Russia Invades

[JohnMcGreal]

There are some genuinely frightening comments on here.

[CoolClaret]

Funny, I was thinking the same about the gullible liberal self righteous narcissistic mob who always know better than anyone else and call anyone elses opinion "stupid" and not to be allowed.

The liberal fruitcakes want this thread to be only an echo chamber of OFFISHAL tRusTed sOuRCes ie: EU propaganda.They live in an absolute clown dreamworld.

Thank the Lord we now have a US president who wants peace and not a blood/money-thirsty corrupt liberal like Biden.

I pray that the war party cabal (Ursula, Macron, Starlin, Green party etc trying to sabotage peace (again) fail miserably and the US and Russia can make a deal to bring lasting peace to the Ukraine.

Tell me how you reconcile in your head Russia making a deal to have 'lasting peace' when they initiated the invasion and have been annexing land since 2008?

[Bosscat]

There are some genuinely frightening comments on here.

Frightening views from some on here for sure ...

[AlargeClaret]

I don’t think anyone on here is a “ Russian sympathiser “ . We all know Putin is a dangerous man . However the way the EU and western media have acted throughout with the most ludicrous propaganda ( every bit as bad if not worse than RUS) is an absolute affront to any balanced viewpoint ,where UKR cannot be criticised and Zelensky is a god .The anti Trump lot have simply taken the opposite line and turned this into “ left vs right “ sh1t throwing contest , seemingly happy to forgo peace at the altar of political ideology. Peace is the absolute must and concessions will have to be made by both sides .

A huge buffer zone and a beefed up NATO along with an armed to the teeth UKR should absolutely crush any further
ideas Putin may have had ( imo ) .

[Stalbansclaret]

I don’t disagree per se with Trump calling Putin to get the ball rolling but on that call Donald should have been telling Vlad exactly what sanctions he and his countrymen would be facing if they didn’t get their tanks off the European lawn and agree to the territory they have illegally taken being returned to Ukraine and a peace deal made whereby they could, for example, pay a market rate to Ukraine for access to their Crimean ports and receive guarantees for the rights of the Russians living in Ukraine.
Peace yes. Conceding territory to a murderous dictator no.

[deanothedino]

This is a multi faceted issue and not as straight forward as you suggest 100% NATO/ the west has had its grubby hands in this from the start but that doesn’t make them the reason for it though. Fundamentally it is purely down to Russia/ Putin deciding to invade and nothing else.

The problem with the perceived NATO expansion etc isn’t straight forward or black and white either that has mainly happened due to Russia having a very bad habit of invading it’s neighbours although we need to accept there is more too it than that.

The situation on the ground at the minute is very much a stalemate with very little movement either way but I find it hard to think that Ukraine have been tactically outclassed if they still have footholds in the majority of the contested regions and Kursk. Who will win in the end will probably come down to willingness to take losses and the ability to replenish them.

As for Trump he is not trying to help anyone other than himself his thought process is purely business and nothing else. I agree with him though that the UK and other European countries have been over reliant on the US for protection and hardware for too long hopefully we will Now start to redress the balance. I hope the peace talks work and there is an end to this with an acceptable settlement. I suspect it will either be rejected by the Ukrainians or we may have the fighting stop but getting dragged into a much larger European conflict with millions of deaths, sadly.

As a defensive alliance the only way in which NATO threatens Russia is that the bigger and stronger it is, the harder it is for Russia to carry out the awful stuff Putin potentially wants to do.

It baffles me how many westerners are anti-NATO and therefore willing to entertain Putin's ridiculous suggestions that NATO somehow left him no choice but to invade a country that Russia promised in 1994 they wouldn't ever invade.

[Devils_Advocate]

I read and reposted a thesis on FB a few months ago, and I'm gutted I can't find it to post on here, it explained it so much better than I will.
Basically it was an American scientist, in the 70s no less, who forecast that one day in the future, nations would be run by big technologies.
He stated the dangers this would present, the disinformation, coupled with publics complete distrust of government and each other. He explained even back then, how divisive these technologies would operate.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but this guy almost had it pat, 50 years ago.

