Manchester United

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:46 am

Under Alex Ferguson no one could compete with Man Utd in the PL but as we all know since he left that has changed considerably. They have since brought in some top managers who have struggled to get even near what AF achieved. The emergence of Man City and Arsenal hasn’t helped them of course but they are a shadow of what they used to be and what they should be. No one can disagree that they are still one of the biggest clubs in the world.
But what is the problem? The money for players seems to be there and they have had the top managers but no one seems to be able to get it all to click into place.
Could the problem be Alex Ferguson himself? Does he have too much influence over player transfers, managers etc?
I know a lot on here dislike MU but let’s not turn this into a “ I hate Man U “ thread. Let’s keep it as a genuine football interest in the current goings on at a huge football club.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:54 am

Been widely reported for years that Ferguson does not have any involvement in manager choices or players, his role on the board is simply symbolic.

The problem United have had despite hiring decent managers and having the money for players is that they allowed people with no clue how to run the football side of a club free reign to do what they like for too long and with Ratcliffe coming this will change and you can already see the change with the appointments made in the club such as the ex-Man City CEO and Dan Ashworth.

It will take time but we should see in the coming years United starting to get back towards the top of the league..... unfortunately.

Row x · Post by **Row x** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:55 am

karatekid wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:46 am
Under Alex Ferguson no one could compete with Man Utd in the PL but as we all know since he left that has changed considerably. They have since brought in some top managers who have struggled to get even near what AF achieved. The emergence of Man City and Arsenal hasn’t helped them of course but they are a shadow of what they used to be and what they should be. No one can disagree that they are still one of the biggest clubs in the world.
But what is the problem? The money for players seems to be there and they have had the top managers but no one seems to be able to get it all to click into place.
Could the problem be Alex Ferguson himself? Does he have too much influence over player transfers, managers etc?
I know a lot on here dislike MU but let’s not turn this into a “ I hate Man U “ thread. Let’s keep it as a genuine football interest in the current goings on at a huge football club.

I quite like United and Ferguson, I think they've appointed some poor managers since.

Ronaldo said that when he returned to the club he was amazed that the training routines, nutrition and player monitoring hadn't moved on since he'd left, if true, they will be way behind many clubs in this area, including us, and certainly the big clubs which leaves them with a big disadvantage.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 7:59 am

Football has always gone in cycles. They had been in a long bad one before Fergie and now they are back in another. The constant churning of managers hasn't helped with every new guy having to start wih his predeessors choices.
Long may it continue.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:03 am

One of my let hates is fans obsession with Man Utd being the best again, particularly from pundits, as if their large fan base means that it has to happen. There surely cant be a more entitled fan base in football.
I'm certainly not a fan of City and the way they have gone about it, but like Chelsea before that and Utd before that, they all have their day in the sun.

I had a soft spot for United growing up in the 90's as playing them was something that seemed out of our reach, they were the best team in the world and had some of Englands stars in their team. Plus Champions League games were on ITV.

I've found myself really disliking them over the years though, mainly because they seem to let me down on my coupon too often, for a supposed top club

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:09 am

United had a great era with first Busby and then Ferguson.
European cups, titles, domestic trophies, they were made into superstars, iconic.
But it doesn't last. Rivals watch them and emerge, first it was Leeds then Liverpool and now City. Not long after the Busby era they were relegated.
I've worked with United fans and they expect continued success and it just doesn't happen despite them winning the FA Cup last season that not enough. They see their noisy neighbours and must wonder what's going on there and what isn't going on at old Trafford.
Pep will eventually move on, Haaland will end up in Saudi and someone else will become top dogs.
Who knows it could be United or even us.

Stonehouse · Post by **Stonehouse** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:23 am

Bit of a closet Man U fan however their income transfers have been a joke for years when you see the likes of Liverpool who most of the time sign absolute gems ( Scousers sign VVD United sign Harry Maguire)

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:36 am

Too many prima donnas.
The transfer policy has been awful, the likes of Casemiro who was great, but definitely on a down staircase didn't help. Dalot was so poor against Spurs, but he isn't the only one by a long stretch.
The dressing room has to be poison, the body language on the pitch from the likes of Rashford, is **** poor.

Utd have been trying to plug the gaps for years when what is needed is wholesale changes. Keep the hungry kids, and ship out the rest. It would mean another reset, and another 3 years to build a new team, but if they keep treading water they have no hope.

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:40 am

Almost every single post-Ferguson signing has been a dud, to varying degrees. It’s astonishing.

Clovius Boofus · Post by **Clovius Boofus** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:42 am

They suffer from Entitled Fanbase Syndrome, and massively so. Just look how they turned on Moyes. Even Solskjaer wasn't as bad as they made out. Believe it or not, they were calling for Fergie's scalp after one poor start to a season, and this was well into his successful reign. Horrible fanbase.

