Russia Invades

[GetIntoEm]

We generally holiday in the places where Russians still travel, met good and bad. Usually the benefit Brits are the worse types

[AlargeClaret]

I’ve only holidayed in 2 actual places I’d class as pure unadulterated utter fake bling trash holes , ( Dubai and Peurto Banus) and both were rammed with Russians . That said they seem to keep very much to themselves, not rowdy or loud types. Spent few months in Volgograd yrs ago, they’re feckin miserable, tight fisted , corrupt b@stards for sure .

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/russias-elite ... 08446.html
More unrest.

[RalphCoatesComb]

The sad thing is, if aliens landed tomorrow, we humans would all become brothers in the fight to free earth no matter what our politics or religion.

You think so?

What percentage of our own population would fight if some evil regime (No names) was to invade us?

[JohnMcGreal]

You think so?

What percentage of our own population would fight if some evil regime (No names) was to invade us?

It's probably irrelevant. The more likely scenario is that an evil regime is actually installed by the growing number of radicalised crackpots who live and vote here.

[RalphCoatesComb]

thanks Ralph, great info. fascinating. glad I stumbled across this.

I would make the article essential reading for any Geo-Politics Course. For those who haven't seen it, here is the link again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gxssycoxz0

Putin miscalculated, very badly, at Ukraine's response. He is unable to extricate himself, and his failing economy, from the mess that he created. It's almost as if he's waiting for Donald Trump, dressed as John Wayne, to ride over the horizon and save him. There's a meme I'd like to see

Ukrainians are fighting an existential war against a bully. I just hope they can hold out long enough for the Oligarchs to see Putin off. Then the fun bit starts!

[NewClaret]

Couple of things occur to me here.

Firstly, Russia are at their weakest and weakening every day. They’ve lost 70% of their alleged total manpower at the start of the war through death or injury, to the point they’re reliant on conscripts or other nations supplementing their army. Whilst there’s no signs that this supply can’t continue, it’s hard to imagine other countries will keep being so willing to offer men up to slaughter for Russia’s war.

They’ve been invaded themselves and now have Russian territory occupied by Ukraine, albeit a small amount, lost control of Syria, and their weapons and machinery have taken huge losses. Whilst they can source more from other nations and manufacture more themselves, they can’t replace that as easily or quickly as men - and there’s no way they can sustain the rate of losses equipment losses over the last three years.

Secondly, Ukraine have never looked stronger. They’re using drones to hit targets 1000s of kilometres in to Russia, are holding Russia everywhere despite a far smaller army, but critically are now getting supplied so much of the promised weaponry from the EU and US - with much more to come.

I’d like to see Trump end this war quickly and I can’t see him wanting to continue or expand aid to Ukraine given his comments to date, but I hope that doesn’t mean Ukraine have to agree to an unjust end to the war when they’re looking strong. Hopefully Zelensky will try and take the upper hand on the battlefield somehow ahead of negotiations.

And I particularly hope however this ends it’s not just a chance for Russia to rebuild their army and go again in another 5 years! We need a lasting peace.

[HahaYeah]

It's probably irrelevant. The more likely scenario is that an evil regime is actually installed by the growing number of radicalised crackpots who live and vote here.

It already has been, in the 4th of July 2024 general election.

[GetIntoEm]

You think so?

What percentage of our own population would fight if some evil regime (No names) was to invade us?

I reckon I'd take my chances and side with the aliens over this government

[AlargeClaret]

I would make the article essential reading for any Geo-Politics Course. For those who haven't seen it, here is the link again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gxssycoxz0

Putin miscalculated, very badly, at Ukraine's response. He is unable to extricate himself, and his failing economy, from the mess that he created. It's almost as if he's waiting for Donald Trump, dressed as John Wayne, to ride over the horizon and save him. There's a meme I'd like to see

Ukrainians are fighting an existential war against a bully. I just hope they can hold out long enough for the Oligarchs to see Putin off. Then the fun bit starts!

Putin didn’t miscalculate Ukraine’s response as such , but he massively miscalculated how much the US and NATO would contribute in sheer $$ , high end equipment , ordinance and above all ( imo) tech which has enabled UKR to seriously match and stretch RUS . While UKR is a laughably corrupt sh1thole , they have every right to defend their nation in any way they can .