A simple search, couldn't find him unfortunately, brings up loads of recent reports from scientists over the last decade saying the same thing.

When politicians control the narrative/media as well, in this case X, Instagram, FB etc, and have the ability through algorithms to dictate what the reader sees, we are on the slippery slope to hell.


Not Ukraine related, but I've said several times on this forum, that if I had the ability to do just one thing, I'd ban U18s from the Internet. I know it's a pipe dream, but maybe one day we'll wake up and see that dangers.

I might have got you mixed up but Im sure you was one of the people on here showing unwavering support to Israel and swallowing all the propaganda about Hamas and beheaded babies whilst Israel proceeded to wipe Gaza off the map killing anyone in their way (be it children and women)

Its easy to be smug about people like Shaggy and Haha Yeah who are complete loons and talk about U18's but you and a lot of other people are ignorantly blind to what has really gone on in Palestine and who the real warmongers and aggressors are

Someone further up mentioned about Trump and Musk that if you'd have predicted this a few years ago you'd have been seen as mad but lots of us have been predicting this rise in authoritarianism and fascism for a good number of years going back to how Russia influenced and helped fund both Trumps presidency campaign and Brexit.

Posters on here found it far more comfortable to get angry at Gary Lineker than they did around the dehumanising language our politicians (cheered on by the right wing media) used.

Maybe a lot of people need to use the realisation of what Trump and Musk are doing and the situation in Russia as a wake up call and start looking at themselves and what they support on the home front as come the next election if people dont wake up to what is happening we could see far right politics gain power in the UK as it looks to do right across Europe

[mdd2]

As apparently reported no NATO member troops in Ukraine (assume OK for Russia to keep NKorean troops). Keep the land Russia hold in Ukraine and Ukraine ok to join EU but not NATO and we have a peace deal (until we, Russia re-arm and have another go).
Talk of European history being revisited-give it until 2028-9 before he has another go if these are the deals. Once Ukraine is part of EU and Russia take over, Russia have a huge open back door to trade area.
By the time Trump is gone in 2029, unless he fixes the constitution to be President for a 3rd term Russia will be getting ready to annex land between Russia and Kaliningrad region which borders the Baltic sea, Lithuania, Poland with the Suwalki gap/corridor running from Moscow friendly Belarus along the Polish Lithuanian border. An ideal excuse to claim more land and unite the land it gained after WW2 populated it with Russians and kicked out the Germans, with Belarus and thus Russia.

[xxmunkyennuixx]

I don’t think anyone on here is a “ Russian sympathiser “.

There definitely is, reading the comments above. Some nonsense about EU propaganda. Explain Georgia. Explain Crimea. Explain the second assault on Ukraine. Explain Abkhazia. Explain South Ossetia. Explain Transnistria. Explain Skripal. Explain the Russia Report in the Brexit Referendum. The EU caused all of these? Russia was just responding to a perceived threat? Total ********.

Let's return to the phrase "EU Warmongering" and it is a case of if only. If the EU was prepared to step in for Georgia then maybe Crimea does not happen. If the EU was prepared to intervene in the first Crimea incursion then maybe the major conflict in Ukraine does not happen.

I can appreciate the calls for peace from those arguing honestly. The problem is we will end up parking Ukraine in a cold conflict and Putin uses his war economy footing to rebuild his forces to strike another in five years time. The terms being banded around by Trump for Ukraine look worse than those experienced by Weimar Germany. The conditions have been reported in the Telegraph. I don't think peace gets agreed upon.

The position this country is in is invidious. 14 years of austerity means the country is fundamentally broken and our armed forces are enfeebled. This really could not have come at a worse time. Starmer has shown bravery in taking this stance. The easy way out is to appease Russia and bend before the fascists in the US.

[RalphCoatesComb]

This is not difficult.

Putin can stop this war, a war that he started, at any time.

Go back home and take your troops with you, and return the kidnapped children back to their rightful home.

Reparations can be sorted at a later date.

