Attack attack attack !

[Woodleyclaret]

Why we didn't go for the win from the off instead of this 0-0 crap .

[burnley007]

images (33).jpeg (20.58 KiB) Viewed 3268 times

Why we didn't go for the win from the off instead of this 0-0 crap .

[ClaretFelix]

I'll go against the grain a little in that I can appreciate a structured set up, a solid defensive Base and defending from the front.

However, I feel the players themselves need to take more responsibility for the often negative way we set up in games, notably when in possession.

It shouldnt take a little bloke in an expensive jacket on the sidelines to identify when to go for the jugular, or when we should gamble a little more when in possession.
These are pros who should see when opposition are on the back foot and dropping deep and it's this missed opportunities that are killing us.

Yes, I'll have that Parker is very pragmatic in his approach, and drills certain instructions into the players, but they need to be less robotic and use their own footballing intelligence to put their foot on the gas at times

[JohnDearyMe]

Because we have the most boring manager in our history. We played like we were plucky underdogs desperate for a point

[tarkys_ears]

"t'best defence in Europe"

"Ooo we can't expect to win against t'arsend o't league."

"T'entitlement of fans these days"

"Remember't Orient game!"

[Vincent'sCap]

Parker won't be around if we go up will be a case of thanks for everything but your not for us bye, mind numbing tactics.

[welsbyswife]

I can understand the tactics for the first 15-20 mins of an away game to kill the crowd, slow the game down etc. But this goes on the whole match. Trafford taking 30 seconds to take every goal kick before passing sideways to Steve or CJ. Then rotate to Steve takes the goal kicks at the point the ref is about to get ****** off enough to book Trafford. Same with throw ins. First man to the ball rarely takes them but drops the ball to let someone else have a go. Waste a few seconds. Top teams get it straight in because the longer you wait the space has gone.

All capped off yesterday by the bizarre sight of Trafford rolling around pretending to be injured with 15-20 mins to go when the whole ground knew there was nothing wrong with him. We were happy with a 0-0 clearly. I can only think that the above comes from Parker as a deliberate tactic, unless Trafford's ego has overtaken him to a point where he just wants to be the centre of attention. If so, he needs a senior pro to have a word.

I have been sympathetic to Parker early on due to the chaos he inherited. But he needs to start changing approach now. There's a compete lack of urgency in our play.

[Goliath]

Just to play devil's advocate, we have the best away record in the division, it's hard to argue with that. It's at home where we need to alter the approach.

[Ric_C]

Few things that are starting to worry me

1. The way we play, even though defensively sound, would be extremely exposed in the Premier League if we went up. Similar to VK, we are still playing it slowly out from the back (or trying to) way too much. Surely we would need to change the setup here in the Prem as we would just get picked off.

2. This was meant to be our season of relief after our horror show last season. Coming off the back of our worst home season in our history, season ticket holders are jaded, and expect more at home than 10 draws and 6 0-0's. This would be palatable if, in those games we showed ambition to go out and win the game.

3. I'm really starting to think that not getting promoted this season might be in all our best interests, and have this season as a bit of a regroup. I know finances etc blah blah, but if we stayed down and sold Esteve and Trafford, surely that would give us a base to get together a really competitive squad that is more balanced and Parker can fine tune (similar to Leeds this season). I'll bow to our financial experts if they think not going up this season would be a disaster, but I'm not sure I'm looking forward to squeaking up through the play offs with this team then getting absolutely rinsed next season.

Of course there is another option in where we bring in Edwards and a decent number 9, we go up and then bring in good solid recruits and really give it a go in the prem next season, and that's the option I guess ultimately everyone wants, but at the moment I just can't see it when we are getting troubled tactically from championship fodder.

[welsbyswife]

I'm not convinced that changing personnel without changing approach and tactics would make much of a difference. Edwards might be good but unless you have full backs getting up to support or midfield players bursting forward the front line will continue to look isolated. That's becoming the worrying thing about Parker for me is that all he seems to do is swap one player for another, almost like for like. He virtually never changes tactics or approach.

[Holtyclaret]

I can understand the tactics for the first 15-20 mins of an away game to kill the crowd, slow the game down etc. But this goes on the whole match. Trafford taking 30 seconds to take every goal kick before passing sideways to Steve or CJ. Then rotate to Steve takes the goal kicks at the point the ref is about to get ****** off enough to book Trafford. Same with throw ins. First man to the ball rarely takes them but drops the ball to let someone else have a go. Waste a few seconds. Top teams get it straight in because the longer you wait the space has gone.

