Parker - In or Out

[dougcollins]

Let's not pretend that Dyche was ever setting out to entertain anybody.

[willsclarets]

I still don't think he's the right man long term, I don't think his signings really fit the ALK model. Even if we scrape our way to promotion, we've got to fork out 11m on Jaidon Anthony, a staggering amount for a really bang average player. Touching 40m in fees for Hannibal (9m), Flemming (6m), Humphreys (13m), Anthony (11m), Laurent (1m) and Worrall (5m), that's a whole lot of money for what? top 10 level Championship players with little potential (Humphreys aside).

I preferred the old recruitment in general:
5m combined for Benson and Anass or 11m for a bog standard 1 in 4 Championship level Jaidon Anthony.
9m on Hannibal or 12m for a PL level Berge, Cullen was 2m.
Tella loan or Sarmiento.
5m on Joe Worrall or 5m for Ekdal and Al Dakhil combined.
4m on Houndonkey or 3m on Churlinov (we didn't see the best of Darko but he's clearly got more ability than Hountondji)

The only real big misses were Tresor and Foster, but we made enormous profit on the rest to cover those losses and significantly more. It felt like we were bringing in players who COULD be good enough for the PL. It just felt like we got the balance wrong last season, it didn't need ripping up completely, it was still successful in finding good players.

Right now it feels like we've potentially ****** away an absolute fortune on players who definitely aren't and never will be good enough for the PL. It puts us on the back foot instantly. 40m potentially spent in the summer and we still look way short, we can't create clear openings against utter shite like Stoke, QPR, Preston, Plymouth at home, I dread to think what a PL game would look like.

I think you're underrating a few of the players and/or comparing unfairly. Berge was signed once promoted so can't really compare with players signed prior like Hannibal. Who is 21 and has potential.

Jaidon Anthony is not as bad as you're making out by any stretch, and quite possibly much more useful in the Premier league than either Benson or Anass. Remember Benson didn't get a sniff in the Premier league.

I'm not saying we made bad signings under kompany. The loan signings especially of Tella, THB and Maatsen were masterstrokes. I absolutely loved Beyer, and obviously Cullen. Some of the permanent signings were exciting, but there's a difference between exciting and effective in the top division as a promoted side. Worrall is an example used above. Not the most graceful, but would I want him or Ekdal/Al Dakhil in the side for a relegation crunch game? Only one choice for me.

I get the frustration with the entertainment, but I think that's separate to our readiness for the premier league. I'd already give this squad a better shot at survival.

[Burnley1989]

I think you're underrating a few of the players and/or comparing unfairly. Berge was signed once promoted so can't really compare with players signed prior like Hannibal. Who is 21 and has potential.

Jaidon Anthony is not as bad as you're making out by any stretch, and quite possibly much more useful in the Premier league than either Benson or Anass. Remember Benson didn't get a sniff in the Premier league.

I'm not saying we made bad signings under kompany. The loan signings especially of Tella, THB and Maatsen were masterstrokes. I absolutely loved Beyer, and obviously Cullen. Some of the permanent signings were exciting, but there's a difference between exciting and effective in the top division as a promoted side. Worrall is an example used above. Not the most graceful, but would I want him or Ekdal/Al Dakhil in the side for a relegation crunch game? Only one choice for me.

I get the frustration with the entertainment, but I think that's separate to our readiness for the premier league. I'd already give this squad a better shot at survival.

Pretty much my feelings also

[Big Vinny K]

Churlinov v Hootinanny ?
One of the great footballing debates of the last few decades.

As for the “ALK model” who knows what the hell that is anymore ? - the owners and the board don’t seem to.

Unless that model was to p-iss off 90% of the team that got us promoted, spend £150m on 32 wingers and get thumped every week….only to sell 32 wingers and then start all over again with a completely different manager and type of player purchase….in which case the model is working beautifully

[BurnleyFC]

Pivotal point for Mr Parker today.