[Terrier]

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ ... s%20at%20a

[jos]

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ ... s%20at%20a

Facts, That’s what I like.

[Stalbansclaret]

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ ... s%20at%20a

Not sure what point you are making but What I took from reading the sentence below is that Ukraine cannot trust any deal Putin stitches up with Donald's assistance. No wonder a west-leaning Ukrainian government wished to join NATO.

Ukraine committed to full disarmament, including strategic weapons, in exchange for economic support and security assurances from the United States and Russia.

[Colburn_Claret]

I might have got you mixed up but Im sure you was one of the people on here showing unwavering support to Israel and swallowing all the propaganda about Hamas and beheaded babies whilst Israel proceeded to wipe Gaza off the map killing anyone in their way (be it children and women)

Its easy to be smug about people like Shaggy and Haha Yeah who are complete loons and talk about U18's but you and a lot of other people are ignorantly blind to what has really gone on in Palestine and who the real warmongers and aggressors are

Someone further up mentioned about Trump and Musk that if you'd have predicted this a few years ago you'd have been seen as mad but lots of us have been predicting this rise in authoritarianism and fascism for a good number of years going back to how Russia influenced and helped fund both Trumps presidency campaign and Brexit.

Posters on here found it far more comfortable to get angry at Gary Lineker than they did around the dehumanising language our politicians (cheered on by the right wing media) used.

Maybe a lot of people need to use the realisation of what Trump and Musk are doing and the situation in Russia as a wake up call and start looking at themselves and what they support on the home front as come the next election if people dont wake up to what is happening we could see far right politics gain power in the UK as it looks to do right across Europe

I'm not sure if it was me or not, but I did side with Israel in the recent conflict. That doesn't mean I support everything Israel did in response, or hold them blameless for past sins/mistakes.
When Hamas entered Israel and killed a 1000 citizens, and took loads of hostages I wasn't being blinded by propaganda, it happened. From then on the responsibility for all the carnage that took place is all down to Hamas.
I feel sorry for the Palestinians, there should be a solution for their predicament, but it won't be solved by Hamas, ever. If Palestinians really want a lasting peace and homeland, the first step is to kick Hamas out. If you allow terrorists to live and hide within your community, then what happened this last year is inevitable.
I don't care about the politics, the religion, the colour of anyone's skin. All terrorists are bastards, they aren't heroes, they aren't brave, they just prey on the weak and helpless.

[deanothedino]

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/ ... s%20at%20a

It’s a shame it misses the Budapest Memorandum off, as that’s the most relevant to Russia invading.

[RicardoMontalban]

The aggressor isn't getting everything they want. Ukraine will obviously have to be party to any agreement for it to work. The EU is largely irrelevant to the deal-making process.

Trump has simply got the ball rolling - nothing else has happened.

The over-reaction to Trump calling Putin is predictable but something needed to happen. The alternative is what? Three more years of grinding misery and hundreds of thousands more dead?

I wonder what are the concessions Russia will be making in all this. Early signs are Ukraine are the ones over a barrel, not the aggressors. Russia on the other hand seem pretty chuffed at the current state of affairs.

I think this is as much about getting the US and Russia back to some normalcy on trade, and the US being free to pull out funding commitments.

As for the EU being irrelevant, certainly in the current administration’s thinking. But given this will be a peace that has potential existential questions for the continent, maybe they shouldn’t be viewed that way.

[Claretnick]

It’s a shame it misses the Budapest Memorandum off, as that’s the most relevant to Russia invading.

It is linked
https://www.securitycouncilreport.org/a ... 4_1399.pdf

[bfcjg]

Could we please stick to the war in Ukraine ? The thread has been self regulating since the start of the war and now it's slipping into bickering about issues nothing to do with the war.

[Stalbansclaret]

Just seen Trump on tonight’s news seemingly blaming Ukraine (or maybe Europe, or both) for not “making a deal” with Russia 3 years ago. No hint of recognition of Russia being the illegal aggressor. Topped off by the bizarre sight of a negotiations table occupied by the USA and Russia alone , the latter represented by a Foreign Minister who has been sanctioned by the USA.
Strange, strange times. The USA is the only real deterrent to Putin choosing to continue his aggressions in future yet Trump seems to be effectively incentivising him given he is more interested in making deals rather than resisting aggression .