All capped off yesterday by the bizarre sight of Trafford rolling around pretending to be injured with 15-20 mins to go when the whole ground knew there was nothing wrong with him. We were happy with a 0-0 clearly. I can only think that the above comes from Parker as a deliberate tactic, unless Trafford's ego has overtaken him to a point where he just wants to be the centre of attention. If so, he needs a senior pro to have a word.

I have been sympathetic to Parker early on due to the chaos he inherited. But he needs to start changing approach now. There's a compete lack of urgency in our play.

The feigned injury allowed a team huddle with the manager to re group, didn’t bear fruits but that was the intention.

[claretspice]

Few things that are starting to worry me

1. The way we play, even though defensively sound, would be extremely exposed in the Premier League if we went up. Similar to VK, we are still playing it slowly out from the back (or trying to) way too much. Surely we would need to change the setup here in the Prem as we would just get picked off.

2. This was meant to be our season of relief after our horror show last season. Coming off the back of our worst home season in our history, season ticket holders are jaded, and expect more at home than 10 draws and 6 0-0's. This would be palatable if, in those games we showed ambition to go out and win the game.

3. I'm really starting to think that not getting promoted this season might be in all our best interests, and have this season as a bit of a regroup. I know finances etc blah blah, but if we stayed down and sold Esteve and Trafford, surely that would give us a base to get together a really competitive squad that is more balanced and Parker can fine tune (similar to Leeds this season). I'll bow to our financial experts if they think not going up this season would be a disaster, but I'm not sure I'm looking forward to squeaking up through the play offs with this team then getting absolutely rinsed next season.

Of course there is another option in where we bring in Edwards and a decent number 9, we go up and then bring in good solid recruits and really give it a go in the prem next season, and that's the option I guess ultimately everyone wants, but at the moment I just can't see it when we are getting troubled tactically from championship fodder.

I certainly think the approach this season is wearying the crowd and I do struggle a bit with our game plan. We don't put the ball at risk enough, we don't play forwards with enough purpose and we don't move dynamically enough in the final third. It's not just about numbers in the box - it's also about aggressive runs that commit defenders to create space in our build up play. Partly that is about personnel - we've lacked quality at times, and hopefully we can address this before the window closes - but it is also about game plan and intent. I don't think any of Flemming, Foster, Koleosho or Sarmiento, plus arguably Anthony as well, have performed to their capabilities this season and the manager has to take some responsibility for that.

That being said, I don't think all is lost. Edwards looks a potentially exciting acquisition and there is some quality to come back (Ramsey in particular has the potential to add a missing link between midfield and attack).

I also think if we can scramble up this season, there is a template in the team to be successful next season. Ironically given our commitment to a pretty pedantic brand of passing football currently, it almost feels like a team better suited to sitting in without the ball and counter punching when opponents leave space. I think set up like that it moggt need less turnover than we think to be competitive in the Premier League, although any promoted team faces a huge challenge.

[blake's wand]

The football isn't great, but we're playing for fine margins. If we had nicked a goal in two of those 10 0-0s we'd be top of the league.

If we'd have been offered this on the first day of the season I'm sure 99% of people would have snapped the hand off.

I'm sure bit of patience and all will be well. We're 3rd in the league..

[ralph8]

The Manager needs to sort this out pretty rapidly as I can not see him getting another job, after us, with all the extremely negative national press & tv reports of the last week.

[KernowHouseClaret]

The football isn't great, but we're playing for fine margins. If we had nicked a goal in two of those 10 0-0s we'd be top of the league.

If we'd have been offered this on the first day of the season I'm sure 99% of people would have snapped the hand off.

I'm sure bit of patience and all will be well. We're 3rd in the league..

Exactly my thoughts on the whole thing as well, I'd much rather draw 0-0, then press for the win, leave gaps and possibly lose 1-0.

As I keep saying, plenty of other teams would happily swap our position for theirs

[Hibsclaret]

As someone posted further up the away games are not the issue at all. Even the Middlesbrough away game we should have won if Brownhill’s shooting boots were on.

Portsmouth looked decent yesterday and controlled the game for large parts. They were way more aggressive than a lot of our nil nil opponents at home. Yet with a ref that gives a penalty we nick the game when a draw is a fair result.

We need to improve the home form….where we are unbeaten

[welsbyswife]

The feigned injury allowed a team huddle with the manager to re group, didn’t bear fruits but that was the intention.

We'd just had a five minute spell that was probably our best bit of the game with a couple of corners before the break from them then his save. We didn't need to regroup we needed to get on with it.

[Rileybobs]

We'd just had a five minute spell that was probably our best bit of the game with a couple of corners before the break from them then his save. We didn't need to regroup we needed to get on with it.