[Hipper]

Couple of things occur to me here.

Firstly, Russia are at their weakest and weakening every day. They’ve lost 70% of their alleged total manpower at the start of the war through death or injury, to the point they’re reliant on conscripts or other nations supplementing their army. Whilst there’s no signs that this supply can’t continue, it’s hard to imagine other countries will keep being so willing to offer men up to slaughter for Russia’s war.

They’ve been invaded themselves and now have Russian territory occupied by Ukraine, albeit a small amount, lost control of Syria, and their weapons and machinery have taken huge losses. Whilst they can source more from other nations and manufacture more themselves, they can’t replace that as easily or quickly as men - and there’s no way they can sustain the rate of losses equipment losses over the last three years.

Secondly, Ukraine have never looked stronger. They’re using drones to hit targets 1000s of kilometres in to Russia, are holding Russia everywhere despite a far smaller army, but critically are now getting supplied so much of the promised weaponry from the EU and US - with much more to come.

I’d like to see Trump end this war quickly and I can’t see him wanting to continue or expand aid to Ukraine given his comments to date, but I hope that doesn’t mean Ukraine have to agree to an unjust end to the war when they’re looking strong. Hopefully Zelensky will try and take the upper hand on the battlefield somehow ahead of negotiations.

And I particularly hope however this ends it’s not just a chance for Russia to rebuild their army and go again in another 5 years! We need a lasting peace.

I wouldn't agree with either of those points that I've highlighted in your fourth paragraph.

Russia are making small gains on most fronts and have been since the failed Ukraine offensive in 2023. I don't know how the Russians see the Kursk gambit but it seems to me more a political then strategic attack. If it's aim was to draw away Russian units from other fronts so reducing their advances it doesn't seem to have worked.

Russian's current aim must still be to exhaust Ukrainian manpower and will, and the West's willingness and finances to support them. They will still want to bring Belarus into the war and seem to be making efforts to do so. I can't comment on Ukraine's manpower but the West's support still seems strong although Trump may have something to say on the matter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0dpdx420lo

[JohnMcGreal]

It already has been, in the 4th of July 2024 general election.

Exhibit A.

[bobinho]

It's probably irrelevant. The more likely scenario is that an evil regime is actually installed by the growing number of radicalised crackpots who live and vote here.

Already happened…

[JohnMcGreal]

Already happened…

Exhibit B.

[Falcon]

Sooooo, experts on here. How stuffed are Ukraine right now?

[Colburn_Claret]

It depends whether Europe allow Trump to dictate terms. If they do then we're all ******, not just Ukraine.

[Vegas Claret]

It depends whether Europe allow Trump to dictate terms. If they do then we're all ******, not just Ukraine.

Trump is dumb, just call his bluff and send a massive fighter launch from every NATO country over Ukraine to "patrol the skies'

[NewClaret]

I think Trump is pretty smart, I can’t be sure though. That or he’s dumb as **** and in Putins pocket in some way too.

I think he’s lulling Putin in to negotiations that he knows he will not engage with properly so he can say to the world that the only way, and justify ongoing and potentially heightened cost to the US Taxpayer. The whole “I tried” routine.

I think he’s currently cosying up to them and saying all the right things so they have no excuses not to come to the negotiating table. But it has the added benefit of giving him leverage in the negotiations about Ukraine’s natural resources, which to be honest I think Europe should also be discussing with them.

On cutting Europe out, seemingly, I’ve just read that they’re considering sending 25-30k troops to non front line positions and that Greece has sent a load of F16s, so he seems to be getting a reaction from them too.

Europe have done a lot but it’s all been just enough and just in time. They need an almighty rocket up their own backsides

In summary, I suspect what we’re hearing is one big charade at the moment.

[evensteadiereddie]

It already has been, in the 4th of July 2024 general election.

Not over it yet, fella?
Bless.

[Vegas Claret]

I think Trump is pretty smart, I can’t be sure though. That or he’s dumb as **** and in Putins pocket in some way too.