Win and he becomes an instant hero. Avoid defeat and the majority will be happy. Lose and the discontent will only start to grow.

[burnley007]

Pivotal point for Mr Parker today.

Win and he becomes an instant hero. Avoid defeat and the majority will be happy. Lose and the discontent will only start to grow.

Absolutely.

[Row x]

Churlinov v Hootinanny ?
One of the great footballing debates of the last few decades.

As for the “ALK model” who knows what the hell that is anymore ? - the owners and the board don’t seem to.

Unless that model was to p-iss off 90% of the team that got us promoted, spend £150m on 32 wingers and get thumped every week….only to sell 32 wingers and then start all over again with a completely different manager and type of player purchase….in which case the model is working beautifully

They didn't choose to change manager

Had he not left the players leaving might not have left, or certainly not as many

[Blyclaret]

Let me remind all those who will decide on Parker win loose or draw. This is only one game in a long season. I would settle for a loss but get promoted.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The worst we can be after today is 3 points off automatic and only Watford of the top eleven to play away.

Any discussion about Parker’s job is thus incredulous and totally moot.

[Murger]

The worst we can be after today is 3 points off automatic and only Watford of the top eleven to play away.

Any discussion about Parker’s job is thus incredulous and totally moot.

Disagree. If we lose today with the type of performance that was served up at home to Stoke, there will be a growing number of unhappy fans (whether you agree or not).

[KRBFC]

He hates him, says Jay Rod is complete dogger, says Foster is god awful, yet says Parker is losing the plot by playing Flemming as a striker. Just about sums him/her up.

What do you mean I hate him? that's a little strong, I have absolutely no feeling towards Hountondji apart from I think he's way out of his depth as a footballer. I just say what I see.

[dsr]

Let's not pretend that Dyche was ever setting out to entertain anybody.

Dyche's way of winning was far more entertaining than Parker's. Both his promotion seasons involved much more goalmouth action and goals than the current season, and (for all the talk about quality football) it's getting the ball into the box that gets the fans on their feet, not the 45-pass moves that finish with the goalkeeper.

[billyhamilton82]

The negative poster decides that this is the day to bring this thread to the top at 12.30 in the morning on the day of the derby lol

Genuine question, Rovers fan ??

Then the bandwagon of negativity join in to twist facts and attempt to make an argument that is so full of holes that its laughable.

[Bosscat]

out

Wish you were

[CoolClaret]

FOUR MORE YEARS!

[billyhamilton82]

IN

[RVclaret]

In

[Lakeland Claret]

In

[Clovius Boofus]

Look at some of the recent comments this thread. Embarrassing or what. We have some right tossers on here.

[BurnleyFC]

Instant hero.

Even better for ******* off fat boy Eusless.

[beeholeclaret]

Look at some of the recent comments this thread. Embarrassing or what. We have some right tossers on here.

Agree with this.

Just fuming at some of the comments earlier on this thread.

Things aren’t perfect but as a new manager Parker had to establish his authority with the players under his control. It takes time and the same goes for new players fitting into his system. He seems to go about his business in a calm manner and from the snips we see he seems popular with the players which is more than can be said about the previous manager last season.

It’s not always pretty but until he gets a squad of players that he wants there will be ups and downs,

UTC

[taio]

In

[ElectroClaret]

You've got to remember that he had the core of the team/squad sold out from under him
two or three games into the season.

The way it's been rebuilt is nothing short of remarkable.

[appleton]

Try watching the Sheffield United away game.

Fair enough more entertaining, and another headed goal btw, and Saturday's win raised my spirits together with Barnes's return.... Can I change my vote to uncertain?