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:44 am

They keep falling into the trap of signing names. De Ligt another one, he's another Maguire.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:49 am

Goliath wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:44 am
They keep falling into the trap of signing names. De Ligt another one, he's another Maguire.

Difference being they aren't signing them for astronomical money or on obscene wages now to get their guys. Personally I thought their business in the summer was shrewd compared with recent years.

Lip · Post by **Lip** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:52 am

Here's hoping they carry on signing duds and crap managers.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:54 am

If it’s entitled fans you’re after, you’re looking at the wrong Manc club.

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Wed Oct 02, 2024 9:03 am

CoolClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:49 am
Difference being they aren't signing them for astronomical money or on obscene wages now to get their guys. Personally I thought their business in the summer was shrewd compared with recent years.

It's only shrewd if they are good enough to win the league. De ligt for 40 million doesn't seem to really improve them.
Is Zirkzee really top level material? Wasn't there question marks about his attitude.

Selling Mctomonay, one of the few that looks like a leader. That looked like a mental decision to me.
Jury's out on this new midfielder as well, they were crying out for a Sander Berge, think they missed a trick there.

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:36 pm

Might be looking for a new manager again soon. 2 nil up against Porto to 2-2 currently.

Stonehouse · Post by **Stonehouse** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:46 pm

Playing Devil’s Advocate Whatever you think about them their history is 2nd to none surely the dislike originally comes from envy a bit like us in The Champion as I’m sure that behind Leeds we must be the 2nd hated team as the 22 teams have been green with envy seeing us spend a small fortune this summer compare to the others .

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:50 pm

I think a lot of the issue they have, is that TV money and other clubs increasing commercial nous has closed the gap off the field, and so it is now very much a big 6 or so, when previously it was a rotating cast of which team would be the challenger that year, be it Newcastle, that lot down the road, Leeds, Arsenal, Chelsea, and obviously more recently City.

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:02 pm

They're obviously still one of the biggest brands in football but they have just had no real strategy at the centre of the club for far too long.

Happy to pay extortionate money for average players, far too many ego's, wrong managerial choices- it's a massive list.

It feels like a large core of the squad have been rotten for a long time, and even when they move one on they replace them with an Anthony.

Whitgord · Post by **Whitgord** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:11 pm

Oops now losing 3-2

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:12 pm

Goodbye Erik.

Poulton-le-Claret · Post by **Poulton-le-Claret** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:18 pm

Could be a great shout from Van Nistelrooy opting for the United assistant job over potentially becoming our manager. Might get a crack as interim manager if ETH gets the boot.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:21 pm

Liverpool have been great, won 2 trophies.
Arsenal, we’ll see. If they don’t this season then Arteta will be gone.
No real need to panic tbh. There’s always one team that dominates and right now that’s Man City.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:23 pm

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:54 am
If it’s entitled fans you’re after, you’re looking at the wrong Manc club.

I probably agree in whole or in part with every comment on this list except this one - unless you are talking about Salford when they were non league or fc United of Manchester, both of whom seemed to suffer from the same sickness as man u fans for a few years. Wonder why.

You rarely hear city fans bleating about how they deserve to be the best/winning things just because they are city. They might think that their team deserves to win the league etc, but that's mainly because they do.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:54 pm

Poulton-le-Claret wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:18 pm
Could be a great shout from Van Nistelrooy opting for the United assistant job over potentially becoming our manager. Might get a crack as interim manager if ETH gets the boot.

I said at the start of the season that Nistelrooy will be United manager by Christmas.

Whitgord · Post by **Whitgord** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:55 pm

United grab an equaliser

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:55 pm

Dyched wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:21 pm
Liverpool have been great, won 2 trophies.
Arsenal, we’ll see. If they don’t this season then Arteta will be gone.
No real need to panic tbh. There’s always one team that dominates and right now that’s Man City.

I think there might be more buy-in to the idea of an ETH "project" if it wasnt just so aimless. Like there is some improvement in midfield options, some signings have been unlucky, but for every good signing there has been an Anthony......

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:56 pm

Raggiest side in history.

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:56 pm

Ten Hag masterstroke with his subs.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 5:45 am

Yesterday's news with the best publicity department in history.You still get kids in Manure shirts in every war zone and disaster area in the World making their owners millions. That's how they can afford flops like Sancho and Anthony.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 7:46 am

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:36 am
Too many prima donnas.
The transfer policy has been awful, the likes of Casemiro who was great, but definitely on a down staircase didn't help. Dalot was so poor against Spurs, but he isn't the only one by a long stretch.
The dressing room has to be poison, the body language on the pitch from the likes of Rashford, is **** poor.