I think he’s lulling Putin in to negotiations that he knows he will not engage with properly so he can say to the world that the only way, and justify ongoing and potentially heightened cost to the US Taxpayer. The whole “I tried” routine.

I think he’s currently cosying up to them and saying all the right things so they have no excuses not to come to the negotiating table. But it has the added benefit of giving him leverage in the negotiations about Ukraine’s natural resources, which to be honest I think Europe should also be discussing with them.

On cutting Europe out, seemingly, I’ve just read that they’re considering sending 25-30k troops to non front line positions and that Greece has sent a load of F16s, so he seems to be getting a reaction from them too.

Europe have done a lot but it’s all been just enough and just in time. They need an almighty rocket up their own backsides

In summary, I suspect what we’re hearing is one big charade at the moment.

Wait until Europe closes all the European USAF air bases - that would be the first thing I'd be saying to Trump, and yes, we can all legally do it. That leaves the US absolutely ******

[Stonehouse]

Wait until Europe closes all the European USAF air bases - that would be the first thing I'd be saying to Trump, and yes, we can all legally do it. That leaves the US absolutely ******

And we’ve got David Lammy and some people think Trumps thick,God help us .

[RicardoMontalban]

I think Trump is pretty smart, I can’t be sure though. That or he’s dumb as **** and in Putins pocket in some way too.

I think he’s lulling Putin in to negotiations that he knows he will not engage with properly so he can say to the world that the only way, and justify ongoing and potentially heightened cost to the US Taxpayer. The whole “I tried” routine.

I think he’s currently cosying up to them and saying all the right things so they have no excuses not to come to the negotiating table. But it has the added benefit of giving him leverage in the negotiations about Ukraine’s natural resources, which to be honest I think Europe should also be discussing with them.

On cutting Europe out, seemingly, I’ve just read that they’re considering sending 25-30k troops to non front line positions and that Greece has sent a load of F16s, so he seems to be getting a reaction from them too.

Europe have done a lot but it’s all been just enough and just in time. They need an almighty rocket up their own backsides

In summary, I suspect what we’re hearing is one big charade at the moment.

If that’s the case then it’s a manoeuvre of political dexterity and sleight of hand that Trump has shown zero aptitude or appetite for. He’s effective at what he does, sure. But he’s no Machiavelli.

This is Trump projecting power and Trump redrawing international diplomacy to his strong man worldview. And if he can extricate the US’s commitment in the Ukraine, even better.

There’s been a lot written recently about spheres of influence and I think this is just another episode in the US’s recent volte face in where it sees its priorities. The last four weeks suggests they are not in line with the preceding 80 years. Trump portrays it as a great rip off and swindle, but that policy of aid and security guarantees benefitted them plenty as well.

[Vegas Claret]

And we’ve got David Lammy and some people think Trumps thick,God help us .

Pretty sure the UK won't be making decision on it's own. Trump only responds one way so you have to meet him head on and call his bluff, if you pay attention you would know how many times he has had to back down. He just thinks he can do things because he said it, he's finding out he can't.

[CoolClaret]

I think Trump is pretty smart, I can’t be sure though. That or he’s dumb as **** and in Putins pocket in some way too.

I think he’s lulling Putin in to negotiations that he knows he will not engage with properly so he can say to the world that the only way, and justify ongoing and potentially heightened cost to the US Taxpayer. The whole “I tried” routine.

I think he’s currently cosying up to them and saying all the right things so they have no excuses not to come to the negotiating table. But it has the added benefit of giving him leverage in the negotiations about Ukraine’s natural resources, which to be honest I think Europe should also be discussing with them.

On cutting Europe out, seemingly, I’ve just read that they’re considering sending 25-30k troops to non front line positions and that Greece has sent a load of F16s, so he seems to be getting a reaction from them too.

Europe have done a lot but it’s all been just enough and just in time. They need an almighty rocket up their own backsides

In summary, I suspect what we’re hearing is one big charade at the moment.

He's being played like a fool by Putin, and has been for quite a while.

Putin has quite literally helped manage to get a guy elected for the Republicans through disinfo campaigns, turned GOP sentiment on Russia from that of Nixon & Reagan's ' to them idolising and cosying up to Putin.