[Claret53]

For those who are underrating SP's achievements this season - and there seem to be quite a number of them on UTC - just consider the Arsenal v Newcastle cup tie. Newcastle had, when out of possession, one man up and showed just how difficult it can be to break down a team playing a lowish block and a 5 man midfield. It's difficult to be creative and the low block nullifies pacey players such as Koleosho.
But what you can't ignore and shouldn't underestimate is that we don't get caught by quick counterattacks, by and large, and have an absolutely exceptional defensive record.
If some games seem boring, the primary blame is on teams which just come to sit in and defend and hope for a flukey breakaway goal. Many times in the VK promotion season, when we faced this approach, games seemed to be heading for a stalemate until quite late on. Benson's goals turned a number of games. Not many players can do that. At least, not ones whom we can afford.
So, credit where it's due, please. SP is doing a very good job.

[Colburn_Claret]

I've been trying to remain positive about SP, but it is very hard.

I understand all the arguments for retaining him. He took on an almost impossible task after the window, has run with it, and the league table would suggest success. I really do want him to succeed, because that means Burnley are successful, and that's what we all should want.

On the other side I have never, ever, been as bored with our style of play as I have this season particularly at home. He got latitude because of the rebuild job he was doing, but I'm still waiting for it to bear fruit. From Preston to Stoke it's been crap. Watching Out Of My Tiny Mind on You Tube brings it home. Against 9 of the bottom half of the table we've scored 4 goals from open play. Plymouth alone concede on average 3 goals every game, we needed a penalty to avoid another 0-0. We needed a 94th min penalty to avoid another 0-0 against Swansea. It's possible to play brilliant, and end up with a 0-0 draw. It's football, it happens, we've all seen it. We haven't been unlucky, we've just been crap. The reason I call it crap is because we have the players to be so much better than that, to really go for it at home, only we don't. When I saw the line up for the Stoke game, I said it had 0-0 written all over it, I wasn't alone in thinking that. It was obvious before a ball was kicked.

I'm not saying I want Parker out, but he has to sort the issue of our home form, and the problem isn't just because opposition put 10 men behind the ball, it's because of HIS negative tactics in dealing with it.

[houseboy]

Why is this thread still open? You want a manager to achieve. He’s achieving after an awful start. What more do people want. If people want all action football apparently Accy Stanley is great, if you want to watch lower league two football.
I suppose we could get rid and bring Fat Sam out of retirement. I’d rather watch winners than entertaining losers any day.

[burnley007]

Why is this thread still open? You want a manager to achieve. He’s achieving after an awful start. What more do people want. If people want all action football apparently Accy Stanley is great, if you want to watch lower league two football.
I suppose we could get rid and bring Fat Sam out of retirement. I’d rather watch winners than entertaining losers any day.

It's probably still open because this is a forum and people are discussing the team's style, entertainment and results.

Maybe we should just ask you before any threads are opened? You could vet them?

[Blyclaret]

It's probably still open because this is a forum and people are discussing the team's style, entertainment and results.

Maybe we should just ask you before any threads are opened? You could vet them?

Just waiting for our manager to make a mistake so you can start the drivel again.

[Holtyclaret]

I've been trying to remain positive about SP, but it is very hard.

I understand all the arguments for retaining him. He took on an almost impossible task after the window, has run with it, and the league table would suggest success. I really do want him to succeed, because that means Burnley are successful, and that's what we all should want.

On the other side I have never, ever, been as bored with our style of play as I have this season particularly at home. He got latitude because of the rebuild job he was doing, but I'm still waiting for it to bear fruit. From Preston to Stoke it's been crap. Watching Out Of My Tiny Mind on You Tube brings it home. Against 9 of the bottom half of the table we've scored 4 goals from open play. Plymouth alone concede on average 3 goals every game, we needed a penalty to avoid another 0-0. We needed a 94th min penalty to avoid another 0-0 against Swansea. It's possible to play brilliant, and end up with a 0-0 draw. It's football, it happens, we've all seen it. We haven't been unlucky, we've just been crap. The reason I call it crap is because we have the players to be so much better than that, to really go for it at home, only we don't. When I saw the line up for the Stoke game, I said it had 0-0 written all over it, I wasn't alone in thinking that. It was obvious before a ball was kicked.