Utd have been trying to plug the gaps for years when what is needed is wholesale changes. Keep the hungry kids, and ship out the rest. It would mean another reset, and another 3 years to build a new team, but if they keep treading water they have no hope.

Rashford would only end up feeding them.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 7:55 am

timshorts wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:23 pm

You rarely hear city fans bleating about how they deserve to be the best/winning things just because they are city.

Reading their forums many seem to think there is a conspiracy against them regarding the 115 charges and there should be no rules in place regarding contracts and payments etc.

RHansburyEsq · Post by **RHansburyEsq** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:57 am

I don’t mind city fans on the whole. They have complete plonkers like we do of course, possibly the younger generation are/will become like United fans and there are undoubtedly glory seekers. But many of them have been to the bottom (or at least League 1) and I find they have at least a passing knowledge of football outside the big 6/champions league. I detest the clubs ownership stricture/financial doping etc though.

I also have a soft spot for United through family connections but find their fans on the whole much more annoying. Far more of them you start a conversation about football and it transpires they are armchair know it alls etc.

I have a sense that Radcliffe will sort United out but will take a lot of time. So much wrong structurally. They’ve not had quality in senior off the field positions. They’ve drifted and stood still (which means being left behind) and then looked for quick fixes which have just compounded the situation.

Enola Gay · Post by **Enola Gay** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 5:33 pm

It all just looks like a higher profile version of the delusion at Ewood to me.

Rovers were bumbling around doing four-fifths of f'all for years until Walker came along and turned them into something else. Rovers fans convinced themselves that top-end Premier League was their rightful place and forgot that their normal level was several levels below that.

Similar to this, Manchester United were basically a Northern version of Spurs between the Busby and Ferguson managerial spells; spend a lot, win the odd Cup here and there at best. There's an argument to be made that their post-Ferguson status isn't so much the end of an empire as regression to the mean.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 5:44 pm

I’ve got a feeling Radcliffe only cares for the regeneration of Old Trafford project.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 5:55 pm

Have they decided whether to knock OT down and build a new stadium, or re-develop it?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 6:18 pm

Enola Gay wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 04, 2024 5:33 pm
It all just looks like a higher profile version of the delusion at Ewood to me.

Rovers were bumbling around doing four-fifths of f'all for years until Walker came along and turned them into something else. Rovers fans convinced themselves that top-end Premier League was their rightful place and forgot that their normal level was several levels below that.

Similar to this, Manchester United were basically a Northern version of Spurs between the Busby and Ferguson managerial spells; spend a lot, win the odd Cup here and there at best. There's an argument to be made that their post-Ferguson status isn't so much the end of an empire as regression to the mean.

That could be said of all clubs.

Liverpool have one league title in decades, Man City hadn't won anything in recent times until they got took over. Newcastle centuries ago. Arsenal, likewise post Wenger.

MrTopTier · Post by **MrTopTier** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:29 pm

Further cost cutting measures.

Paddy Power getting it spot on

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DF-YYTOi ... YyM3M2OGNp

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:34 pm

The fans beg for shite like Ronaldo, Mourinho, every other flop theyve got/had.

...then they complain when they're no good and blame the owners for "not spending".

Couldn't make it up really.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:27 pm

Hujlund sounds like Halaand so must be worth £50m and Anthony £89+m did anyone watch him first before signing?
United have bought some serious duds and teams have had their pants down on lots of deals
Anyone will struggle to get a tune out of them.

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:33 pm

tarkys_ears wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 12, 2025 3:34 pm
The fans beg for shite like Ronaldo, Mourinho, every other flop theyve got/had.

...then they complain when they're no good and blame the owners for "not spending".

Couldn't make it up really.

This is so true . I used to live in the South East (funnily enough in St Albans) and therefore had a long commute for our home games. Generally I would stop for a coffee at Stafford services where, if Man United were playing at home, I’d see their southern-based fans walking around in their shirts . From “Di Maria” to “Memphis” to “Alexis” I’ve seen the flops’ names on the back ….. hundreds of millions laid out on “stars” who have turned out to be virtually useless.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:35 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:27 pm
Hujlund sounds like Halaand so must be worth £50m and Anthony £89+m did anyone watch him first before signing?
United have bought some serious duds and teams have had their pants down on lots of deals
Anyone will struggle to get a tune out of them.