But the point is that Parker obviously thought the players needed a chatting to hence Trafford being instructed to feign injury. That’s on Parker, not Trafford.

[dsr]

The football isn't great, but we're playing for fine margins. If we had nicked a goal in two of those 10 0-0s we'd be top of the league.

If we'd have been offered this on the first day of the season I'm sure 99% of people would have snapped the hand off.

I'm sure bit of patience and all will be well. We're 3rd in the league..

Remember we would have had 12 nil-nils if Plymouth and Swansea hadn't given us stupid penalties at Turf Moor. Those would be the two "nicked a goal" moments.

[quoonbeatz]

The football isn't great, but we're playing for fine margins.

Which is the problem. We don’t need to be playing for fine margins in this league. It’s a very tough league but we have one of, if not the best, squads by some distance.

We should be far more front-footed than we are.

[welsbyswife]

But the point is that Parker obviously thought the players needed a chatting to hence Trafford being instructed to feign injury. That’s on Parker, not Trafford.

I'm not so sure because Trafford went down on instinct wasn't like Parker had time to tell him to do it. Either way it's symptomatic of our approach under Parker so he has to take ultimate responsibility.

[BigBadBarnes]

The football isn't great, but we're playing for fine margins. If we had nicked a goal in two of those 10 0-0s we'd be top of the league.

If we'd have been offered this on the first day of the season I'm sure 99% of people would have snapped the hand off.

I'm sure bit of patience and all will be well. We're 3rd in the league..

While generally I agree with you, we are seeing increasing evidence that nicking a goal here or there would be fortunate rather than us being unlucky not to get the goal that gives us the 3 points.

I like solid defensive set ups. But I struggle to even see what the plan is when we have the ball. Everything is so static and slow. There's very rarely runs in behind and there is rarely anyone showing for the ball. When those runs are made, it is in isolation rather than as a team creating space for one another. Hence the constant passing between the defender's and goalkeeper before they inevitably have to send it long.

I don't blame the players as it would seem that Parker is happy with what they are doing. He is clearly risk adverse but he needs to find a better balance. For example, why not throw Benson on for the last few minutes yesterday to give it a go? Or Shelvey? Their fitness can't be that bad that they can't be trusted to play 5 minutes. Bringing in a few more players with quality before the deadline will help, but we're relying on moments of magic which just isn't sustainable

[blake's wand]

No doubt we're not creating as much as we want and clearly we'd love to score more, but we also needed quite a few moments of magic in the VK season, Benson scoring at least 3-4 worldies to win games.

We have also been very unlucky in terms injuries with attacking talent. I'm confident we'll start to see more goals as we get players back and maybe add 1-2 in the window.

[Rileybobs]

I'm not so sure because Trafford went down on instinct wasn't like Parker had time to tell him to do it. Either way it's symptomatic of our approach under Parker so he has to take ultimate responsibility.

It would be quite easy for the bench to give a signal to Trafford to go down next time the ball is with him or dead. It’s a deliberate ploy that we see quite often as the keeper doesn’t need to leave the field following ‘treatment’. It needs stamping down on, a simple way would be that the captain has to leave the field for 30 seconds. But either way, it’s not Trafford time wasting - although he is quite good at that.

[fidelcastro]

It would be quite easy for the bench to give a signal to Trafford to go down next time the ball is with him or dead. It’s a deliberate ploy that we see quite often as the keeper doesn’t need to leave the field following ‘treatment’. It needs stamping down on, a simple way would be that the captain has to leave the field for 30 seconds. But either way, it’s not Trafford time wasting - although he is quite good at that.

Do you think it's Parker's instruction for Roberts to feign injury at the merest hint of contact?

[Rileybobs]

Do you think it's Parker's instruction for Roberts to feign injury at the merest hint of contact?

No, I think that’s just Connor doing Connor.

[box_of_frogs]

The play acting from Trafford and Roberts was embarrassing.

[Plissken]

Players going down for treatment after set times in the game (usually 18-20 minutes into a half) is widespread throughout modern football. Arteta for instance instructed the first fouled player after 17 minutes of the first half to stay down for treatment while the rest would go over to him for instructions.

If someone wanted to, they could rewatch the Clarets games and work out the timings.

[claretspice]

Which is the problem. We don’t need to be playing for fine margins in this league. It’s a very tough league but we have one of, if not the best, squads by some distance.

We should be far more front-footed than we are.