[bfcjg]

For Trump it's all about how much he can screw out of Ukraine, he obviously wants to share the spoils with Putin
US and Russia will appoint teams to work towards ending Ukraine war

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/CbbKgn

[Cubanforever]

Trump might as well put a Darth Vader suit on, he seems to be closer to Putin and Russia than his established allies, where this ends not only for Ukraine but every other country around the world Lord knows

[elwaclaret]

Trump might as well put a Darth Vader suit on, he seems to be closer to Putin and Russia than his established allies, where this ends not only for Ukraine but every other country around the world Lord knows

Trump thinks there is money to be made from Russia, it will blind him from everything else; while some of his closest ‘advisors’ have a long history of admiring dictatorships. It will be a while before Americans fully wake up to what they are becoming, we just have to hope that when they do enough care to stop it.

[Cubanforever]

Trump thinks there is money to be made from Russia, it will blind him from everything else; while some of his closest ‘advisors’ have a long history of admiring dictatorships. It will be a while before Americans fully wake up to what they are becoming, we just have to hope that when they do enough care to stop it.

I hope the voters have the intelligence and system inplace to make a sensible choice next time but I wouldn't be surprised if Trump changes the rules a la Putin to stay in charge again, he's making his own news the truth and it's scary how many have bought it. We gave the world "the world wide web" and trusted it not to be abused, a naive move and very difficult to grapple back. Hopefully the real powers that be in America are working on a plan to regain their dignity because we are in for a massive shitshow the world over with morals out of the window on a new scale over the next 4 years and Zelensky and Ukraine alone at the very least deserve more than that.

[Wile E Coyote]

USA is a nation of predominantly slob voters, most dont even vote , but the wealthy media savvy vermin have goaded them into a rich vein of redneck style "Go Trump" hysteria, same slop filters through to the Sun news group simpletons in UK.He is a liar, cheat, duplicitous rogue, but the sloganeering and control of the news ensures he is regarded as somehow worthy of presidential status. Europe has many equally awful leaders, but as a collective, we need to cut ties with the American dominance, reliance on our continent is crucial, and the sooner there is some credible plan to screw the dominance of the dollar, the better for all of us with a hand on democracy.

[Cubanforever]

USA is a nation of predominantly slob voters, most dont even vote , but the wealthy media savvy vermin have goaded them into a rich vein of redneck style "Go Trump" hysteria, same slop filters through to the Sun news group simpletons in UK.He is a liar, cheat, duplicitous rogue, but the sloganeering and control of the news ensures he is regarded as somehow worthy of presidential status. Europe has many equally awful leaders, but as a collective, we need to cut ties with the American dominance, reliance on our continent is crucial, and the sooner there is some credible plan to screw the dominance of the dollar, the better for all of us with a hand on democracy.

Strong words but I won't argue against a lot of that

[Damo]

I read and reposted a thesis on FB a few months ago, and I'm gutted I can't find it to post on here, it explained it so much better than I will.
Basically it was an American scientist, in the 70s no less, who forecast that one day in the future, nations would be run by big technologies.
He stated the dangers this would present, the disinformation, coupled with publics complete distrust of government and each other. He explained even back then, how divisive these technologies would operate.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but this guy almost had it pat, 50 years ago.

A simple search, couldn't find him unfortunately, brings up loads of recent reports from scientists over the last decade saying the same thing.

When politicians control the narrative/media as well, in this case X, Instagram, FB etc, and have the ability through algorithms to dictate what the reader sees, we are on the slippery slope to hell.


Not Ukraine related, but I've said several times on this forum, that if I had the ability to do just one thing, I'd ban U18s from the Internet. I know it's a pipe dream, but maybe one day we'll wake up and see that dangers.