This has had destabilising effects not only in America but also in Europe. Putin loves what Trump is doing. He won't believe his luck that this guy is dismantling lasting alliances that took decades upon decades of hardwork & bloodshed to build, for no more than to push his bullshit insular, inward-looking agenda.

Thankfully for us, Putin fired a little too early, and the West was united enough to still support Ukraine in 2022 and not let them crumble (as he thought they would do).

As for now, US isn't a credible, trustworthy ally and we all need to stop pretending like they are or give it 2 years till mid terms or 4 years till the next election. The MAGA movement far supersedes Trump, it's dangerous and is only growing.

[BigChaCha]

by CoolClaret » Mon Feb 17, 2025 5:07 pm

As for now, US isn't a credible, trustworthy ally and we all need to stop pretending like they are or give it 2 years till mid terms or 4 years till the next election. The MAGA movement far supersedes Trump, it's dangerous and is only growing.

All I know is that under Trump's last tenureship, I have never known the world to be so peaceful but under Biden, we had the disastrous and dangerous unconditional withdrawal from Afghanistan which emboldened Putin and caused many other issues...

The world has never been more dangerous than when Biden was in office, with the number of wars and conflicts. So much so that my children regularly asked if there was going to be a WW3...

Trump backing away from further military confrontation with Iran in 2020 after escalating tensions and missile attacks on two Iraqi bases hosting US and coalition troops was absolutely spot on too... He showed restraint not often shown by his opposition in the US...

He has already proven his worth and that the planet is a much safer place under him than Biden and is already showing signs of that being the case with this current White-House stewardship... There is absolutely no contest between Trump and Biden and the world was far more dangerous under Biden, which many a respected historian has backed up with the facts that have been presented to us!

[CoolClaret]

All I know is that under Trump's last tenureship, I have never known the world to be so peaceful but under Biden, we had the disastrous and dangerous unconditional withdrawal from Afghanistan which emboldened Putin and caused many other issues...

The world has never been more dangerous than when Biden was in office, with the number of wars and conflicts. So much so that my children regularly asked if there was going to be a WW3...

Trump backing away from further military confrontation with Iran in 2020 after escalating tensions and missile attacks on two Iraqi bases hosting US and coalition troops was absolutely spot on too... He showed restraint not often shown by his opposition in the US...

He has already proven his worth and that the planet is a much safer place under him than Biden and is already showing signs of that being the case with this current White-House stewardship... There is absolutely no contest between Trump and Biden and the world was far more dangerous under Biden, which many a respected historian has backed up with the facts that have been presented to us!

I see you've also been slurping Kremlin Koolaid as well.

Tell me then, who signed the treaty to initiate the withdrawal from Afghanistan and was impeached for not sending military aid to Ukraine?

[BigChaCha]

by CoolClaret » Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:28 pm

I see you've also been slurping Kremlin Koolaid as well.

Please keep those kinds of comments for the playground and show some maturity!

by CoolClaret » Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:28 pm

Tell me then, who signed the treaty to initiate the withdrawal from Afghanistan and was impeached for not sending military aid to Ukraine?

You are showing mind-boggling ignorance on this subject!... Why even comment if you are not educated on the subject?... Biden carried out a very superficial review of Afghanistan, then completely ignored his top military advisor and the evidence on the ground... Not only that, he completely reversed Trump's conditions-based draw-down policy (hence the mention in my previous post about Biden pulling out 'unconditionally', which seems to have gone completely over your head )...

Biden completely ignored and in fact, carried out the opposite plan put forward by Trump's administration in which the Taliban had to meet specified commitments and conditions... Biden not only did pull out unconditionally as planned, but he failed to provide timelines, ignored Trump's plan completely, went against his top military advisor's advice and failed to inform his main allies in Afgahastian of the pullout along with not helping charities on the ground etc...

Every respected military expert has said it was a disastrous pullout from Biden... And every respected military historian has said it has been a much less safe planet under Biden... I couldn't care less who gets in power in the US, I am not blinded by ideology, I just want someone competent... Trump is not ideal but if anyone thinks Biden was anything short of incompetent and chooses to look at his tenure with favour just because they are on the 'left', then I worry for their cerebral matter!