I'm not saying I want Parker out, but he has to sort the issue of our home form, and the problem isn't just because opposition put 10 men behind the ball, it's because of HIS negative tactics in dealing with it.

Did we not bear fruit at Shef Utd, Stoke, Bristol city, wovers, Shef weds, Norwich and others. At home we’ve had some good games/halves/periods of play but largely come up against teams more than happy, in fact ecstatic to escape with a point. We’re also unbeaten at home thus far this year. Our home atmosphere is atrocious which really doesn’t help (no surprise we’re better away from home).

You also give no acknowledgment of the clean sheets and a defence that’s firmly set to deliver record all time stats in the second tier.

It would be freakish to expect every single aspect of our play to be 100% perfect after sp has only had several months in charge and overseen such a disruptive and massive series of personnel changes and aftermath of VK’s short reign. The sense of entitlement to expect perfection so quickly is just odd.

Would you rather were gung-ho like Boro? Winning a few then losing a couple.

The transfer window has only just opened and we’re two in and three out thus far, it was obvious there was too much to squeeze into the summer window and we ran out of time so little could be done until now.

What did you think of the Dyche years?

Personally I feel sp is over-achieving UTC

[Mattster]

Personally I feel sp is over-achieving UTC

I'd be interested to hear which teams you think have stronger first elevens and squads than ourself for you to consider Parker to be overachieving?

[Leisure]

it's because of HIS negative tactics in dealing with it.

Which are?

[louieollie]

It's probably still open because this is a forum and people are discussing the team's style, entertainment and results.

Maybe we should just ask you before any threads are opened? You could vet them?

PLEASE find a new agenda it's so so soooooooooooooo tedious

[boatshed bill]

Why is this thread still open? You want a manager to achieve. He’s achieving after an awful start. What more do people want. If people want all action football apparently Accy Stanley is great, if you want to watch lower league two football.
I suppose we could get rid and bring Fat Sam out of retirement. I’d rather watch winners than entertaining losers any day.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I quite like some aspects of our style of play now, the slick short passing is a pleasure to watch as is the excellent defending. There's more to football than the highlights.

[warksclaret]

Two great managers had a similar philosophy in defending. The great Brian Clough who won two European Championships (with a number of lower league players), that if you concede a goal you will always score points. Alex Ferguson always said that keeping a clean sheet was more important than scoring. We had a situation where after the training period in Europe where Parker got to know the squad, a significant number of our better squad were sold or let go, leaving him and the club to find replacements in about two weeks. Around 40 going and joining yet people criticise, and only Chelsea in history have conceded fewer goals. We have beaten some of the best teams on their own ground and he has created a brilliant relationship with our squad , and has created the best transparency both pre and both games. Yes I get frustrated during some games but miracles have been achieved with the players we have and in absence of having several serious attackers with our key competitors in a stronger than us in this area

[Holtyclaret]

I'd be interested to hear which teams you think have stronger first elevens and squads than ourself for you to consider Parker to be overachieving?

The league table clearly shows the best 3/4 teams/squads.

Irrespective of squad value and depth we could quite easily be mid table after such a damaging season as last year and tumultuous as his first couple of months must have been.

The shef utd game shows how quickly he’s blended half a squad of shell shocked players and a load of new players whilst fostering a new sense of harmony and togetherness.

Great management and some effort.

[Mattster]

The league table clearly shows the best 3/4 teams/squads.

Irrespective of squad value and depth we could quite easily be mid table after such a damaging season as last year and tumultuous as his first couple of months must have been.

The shef utd game shows how quickly he’s blended half a squad of shell shocked players and a load of new players whilst fostering a new sense of harmony and togetherness.

Great management and some effort.

Yeah but which are stronger than ours for it to be overachievement?

Or is it purely down to relegation and player turnover but otherwise we're where we should be?

[Colburn_Claret]

Which are?