Just wait until you read 1984 by George Orwell

[Damo]

USA is a nation of predominantly slob voters, most dont even vote , but the wealthy media savvy vermin have goaded them into a rich vein of redneck style "Go Trump" hysteria, same slop filters through to the Sun news group simpletons in UK.He is a liar, cheat, duplicitous rogue, but the sloganeering and control of the news ensures he is regarded as somehow worthy of presidential status. Europe has many equally awful leaders, but as a collective, we need to cut ties with the American dominance, reliance on our continent is crucial, and the sooner there is some credible plan to screw the dominance of the dollar, the better for all of us with a hand on democracy.

The wealthy media savvy vermin backed the Democrats.

[Damo]

Trump thinks there is money to be made from Russia, it will blind him from everything else; while some of his closest ‘advisors’ have a long history of admiring dictatorships. It will be a while before Americans fully wake up to what they are becoming, we just have to hope that when they do enough care to stop it.

Biden and his family directly made a fortune by transferring money to Ukraine to fund this war. US tax payers money

[deanothedino]

Biden and his family directly made a fortune by transferring money to Ukraine to fund this war. US tax payers money

Just because you keep repeating something doesn’t make jt true.

[AlargeClaret]

And still the overtly political posts continue. The thread will be locked soon enough at this rate . The thread is about the RUS v UKR war ,and though of course politics surround it , can’t people just drop their agendas and observe and comment ?

MOD - While there is undoubtably politic discussion recently, for the most part it has been reactionary and relevant. We have a good section of various views on the politics behind the current situation now. I’m letting what is up stay (at least for now). Please refrain from turning this into a point scoring exercise now. I think it is reasonable that live events relating to Ukraine are discussed on here, but let’s keep it sensible and current folks.

[Stalbansclaret]

So Trump’s “peace deal” , from what we know so far involves :
1. Russia getting to keep some, or all, of the Ukrainian territory it has illegally taken
2. Ukraine to be unable to join NATO or to have any kind of security guarantee or peacekeeping force on the ground
3. Ukraine to have no say in the above and, indeed, to be vilified for not “making a deal” to avoid the war
4. The murderer Putin and his cronies to be welcomed back into the international community

What will happen if Ukrainians simply say “no thanks” and continue to fight ? Will Donald invade Ukraine ?

[CoolClaret]

So Trump’s “peace deal” , from what we know so far involves :
1. Russia getting to keep some, or all, of the Ukrainian territory it has illegally taken
2. Ukraine to be unable to join NATO or to have any kind of security guarantee or peacekeeping force on the ground
3. Ukraine to have no say in the above and, indeed, to be vilified for not “making a deal” to avoid the war
4. The murderer Putin and his cronies to be welcomed back into the international community

What will happen if Ukrainians simply say “no thanks” and continue to fight ? Will Donald invade Ukraine ?

We need to govern and act like the US is a completely pariah state.

[JohnMcGreal]

So Trump’s “peace deal” , from what we know so far involves :
1. Russia getting to keep some, or all, of the Ukrainian territory it has illegally taken
2. Ukraine to be unable to join NATO or to have any kind of security guarantee or peacekeeping force on the ground
3. Ukraine to have no say in the above and, indeed, to be vilified for not “making a deal” to avoid the war
4. The murderer Putin and his cronies to be welcomed back into the international community

What will happen if Ukrainians simply say “no thanks” and continue to fight ? Will Donald invade Ukraine ?

Not directly I wouldn't think. However he could reduce arms exports to them and even start selling to his master in Moscow.

Something that should be unthinkable.

[RalphCoatesComb]

.He is a liar, cheat, duplicitous rogue

And, a back-stabbing convicted felon

A lot is happening at present and I am trying to hold back on commenting until we see what the final deal looks like. THEN, if it is no good for Ukraine, Europe must take the lead and make a deal that is acceptable to Ukraine. Allowing Putin to advertise a "win" is the worst possible scenario for everyone, except Putin and Trump.

It does appear that Trump is trying to get his own back on Zelenskyy for his "Impeachment". From the BBC 5 February 2020...