[mdd2]

It really depends on the detail but if the following is true
1) Ukraine loses the territory it has lost 2) no nato membership ) no U S troops as peace keeper 3) no using article 5 should Russia break the cease fire 4) the iou to US from Ukraine will be £500billion
Makes the Munich declaration of 1938 like a tea party
I fear the present US Government has no knowledge of appeasement and will come to regret the above if it is true as it will be Putin and not Arne who will be back. After UKRAINE will come the Baltic states and Poland
Finally Europe needs to wake up and shift money into defence. A lot of money spent pussy footing on illegal migration and ECHR cases would help if transferred to defence. Need to get back to the 6% defence budget before Glasnot and Peristoika as both facets Putin has shattered.

[CoolClaret]

Please keep those kinds of comments for the playground and show some maturity!



You are showing mind-boggling ignorance on this subject!... Why even comment if you are not educated on the subject?... Biden carried out a very superficial review of Afghanistan, then completely ignored his top military advisor and the evidence on the ground... Not only that, he completely reversed Trump's conditions-based draw-down policy (hence the mention in my previous post about Biden pulling out 'unconditionally', which seems to have gone completely over your head )...

Biden completely ignored and in fact, carried out the opposite plan put forward by Trump's administration in which the Taliban had to meet specified commitments and conditions... Biden not only did pull out unconditionally as planned, but he failed to provide timelines, ignored Trump's plan completely, went against his top military advisor's advice and failed to inform his main allies in Afgahastian of the pullout along with not helping charities on the ground etc...

Every respected military expert has said it was a disastrous pullout from Biden... And every respected military historian has said it has been a much less safe planet under Biden... I couldn't care less who gets in power in the US, I am not blinded by ideology, I just want someone competent... Trump is not ideal but if anyone thinks Biden was anything short of incompetent and chooses to look at his tenure with favour just because they are on the 'left', then I worry for their cerebral matter!

What else do you want me to say?

You're wildly linking points, somehow suggesting that the Afghan withdrawal empowered Putin - laughable!

Actual facts on the Afghan withdrawal here:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timel ... ghanistan/

As for what empowered Putin, that has been appeasing him and legitimising him - from a timid response to his annexation of Crimea to Germany's continued pursuit of energy deals through Nord Stream 2 and resistance to stronger sanctions.

This isn't about Biden, either. He inherited an absolute mess, made some good decisions, and of course, some that will come with scrutiny.

[Clovius Boofus]

6% would mean we have to find an extra 100 billion per annum for our defence budget. Tax would have to go through the roof.

[Colburn_Claret]

We've been over reliant on the US for defence for decades. It's one of the few things I can agree with Trump on.
Europe has to be able to defend itself against Russia, or anyone else for that matter, without America. It will mean spending more money, but needs must.
Trump, in his effort to make America great again, is in danger of just isolating themselves, and losing a position of influence they've enjoyed for 80 years.

The bottom line is if we have to choose between the US or Ukraine, we stick with Ukraine. There will inevitably be consequences, as Trump will probably use trade to punish those who don't kow tow, but personally I'd rather trade with China anyway.

[bobinho]

Thank god Trump got a ‘sit down’ with Putin to try to get some sort of peace deal sorted. Leaving out all the useless and weak European leaders has forced them into a hastily arranged summit (Starmer should be embarrassed it was called by Macron).
How they ‘spin’ being left out of the room I don’t know, but it’s a MASSIVE statement.
Sadly, it may be all the justification these clowns need to put together some sort of European Defence Force… it’s what they’ve been after for years, and the sad thing is, British troops will massively oversubscribed.

Ukraine will be conceding ground in a peace deal, and they won’t want that.

Maybe a different response to the annexing of crimea may have convinced Putin not to risk it.

[The Shire Claret]

I’m old enough now to live through tough moments and public opinion shift from right to left and so on and so fourth …

I find it worrying at this time that public opinion in the US is what it is and there has never been so much division in our country and across the world in a time where we have so much information avalible to us it should not be possible but the tools that should move us forward are knocking us back decades.