Fair question

His insistence on playing 1 man up top. Fleming is good, but he needs to play off a striker

The over reliance on wingers who fail to get behind the defence to pull the ball back, instead of knocking the ball past a defender they try to run through them, it doesn't work..

Because of the same failure of not getting to the byline crosses are coming in from between the halfway line and penalty box, meat and drink to any average centre half.

The often lack of numbers in midfield, that prevent Brownhill from pushing forward where he can get into the box more often. ALA the Stoke game

BUT most of all the incredibly slow build up play, which allows the opposition to set there defence up before we even offer an attack. History has shown, even this season, that we look far more dangerous when we move the ball around at pace. The slow, slow, slower, slower, slow is mana from heaven for the opposition.


I'm not ignoring the obviously fantastic defence we've got, but if we fail to go up it won't be because of the defence, it will be because we created nothing against some of the worst teams in the division.

[Colburn_Claret]

Did we not bear fruit at Shef Utd, Stoke, Bristol city, wovers, Shef weds, Norwich and others. At home we’ve had some good games/halves/periods of play but largely come up against teams more than happy, in fact ecstatic to escape with a point. We’re also unbeaten at home thus far this year. Our home atmosphere is atrocious which really doesn’t help (no surprise we’re better away from home).

You also give no acknowledgment of the clean sheets and a defence that’s firmly set to deliver record all time stats in the second tier.

It would be freakish to expect every single aspect of our play to be 100% perfect after sp has only had several months in charge and overseen such a disruptive and massive series of personnel changes and aftermath of VK’s short reign. The sense of entitlement to expect perfection so quickly is just odd.

Would you rather were gung-ho like Boro? Winning a few then losing a couple.

The transfer window has only just opened and we’re two in and three out thus far, it was obvious there was too much to squeeze into the summer window and we ran out of time so little could be done until now.

What did you think of the Dyche years?

Personally I feel sp is over-achieving UTC

I loved the Dyche years, he was pragmatic and got the best out of a very cheaply put together squad. Until his last 6 months, when I thought his refusal to go out and try and win games from the off was killing us.

As for playing like Boro, you are straw clutching we have a lot better squad, that can produce an awful lot more than we are (home form wise), and I'd remind everyone you get a lot more points winning 2 and losing 1, than you do drawing 3.

[GetIntoEm]

Fair question

His insistence on playing 1 man up top. Fleming is good, but he needs to play off a striker

The over reliance on wingers who fail to get behind the defence to pull the ball back, instead of knocking the ball past a defender they try to run through them, it doesn't work..

Because of the same failure of not getting to the byline crosses are coming in from between the halfway line and penalty box, meat and drink to any average centre half.

The often lack of numbers in midfield, that prevent Brownhill from pushing forward where he can get into the box more often. ALA the Stoke game

BUT most of all the incredibly slow build up play, which allows the opposition to set there defence up before we even offer an attack. History has shown, even this season, that we look far more dangerous when we move the ball around at pace. The slow, slow, slower, slower, slow is mana from heaven for the opposition.


I'm not ignoring the obviously fantastic defence we've got, but if we fail to go up it won't be because of the defence, it will be because we created nothing against some of the worst teams in the division.

You've also clearly made lots of that up too

[Leisure]

Fair question

His insistence on playing 1 man up top. Fleming is good, but he needs to play off a striker - But with Foster having been out for quite a few games, who would you have played as a striker?

The over reliance on wingers who fail to get behind the defence to pull the ball back, instead of knocking the ball past a defender they try to run through them, it doesn't work.. - not sure just what Parker can do about this? Koleosho has been very disappointing.

Because of the same failure of not getting to the byline crosses are coming in from between the halfway line and penalty box, meat and drink to any average centre half.

The often lack of numbers in midfield, that prevent Brownhill from pushing forward where he can get into the box more often. ALA the Stoke game - How should he get more players in midfield?