I think this is ultimately the point, isn''t it. We have two centre halves who (leaving aside all their other qualities) are probably the quickest in the league. We've got midfielders in Hannibal, Laurent and Brownhill, plus Cullen's undoubted quality, who are quick and capable of covering back if we get caught high up the pitch. You'd think those attributes would mean we'd want to be on the front foot and squeeze the game by maintaining a high line and an intense press and completely suffocate opponents. But we don't. We seem to want to dominate the ball, but not so much territory.

That seems to me to be the biggest difference between this team and Kompany's team. Under Kompany we maintained a really high line and completely overwhelmed opponents. When we got the ball back we were invariably using it from a position of strength as a result. We seem to be timid by comparison. Sure, we might not have quite the quality in the final third that we had under Kompany, but the biggest difference seems to me to be one of mentality. We're not brave in our pressing, we're not brave in our use of the ball and we're not especially brave in our positioning. That may well be because Parker is concerned about vulnerabilities elsewhere (we don't have loads of pace at full back this season), but I think we're good enough and have the right attributes to be trying to play with more intensity higher up the pitch.

Ultimately, we seem a bit confused in our attacking method. We're committed to a patient passing game plan but a large number of our players appear more suited to a higher intensity, more "heavy metal" style of play, or to playing on the counter-attack. Then we've got players like Flemming who appear to have been bought with a view to playing them in a role that they aren't familiar with. In that context - and yes with the caveat that the attacking unit was a bit thrown together at the end of August - it isn't really a surprise that with very limited exceptions (Plymouth away being one, in fairness) we've not looked especially cohesive or clear in our method in attack all season.

Ultimately, something has to change. We've played seven league games since Boxing Day and whilst remarkably, we've not conceded a goal in that time, we've drawn five of those games 0-0. Sure, three of them have been in games where a point was a good result but it's still a damning statistic and it's time we were willing to risk ending that run of clean sheets in order to present a more dynamic and cohesive threat to the opposition - partly to start picking up more points, but also to stop Burnley games becoming utterly tedious. Putting round pegs in round holes, and taking the risk of playing higher up the pitch with more intensity, seems like a fair ask from this squad.

[summitclaret]

Spot on Spice. I have been very patient, but will struggle if it's the same old on Tuesday. It's been acceptable when we win away, but we are going to need at least 92 points to go straight up.

[Goliath]

I think this is ultimately the point, isn''t it. We have two centre halves who (leaving aside all their other qualities) are probably the quickest in the league. We've got midfielders in Hannibal, Laurent and Brownhill, plus Cullen's undoubted quality, who are quick and capable of covering back if we get caught high up the pitch. You'd think those attributes would mean we'd want to be on the front foot and squeeze the game by maintaining a high line and an intense press and completely suffocate opponents. But we don't. We seem to want to dominate the ball, but not so much territory.

That seems to me to be the biggest difference between this team and Kompany's team. Under Kompany we maintained a really high line and completely overwhelmed opponents. When we got the ball back we were invariably using it from a position of strength as a result. We seem to be timid by comparison. Sure, we might not have quite the quality in the final third that we had under Kompany, but the biggest difference seems to me to be one of mentality. We're not brave in our pressing, we're not brave in our use of the ball and we're not especially brave in our positioning. That may well be because Parker is concerned about vulnerabilities elsewhere (we don't have loads of pace at full back this season), but I think we're good enough and have the right attributes to be trying to play with more intensity higher up the pitch.

Ultimately, we seem a bit confused in our attacking method. We're committed to a patient passing game plan but a large number of our players appear more suited to a higher intensity, more "heavy metal" style of play, or to playing on the counter-attack. Then we've got players like Flemming who appear to have been bought with a view to playing them in a role that they aren't familiar with. In that context - and yes with the caveat that the attacking unit was a bit thrown together at the end of August - it isn't really a surprise that with very limited exceptions (Plymouth away being one, in fairness) we've not looked especially cohesive or clear in our method in attack all season.

Ultimately, something has to change. We've played seven league games since Boxing Day and whilst remarkably, we've not conceded a goal in that time, we've drawn five of those games 0-0. Sure, three of them have been in games where a point was a good result but it's still a damning statistic and it's time we were willing to risk ending that run of clean sheets in order to present a more dynamic and cohesive threat to the opposition - partly to start picking up more points, but also to stop Burnley games becoming utterly tedious. Putting round pegs in round holes, and taking the risk of playing higher up the pitch with more intensity, seems like a fair ask from this squad.