Love him or hate him Trump should be no where near running a country nor should Putin

History can’t repeat itself but I fear it’s going that way

[Devils_Advocate]

Please keep those kinds of comments for the playground and show some maturity!



You are showing mind-boggling ignorance on this subject!... Why even comment if you are not educated on the subject?... Biden carried out a very superficial review of Afghanistan, then completely ignored his top military advisor and the evidence on the ground... Not only that, he completely reversed Trump's conditions-based draw-down policy (hence the mention in my previous post about Biden pulling out 'unconditionally', which seems to have gone completely over your head )...

Biden completely ignored and in fact, carried out the opposite plan put forward by Trump's administration in which the Taliban had to meet specified commitments and conditions... Biden not only did pull out unconditionally as planned, but he failed to provide timelines, ignored Trump's plan completely, went against his top military advisor's advice and failed to inform his main allies in Afgahastian of the pullout along with not helping charities on the ground etc...

Every respected military expert has said it was a disastrous pullout from Biden... And every respected military historian has said it has been a much less safe planet under Biden... I couldn't care less who gets in power in the US, I am not blinded by ideology, I just want someone competent... Trump is not ideal but if anyone thinks Biden was anything short of incompetent and chooses to look at his tenure with favour just because they are on the 'left', then I worry for their cerebral matter!

Forget about Biden for a second and look at what Trump did and see the similarities with how he's screwing over Ukraine

Trump struck a deal with Taliban that agreed the release of 500 Taliban prisoners from Afghan prisons of which he had no jurisdiction and too which the Afghan govt objected with Trump just ignoring them

The US stated that as part of Trumps agreement the Taliban pledged not to attack US and coalition forces and not launch any high profile attacks in any of Afghanistan 34 provincial capitals

Despite the agreement he Taliban break the pledge and attack Afghan forces in Helmand province which leads to the US responding with airstrikes against the Taliban

In May 2020 the Defence Inspector General reports that the US have cut troop levels by more than 4000 even though the Taliban has continued to escalate violence contravening the agreement

In Aug 2020 the US defenc department released a further report stating “The Taliban did not appear to uphold its commitment to distance itself from terrorist organizations in Afghanistan. UN and U.S. officials reported that the Taliban continued to support al-Qaeda, and conducted joint attacks with al-Qaeda members against Afghan National Defense and Security Forces.”

In Sep 2020 The Taliban continued attacks on government forces with the Voice of America reporting that “Taliban attacks in three provinces across northern Afghanistan since Tuesday killed at least 17 people, including six civilians, and wounded scores of others even as a Taliban political team was negotiating peace with Afghan government representatives in Doha, Qatar.”

In Nov 2020 Congressional Republicans, responding to news reports that the Trump administration will rapidly reduce forces in Afghanistan, warn of what Sen. Marco Rubio calls “a Saigon-type of situation” in Afghanistan. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says. “A rapid withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan now would hurt our allies and delight the people who wish us harm,”

Still Nov 2020 Acting Secretary of Defence Christopher Miller formally announces that the U.S. will reduce U.S. forces in Afghanistan to 2,500 by Jan. 15, 2021. On the same day, the Defence Department IG’s office released a report for the quarter ending Sept. 30, 2020, that said the peace negotiations between the Afghan government and Taliban representatives had stalled and violence increased. “At the same time, the Taliban increased its attacks against Afghan forces, leading to ‘distressingly high’ levels of violence that could threaten the peace agreement,” the report said.

In Dec2020 — Afghan and Taliban negotiators agree on a framework to govern peace negotiations. “At the same time, the Taliban continued its ‘fight and talk’ strategy, increasing violence across the country to increase its leverage with the Afghan government in negotiations,” the Defence Department IG’s office said a quarterly report covering this period. The IG report also continued to warn that the Taliban was apparently violating the withdrawal agreement. “This withdrawal is contingent on the Taliban abiding by its commitments under the agreement, which include not allowing terrorists to use Afghan soil to threaten the United States and its allies,” the report said. “However, it was unclear whether the Taliban was in compliance with the agreement, as members of al-Qaeda were integrated into the Taliban’s leadership and command structure.”