Antony played for Ten Hag at Ajax before Ten Hag joined United so knew him pretty well, from what I've read Ten Hag told the board to not go above a certain price but the more desperate United got they paid way over the top, shocking signing

ArmchairDetective · Post by **ArmchairDetective** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:40 pm

From what bits have been said (e.g. By Ronaldo as posted above) they seem to have fallen behind other clubs when it comes to the off field stuff. They can sign all the names they want and give them a salary to match but if they don't get the culture, training, sport science, scouting etc right then they'll continue to fall behind. If those reports are true, then if they go the opposite way and bring in young up and coming players, which I think they have gone through periods of doing, then they're setting them up to fail. That's my outsider perspective anyway.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:42 pm

ArmchairDetective wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:40 pm
From what bits have been said (e.g. By Ronaldo as posted above) they seem to have fallen behind other clubs when it comes to the off field stuff. They can sign all the names they want and give them a salary to match but if they don't get the culture, training, sport science, scouting etc right then they'll continue to fall behind. If those reports are true, then if they go the opposite way and bring in young up and coming players, which I think they have gone through periods of doing, then they're setting them up to fail. That's my outsider perspective anyway.

Agree 100%. But it’s so difficult to do all that whilst successful. Things get overlooked.

CalamityClaret · Post by **CalamityClaret** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:52 pm

Has any manager in history been gifted the talent of Giggs, Sharpe, Scholes, Neville x 2, Butt and Beckham? A truly superb manager, of that there is no doubt. He didn't half get lucky with that lot from the youth team though.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:58 pm

CalamityClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:52 pm
Has any manager in history been gifted the talent of Giggs, Sharpe, Scholes, Neville x 2, Butt and Beckham? A truly superb manager, of that there is no doubt. He didn't half get lucky with that lot from the youth team though.

Fergie reinvented United teams over and over, I think he's the best manager to ever manage in the premier league, even Pep doesn't come close in my eyes and I despise United. Would other managers have even thrown all the class of 92 in together like he did?
Peps probably the best coach but this season has shown he can't rebuild a team when it's needed.
Barca were the best before him.
Bayern were the best before him.
City had won the league and cheated with the biggest budget.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:59 pm

They’ve been almost laughable for a number of years and have not really had a truly capable side since Mouriniho ,with the likes Pogba,Lukaku,Matic,Zlatan et al . JM even stated his 2nd place was “ the biggest achievement of his career” due to the “ behind the scenes issues” . Jose was duly dispatched after a poor start in his 3rd season , though delivered 2 champs league campaigns ,a league cup and a Europa league success in 2 seasons .
As others have stated , they’ve paid world class prices for unsuitable players ,seem to have abandoned their structure and ultimately ( and critically) have totally lost their aura .

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:06 pm

CalamityClaret wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:52 pm
Has any manager in history been gifted the talent of Giggs, Sharpe, Scholes, Neville x 2, Butt and Beckham? A truly superb manager, of that there is no doubt. He didn't half get lucky with that lot from the youth team though.

Fergie set up the youth system that brought them together and brought them along.

A small part might be fortune but mostly it was hard work and judgement - much of it directly attributable to Fergie. Not only did he set up the scouting network, he also set up the coaching teams and instilled the culture of professionalism and the work ethic that turned these promising youngsters into world beaters.

Liverpool arguably had just as talented youngsters in the likes of McManaman, Carragher, Redknapp, Fowler, Gerrard and Owen.

One side won zero PL titles, one side hoovered them up.

It wasn't luck.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:17 pm

The issue is that the ownership are commercially minded and not football minded. Under Ferguson they could leave the football decisions to him and David gill, but when they left, they were rudderless on the football side of things and when they had players kicking up a fuss, they put their commercial head on and the manager has bitten the bullet rather than problematic players (pogba being a good example). This has allowed the culture of players downtooling when they get fed up of a manager to seep in and the cancer has grown in the club from there on in.

Maybe this will change with ratcliffe calling the shots and they’ll go back to backing the manager over players again.

Conroy92 · Post by **Conroy92** » Wed Feb 12, 2025 6:09 pm

I think it's no one thing. More a cumulation of bad decisions on and off the field.

But if I had to put my finger in the driving thing behind most of them.
The fear of getting left behind and not being the biggest club in the prem.

It's seen them change managers who weren't particularly doing bad jobs (Mouriniho) it's seen them spend millions bringing individual talent in and flopping (Anthony) and it's seen the fans critize the clubs position in relation to your likes of City and Liverpool.

Man United are a club who have tried desperately to keep up with the pack, from a leading position by throwing money at it without any real plan behind the scenes. And realistically it's difficult to have a plan when you've not got a stable manager figure at the club.

They need to pick a fresh manager, not from the same elite merry go round of managers and build from the bottom up, they don't have to "start again" because of the wealth and support. But they should clear out the playing squad and back a new managers philosophy. Until they do this they are going nowhere.