing isn't a great look for the Prem. Not sure what the solution is mind.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:40 pm

jrgbfc wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:29 pm
The 3 promoted teams constantly getting relegated and not really competing isn't a great look for the Prem. Not sure what the solution is mind.

It happened last season but how often have the three promoted teams all immediately gone down?

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:41 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:40 pm
It happened last season but how often have the three promoted teams all immediately gone down?

wasnt last season the first time?

Stonehouse · Post by **Stonehouse** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:43 pm

jrgbfc wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:29 pm
The 3 promoted teams constantly getting relegated and not really competing isn't a great look for the Prem. Not sure what the solution is mind.

Could do a bit of a draught like the states and the clubs that finish in the 3 positions above the relegation spots have first picks for next season and bring back the maximum wage of £50,000 a week and if any club is found guilty of over paying then a immediate relegation the following season and no appeals ,but that what make it more of an even playing field and we can’t have that can we?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:44 pm

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:41 pm
wasnt last season the first time?

I’m not sure but it never happened in the years we were in there.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:46 pm

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:41 pm
wasnt last season the first time?

Apparently the only other occasion was 1998 - Barnsley, Bolton and Crystal Palace.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:49 pm

jrgbfc wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:29 pm
The 3 promoted teams constantly getting relegated and not really competing isn't a great look for the Prem. Not sure what the solution is mind.

The solution is dead easy in my opinion.
Scrap all loan players & go back to 3 subs per game.
Within 2 seasons it would be a far more level playing field.

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:53 pm

Nonayforever wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:49 pm
The solution is dead easy in my opinion.
Scrap all loan players & go back to 3 subs per game.
Within 2 seasons it would be a far more level playing field.

Isn't more subs better for the Prem weaker teams as they are doing more of the chasing?

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:54 pm

hoosier-daddy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:53 pm
Isn't more subs better for the Prem weaker teams as they are doing more of the chasing?

Definitely not.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:27 pm

The money isn’t a problem. But it needs to go further down than the PL, Championship Top 6. Start limiting clubs on signing from overseas and push the money down the leagues.

Ampth7 · Post by **Ampth7** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:30 pm

Stonehouse wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:43 pm
Could do a bit of a draught like the states and the clubs that finish in the 3 positions above the relegation spots have first picks for next season and bring back the maximum wage of £50,000 a week and if any club is found guilty of over paying then a immediate relegation the following season and no appeals ,but that what make it more of an even playing field and we can’t have that can we?

Unfortunately, we don’t have anything like the collegiate system that American sports get to pick the best talent from each year. The standard of sport in America at College level is truly remarkable which allows the draft to be such a success in helping to level the playing field somewhat.

Instead, talented young footballers across the world including the UK generally get snapped up by academies, hence why teams like Chelsea for example probably have hundreds/thousands of 8-21 year olds on their books.

In response to the OP, I don’t think splitting the prem into 2 would help make a difference at all, because it doesn’t address the ongoing problems surrounding the distribution of money flowing through the game. As is the case in society, the rich will just get richer!

The game as a whole clearly recognises this as a growing problem hence the introduction of FFP and PSR. To its credit these schemes, whilst not perfect, have (temporarily) stopped teams like Newcastle from being able to use their oil-rich owners/country from spending whatever they like, much the same as these teams in Saudi have been doing.

I’m sure Newcastle fans and owners are extremely unhappy at this outcome, but they have basically missed the boat in the sense that teams like City and Chelsea before them had carte blanche to spend billions. Thankfully though, as we all now know, City appear to fallen foul of the rules, and whilst I very much doubt they will be relegated from the league, it will be interesting to see how it plays out once the lawyers have had their pound of flesh. Whatever the outcome, City will be left with a bloodied nose and they will have to be more careful moving forwards I suspect.

Ultimately, I don’t see what else can be done to level the playing field across the football pyramid. The game has got too much money and corruption riddled through its core, so in the end, we will continue to see the big clubs winning each year.

For Burnley, this will inevitably continue to leave us as a yo-yo type of club which may be able to secure Premier League football on a semi-regular basis because we simply can’t compete financially against the other 19 teams in the top tier.

Holtyclaret · Post by **Holtyclaret** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:33 pm

I’ve thought for a good while that the three promoted sides should be given a pardon for relegation in the first year up. The next three worse teams being relegated.

Promoted teams then have more chance to acclimatise but are fairer game to go down the 2nd year should they fail to do so.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:39 pm

Holtyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:33 pm
I’ve thought for a good while that the three promoted sides should be given a pardon for relegation in the first year up. The next three worse teams being relegated.

Promoted teams then have more chance to acclimatise but are fairer game to go down the 2nd year should they fail to do so.

That might just be the daftest suggestion I've ever heard on here.

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:49 pm

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:39 pm
That might just be the daftest suggestion I've ever heard on here.

Until your next post.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:53 pm

hoosier-daddy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:49 pm
Until your next post.

This coming from someone who has friends who BS him and likes the five subs rule.

Okay, Frank!

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:00 pm

No idea what that means, but stop being so insecure.

Love you soft lad. Have a great new year!

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:15 pm

hoosier-daddy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:00 pm
No idea what that means, but stop being so insecure.

Love you soft lad. Have a great new year!

You've a short memory if you don't know what I'm referring to, Frank.

It was only today when you made your latest inane comments.

Ta-ra!

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:18 pm

Bring on the European Super league, better still let's have an Arab Emirates League. Get the filthy rich clubs out of here, our leagues would be far better for it.

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:24 pm

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:15 pm
You've a short memory if you don't know what I'm referring to, Frank.

It was only today when you made your latest inane comments.

Ta-ra!

As you say... From this point on we agree to never speak to each other. Ta-ra!

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:35 pm

hoosier-daddy wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 5:53 pm
Isn't more subs better for the Prem weaker teams as they are doing more of the chasing?

No. The top x clubs sign up tremendous players on fabulous salaries and 5 subs is the way they keep them sweet. Even on the bench they get PL minutes occasionally.
They are far too good to be bench warmers and could be starting for the next tier of clubs down, which would spread the points around more. It all filters down through the divisions letting fans around the country watch a better class of player and a better quality team.

jos · Post by **jos** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:09 pm

Man Utd are no longer considered a top six club.

Holtyclaret · Post by **Holtyclaret** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:10 pm

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 8:39 pm
That might just be the daftest suggestion I've ever heard on here.

what’s your solution then Einstein? Something needs to be changed.

hoosier-daddy · Post by **hoosier-daddy** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:12 pm

Holtyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:10 pm
what’s your solution then Einstein? Something needs to be changed.

The lad is clueless. He knows nothing about football. So pleae don't bite.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:16 pm

Holtyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:10 pm
what’s your solution then Einstein? Something needs to be changed.

If it was that simple, they'd have already suggested it, but things like a salary cap or a limitation on foreign players, like we used to have, are more sensible suggestions than yours.

What would be the incentive for players of a promoted side to give 100 per cent, if they know there is no downside to finishing bottom of the league?