By Jan 2020 U.S. force levels in Afghanistan have reached 2,500. Miller, the acting defence secretary, says in a statement. “[T]his drawdown brings U.S. forces in the country to their lowest levels since 2001.”

Afghanistan’s First Vice President Amrullah Saleh tells the BBC that the Trump administration made too many concessions to the Taliban. “I am telling [the United States] as a friend and as an ally that trusting the Taliban without putting in a verification mechanism is going to be a fatal mistake,” Saleh says, adding that Afghanistan leaders warned the U.S. that “violence will spike” as the 5,000 Taliban prisoners were released. “Violence has spiked,” he added.

Then it got passed over to Biden. Now I'm not going to defend Biden at all as you are right in that both him and the democrats are warmongers and dangerous however dont be fooled into thinking Trump was handling it with any sense of competence because it was Trump who reduced troops down from 15000 to 2500 whilst the Taliban continued its attacks and violence and continued to allow Al Qaeda terrorists to remain a leading part of the TalibanTaliban

[CoolClaret]

Then it got passed over to Biden. Now I'm not going to defend Biden at all as you are right in that both him and the democrats are warmongers and dangerous however dont be fooled into thinking Trump was handling it with any sense of competence because it was Trump who reduced troops down from 15000 to 2500 whilst the Taliban continued its attacks and violence and continued to allow Al Qaeda terrorists to remain a leading part of the TalibanTaliban

... and the only reason he did it with such pace, whilst ignoring advice is so he could be the guy to say "I got the deal done and got us out of Afghan" / "I got the deal done and Biden and the Dems messed up the withdrawal", delete as appropriate, you know as he does, constantly moving the goalposts...

[Clovius Boofus]

Russia has never been a fan of the West, be that under the czars, bolshevism or oligarchy autocracy. Yeah, there have been treatises from time to time, but only when it suits them.

Good job we have the deterrent, or else we might well end up with the Asiatic Hordes rampaging through mainland Europe towards us.

[Clovius Boofus]

Wrong post.

[bpgburn]

This thread was meant to be for posting the current (factual) status of the war in Ukraine, backed up with links from reputable expert sources. Now it's just gone the way of all the other threads with petty squabbling and disagreements. Ruined after all this time of it being probably THE most readable and sensible thread for a very long time.

[CoolClaret]

This thread was meant to be for posting the current (factual) status of the war in Ukraine, backed up with links from reputable expert sources. Now it's just gone the way of all the other threads with petty squabbling and disagreements. Ruined after all this time of it being probably THE most readable and sensible thread for a very long time.

There was discussions/speculation as well.

This war has now taken a drastically new dynamic with the change in the Whitehouse; a change that could and probably will impact all of us.

[JohnMcGreal]

Thank god Trump got a ‘sit down’ with Putin to try to get some sort of peace deal sorted. Leaving out all the useless and weak European leaders has forced them into a hastily arranged summit (Starmer should be embarrassed it was called by Macron).
How they ‘spin’ being left out of the room I don’t know, but it’s a MASSIVE statement.
Sadly, it may be all the justification these clowns need to put together some sort of European Defence Force… it’s what they’ve been after for years, and the sad thing is, British troops will massively oversubscribed.

Privately I'm sure Starmer is embarrassed.

Embarrassed that the country he leads surrendered what diplomatic power and influence it had in Europe to appease voters like you (presumably).

A decision that looks more idiotic with every passing week.

[mdd2]

6% would mean we have to find an extra 100 billion per annum for our defence budget. Tax would have to go through the roof.

Where has the3.5% gone
It has been frittered away largely on the welfare state I guess if we were to breakdown then and now

[Clovius Boofus]

6% is never going to happen, but it needs to increase given the threat that Russia poses. Should never have been allowed to get so low in the first place, but it's been kept too low for the last 35 years.

[Dark Cloud]

As Shire Claret said above, neither Trump nor Putin are fit and proper people to be running a country. They are egotistical, self orientated, doctorial and anti democratic and they are far more about cult than substance. They are the the kind of leaders we believed were a thing consigned to the history books (except maybe in some African states) and it's scary to realise they aren't and that even in this day and age those kinds of people can prosper. Trump doesn't care about what any deal to end the war means for Ukraine, Europe or anyone else. He just wants to make a deal and claim the "glory" and say he's knocked a few heads together and ended the war and whoever gets dicked in the process is just acceptable collateral damage. He admires Putin because he recognises a kindred spirit and believes he can buddy up to him. Putin, on the other hand recognises a dewy eyed berk when he sees one and realises he can play this berk like a grand piano to get exactly what he wants.