It all feels a bit like an Italian style of play. Strong defensively, keep the ball relatively well but from a deep base with a slow tempo. Everything English fans hate

[Newcastleclaret93]

https://x.com/tanziloic/status/18861577 ... cYMQnkX92A

Another link to a winger

[RVclaret]

It all feels a bit like an Italian style of play. Strong defensively, keep the ball relatively well but from a deep base with a slow tempo. Everything English fans hate

Funny enough I watch a fair bit of Napoli as they are my second team and they’ve been the exact same under Conte this season. Top of the league, mind!

[ClaretPete001]

Funny enough I watch a fair bit of Napoli as they are my second team and they’ve been the exact same under Conte this season. Top of the league, mind!

They have a 1 in 2 striker that has done the business in the best leagues in the world but we don't...! That's the difference.

Atletico did something similar as well but you need quality strikers...

[Goliath]

Funny enough I watch a fair bit of Napoli as they are my second team and they’ve been the exact same under Conte this season. Top of the league, mind!

Has he changed his style of play, from what I remember he always preferred quite a direct 343 type system

[1fatclaret]

The football isn't great, but we're playing for fine margins. If we had nicked a goal in two of those 10 0-0s we'd be top of the league.

If we'd have been offered this on the first day of the season I'm sure 99% of people would have snapped the hand off.

I'm sure bit of patience and all will be well. We're 3rd in the league..

But we didn’t and we didn’t look remotely close to nicking one either. It’s not like we’ve been watching enthralling 0-0’s where we’ve stung the keeper’s hands 10 times.

I was ‘told’ the other week what our plan was with the playing out from the back. I know what we’re TRYING to do, but simply IT IS NOT WORKING. We have almost 0 threat. It’s turgid, negative, regressive football and the empty seats and zero atmosphere tells you that we’ve got some big chickens coming home to roost if we don’t get promoted.

[RVclaret]

Has he changed his style of play, from what I remember he always preferred quite a direct 343 type system

Yeah 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 this season, mainly a slow controlled build up, keep winning by a single goal.

[quoonbeatz]

I think this is ultimately the point, isn''t it. We have two centre halves who (leaving aside all their other qualities) are probably the quickest in the league. We've got midfielders in Hannibal, Laurent and Brownhill, plus Cullen's undoubted quality, who are quick and capable of covering back if we get caught high up the pitch. You'd think those attributes would mean we'd want to be on the front foot and squeeze the game by maintaining a high line and an intense press and completely suffocate opponents. But we don't. We seem to want to dominate the ball, but not so much territory.

That seems to me to be the biggest difference between this team and Kompany's team. Under Kompany we maintained a really high line and completely overwhelmed opponents. When we got the ball back we were invariably using it from a position of strength as a result. We seem to be timid by comparison. Sure, we might not have quite the quality in the final third that we had under Kompany, but the biggest difference seems to me to be one of mentality. We're not brave in our pressing, we're not brave in our use of the ball and we're not especially brave in our positioning. That may well be because Parker is concerned about vulnerabilities elsewhere (we don't have loads of pace at full back this season), but I think we're good enough and have the right attributes to be trying to play with more intensity higher up the pitch.

Ultimately, we seem a bit confused in our attacking method. We're committed to a patient passing game plan but a large number of our players appear more suited to a higher intensity, more "heavy metal" style of play, or to playing on the counter-attack. Then we've got players like Flemming who appear to have been bought with a view to playing them in a role that they aren't familiar with. In that context - and yes with the caveat that the attacking unit was a bit thrown together at the end of August - it isn't really a surprise that with very limited exceptions (Plymouth away being one, in fairness) we've not looked especially cohesive or clear in our method in attack all season.

Ultimately, something has to change. We've played seven league games since Boxing Day and whilst remarkably, we've not conceded a goal in that time, we've drawn five of those games 0-0. Sure, three of them have been in games where a point was a good result but it's still a damning statistic and it's time we were willing to risk ending that run of clean sheets in order to present a more dynamic and cohesive threat to the opposition - partly to start picking up more points, but also to stop Burnley games becoming utterly tedious. Putting round pegs in round holes, and taking the risk of playing higher up the pitch with more intensity, seems like a fair ask from this squad.

Yes, exactly.

[Bullabill]

It shouldnt take a little bloke in an expensive jacket on the sidelines to identify when to go for the jugular, or when we should gamble a little more when in possession.
These are pros who should see when opposition are on the back foot and dropping deep and it's this missed opportunities that are killing us.

Yes, I'll have that Parker is very pragmatic in his approach, and drills certain instructions into the players, but they need to be less robotic and use their own footballing intelligence to put their foot on the gas at times

Absolutely correct.

Particularly - ".... they need to be less robotic and use their own footballing intelligence to put their foot on the gas at times."