BUT most of all the incredibly slow build up play, which allows the opposition to set there defence up before we even offer an attack. History has shown, even this season, that we look far more dangerous when we move the ball around at pace. The slow, slow, slower, slower, slow is mana from heaven for the opposition. - but we still manage to take points off most teams


I'm not ignoring the obviously fantastic defence we've got, but if we fail to go up it won't be because of the defence, it will be because we created nothing against some of the worst teams in the division. - agree but he doesn't have any creative players at his disposal

[Colburn_Claret]

You've also clearly made lots of that up too

I've no need to make anything up, that's what I see. If you don't agree fair enough, but I've no axe to grind that requires fabrication. Lots of our fans think we've been boring at home. They probably have their own list of the reasons why, but it doesn't make it any less valid.

[Colburn_Claret]

Houtondji, Jay Rod, one of the youngsters. You pick your best striker, because he is better than a gap in the pitch.

Re Koleosho, my brother was reminding me. Last season when he did so well, he'd stand defenders up. Stop in front of them so they stopped, throw a dummy, then knock the ball past them and beat them in a foot race. He got to the byline regular against better players. Now he just runs into defenders, he either loses the ball or gives away free kicks.

I posted last week we either need to go 3 at the back, or drop one of the ineffective wingers. Play Cullen, Brownhill, Laurent, Sarmiento/Hannibal and anyone of them can push forward without fear of leaving a hole in the middle of the park.

It's not most teams that is concerning, our away form has been overachieving. It's our home form, against lesser teams that is the worry. We can and must do better. We should be walking the league with our away record, and as I've said it isn't as if we've been unlucky, we haven't deserved any more than we've got.

AND if SP doesn't have any creative players, then how do the rest of the league manage to score against these lesser teams so easily. We have a lot more quality than most. We set up to disappoint, that is why I find it so hard to take.

[Holtyclaret]

Yeah but which are stronger than ours for it to be overachievement?

Or is it purely down to relegation and player turnover but otherwise we're where we should be?

We could have a squad of maradonnas and being where we are is an over achievement, in the circumstances of our last 18 months.

There’s a human element involved in footy that has seen many a strong squad struggle.

[Mattster]

We could have a squad of maradonnas and being where we are is an over achievement, in the circumstances of our last 18 months.

There’s a human element involved in footy that has seen many a strong squad struggle.

This is a whole lot of words to avoid answering the question about which squads are better than ours.

[Holtyclaret]

This is a whole lot of words to avoid answering the question about which squads are better than ours.

I’ve already said top four are the four strongest, didn’t put them in order.

I’m only really bothered about ours and we’ve just made Shef Utd look very ordinary in their own backyard.

[BigGaz]

He's in for me, and that is completely on merit. He deserves the chance to lead us to the Premier League, and at least a season if he gets us there. He also, barring a monumental collapse, deserves the chance to lead us again in the championship if we don't go up.

I also agree he's been dealt a shitty hand.

The one thing that I'm inclined to disagree with is that once he's got the side playing how he wants after getting them gelling and all the players he wants that we're going to finally marry our defensive mastery to some irresistible attacking. We're not. Fulham and Bournemouth fans told us what we were getting - that we would be defensively solid and give little away but we'd struggle to create chances and it would often be a tough watch. This is his football and whether you like it or not you should find ways to enjoy it as long as he's here because it's not going to change too much.

[RVclaret]

#Fulham & #Bournemouth fans getting another shout out. Just need a mention of #Southgate for Bingo here.

[Mattster]

I’ve already said top four are the four strongest, didn’t put them in order.

I’m only really bothered about ours and we’ve just made Shef Utd look very ordinary in their own backyard.

Cool, so would you swap squads with Sheffield United?

[Holtyclaret]

Cool, so would you swap squads with Sheffield United?

As said, couldn’t give a monkeys about their (or anybody else’s) squad, don’t know many beyond first team.

I’m just enjoying watching our team come together as the season progresses, quite a journey from where we were v Sunderland.