[Newcastleclaret93]

As Shire Claret said above, neither Trump nor Putin are fit and proper people to be running a country. They are egotistical, self orientated, doctorial and anti democratic and they are far more about cult than substance. They are the the kind of leaders we believed were a thing consigned to the history books (except maybe in some African states) and it's scary to realise they aren't and that even in this day and age those kinds of people can prosper. Trump doesn't care about what any deal to end the war means for Ukraine, Europe or anyone else. He just wants to make a deal and claim the "glory" and say he's knocked a few heads together and ended the war and whoever gets dicked in the process is just acceptable collateral damage. He admires Putin because he recognises a kindred spirit and believes he can buddy up to him. Putin, on the other hand recognises a dewy eyed berk when he sees one and realises he can play this berk like a grand piano to get exactly what he wants.

You seem to know them both very well to make that statement.

Or on the flip side are the grown ups in the room going to end a war that has somehow cost USA and Europe 250 billion.

[CoolClaret]

You seem to know them both very well to make that statement.

Or on the flip side are the grown ups in the room going to end a war that has somehow cost USA and Europe 250 billion.

It's impossible to quantify the cost of this war to figures like you/others suggest, nor is it this zero-sum balance sheet, like a household budget.

Some make it out like we literally send Ukraine money, which simply isn't true. They're mainly using surplus equipment which was going to be decommissioned anyway, as well as giving great insight and tangible feedback on development for the new stuff.

It would also cost a heck of a lot more if Ukraine were to fall and as always, there wouldn't have been a war if Putin didn't invade.

[Clovius Boofus]

You seem to know them both very well to make that statement.

Or on the flip side are the grown ups in the room

Oh dear.

[Dark Cloud]

You seem to know them both very well to make that statement.

Or on the flip side are the grown ups in the room going to end a war that has somehow cost USA and Europe 250 billion.

Well if people are putting themselves in the public eye, actively playing and courting the media and mouthing off their opinions and thoughts at every opportunity, we are all going to feel we "know them pretty well".
For sure the war will end at some point and equally surely it's cost and is still costing billions in cash and thousands of lives, but if that ending involves telling Ukraine it's resistance to aggression has all been for nothing and it "loses", simply to massage Trumps ego and allow him to revel in being the "peace broker" with his hooligan mate Putin, it's not really a deal at all. It's simply surrendering to the bully.

[Newcastleclaret93]

It's impossible to quantify the cost of this war to figures like you/others suggest, nor is it this zero-sum balance sheet, like a household budget.

Some make it out like we literally send Ukraine money, which simply isn't true. They're mainly using surplus equipment which was going to be decommissioned anyway, as well as giving great insight and tangible feedback on development for the new stuff.

It would also cost a heck of a lot more if Ukraine were to fall and as always, there wouldn't have been a war if Putin didn't invade.

No idea why we are even involved.

Can’t keep our elderly warm, whilst 3 million kids are living in poverty but we can send billions to Ukraine.

Glad someone is finally opening peace talks regardless of there political stance

[CoolClaret]

No idea why we are even involved.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm

Can’t keep our elderly warm, whilst 3 million kids are living in poverty but we can send billions to Ukraine.

Yeah, we don't send billions in ways like you think to Ukraine, like I previously mentioned.

We certainly can keep the elderly warm, and hopefully (just like the last Labour gov), children will be pulled out of poverty.

[Newcastleclaret93]

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htm



Yeah, we don't send billions in ways like you think to Ukraine, like I previously mentioned.

We certainly can keep the elderly warm, and hopefully (just like the last Labour gov), children will be pulled out of poverty.

How can you justify it Coolclaret When the country is in such a state.

Yes hopefully labour will help the elderly and kids but they need it now. The financial aid we have provided whatever the sum is (clearly in the billions) should be getting spent at home.