President Trump was accused of breaking the law by pressuring Ukraine's leader to dig up damaging information on a political rival. In July 2019, he urged his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate one of the frontrunners to take him on in the 2020 presidential election. This mattered, opposition Democrats said, because it is illegal to ask foreign entities for help in winning a US election. He says he has done nothing wrong. After Mr Trump was impeached in December, a trial took place that could have led to the president being removed. In the end, he was cleared.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

So Trump’s “peace deal” , from what we know so far involves :
1. Russia getting to keep some, or all, of the Ukrainian territory it has illegally taken
2. Ukraine to be unable to join NATO or to have any kind of security guarantee or peacekeeping force on the ground
3. Ukraine to have no say in the above and, indeed, to be vilified for not “making a deal” to avoid the war
4. The murderer Putin and his cronies to be welcomed back into the international community

What will happen if Ukrainians simply say “no thanks” and continue to fight ? Will Donald invade Ukraine ?

In that instance, Trump wants 50% of Ukraine's natural minerals, roughly the equivalent of $500bn. It is strange that it was obvious that this was coming with Trump's election, but I am still shocked that it is actually unfolding like this.

Europe needs to start acting like it is has no US backing now and planning to defend itself, as we know Russia won't stop after this.

[RalphCoatesComb]

Not directly I wouldn't think. However he could reduce arms exports to them and even start selling to his master in Moscow.

Something that should be unthinkable.

Unthinkable to any sane person, but we are talking about DJT here. He does need to be careful though, according to a recent Gallop poll, 61% of Americans believe that Russia is their enemy and less than 10% of Americans have a favourable view of Putin. Trump likes to be liked and he won't want to back the wrong horse here

[Colburn_Claret]

We need to govern and act like the US is a completely pariah state.

If we turn it into an anti US statement then the US media, controlled by Musk, will just use it against us. It won't matter that it's drivel.
It's going to take some fast stepping, but we have to show solidarity with Ukraine, and express our disappointment that the present WH incumbent has forgotten how all this started. Has taken it on himself to treat with Putin, and ignore the Ukrainians wishes.
There's no point calling Trump an egotistical idiot, name calling won't resonate with the American public, we have to show them that the rest of the world doesn't agree with him, and if that means creating a new order of defence, without any American influence, then so be it.
If America isn't willing to support Europe in this quest, there is no point having American Army and Air Force bases here. Send them home. It would have a far more reaching affect on normal Americans.

[mdd2]

If we do step up to the plate in Europe there is going to have to be one hell of a shake up in what Governments spend and where. 5% of GDP (and more) was commonly spent on defence during the cold war. That would mean finding an extra £60 billion/year. You can imagine the uproar if any Government tried to adjust spending to start to move money into defence to get to a 5% spend of GDP for this. But we will have to start moving there and soon if we value our freedom. If Poland can find 5% of its GDP for defence others need to start moving because any peace deal (which looks like appeasing the Dictator Putin) will be short lived unless we show our resolve by boosting Defence spending across Europe.
Hitler's move into Poland was because he didnt believe Britain and France would fight and he would have won without US late entry into the conflict. This time there will not be any late entry by US. There could be a lasting peace but I think the Clarets finishing in the top two this season would be a better, if uncertain, bet.

[Clovius Boofus]

But we will have to start moving there and soon if we value our freedom.

I agree.

Hitler's move into Poland was because he didn't believe Britain and France

Russia were Hitler's ally at the time, and they both carved Poland up. Russia will do the same again if we listen to the Putin apologists and remain weak.

[mikeS]

I caught an interview on Radio 4 news at 1:00 Tuesday and a chap on there - didn't get his name, said that currently there is £200 billion of Russian assets currently frozen in the EU financial orgs gaining interest. He more or less said give Ukraine the money to fund their materiel needs as a first step.

[Colburn_Claret]

I know this question has been asked before, but circumstances change opinions. Do you believe some form of National Service should be reintroduced.
We stopped having an Army several years ago, when it's strength dipped below 100,000. It would be difficult, and expensive to have a standing Army of 150,000 +, but to have people who are trained, that can be called upon at short notice is essential moving forward.
I wouldn't envisage a NS mirroring it's predecessor, and I doubt people would accept compulsory conscription, but an incentive to give 2 years of your youth to help the security of the country would help.

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-tro ... 49021.html
Back to the war !
I wonder if all countries now see the benefit of drones, relatively cheap and they can take out huge artillery pieces as well as soldiers. Will the army become more appealing to gamers as most damage these days seems to be controlled miles away.

[CoolClaret]

If we turn it into an anti US statement then the US media, controlled by Musk, will just use it against us. It won't matter that it's drivel.
It's going to take some fast stepping, but we have to show solidarity with Ukraine, and express our disappointment that the present WH incumbent has forgotten how all this started. Has taken it on himself to treat with Putin, and ignore the Ukrainians wishes.
There's no point calling Trump an egotistical idiot, name calling won't resonate with the American public, we have to show them that the rest of the world doesn't agree with him, and if that means creating a new order of defence, without any American influence, then so be it.
If America isn't willing to support Europe in this quest, there is no point having American Army and Air Force bases here. Send them home. It would have a far more reaching affect on normal Americans.

Doesn't have to be an Anti-Us sentiment, just go about things as though they're not there (ok easier said then done).

I don't think we should go on at Trump like that either - it only makes people double down. He's a raging narcissist, 'gray rock' is by far the best tactic with him, nothing performative, just ignore and respond to any ludicrous demands in a calm manner.

[Stonehouse]

Image all the court cases if conscription was re introduced,Everyman or person and their dogs would be suing the government over their human rights,lawyers would be multi millionaires overnight.

[Falcon]

The conditions that have been mentioned on here and in the media look more like a surrender than a peace deal

[Vegas Claret]

you need to look into the deal between Dmitry Rybolovlev and Trump, pretty clear what is going on

[Clovius Boofus]

We don't need cannon-fodder. We need expensive high-tech equipment and armaments etc, and enthusiastic personnel who sign-up because they want to serve their country, not press-ganged individuals who are apathetic at best, and also waste a hell of a lot of money and resources for very little return.

[CoolClaret]

We don't need cannon-fodder. We need expensive high-tech equipment and armaments etc, and enthusiastic personnel who sign-up because they want to serve their country, not press-ganged individuals who are apathetic at best, and also waste a hell of a lot of money and resources for very little return.

Having air control and a legion of willing drone operators should suffice.

It's quite insane just how much relatively cheap, easy to make drones have changed warfare.

[Big Vinny K]

Well this thread turned into an anti Trump **** show.


When the UK turned Iraq to rubble. Did the rockets avoid civilians? Did the troops we sent do anything different than what the Russians are doing in Ukraine?

Errr…let me think. Oh yep I’ve thought of one tiny difference.
The UK troops didn’t invade Iraq and try and take the country under UK ownership.

If you want to look at true historical comparisons there was a couple of big world skirmishes in the last century which were similar to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

[CoolClaret]

Well this thread turned into an anti Trump **** show.

I’ll never understand why the British public (who voted Labour) have such an issue with other countries bombing and invading each other.

When the UK turned Iraq to rubble. Did the rockets avoid civilians? Did the troops we sent do anything different than what the Russians are doing in Ukraine?

Is this a serious post?

We didn't 'turn Iraq into rubble'. Honestly, why are you so confident in being so wrong?

Iraq we toppled Iraq in 3 weeks, done with precision. The issues came from the power vacuum which was left.

Do you have any idea of what they have done in Syria and Ukraine? It's frightening that you are this ignorant. Their army doctrine is completely different than what ours is and that horrid destructive culture the Russian army has is ingrained with this doctrine - 'dedovshchina' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina

It's downright insulting that you would falsely equate the actions of the UK military in Iraq vs the Russians, not to mention, we will have posters on here that will have been in the army or have friends/family members that no doubt served in Iraq.

Col Tim Collins' eve of battle speech (recreated):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpdeNcH1H8A

This is the calibre of men we had leading the British army in Iraq. Get out of here with your crap.